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Pretty sure my converter died

Posted By: Hot 340

Pretty sure my converter died - 05/09/22 09:48 PM

No movement in any gear. Linkage ok. Just stopped moving when I went to turn around. No bang. No noises. Fluid moves on the stick when comparing in neutral to checking with engine shut off, so it's prob not the pump. Fluid nice and pink. Converter is an old 10" tci super street fighter that's been behind 5 or 6 of my motors. 5300 flash behind this engine...Alot hate on tci, but I loved it. My question is, Can a converter company rebuild this core?
Posted By: rickraw

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/09/22 10:58 PM

They would have to open it up first. Check line pressure. Check the stator splines too.
Posted By: dvw

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/09/22 11:10 PM

I doubt it's the converter. My bet is it broke the input shaft clutch hub.
Doug
Posted By: Hot 340

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/09/22 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by rickraw
They would have to open it up first. Check line pressure. Check the stator splines too.
ok..thanks Rick
Posted By: Hot 340

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/09/22 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by dvw
I doubt it's the converter. My bet is it broke the input shaft clutch hub.
Doug
Doug, is that common? I didn't think I needed a billet one at 600ish level
Posted By: dvw

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/10/22 01:36 AM

Originally Posted by Hot 340
Originally Posted by dvw
I doubt it's the converter. My bet is it broke the input shaft clutch hub.
Doug
Doug, is that common? I didn't think I needed a billet one at 600ish level

I've never broke one. We run the stock one to 800-900hp. But for a converter to flat fail is unusual. The fluid changes level so it should have pump pressure. If it stripped the front planet it would still have reverse. Suppose it could've broke an output shaft. But that's even rarer. So with no gears I surmise the input hub.
Doug
Posted By: LA360

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/10/22 01:38 AM

If it's broken anything in the transmission, I'd have the convertor gone through regardless.
Posted By: GomangoCuda

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/10/22 01:38 AM

10" tci super street fighter that flashes to 5300? Did you mean 3500?
Posted By: A727Tflite

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/10/22 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by Hot 340
No movement in any gear. Linkage ok. Just stopped moving when I went to turn around. No bang. No noises. Fluid moves on the stick when comparing in neutral to checking with engine shut off, so it's prob not the pump. Fluid nice and pink. Converter is an old 10" tci super street fighter that's been behind 5 or 6 of my motors. 5300 flash behind this engine...Alot hate on tci, but I loved it. My question is, Can a converter company rebuild this core?


What kind of power you making ?

To get that kind of stall with a 10” it must be a bunch.
Posted By: GomangoCuda

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/10/22 03:47 AM

He said 600ish. Tci says that converter is about 3500. I suspect he just transposed the 3 and the 5.
Posted By: Hot 340

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/10/22 04:16 AM

Originally Posted by GomangoCuda
10" tci super street fighter that flashes to 5300? Did you mean 3500?
It's a *super* street fighter. It would flash to 44~4500 behind the mild smallblocks I had. This new one has more torque hence the higher flash.
Posted By: Hot 340

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/10/22 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by Transman
Originally Posted by Hot 340
No movement in any gear. Linkage ok. Just stopped moving when I went to turn around. No bang. No noises. Fluid moves on the stick when comparing in neutral to checking with engine shut off, so it's prob not the pump. Fluid nice and pink. Converter is an old 10" tci super street fighter that's been behind 5 or 6 of my motors. 5300 flash behind this engine...Alot hate on tci, but I loved it. My question is, Can a converter company rebuild this core?


What kind of power you making ?

To get that kind of stall with a 10” it must be a bunch.
Pump gas, .600 flat tappet stuff. Bro has the same converter and does the same thing. They are loose for 10"s I agree
Posted By: DusterKid

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/10/22 11:02 AM

Doubt it's a convertor. I've broken a few convertors thru the years and they all would move, some would need to rev alot, but all would move. I did shear the 2 ears on the pump off one time. That particular transmission was used for 20 or so years in my dad's race car so I'm sure that didn't help matters.
Posted By: 440lebaron

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/10/22 12:42 PM

most likely sheared oil pump ears, jack car up in rear as high as you can, converter will fill and wheels will start turning running in gear
Posted By: 340Cuda

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/10/22 03:18 PM

This happened to me once and it was the converter.

It was a while ago and I don't remember what the issue was.

I do remember I had had it on the shelf long enough that the warranty had expired.

