Moparts

Tubing lifter bores in a small block

Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Tubing lifter bores in a small block - 01/25/22 07:56 PM

Does anyone happen to have any of these on their shelf they've like to get rid of?

I've got a 340 block that I need to put lifter galley tubes in because roller lifter cut outs are coming out above the lifter bores.

I could replace lifters and pushrods but that'll cost over $1,000

I could bush the lifter bores but that'll cost at least $1,200

So I'm looking for the parts to install tubes in the lifter oil galleys.

Mancini and other Mopar dealers are all out of stock so looking to see if anyone has any on the shelf they'd sell me? (my number is in my signature)

P5249508 - Drill and ream package

P4120603 - Tube and peen tool package

Attached picture race-oil-restriction-packages-17.jpg
Attached picture reamer.jpg
Posted By: A990

Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block - 01/25/22 08:26 PM

I recently discovered this lifter bushing kit from Wydendorf Machine

https://wydendorfmachine.com/reamerkits.html

Hope this helps
Ken
Posted By: B3422W5

Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block - 01/26/22 01:46 AM

1200 to bush lifter bores?
The shop that did my motor had to send the block out to BES to get it done, was still only 900.
Posted By: madscientist

Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block - 01/26/22 05:13 AM

You buy the drill, reamer and tubing from MSC supply. Round off and old lifter for the peen tool. Should be less than 125 bucks.
Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block - 01/26/22 05:27 AM

Use the wrong tubing and break the casting trying to get the peen tool through the bore. Don't ask how I know that.
Posted By: Gtxxjon

Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block - 01/26/22 11:11 AM

Wonderful subject indeed.

I have a race 340 block here that had the long tubes fitted for roller lifters?

It did not end well for the crank, rods and bearings...!

The tubing has starved the bigends of much needed oil...

So I have removed the offending tubes and will be purchasing the Wydendorf kit ASAP. penguin

You have been warned lol... fan
Posted By: Bad340fish

Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block - 01/26/22 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by Gtxxjon
Wonderful subject indeed.

I have a race 340 block here that had the long tubes fitted for roller lifters?

It did not end well for the crank, rods and bearings...!

The tubing has starved the bigends of much needed oil...

So I have removed the offending tubes and will be purchasing the Wydendorf kit ASAP. penguin

You have been warned lol... fan


You do have to drill the tube from the mains so they will get oil smile

Its probably safe to say that there is thousands and thousands of small blocks with the galley tubed. I put 4 drag weeks on a 360 with the lifter oiling blocked off.
Posted By: B1MAXX

Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block - 01/26/22 12:37 PM

I've done it twice. I drill first to 9/16. Then to 5/8. I have two drill bits I made by welding round stock to the bits. There was two peening tools mopar made one was rounded end the other was more of a pencil shape the round nose works easier.
Posted By: madscientist

Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block - 01/26/22 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Use the wrong tubing and break the casting trying to get the peen tool through the bore. Don't ask how I know that.


That’s true about the tubing. If the OP isn’t comfortable with making a tubing choice I can look up what I use and give him the part number. The other thing I forgot to mention is that even after peening the lifter won’t fit in the bore without binding (probably). So I always take a paper roll and polish the tube where it breaks through the lifter bores.

Also, I stopped using a press fit on the tube years ago. It should slide right in. Once you peen the tube it can’t come out. It’s much easier and cleaner to slip fit the tube. Even if it’s a .010 slip fit. Pressing the tube in with even .001 press is a PITA with about a 10 inch tube with that thin wall.
Posted By: Gtxxjon

Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block - 01/26/22 06:03 PM

That’s very funny ‘bad fish’ lol... thumbs

The longer smaller drill is to cross-drill the crank feed oil holes but,
It’s probably too small for race use?
If I had opened them up to something larger it may have been OK?

If I remember correctly the end feed was more the issue...

Anyways it’s gone now, just got to get the Wydendorf kit, for many reasons lol...
Posted By: DavidDean

Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block - 01/26/22 06:04 PM

I've done several blocks through time. I prefer a 5/8 OD copper tube. I've also done a few with a thin wall 9/16 copper tube, its a little thin for me. The tip about the tube fitting slightly loose is great advice. I've purchased my bits and reamers through Mcmaster and had an extension welded. When redrilling the oil galleys take the time to drill them slightly oversize. I think the original instructions called for 9/32 I've done most to 5/16. Be careful with every step ! When peening the tube I've used a ground lifter for the first trip after that I've used a broaching tool from Goodson that works very well. It may take some work to get the lifters to slide in the bore. I've also used an adjustable reamer in the lifter bores to get everything where there was no binding or tight spots. Be careful not to get the bores oversize. At one time there was an article in tech archives by Herb McCandless that was very good. I have a number of Mopar performance articles covering this modification. PM me as needed. If you're using push rod oiling both sides can be tubed but the lifter bores will need an oil feed hole and you'll need the special Mopar tool to do this. I have an X block done that way.
Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block - 01/26/22 06:12 PM

I can see it being done on a build that's on a tight budget. But the advantages of doing the bushings on anything good makes that a no brainer..

