Block sleeves

What is the normal thickness of a sleeve? Let’s say for the 440 standard bore. Can one order any outside diameter?

Call Darton and see
I like and try to make sure all the blocks I have sleeves install in are Darton brand Ductile Iron sleeves not your standard over the counter cheap rebuilder sleeves
Make sure your machine shop knows how to properly install them also

1/16" wall

Wow, that is thin

I thing you dropped a decimal number poly.
I don't believe i have ever checked a factory block that was only 0.0625 thick. 3/16 I would buy or even 1/8

3/32 is the most common size.

Smaller than 1/16" invites distortion when installing.
Thicker than 1/16" invites transecting the water jacket. Only use a bigger size if you know it's been done before.

Look up the available sleeves 3/32 is the standard. they also come in 1/8 comonly.
1/16 is rare/special. Not many offer in that size.

Mike, on my 383, I had to have 2 sleeves installed. They were dartons and were spec'd for a chevy. .145" wall thickness, after boring/honing they were .095" wall.

the melling sleeve for a 440 is p/n CSL121. it is 3/32 and an outside Dia. of 4.510

There is a 1/8 version but no 1/16.

Also, melling makes thousands of standard sleeves, so yes you can pick a different one for a different application, if desired.

This^^^^. Get the thickest sleeve you can with the closest nominal bore size you can find.

On typical small and big block V8 engines, I never installed anything thinner than an 1/8" sleeve.

Well good answers but I didn’t want the cat out of the bag at first. My bore is 4.53, pistons are $1900 new, I have a set of 4.31 on shelf so I figured sleeve it down to that size, not even boring the block just get the nominal outside size, drive em in with green loctite then bore-hone to fit pistons.

If you want to distort the bores drive them in, if not wanting to drive them in chill them in the freezer several days or pack them in dry ice and then drop them in.
Make sure the O.D. of the new sleeves is less than .0030 of the bore sizes, check all 8 bi=ores before ordering the sleeves. Most of the better auto machine shops I've used out here leave a small step at the bottom of the bores when prepping the blocks for sleeves

I wouldn't rely on sleeves fitting an existing bore to many variances. They need to have a step to sit on also, unless you use a top flanged sleeve which still requires machining.

Also on the freezing. I don't do it. I tried it once and with the frost that accumulates on the sleeve I didn't want water in there with the loctite. .001 to .0015 and send it home.

https://www.melling.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Melling-2018-Cylinder-Sleeve-Catalog.pdf

I've used the 3/32 sleeves many times and always chill them in the freezer, they're not always round so you have to take an average.

Yes to leaving a step at the bottom of the bore so the sleeve can't drop.
I'd throw the block in the hot tank for about 20 minutes and put the sleeve in the freezer for several hours. Take the block out and as soon as it was dry, drive the sleeve in w/ green loctite/sleevetite. I was concerned about the moisture from it being cold w/ the loctite, but never had an issue. Repaired one really bad 454 chevy block out of a tow truck once that had a huge piece of cylinder wall missing. Concerned enough that I told the owner I'd try it, but if it failed it was his, lol. It ran for several years that I know of after I fixed it.

W/r/t "Get the thickest sleeve you can"

Because you know exactly how thick the walls are in each direction of all 8 cylinders.
Where can I look this up?

I guess I need to type out WITHIN REASON. It’s called using your head.

Every sleeve EVER is under nominal by at least .030 so IF you chose a nominally sized sleeve that is thin and you bore most of it out to get to size what did you gain?

Have you ever set a sleeve? Just one? If so, you’d understand this.

Is it possible to sleeve back to 4.310 from 4.53 ?
From the list above, could csl2259 work ? OD 4.5655 1/8. 6 3/4
What if you bored block to 4.564 and left a half inch
at the bottom 4.53. Then machine the outside half inch bottom of sleeve
to 4.531 You’d have a .017 step, 1/2 inch from the bottom of the cylinder on the back side of sleeve.
Install and Finish bore to 4.31
Is the tiny step enough ?

Could use these. Turn them to 4.528 drive them in

Think you mean 4.532. What bore are they ?