However since I had only run it a few times Turbo Action fixed it at no cost.
Posted By: dvw

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/10/22 04:42 PM

The fluid level shouldn't change if the pump is broken.
Doug
Posted By: JD Dart

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/10/22 04:57 PM

Check line pressure fast and easy to do. Moves fluid yea, but what is the pressure?
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/10/22 05:26 PM

I had the same thing happen years ago, the teeth on the front pump sheared off while driving, as soon as I stop it wouldn't move, baffling whiney
As already suggested , check the pressure idling in gear wrenchscope twocents
Posted By: Hot 340

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/10/22 09:19 PM

As Doug pointed out, shouldn't be the pump ears cause it's moving fluid. .... let me get a high-pressure gauge hooked up to the line port and test it. I let you guys know what I find after it comes in and I plumb it up
Posted By: Hot 340

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/12/22 11:10 PM

Hold on. Plumbed the wrong port
Posted By: Hot 340

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/12/22 11:54 PM

Ok got it plumbed to the proper port this time. Same result. No line pressure at all in any gear. Fluid moves on the stick tho. shruggy
Posted By: '72CudaRacer

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/13/22 01:19 AM

It's been many years ago, but I broke a converter just like what you describe. It was a GER piece, (but we won't get into that) in my race car. Running fine all night, but in the semi's, when I pulled it into high gear, nothing. Rev limiter caught the engine, but I had all neutrals. No forward, no reverse. I got it home that night about 10 pm, pulled the trans out, set the converter aside and splattered the transmission all over the work bench (I was supose to race the next day 100 miles away)., Couldn't find anything wrong with the trans and FINALLY decided to look at the converter. When I looked into the input hole, I could see the splined part was sheared in two. Put the trans back together, stuck my spare converter in and everything worked fine. Except no sleep that night, but I was still young then.

Brian
Posted By: A727Tflite

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/13/22 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by Hot 340
Ok got it plumbed to the proper port this time. Same result. No line pressure at all in any gear. Fluid moves on the stick tho. shruggy


What port are you using. Some valve bodies don’t send psi to the center line pressure port on the passenger side.

To be sure you don’t have any psi use the rear servo with a 300 gauge. Check in manual low and reverse.
Or simply pull the front cooler line and place in a pan and start it in neutral.

You say fluid moves. Down the stick after starting or ?
Posted By: Hot 340

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/13/22 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by Transman
Originally Posted by Hot 340
Ok got it plumbed to the proper port this time. Same result. No line pressure at all in any gear. Fluid moves on the stick tho. shruggy


What port are you using. Some valve bodies don’t send psi to the center line pressure port on the passenger side.

To be sure you don’t have any psi use the rear servo with a 300 gauge. Check in manual low and reverse.
Or simply pull the front cooler line and place in a pan and start it in neutral.

You say fluid moves. Down the stick after starting or ?
I checked the middle port. And the front by accident. No pressure in either. I doubt I can get to the back, got big headers. I think I need to yank it anyway. And yes the fluid moves when it's started and shut off
Posted By: Hot 340

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/30/22 08:29 PM

Pump gear tangs broke off. What pump gear you guys recommend?
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/30/22 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Hot 340
Pump gear tangs broke off. What pump gear you guys recommend?
New good pump kit, not the cheap ones tsk
Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/30/22 08:44 PM

http://www.tcsproducts.com/products/product/tf727-max-lug-pump-gear-set/

I went this route after I got a box full of neutrals after my burnout….

They also have a stock style one for way cheaper
Posted By: Hot 340

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/30/22 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Originally Posted by Hot 340
Pump gear tangs broke off. What pump gear you guys recommend?
New good pump kit, not the cheap ones tsk
agree Cab, too hard yanking this trans. Nightmare

Attached picture 20220530_161924.jpg
Posted By: Hot 340

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/30/22 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by J_BODY
http://www.tcsproducts.com/products/product/tf727-max-lug-pump-gear-set/

I went this route after I got a box full of neutrals after my burnout….

They also have a stock style one for way cheaper
🤣 box of neutrals🤣🤣 thanks Jay, I'll get that gear setup
Posted By: Hot 340

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/30/22 09:10 PM

I'm guessing the converter will need flushed....how you guys doing that?
Posted By: rickraw

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/30/22 09:51 PM

Have to find someone with a machine. If it has a drain plug u could dump some parts fluid in it then blow out with compressed air. How much damage in the pump?
Posted By: Hot 340

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/30/22 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by rickraw
Have to find someone with a machine. If it has a drain plug u could dump some parts fluid in it then blow out with compressed air. How much damage in the pump?
not sure how bad it is. I'll gotta get into the pump yet.
Posted By: A727Tflite

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/30/22 10:10 PM


Originally Posted by Hot 340
I'm guessing the converter will need flushed....how you guys doing that?


If both lugs are in the pump with no missing pieces and no damage to the pump pocket or reaction shaft support then no need to flush.
Posted By: Hot 340

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/30/22 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by Transman

Originally Posted by Hot 340
I'm guessing the converter will need flushed....how you guys doing that?


