The Million Rules

Slew rate, photo cell readers and MSD 7531 are specifically prohibited. The Million

Photocell readers? Would those be for the tree or track position?

I don’t know. The people who know, must know. SFG isn’t some group of rubes.

there are several out there using photo cell detectors to read the tree and trigger the delay box - combined with a programable run that controls the car acceleration - meaning make a run - record the data - program the box with the data and repeat the run...

Not new technology - just a twist on an old system - big money racing brings the cheaters out - and as Junior Johnson said - it isn't cheating - its a competitive advantage -until you get caught !!

Several out there?!?! Like who?

Someone shoot me a PM when they:

A. Actually know what to look for....
B. Actually look for said devices on a car....
C. Actually find said devices on a car....

This. 7531 and slew rate info is easy. Tree intercept: Not so much. That being said, the statement IS in the flyer.

Is this the same type of system that some Ohio racers got caught with years ago? Wasn't it called something like Matty Box? Some racers were banned for life?

With all the photocells we use at work, I'm sure I could make a tree reader that would work. Sometimes. The hard part would be filtering out all the background light and keeping it aimed at the tree. Then hiding it.

Fortunately I aren't that smart. Don't have a box anyway.

I've had lots of people tell me they knew how or knew someone who had done it. I told them to build one, put it in my car, and we'd split all the millions we'd win. No takers yet.

In all seriousness, I'm sure there are people who have tried.

Now that I think of it, we use little cameras that look for colors........

My local track has the equipment to plug into your system to check for slew rate boxes or at least I was told this by the manager. That I know of it’s never been used.

With all the EFI systems out there today they would need someone well versed in the different software to be able to look around. My EFI box is a homebuilt deal based off of 10+ year old hardware and it has slew rate functions for "perfect run" traction control or whatever nefarious reason you would want to use it for.

It's all unverified stories at this point but one story going around is they were using a video camera from the sidelines aimed at the tree. The camera was linked to the box in the car wirelessly.

:grin

As Gy3 said there is no rule about bluetooth or wifi connections to the box. If your track has a box to plug in it is for the 7530 box to detect traction control nothing more. Most NHRA type tech inspectors assume a grid with a Can Bus has an ARC module which in not true. For the most part the list given is not anything new but is NEVER enforced. They rarely do any tech at all at these events. Be nice to see someone at least doing basic tech. Hell even NHRA does not tech cars these days. Then as stated there is the whole EFI and its control boxes which for the most part can all do traction control or slew rates. Then there is the whole electric car deal and what they can do that no one would be able to detect. face it if folks want to cheat they will. Looking at results from some of these races and racers sure makes a guy wonder. When someone can string a series of .000 lights in a day and be dead on every run it makes a guy think.

The matte box was a rather crude analog deal that the driver controlled the car with - that was legal at first - then when discovered what it could do it was made illegal - how it all unraveled was statistical analysis of time slips - the new timing system at Norwalk gave excellent data to show what was happening down track - the result the dirty dozen were bounced once it was learned from one of them who had the boxes and used them in competition - so in essence they ratted on themselves

and I agree with al the EFI stuff and the recent Kinsler drive by wire throttle body - its really hard to find these systems - one of the current systems was actually rumored to have been created by a well known delay box maker and used in one of their own cars

I know lots of guys went back to a MSD 6A box because of what could be done to them.

And what pray tell might that be?

So you basically know a bunch of guys cheating and are ok with it?

I have run 6A boxes for 30 years because they just flat work, but I'll quit the day I think about cheating with one.

Hold on now I don’t personally know guys that have done it but I’ve heard of lots of guys that did it.

I've had guys tell me if you put a low high side chip in and hit it before the finish line you'll always run dead-on. I asked for an explanation and never received one.