Corrects the bore location and corrects the bore size on all 16 holes, more friendly material for the lifters given the side loads in the standard small block.

I had one done with the tube many years ago. Machine shop guy did it on a vertical mill that was able to run the correct speed and feed. Used one of the DC reamers with a pilot ground on the end to the size of the galley to keep it from wandering off center like they want to do as they intersect the lifter bores. Properly annealed the tubing to dead soft so it could be peened easily. That worked okay, but most guys don't want to go through all that.

I can tell you, a straight piece of copper tube from the plumbing department down at Home Cheapo is too hard and is asking for trouble.
Posted By: moparx

Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block - 01/26/22 06:42 PM

a pilot is always needed on following a long hole, reaming oversize. just good machining practice to prevent wandering.
way easier to do it this way, than to try straightening up the hole after it wanders off. [into the sunset]
beer
Posted By: WadeMetzinger

Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block - 01/26/22 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by madscientist
Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Use the wrong tubing and break the casting trying to get the peen tool through the bore. Don't ask how I know that.


That’s true about the tubing. If the OP isn’t comfortable with making a tubing choice I can look up what I use and give him the part number. The other thing I forgot to mention is that even after peening the lifter won’t fit in the bore without binding (probably). So I always take a paper roll and polish the tube where it breaks through the lifter bores.

Also, I stopped using a press fit on the tube years ago. It should slide right in. Once you peen the tube it can’t come out. It’s much easier and cleaner to slip fit the tube. Even if it’s a .010 slip fit. Pressing the tube in with even .001 press is a PITA with about a 10 inch tube with that thin wall.


I would appreciate any help with this. The Mopar supplies seem to be gone, so can I just use a standard 5/8" copper tubing?
Posted By: madscientist

Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block - 01/26/22 09:18 PM

I’ll get the part numbers tonight and post them.
Posted By: B3422W5

Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block - 01/26/22 09:28 PM

Not sure what the guy did who built the shortblock i bought( he is no longer in business) and the shortblock was riddled with issues….but the reason i had to do lifter bushings is because the block was tubed for a roller cam, and all the lifter bores on that side of the block were wallowed out on the bottoms of the bores. The bores got “ wider” from top to bottom to the point my guy felt uncomfortable with me running my solid cam and lifters in it( had him remove the tube). Quite the friggin mess
I bought the shortblock in Detroit from a really nice guy who had it earmarked for a B body who decided to wait on his Gen 2 hemi to be finished.
Tight bearing clearances, cocked freeze plugs, yada, yada
Posted By: madscientist

Re: Tubing lifter bores in a small block - 01/31/22 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by WadeMetzinger
Originally Posted by madscientist
Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Use the wrong tubing and break the casting trying to get the peen tool through the bore. Don't ask how I know that.


That’s true about the tubing. If the OP isn’t comfortable with making a tubing choice I can look up what I use and give him the part number. The other thing I forgot to mention is that even after peening the lifter won’t fit in the bore without binding (probably). So I always take a paper roll and polish the tube where it breaks through the lifter bores.

Also, I stopped using a press fit on the tube years ago. It should slide right in. Once you peen the tube it can’t come out. It’s much easier and cleaner to slip fit the tube. Even if it’s a .010 slip fit. Pressing the tube in with even .001 press is a PITA with about a 10 inch tube with that thin wall.


I would appreciate any help with this. The Mopar supplies seem to be gone, so can I just use a standard 5/8" copper tubing?


Hey Wade, finally got the chance to look up the numbers for you. I bought all this in 2009. I bought enough that I still have enough tubing to do 4 or 5 more blocks so my pricing isn’t right.

For the copper tubing I used the 5 foot sticks and the MSC part number is 65177552. It is nominally sized at .625 and at one time I measured it and it was .625-.624 and it’s not perfectly round.

The MSC part number for the reamer is 81136277 for the import reamer and it was about 18 bucks at the time. The USA made reamer, which I bought is part number 02297604 and it was about 40 bucks at the time. It’s diameter is .6229/16 mm. It will allow a nice slip fit. Once you peen the tube it can’t move.

It’s really a very simple job to do.

I did turn the end of the reamer down to .500 and I then TIG welded an extension on it, then machined the extension down so it reams straight.
© 2024 Moparts Forums