Not sure what you mean by ‘they’ but those sleeves are out a older fuel block are 4.70 top and 4.63 at bottom, 4.31 inside. My block bore is 4.530 so if turn them to 4.529, heat the block, chill the sleeve they should drop in. I’ll cut the lip down then make a cutter to cut top of block to accept that lip so it will not move (which I doubt). I think those sleeves are some good material to support a fuel engine. KB sleeves if I remember right. I had vagly thought of using them but after reading the posts they might be the best option plus they where free.

The sleeve's OD needs to be larger than the bore diameter so there's a press fit. I'd still bore the block out slightly to get the step at the bottom for the sleeve to sit on.

Lol
They, those, them
Kinda like the 3 who’s
Who knows, who cares and who gives a [censored]

I’m sure you know you really should start with a fresh bore but
If you turn them to fit the 4.53 “they” will still be .110 wall

You need a step or a flange in my opinion, and you need to be .001 to .0015 over the bore dia. You maynot need a step or flange at .003 or better.

What kind of block are we talking here?

Probably an old mega block,
at 4.53 I’d be looking for the cheapest way out also
instead of spending $1900 on pistons

Ditto

Ok, those sleeves pictured look like they are for an aluminum block. Those are usually made of different material than cast iron sleeves (much harder to machine) But if your going to just mic the bores and machine them, you need a flange left on the top of the bores, which means you need to machine the top of the bore to accept it.

Also after getting more of the picture, With sound bores and flanged sleeves you could be at .0005 to .001 for this.

What is the condition of the bores? Finished honed and straight?

Yes good finish and straight, my concern when looking for pistons from the big engine builders, they said they never go over standard (4.5) because when bored there’s not enough material left between the cylinders = blown head gasket. I guess they made throw away blocks. Then the other can of worms is if all 8 holes are sleeved how weak-thin will cylinders be then (Siamese block) I feel like I’m in no mans land. I have everything there for this engine waiting now in limbo. One other thought, can standard pistons be coated .030?

.003 would be pushing it for a coating let alone .030.

4.53 should not present a head gasket problem.

I would think one of the major piston companies could do a 4.53 for way less than 1900$

Diamond made me a set of 4.510" hemi pistons and they were over $1700 two years ago.

maybe try a different brand.

I agree, I was just saying I don't think he's too far off w/ his $1900 estimate.
I'd still rather run the block at 4.530" bore than put 8 sleeves in it.

Just for kicks I went to JE site and looked BB Chevy pistons, !! 4.53 1.52 ch .990 pin $91.00 ?!! Now that flat top only give me 8-1 compression.. but.. I would do in a street engine on pump gas. $730 instead of the $1900 quoted. lol

IC956.030 not even 900 bucks and a shelf piston.

Ok, got a link or what company?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-ic956-030

Number I looked up are flat tops, I need Hemi head

You could get the crank and pistons for less than 1900 and have a 580"

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-ic936-020

.020 is largest listed shelf size. You'd have to call about the extra .010. I wouldn't think that will be an extra 1000$

Agree, the blank starts out large, turned down to size one needs. Never thought it would be this much problem. Thanks you been a great help.

Yeah, tell them you should get a discount less machining...lol

let me know what they say if you call them.

Call Line2Line on coatings - max thickness, etc.

Their website says thicknesses up to .020”.

Just checking one of the ten sleeves from an aluminum block. It mice out at 4.528 and slides in till the top 1.25 step. With the loctite will that be too loose? The rest are bigger on the outside but 4.28 bore. btw these are some strong steel not cast.

In my opinion yes, you need some interference to transfer the heat. but your on the right track. You need the step to secure it.

I should have said if it slides in its not enough.

If the bore is 4.530...dead nuts. you need at least 4.5305. Nothing is perfectly round to the tenths.

Fixed bore number......

A friend has a boring bar and the good sunen hone. I could then bore it with the step 1” from bottom. Then turn sleeves to .005 over that. Got a plan

Yes, EXCEPT Ikeep fudging up the numbers You should be 5 tenths over, not hundredths. I should have typed 4.5305. I have habit of not proof reading..until I read your response at.005.

I would be putting the step at the top not at the bottom if you are staying close or at your 4.53 step at the bottom, bore needs to be 4.63 our more to leave a substantial enough step.

There’s a set of 4.60 (another .035 off each wall) (time to sonic those walls I guess) pistons on flea bay cheap but I’m afraid to bore that big, sealing on deck between cylinders and wall thickness. Maybe o-ring with copper gasket would hold.