Header thread

Let's see your headers! How'd they snake thru all the obstacles? What can be done within stock frame rails? These are 2 1/8 to 3.5 on current combo about 33" long. I'm using a tube/rack front end from an undisclosed manufacturer.

These are on Dartin's hoopty. 2" x 3.5" built for a target 700HP still using them at about 850HP.

I remade tube #4 without the clearance ripples. But i pretty much used every ounce of space i could near the port exits. I mainly posted this for Tony, I'd like to see what he's working with on his Scamp. From what i remember they were quite long. But that was what I saw when the car had -1 heads. It's difficult to get A SERIES of big tubes with good trajectory under the floor. Here's another pic I stored I think Al made for his B1 valiant.

Other ideas I saved before I built any sets. The red/pink one is Steff's B1 Challenger. Mango green was DemonGups (which seemed to run ok)...

Not the best pic but this was the hard side, 2 1/4 into a 4" merge. E Body. Around 900hp on a good day, though we have made a few changes since this was taken (TR) but the same headers.
Edit: Found a couple more.

Here are a couple of a 64 you may have seen. We will likely be replacing these as well when engine gets freshenedand a number f changes made there too, but they fit very well. Carb on it was axed to.






Also some more Valiant stuff all under chassis stuff as I had intended to reinstall the inner fenders but never did.Someone on here ended up with those tubes..Dont recall whom. All I have for stocktype stuff that did not get axed with photobucket. Unless you wanna see the ones on the Camaro

Here are the headers I made for my Road Runner. 2.125-2.250, into a 4” collector. Did not want to cut anything on the car to make them fit.

Amazingly nice!

Where could one get a pair of flanges for Stage V hemi heads? I would like to make my own as well.

Thanks

SPD Exhaust has nice cnc machined flanges. Stainless Headers in Minnesota makes nice water jet (or laser cut) flanges.

Yes, we’ve been using the ones you built for a lot of years. Can remove or install either side easily in a quick amount of time. No complaints here for sure.

Dumb question...other than durability and $$$ is there any difference between stainless and mild steel ???

Oh and i have some A body big block headers for sale in the race parts section

My stainless ones are heavy...

Been our experience too

When you throw in the durability part, I'm not sure if i was building my own I'd use M/S anymore, especially if you're spraying. Specifically for your application, the general pathway of "UP and OVER" then out the fender might be the best. You could error on the small side of pipemax if the lengths are shorter and the trajectory is nice. Thanks for all the additional pics that have been added! I have a decent inventory of bends yet but, apparently the materials cost has gone up a bunch. That may be your deciding factor. So, you're saying your old headers that served you well are for sale in the for sale section!?

The old headers ive been using ......yes they are for sale . I brought them to a very reputable engine shop for a dyno session and....they kind of told me [censored] are these ??? And they are not the correct size and length. To get what i really need, they are going to have to be fender exits. Short and BIGGER. Yea im a special case because im using a power adder and NA is of really no concern

I'll likely never attempt this, but curious: what gauge tubing are you guys using?

Now that I'm remembering, after looking at the pics, you might do well going up and out. Moving the master cyl might be in order and the smartest. Dartin's are on an RB with -1's so you can get a visual of what a gang of tubes may look like. The worst flowing will be #2 by far. Orient them firing into the collector in a circle too. Should be easier to fab putting the collector above the mid-level body line...

Yes master cyl is going inside with a wilwood reverse pedal assembly. Im really leaning towards front of the tire exit because i dont want to chop up the firewall....but who knows. Right now im stripping it all down to get the frame straight and get the inner fender wells out.

5% heavier. Next time use 18ga.

Rust. Mild steel will rust inside, even if coated. Some of the rust scale will end up back in the cylinder.

Heat conduction. SS doesn't conduct heat as well. More heat stays in the exhaust gas.

Plus you can use 18 gauge tube.

16 gauge set, 30", 2.125 d, with 3/8" full flange and a merge collector is heavy. No doubt.

3/8 Flanges with added center bolts, no gaskets. 1 7/8" 321 stainless tube. Made a poor choice of having them ceramic coated. Burned off after the first few launches. Very expensive even doing it all myself. Worth every cent. Never needed any repairs even with torturous zero degree launch strategies.

looks like to me that you are tempting fate with those extruded aluminum Crane rocker arms and using springs between them instead of shims and spacers
Murphy would have burnt any rig I worked on with twin turbos and solid roller cams with those rockers arms on my builds to the ground

broke more than one exhaust rocker… that pic was to show the exhaust flange with center studs between the ports.

