'65 Dart build thread

This thread could take a while and it has taken a long time just to get to this point for many of the same reasons that affect every enthusiast (work, kids, etc.) I figure that if I post a few pics it'll help keep me motivated.

I was in the market back in 2014 for something fun to build on the cheap with my three boys. I had a pile of Chevy parts in the garage I could have used, but I couldn't find anything that grabbed my attention. I looked at a few Pontiacs as well, but what I found was more project than I needed. Then I thought, "Why not a Dart or Duster, Scamp, etc?", and since I had a Ram 2500 at that time, the decision became a little easier.
What was really going on in my head was worrying about being the best father I could be, and making life seem a little bit more "normal", teaching them and spending time with them that I never got with my dad. We lost my wife at the end of 2012 before I got home from Afghanistan, and my dad was nine weeks before her.
Sometimes having something to occupy your time acts like a magnet to compensate for loss. There was also plenty of construction happening on the house we had just moved into 6 months before Kris passed, but this isn't a construction page, so...here is the beginning of our story.

Mike

Sounds like an awesome project!

Mike, good luck with it! I will attempt to post pics of my 65s both of them. I still have the orange race 65
The orange car was in Mopar Muscle june 2002 issue, titled NORTHLAND FLYER. The rear axle is moved forward six inches for weight transfer, currently have an aluminum block 550 cube motor making 960 hp. The blue one i built to go to shows with my car show buddies. It got a 504 hp 408 stroker. IMHO the best wat to build these early darts is 904(899) auto behind a 360 , a stroked 318 or a magnum 5.9.

My new (1965 Dart 270 hardtop) heads up no prep car is under construction and I'm hoping it will look as good as either one of your guys cars when done
It is currently certed to 7;50 ET and I'm hoping it will run mid to low 4 in the 1/8 at or above 180 MPH when completed, it is less than halfway done now

Thank you

Greg,
I dig both of them. What are you running for rubber under the orange car?

Mike

Cutting for the spring relocation kit I purchased from
Mancini. This happened a while ago.
I boxed in the end of the frame rail and drilled the end of the spring pocket to plug weld it, adding additional shear strength.

Biggest i can get under the car is a 33x15x15 Goodyear 2078 stiff sidewall. Those tires have a section wideth of 17.8, and are within 1/2 inch each side. I recomend doing your best to leave a little extra room as they are a beach to get iff the car. I have to deflate the tires and wrestle with them to clear the outer fender.

[quote=Mike@440Source]Cutting for the spring relocation kit I purchased from
Mancini. This happened a while ago.
I boxed in the end of the frame rail and drilled the end of the spring pocket to plug weld it, adding additional shear strength. [/quote
Mike, i put my rolacation boxes in as high as possible and still the car sat way too high with mopar ss springs. The top holes for the front spring eye were placed as high as possible also. So a test fit would be a good idea. Rear sliders will help, but i wound up using spacers between the springs and axle tube to get my car to factory hieght.

Nice looking little car.

How much tire will fit under the early Darts once mini tubbed?

Hello and welcome here!

I didn't mention the orange car has a full chassis for racing.

I measured at multiple points to get this thing square. It’s not a race car build, so I didn’t want to back-half the car.
That could change, but it’s staying on leafs for now. I purchased two sets of springs over the course of a couple of years
So I’ll see where the ride height ends up. If I don’t like it, it’ll get changed.

Mike

I chose a Moser 9” for the rear since I already had a set of Wilwoods on the shelf.
Shane at Moser Engineering was great to work with. I went with the early Edsel-style
round-back center section so it would “kinda” look like a 8 3/4” at a glance, mostly because
I didn’t want to hear any grief from the Mopurists.
It didn’t cost any extra $ to go with 35 spline axles, so that was an easy choice.
Note: still 1 3/8” Mopar offset.

Mike

I chose Weld Rodlites for the somewhat old-school look, and I thought the oblong holes played off the shape of the tail lights.
295/55-15 Mickeys on 15x10’s, 4.5 backspace IIRC…
I did change the studs in the axles to 3"

Mike

This one has 295/55-15 Mickeys in the back; the axle is 52" flange to flange including the discs. I may be able to cram 315's under it, but it will be tight and didn't want any rubbing.

Mike

I haven't rolled the fender lip yet, but clearance for the tire should be about equal inboard and out.

I struggled for a while with making a decision on the fuel system and, initially, I wanted to keep the stock tank. Safety, clearance issues, and new products on the market since I started the build
made that decision for me.

nice build.

Thank you Bob.

Mike

I snagged the third member off eBay. It has the Daytona pinion support and 3.25" carrier bearings for the 35 spline axles. I used a Moser 1350 yoke, Strange spool, and a set of 4.30's when I set this up a couple of years ago.
This will likely get changed as the new engine will make a trainload of torque. The original build plan included a stroked 318 (390 cubes) which I sold to a friend for his dirt track car.

"trainload of torque" .....i guessing its a big block??

