Indy 3X , 550 cubes, gains from p porting the intake?

My 550 cu in motor with 15-1 compression, .870 lift roller on methanol has the 3X Indy intake. Anyone have a 3X ported? Gains? I have port injection.

Have you ran it on the dyno yet?

Hard to say. With port injection the manifold should be flowing mostly air and air goes around corners a lot easier than fuel. If it was my engine I'd run it enough as is to get a really good baseline and then I'd pull it apart and look it over. If the manifold looks like it needs some help then I'd send it to Wilson Manifolds and let them smooth it out.

If I'm remembering correctly that intake has distribution issues with the #2&4 and the #5&7 intake runners supposedly due to those two dividers sticking out to far into the plenum under the carb.
Maybe it won't be a problem with air only running down the runners

14 pulls, less than 3 inch crankcase vacuum.

Show us some pics of the plenum and we can guide your decision. Because it is essentially a 'dry' manifold you won't have bad distribution issues.

looks like it wants to be shifted higher than you pulled it too

On my 512 I gained over .12s and at least +1mph from removing that damn clover shape out of the top of the 4500 intake.

1-2. At 7450 rpm, 2-3 at 7350 rpm. I tried higher and lower rpm, this was the sweet spot. Lag in the trans is worse on the 1-2 shift. Airshifter set at 7250. Next outing I will have seperate rpm settings for each shift.

I just called Wilson manifolds and it sounds like they would do a similar reshaping on mine. It won't be cheap if I have them work on it but I have spent more$$$$ for a shot at less power gain.

There's probably 25 or so HP in porting it TO YOUR APPLICATION. But again because it isn't a wet application I don't feel that is hard to do for ANYONE who knows what their doing. There may be something obvious in the plenum. Pipemax will give you ideal intake track length #'s. I believe the power you got off the dyno..where does that put you in your 3050lbs? I think you're not using all you have. Just trying to sae you some unnecessary money.

The last runs I made were at 3015 lbs, went 154 mph at 8.84. BUT, I had some serious issues. The trans was hurting, found a bad wobble. At passenger side front. Now I know why the acceleration graph looks like it does😟

My S/P car has a 512 C.I. 400 stroker bracket motor with 15.0 to 1 comp. ratio with Indy 440-1 heads with a Indy 400-3 intake and a Wilson 2.0 inch high reversion spacer under a E85 Dominator that probably flows right at 1000 CFM
the car weighs 2850 Lbs. with me in it and has ran two 8.882 at 148 MPH shifting the Powerglide at 7000 RPM and ran 8.886 at 150. MPH on the next run one hour later shifting it 7300 RPM
I'm thinking the two B1 and B1-MC motor I will be building soon will like to be shifted at 7500+ like all the other B1 motors I've heard about

For what it is worth for this discussion, this is what the Indy Catalog shows for the 440-3 and 440-3X intakes.

Maybe a little cleanup was done?

Is this intake a early 440-3 or the later one with the single cast in boss for the EFI injectors?
There is a distinct difference in the two on the intake runner divider length sticking into the plenum
I think the later manifolds stick in further than the original ones with the two cast in individual bosses for the EFI injectors
Your picture looks like the original shorter dividers clean up a little

I just had Wilson Manifold convert a Indy 400-2 4150 to a 4500 series flange, port the plenum and gasket match for max wedge ports. They did an amazing job and quick turn a round.

Looks like Gregs manifold has been relieved around the throttle bores a bit.
Perhaps to accommodate a carb with slightly larger than “standard”(2”) 4500 throttle bores.

If Greg is running a throttle body with one large bore(like a flying toilet), I feel like the cloverleaf stuff should def go.
Although, with the plenum area being dry, it may not amount to much of anything.

I believe Greg is using a -3X manifold, not the -3

I know the -3X is a lot taller (see Indy catalog), but I don't know if the plenum to runner area is larger in cross section.

My 3X has vertical injecters bosses. I bought it in Jan of 2003. Looks like i did some whittling for the four Terminater 2.5 inch throttle blades.

Well, my 3X intake is headed to Florida for some work. Should have it back in 5 or6 weeks.

Sorry I was out on vacation for a long weekend. That manifold didn't look too bad, but as has been mentioned I'm going to speculate that when it comes back from 'Florida' it won't have the clover up top and it won't have required any welding. I'm sure it'll be an improvement. I look forward to new results!

Me too😁

Here is a picture of a 440-3 intake, and 440-3X side by side.

And here is a properly ported 3X.....Oh yeah NOT done in Florida

That is what I think a big intake should look like. I've never figured out why Indy doesn't cast them that way. Must be something that Indy thinks the engine wants vs. what the porting guys think the engine wants.

Well I will say that one is on a BIG engine. To be honest I was very impressed with how it came out, both engine and intake. Makes very good power numbers but that's just a dyno number-but for a .500/.488 lobe and under 14-1 it works well. I has been low 7.20's in a 1900lb dragster here in Vegas in the summer.

Al, did you port that one yourself ? Any befor/after power numbers?

Greg, No I did not had a very smart former? board member here do it. I can tell you its runs better than it did with 2x4 set up and on the dyno that was about 40HP but also two different dynos.