I also elongated the shafts using those stock hold downs

Wish I could link picts but I’m fortunate to live 50 miles from REF Unlimited home of “headers while you wait”. I’ve had Greg do two sets of pipe. Drop off at 7am, pickup by 2-3….. dudes an artist.

got you both covered…

I see some weight savings on your intake manifold bolts.....LOL

Joe

I KNOW you guys are just lightly jabbing or even adding constructive criticism but, it can read harsh. I just don't want to discourage ANYONE from posting pics. We can all gain from it. Thanks for adding to the thread again!

While definitely not a Mopar thought I would share some more headers. Vettes old small, pump gas street car headers to it's current racey ones This is a stock front end car, stock steering, control arms and frame rails.

Street car days


Current headers

Ovaled tube in the second pic is interesting. You ever talk to someone at one of the big race shops about the effects of doing that? Maintaining the area as opposed to just beating a dent in it seems a better solution. Just wonder if it hurts it. Sometimes you just have to make it fit.

Many other changes to those heads between those two pics. The last revision before the new headers was to move the exhaust valve guide/valve over to make more room for the largest intake valve we could get in that small chamber. The entire exhaust port was then reshaped for a much smaller valve. All the work was done by Slawko of course. But good catch FWIW these headers were done by REF in Kingman, Greg and the guys have YEARS of experience with everything from bracket stuff to comp. We hold the shop record for the longest amount of time a car has spent in the shop getting headers made. It was there 4.5 days. As Jay pointed out most stuff is in at breakfast and done by lunch or shortly there after.

interesting reading for sure. Im making some fender exits now and its funny that to make them equal length in a tight space it requires a few "loops" I have been instructed that loops and bends are restrictive. Make them short and fewer bends instead of equal length and a lot of bends...ill post up some pics later tonight for all to see my

.

I used to have the magazine this article was in originally, but just came across it online. It may be from 2003, but I believe most of the info is still pertinent. LINK

Came with car and the inner fenders were already cut

It’s a start , I’m no professional

Nice work Tony! Looks like decent access to plugs.

Dracarys……

Here are the headers I built. Finished, and on the engine.

You guys do some nice work!

So far I'm liking what I see! these should pick-up your program!

I am watching this closely, where are you guys getting your 2 1/4 tubing kits I believe I am going to need that size for my low deck with 440-1 heads in a Bbody as of now I can do fenderwell or under chassis, any input will be appreciated. Thanks Doug

I buy all my tubing from StainlessHeaders.com They are in Minnesota, but not close enough for me to drive there and pick up. Just easier to have them ship to my door, and never had a problem. i didn't buy a "kit" either. just figured out roughly what I needed for bends, and bought a bunch of U bends.

X2 on stainless headers. I didnt see what i wanted as far as a kit on their site, i called there and they built a kit for me. Quick shipping and great guys to deal with

Thanks guys, I was looking for a kit but that answers my question. Doug

Hedman race division sells flanges, bends and straight pipes and all the components needed to make your own headers
They offer U bends and J bends both as well as others type header pipes that I can't remember now ten years later

IMO SPD is the best when it comes to header materials...Quality is next to none but price reflects that.

Stainless holds heat in the exhaust, which is energy, aiding in better scavenging without having to do what i do. Wrap them, since i build my own out of m. s. Also no rust buildup inside the tubes. That may cause some power loss at some point?

Driver side tacked , the shorted tube ended up 18 , but the collector adds 2” (merge) so it’s within 6” of what it was supposed to be . I got the cyl in order to fire in a circle also , that helped because it added a few inches to #3

Regular steel, coated, wrapped, or stainless, NONE of that stuff makes any difference in HP. Wrapped will keep heat down in the engine compartment, but it does't help make power.

Getting there .

Looking good Tony.

That collector exit on the side of the car will look wicked.
Maybe blow the hat off a bystander... LOL

they will be trimmed way back. maybe just stick out 1" or so past the fender. We are not allowed bullhorns in Ultra street BUT whats going on inside the fender..... Really it wont be much, but its all i could get in the little real estate there is.

Nice tape

Looking good.

mentioning bullhorns, what advantage do they serve ?
i am asking this because i seem to be seeing more of them on fast cars.
TIA for helping me to understand.