I like these build threads, looks like a solid car

Thank you.
Yes, I'm putting together a solid FT 540. Pump gas, drive it anywhere, no worries about lifter link bars and rollers. GM 4L80E behind it.

Mike

I know there are at least a few current and former Chevy guys in here who are familiar with the ZL1 427 that was available in the '69 Camaro as a Central Office Production Order (COPO).
If Mopar were to build something similar, what do you guys think it would look like?
Indy and Trick Flow heads might look out of place, even if I were to have the ends milled to get rid of the logo. Edelbrocks look closer to the MP head, but they'd have to be ported, adding to the cost.

After a lot of consideration given to what the car was supposed to be in the first place and a few non-negotiables, this is what I'm starting with:

BMP block, 4.500" x 4.250" (540)
Lunati solid FT; 259 / 267 @.050", .586 /.606; 110LC; in @106*
EDM lifters
A set of really cool valve covers
440 Source "Super Stock" aluminum alternator brackets
Hughes stainless valley tray
CNC Stealth heads, opened to MW. >> If I want/need more power later, this is an easy change.
Mod Man w dual 750's (I have the CID to make it work)
More money in polished stainless fasteners than I care to admit. It's not a race car. It's a street car, and I like bling.

Nice collection of parts, Mike. This will be a very cool, overpowered, street car! I like it!

Borrowed photos from FABO; I think I like this.

Mike, what is your plan for a front end, suspension? If i were to ever build another, it probably would be a strut frontend. Maybe a mustang two, but those would be my personal choices. Are you going to leave the motor in the stock position? Any setback will help, but the aluminum block REALLY helps in front/rear weight distribution. With your axle in back staying in stock location, it should still work well on the street. I bought a Dakota lithium 60ah battery, 16.5 lbs. Can be used with a 60 amp alternater. That allowed me to dump the cables to the back and mount it up front. The cables weighed 15 lbs.
I am looking forward to seeing your build progress. It will be great! By the way, i think it will probably run hi nines if it is going to use glass body parts and lightening.

Greg,
I’ve considered a couple of different ways of updating the front suspension:
Option 1: the HDK setup to get rid of the torsion bars.
I really do want to go with rack n pinion steering and delete the steering box as well; that will free up a lot of space without cutting up the car.
Option 2: get out my tubing bender and fab my own K frame using the old one as a reference point, and front-mount a rack using HDK single tube lowers and SN-95 Mustang struts with a MM coilover conversion, / bearings/hubs/Wilwood brakes, and caster/camber plates from Maximum Motorsports (durable, easy to find parts)
Option 3:
Alston a-arm front end (least likely).

Engine will most likely stay in the stock location. I’ll see how it scales.
The only ‘glass I’m planning for is a AAR scoop grafted into my stock hood,
Unless I can sweet-talk VFN into building me a complete hood.

Mike

Currently on FMJ spindles with tubular uppers and Cordoba rotors:

Mike

Test fitting to see where you can run headers is real important on these early A's. I first put a 440 with 906 heads in a stock 65, but had to butcher the shock towers because the head on the passenger side was way too close for headers or manifolds. I relocated the upper shock mount and built fenderwells, and to get tire turn radius i cut into the firewall behind the front tire and made abox for the four tubes. That made a fine foot rest inside the car😁 it doesn't sound like you want to cut the inner fenders, so i bring all this up so you can check now, before investing in something that won't work with the bigblock.

Pfft…hold my glass of Merlot🍷 and pass me that cut-off wheel 😂🎉

In all seriousness, I don’t mind doing surgery on the car to make everything fit; I counted on it with this project. But it has to be done right without going full-tilt race car. I have some ideas and I’m getting antsy to get the block/heads in the car to start measuring.
Thank you for the input. It is appreciated.

A friend of mine did just what you described with the firewall on his early B-body. You can find Kevin’s build on YouTube at Griffits Garage.

Hooker headers use to make a set of chassis headers for BB Mopars in the early (1963 to1966 ) A bodies, that being said that makes me believe that my 1965 Dart 270 heads up drag car will get a set of big tube chassis race headers made for it once I mount the motor and trans in it late this year or next year
It is a race car, no street driving allowed

Mike, looking forward to seeing your solutions!

Making progress here and there when I can. Winter can end any day now
and I’d be ok with that…

Nope...lol not a racer car. I have a few of those too.

I also have a set of those bitchin blue anodized DC valve covers. My contention with placing them into service is the lack of a baffle. I had considered many different methods of attaching a baffle and more or less settled on JB Weld.

I am curious what your thoughts are there.

Also, will you being running this thing on a dyno? It will be interesting to see where it peaks hp/tq wise. With that tiny cam I assume it will peak well below 5500rpm @540" ?

I am betting on peak torque around 4800, hp about 6400. It will sound knarly, but pull like a frieght train!

I would hope it doesn't pull like a freight train, I would want it to pull like a big powerful locomotive with no load attached, spinning the wheels at full throttle and making lots of sparks while hauling butt out of the station WOO WOO

That's going to be a fun little car!

Awesome car, who makes a reasonably priced mopar to 4l80e bellhousing?