Talked to Wilson Manifolds yesterday and i am having a " mid level full port" done. That includes work on full length of the runners but no major cutting I assume. Since there are a lot of changes to the combo, the comparison to the " before" dyno numbers will be hard to figure.
The changes are-
Changed from Milodon gear drive to belt drive.
.240 longer rods
.036/036/3mm rings with lower tension, from .043/.043/3/16 low tension?
Gibtech pistons, L2L coated on skirts same as original pistons.
New wrist pins, DLC COATED .205 wall thick( from .180)
BMP block, aluminum versus iron megablock
Same center weighted Crower crank, which I hope will reduce any issues of distortion and ring seal that may come from a non center weighted crank.
Everything else will remain the same dyno sheet from June 2020

Did you have Jones make you this cam? Did he recommend spring loads? What's the #'s 050 200 LSA? Lobe lift?

Jones spec'd it out. Inverted flank roller, .510 intake lobe .480 ex lobe. 1.7 Jesel Rockers. Duration @ .050 int 284 ex 296 . 113LSA in at 111. .200 numbers are ? 205 int?. Lash is .019 int and .020 ex.

Nice! Did he spec you Seat/Open valve loads?

D
I told him what I was using and as I recall that was deamed ok. Due to economy I stayed with comp 947 triples on exhaust. Set at about 330 lbs on the seat. Intakes I had to go to PAC 1228 due to net lift of .848 after lash. Those ended up at 2.070 as I recall with about 310 lbs on the seat. The 1228 springs have a 2.100 spec installed hieght with 280 pds. At 2.070 they ended up at what I thought was enough since they have less mass than the 947s. The 2.070 is about max for -1 heads and I needed +.100 retainers and +.050 retainers combined with spring cups that are .030 thick.

Got the 3X intake back from Wilson. I wish I knew what I am looking at🧐

Looks like the plenum floor got worked into a shape that will direct fuel into each cylinder in a carb application?

Looks great. Should pick up some power for you. I've tested a lot of Wilson intakes and they are usually 20 to 30 hp better than as cast.

Sounds great to me Andy. I was concerned it may not gain that much due to the methanol port injection, will be interesting when I get it on the dyno.

Port injection?

So I guess it still has to have the fuel rails, etc installed.

Individual nozzles screw into each runner by the head.

Have you played around with different nozzle locations? There should be some power gain from evaporation but I don't know where the nozzle should be to optimize that.

Is that after having the manifold machined for them?

I drilled and tapped them. As far as nozzle placement I have asked experts about it, as I recall no advantage to moving them. But, a call to Kinsler tomorrow since you mentioned it for another opinion.

I've seen, years ago, roundy round dirt sprint cars with the Kinsler F.I. using them with the methanol injector nozzles mounted halfway up the tubes, not anywhere near the flanges.

Definitely looks great. I don't know anything. So, itis good to hear experience fron testing.

Looks good to me too but, like everyone else has said, the proof is in the pudding! I'm eager to see this run.

So what was the cost?

This was a quote for my 440-2 before we started to make an entirely new intake based on that casting:


"Our Competition Porting Service is $1675 and an EFI Conversion (install bungs, billet -8 or -10 fuel rails and stanchions) is $800. "

I will most likely send it out eventually as my low deck engine collection grows.

OK,
I think Indy is selling the 3X intake for $700 now. Plus $1700 ... $2,400 cast intake manifold.
I did look at Wilson's web site and some of their sheet metal intakes are around $4,500

I guess the days of $150 used intakes from the swap meet are over...

I'll sell you a used intake for $150. It won't make as much power as a $1500 intake, but your engine will run.

After reading this I chose to leave the nozzles where they were. Puppy agreed.
Reading further about down nozzles in the heads that spray directly on the intake valve is interesting.

That’s on stack injection and I’m not sure I even believe that. I ran two flying toilets on a tunnel ram and every time I moved the nozzles up I made more power everywhere. Maybe, maybe because stack injection limits airflow moving the nozzles up may be a power loss. Maybe. But on a manifold like yours moving the nozzles up to the base of the plenum will make more power. If you lose some idle quality, increase the idle check pressure. I ended up at 12 or 14 PSI on the idle check with the nozzles up high and it idled as good as it did with the lower nozzle position.

Mad, I will investigate further. Thanks all for input. The last piece of the puzzle showed up today, a Jesel belt drive. Now if I have the right length pushrods,,,,,, 🤔

Greg,
Are the port exit openings (to the heads) this size? or closer to 1.375 x 2.65


From the Indy web site for intake gaskets:

My ports match the 572 gaskets perfectly. They were done by Radar(nickname?) In Iowa in 2002.

Roger Lechtenberg. Same guy that did my MW Victors and Indy intake.

Then your $$$$ intake will be perfect if you decide to change to 572-13 heads.

I talked to Ken Lazzeri of INDY at PRI, on Thursday, and we discussed the 440-3X intake. They are redesigning it to look more like this. Said it will take a while before it's ready, but is in the works. He wasn't shy about telling me what needed to be done to mine.

Ken has consistently been very sharing with information every time I engaged him. Which is one reason I do business with Indy regardless of the previous owners.