The old MSD 6A is nothing more than an analog device - not much you can do with them other than to change out a few components to increase its out put for more spark - I used to modify them myself - you could get about the same output as a7A . The 6A does not even have a rpm limit chip - that is a 6AL - The reason to use an old 6A is because you can gut it and use the box to hide another system - lots of room in there and when someone looks at - it looks like any other old 6A and nobody gets suspicious

The Newer 6A is digital box and does not have much room and has some really cheap components in them

Locally there are a group of guys suspected of cheating - they win often - one thing is common is their technique - they all stage their car on the first bulb with the door open then close the door and roll into the second bulb - Also one driver drove three different cars one night in a TNT and changed driving jacket for each car - meaning the jacket went with the car

When you have the big money on the line - somebody is going to cheat or enhance their abilities to win - like I said it isn't cheating - unless you get caught - and nobody has as of yet

I don't know who or how, but will all the big $$$ races anymore I can almost guarantee you some body is cheating one way or another. Just too much technology out there. Some guys are just flat good and when you race several times a week almost every week of the year I'd hope you'd be a good racer as well. I sometimes wonder about certain drives, especially the ones that don't seem to have a "human" moment and miss the tree or ever go red. The whole switching cars and jacket thing is a little strange. I know a handful of years back a certain good racer broke the rear end in their car. They took a rear from another car at the same event and put in their car to compete the following day. Just thought it was odd to take running car and tear it apart to fix the other car for that one race.

There was a silver chevy II with tinted windows that generated some chatter at the ace race at 42 a few years ago. The car was allegedly .00X like every hit until the wind picked up and blew the tree around a little, then the car suddenly went like -.250. I dont recall any confirmations being made but I think it even made 00sh!tshow at the time.

I'd be surprised if a few guys arent cheating at the big dollar races but there are some amazingly talented drivers that likely kick the cheaters in the head.

Back when I didnt suck - my car got 'checked' fairly regularly. I always considered it an honor. My 6AL box and direct wire button isnt hiding anything. I wish I was good enough to get 'checked' again...lolz.

The dirty dozen was banned from IHRA back around 2000 for the 'matty' boxes. At the time they were invented they really weren't illegal and some of the guys were using them as onboard timers as the track timers weren't as good back then (90's). It was basically an old version of a dragy only more accurate because they used wheel speed sensors and a mercury switch. Many of them still race and will tell you the story candidly. Mike Matty Jr. won a huge race a Kil-Kare last year and several others as I recall. They are a hoot to chat with.

That car was checked and declared legal at the race. Multiple cars were supposedly checked, but the Nova was the only one that got any attention. Some panic with the Nova going late in the rounds and doing better than the "house" cars...

I would like to see a matty box up close...there's gotta be one sitting on a shelf somewhere. It would be neat to document it's use on a car considering the lore around it. Not to mention MSD makes legal boxes today that are far more effective.

I couldn't care less if there is cheating at these big big $$$ races cause I'm smart enough to stay away from them. $1500+ buy ins, $100s for buy backs...those races aren't designed for the hobbyist, it's designed for the guy using drag racing as a tax write off for his business.

Throttle stops and traction control were made legal in UK bracket classes about 7 years ago, I'm guessing they couldn't police it effectively. There was one or two ruffled feathers regarding throttle stops in the ET classes but I was more concerned about traction control, I don't think anyone has took "advantage" of the rules in the bracket class we normally race in.........as far as I know anyway.....

A Matty box in and of itself was just a data recorder that had a real time display. Used properly they are still legal today, you just can't have the data showing to the driver in competition. As to the lore of what they could and couldn't do.......

There is definitely stuff out there and I would think most tracks would have a hard time policing a lot of it.

NHRA Tech Director Lonnie Grim tells a story of a race organizer that hired him to come look at a car that "ran the number" every time.

Lonnie looked the car over, had some things disconnected and he never ran the number again.

There are folks out there hat can police this stuff, just not too many of them.

I was down at Vegas SFM a few years back, , when something was suspected from a few cars. I heard track officials, not really officials, came around with a phoney box detector that would beep and sound off from the suspected cars. Funny thing, they were gone the next day. some of them were well, known big time racers. That was the same year that I noticed guys burping the car close to the finish line, in time trials. No doubt there is technology out there, I have a nephew that does programing on Black Hawk. Helicopters for the military. Really scary what they can do. Jim