I am planning on a dyno session, but it will be a while before this thing is put together. Meanwhile, I'll attempt to make some progress on the car itself.
The cam is listed on Lunati's website with a power range of 3000-7200 based on a 440. I think Greg is pretty close on the performance in the bigger engine. Something that is fun from 2500-6500ish is what I'm after.
This profile was picked because I didn't want to run more than .600" lift, and I felt the duration was about where it needed to be for how it would be used 90% of the time. That the lobe design was spec'd by UDHarold is a bonus.

https://www.lunatipower.com/voodoo-solid-flat-tappet-cam-chrysler-361-440-288-296.html

Mike

Thank you. I think ATI has an adapter for the bellhousing, but all I need is the adapter/spacer for the crank and the correct flexplate. My BMP block has a dual bellhousing pattern (GM/Chrysler) so the
4L80E will bolt right up. All I have to do is get lucky and find one at Pick n Pull or Craigslist.

Mike

Mopar wedge heads like to flow more CFMs the wider and higher the valve is open, lift is your friend
Maybe think about changing that cam for one that has more lift and duration at .100,.200 as well as more lift at max lift than this one has

I will bet you a dollar it peaks below 6000. Why are we staying under .600 lift? Not bashing just curious : D

Will you be using the PRW PqX roller rockers?

One thing is for sure. You won't need a loose converter for that 540. Something very similar to a stock hemi/383/340 torque converter, but built to take the torque, will flash well over 3000 and drive like a stocker, making it a very fun, responsive hotrod!
I used a stock hemi converter(while it lasted!) behind a 535 with ported 906 heads back in 1981. If i recall correctly, it stalled about 3400 or more.

RE: PRW PqX roller rockers
Did you mean the stainless steel version or the billet aluminum?
I'm leaning toward stainless steel. either Comp 1621's or the PRW's; I did have the opportunity to
check out the PRW's closely (nitpicking), a couple of days ago and I don't see anything wrong with the way the rockers are machined for the screws,
compared to previous feedback on other forums. If there was a quality control issue previously, it must have been fixed.
Roller tips weren't sloppy loose, bushings looked good, etc. I'd use the Stanke Motorsports shafts with the banana grooves for better oiling,
but that's a personal preference. I haven't seen a failure; only what I've read.

Mike

Thank you

More goodies, fuel system parts this time. 1/2" aluminum fuel line, the rest of my compression fittings, and a billet fuel filter.
The Holley returnless fuel module will be the next thing I order and I'll fit it to the fuel cell. Also need to level out the trunk floor,
maybe eliminate the spare tire well in the process.

Awesome progress! I'm building a a similar big block '66, so I'll be watching this closely. Question - what made you go with 1/2" aluminum fuel line over say, -10 ptfe?

I just prefer to run hard line wherever I can. Hose will eventually deteriorate, so I don't want to run that for the whole length of the car, unless it's a race-only deal. I’m using billet clamps to attach it to the sub rails.

Mike

what micron rating is your filter ?
does it really have the surface area to filter well ? should it be bigger ?
not meaning to be picking, just wondering out loud. please don't take offense.

Good morning Bob,

No offense taken
10 microns on this one. It will flow fine for a carb'd application; I'll go bigger on the size if I decide to convert to EFI later.

Mike

Make sure that filter is between the pump and the carb, not between the gas tank and the pump

from the tank, isn't it 100 micron size ?
also, what size is the factory sock in the tank on the pickup meant to filter ?
i'm not sure i have ever heard the micron size that filter was.

I like the steel rockers with bushings. You will be okay with the PRWs with the flat tappet spring pressures. I think they are rated to 600psi? If you were to go roller or hydraulic roller in the future perhaps the Comps would be better for 550psi+ valve springs. I like the coating comp uses on thier rocker shafts also.

My only complaint on both rocker systems is the lack of threaded rocker shafts. Using a NPT plug in the end of the rocker shaft is a really nice feature.

We used lash caps to correct the geometry on my Stealth heads and Comp steel rockers because cam is a .660ish solid (street) roller. It is about 230/560psi closed/open.

I like the steel rockers in general because they fit under the old school valve covers.

Thank you 👍
Pump will be in the fuel cell.

Mike

Jeremiah, have you seen these? I got to check out these shafts last year at Indy. The plugs are o-ringed and held in by the end bolts.
https://stankemotorsports.com/Products.cfm?pn=440RS&pID=55

Contact Rocker Arm Speciality 530-242-1306 and see if they still offer those.
They have been sold several times and may not be in business anymore and or changed their name,
They were in northern California near Redding the last time I dealt with them

Now called Rocker Arms Unlimited
(530) 242-1316
rockerarms.com


Mike

I got a set of Kirkeys for the car, now I need to get the old carpet out and start fabbing brackets. I haven’t bought the foam yet, and not sure on their covers. I like gray, but tweed is hot in the summer. Probably will end up with something custom to match the steering wheel.

I’ll have a good upholstery shop cover this for me.

Man I wish I knew you were going to run that wheel..Would have made you a sweet deal on the ones I have here.