If both lugs are in the pump with no missing pieces and no damage to the pump pocket or reaction shaft support then no need to flush.


both pieces are there. But they tore up pretty bad. The babbitt bushing even feels rough. So I think it's gonna need gone through

Attached picture 20220530_191254.jpg
Posted By: Hot 340

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/30/22 11:21 PM

One lugs is so rounded it almost looks like a ball bearing. I don't think it is tho

Attached picture 20220530_191920.jpg
Posted By: A727Tflite

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/31/22 12:46 AM


Originally Posted by Hot 340
One lugs is so rounded it almost looks like a ball bearing. I don't think it is tho


You need to pull the valve body first and see how things are in there. And remove the return cooler line (at the back of the main case) and blow the fluid in to a clear plastic bottle and see how much if any debris comes out.

Check the TC regulator valve in the valve body too for debris or stickyness.
Posted By: Hot 340

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/31/22 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by Transman

Originally Posted by Hot 340
One lugs is so rounded it almost looks like a ball bearing. I don't think it is tho


You need to pull the valve body first and see how things are in there. And remove the return cooler line (at the back of the main case) and blow the fluid in to a clear plastic bottle and see how much if any debris comes out.

Check the TC regulator valve in the valve body too for debris or stickyness.
I'll check that...you think the clutches need to come out?
Posted By: Twostick

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/31/22 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by Hot 340
Originally Posted by J_BODY
http://www.tcsproducts.com/products/product/tf727-max-lug-pump-gear-set/

I went this route after I got a box full of neutrals after my burnout….

They also have a stock style one for way cheaper
🤣 box of neutrals🤣🤣 thanks Jay, I'll get that gear setup


I'm going to write that one down... haha

Kevin
Posted By: A727Tflite

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/31/22 03:22 AM

Originally Posted by Hot 340
Originally Posted by Transman

Originally Posted by Hot 340
One lugs is so rounded it almost looks like a ball bearing. I don't think it is tho


You need to pull the valve body first and see how things are in there. And remove the return cooler line (at the back of the main case) and blow the fluid in to a clear plastic bottle and see how much if any debris comes out.

Check the TC regulator valve in the valve body too for debris or stickyness.
I'll check that...you think the clutches need to come out?


Once the pump failed you lost line pressure. The clutchs should be fine, it’s not like they we’re slipping because of “low” line pressure.
You had none. But since you have it down I would look at the geartrain, look the thrust washers over real good since you may have pumped very small debris through the system.
Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/31/22 03:38 AM

I freshened the pump and let er eat! Measure the new gear, they’re not all created equal.
Posted By: racerx

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/31/22 11:03 AM

Cope did a 3 part series on a race 47re with a set of his race pump gears.
https://www.coperacingtrans.com/?product=727-thick-lug-pump-gear-set
Posted By: dvw

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/31/22 12:06 PM

In all my years doing 727's I've only ever seen one set of pump gears break. Not sure of the cause. But it's not very common in my eyes.
Doug
Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/31/22 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by dvw
In all my years doing 727's I've only ever seen one set of pump gears break. Not sure of the cause. But it's not very common in my eyes.
Doug


Not common at all….. other than lucky me and the original poster I can’t even recall ever reading another thread here on the subject. BUT….. it must happen after all they make a “better” piece.
Posted By: A727Tflite

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/31/22 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by dvw
In all my years doing 727's I've only ever seen one set of pump gears break. Not sure of the cause. But it's not very common in my eyes.
Doug


Over 50 years for me, same findings. One thing that changed was the cut in the converter impeller hub, that helped prevent edge loading on the rotor lugs.
Posted By: Leigh

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/31/22 02:08 PM

I was told those TCS pump gears were discontinued.?
Posted By: rickraw

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/31/22 09:12 PM

A&A has them, 4340 steel inner and stock outer. Pricey, 250
Posted By: Hot 340

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/31/22 09:27 PM

Thanks guys. I have a set on the way.👍 hated to buy them because it sounds like a fluke thing. But I really hate working on small engine cavities with big headers, so I'm not playing roulette🤣
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/31/22 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by rickraw
A&A has them, 4340 steel inner and stock outer. Pricey, 250



At my age if it saved me from pulling my transmission it would be well worth it. Lol.
Posted By: Hot 340

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/31/22 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
Originally Posted by rickraw
A&A has them, 4340 steel inner and stock outer. Pricey, 250



At my age if it saved me from pulling my transmission it would be well worth it. Lol.
Truth John, truth
Posted By: rickraw

Re: Pretty sure my converter died - 05/31/22 09:43 PM

Parts are crazy now but, you want to play you have to pay.
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