Downforce. While not a lot, on a fast car, you take every bit of advantage you can to not get air under the car.

ON a car with no wheelie bars, they are supposed to add (from the exhaust velocity aimed up) almost 30lbs to the front, without carrying 30lbs if that makes sense.
Helps keep the front down

I'm assuming Bullhorns mean the collector pointing up outside the body, correct or not?
I would be temted,if i had set, to try pointing them back towards the rear bumper for additional ET
Greedy I BE

thanks for helping me understand this guys !

You know us body guys , we use masking tape for everything.
Tape removed

Drag from the tube hanging outside the body would likely outstrip any "thrust" from the headers

that's one thing [among others] that makes me not quite understand why bullhorns are used.

When it comes to aerodynamics testing Mopar did a bunch of that using crepe paper strips on one of their test Dusters back in the mid 1970s filming it and then looking at each frame from the starting line to the finish line in the 1/4 mile.
I've seen the same testing done on small racing airplanes the nose, fuselage, wings, rudder and tail designs all come into play on aerodynamic drag,
I owned and flew a Piper 260 Comanche single engine 5 place airplane, it would average around 180 MPH indicated air speed straight and level on 60% full power above 9500 Ft. above sea level, the fuel consumption got a lot better the higher you flew do to needing to lean it out for the thinner air
We were flying back to SO CA from visiting our grandkids in Seatle WA, we were above a cloud layer at 11,500 ft the outside air temps were right at 5 F, the ride was very smooth, and I was bored so I started playing around with prop pitch RPM, sliding my seat all the way back as far as it would go made the airplane speed up around 4 MPH
Slowing the prop speed down from 2400 RPM to 2300 RPM picked up 12 MPH
I ended up trying from 2000 RPM to 2600 RPM in 500 RPM increments, that airplane that day a in those weather at that altitude like 2300 RPM best.
My message is to test before deciding on what will work versus what you may think will or won't work on our toys
Lots of ways to slow down, not so many on making our cars and other toys faster, test, test and test some more

2.250 tube with 4” collector B1 RB in a Foxbody.

Plenty of folk still using them, people have done testing with positive results as well.

https://www.yellowbullet.com/thread...ust-a-fad-or-does-it-really-work.230383/

https://www.dragzine.com/news/upturned-bull-horn-exhaust-just-a-fad-or-does-it-really-work/

Some older articles for your reading

Wow! educational, thanks !

Mine....old way.....new way...Notice the size difference in the tubes...

thanks for the links LA !
i can finally start to understand this concept.
there is quite a bit of difference between an 11 second car and a 5 [or 4] second one.

Finished product

Turning them up to help with downforce, sure. It's free weight not subject to a those post race weighing thingies, scales.

Turning them back to the rear to increase speed through additional thrust, I doubt it seriously has a positive effect. Drag vs thrust.

One side done, a couple pipes to fix on the other, then wrap that side. Getting close!

Here is a set I built for my street/road race 'Cuda. It's a turbo car with 345's up front, so packaging is tight.

I'm using the Victor heads, and no one makes a header flange I liked. I bought the Stainless Headers one and figured out it's just a copy of the .dxf file for the gasket. Decided to make my own (right one is the SH flange and left is mine):



I had these water jet cut, and the port slug gave me an idea. I reduced the OD about .030", put a radius on the driven edge, and drilled a hole to attach a handle. This became my forming tool for the stubs. I formed the stub on the bench, inserted, and then formed it again in the flange. Worked out pretty good:








I used the Lego's to layout about 10 different setup's. The goal was all primaries within 1/2" of each other, easy spark plug access, and be removable without pulling the engine! I finally got there, but damn...






The other side was no easier, as I have the engine offset 1-1/2" to the passenger side.

Couple more, hit the posting limit above.

Wow !! Impressive stuff for sure, any pics of the whole project ?

Greg,
Good to hear the progress.
What didn't you like about the #1 and #7 tubes?

Craig,
Good job with forming the tubes.

I do, but all in weird stages. I'm about to get it off the table and will post up some with it together more. Her is a rendering I had done, not exact but close:

.

Greg said he needs to "fix" #1 and #7 tubes.

.

Jim, I didn't secure the collecters to pipes 3 &5 good enough, and the collecters slid down 1/2 inch while facing up 1& 7. So, they don't fit well, 🙄

Looks very purposeful