5-Point Seat Belt Install

I'm working on a slow stocker / bracket-race car & would like to use 3", 5-point type seat belts. Something better than the factory belts.
My question is where to attach the shoulder belts when the car dosen't have a a roll bar & is using OEM seats.
Anyone have any examples of this type install?
Thanks.

Well...they should be attached close behind the driver, from level with the top of the shoulders to 4" below that, according to the rule book.

The only place you have is the floor - if you find a set long enough. And that is not a good place. It could actually do more harm than good in certain situations. I think I would do without before I went to the floor.

I would ask some slow stocker guys what they are doing. Not a lot of options.

Remember, shoulder belts stop your upper torso from going forward only, the seat belts stop you from going forward and up. So I would set them angling back or to the back seat belt holes. Pretty much in same line as with a cross bar behind seat.

There’s no good way to do this, other than installing a bar-loop in just behind the seat. If you’re going to do that, might as well put a bar in. Any existing point in the car that you pick is going to be just as much or more of a hazard than a safety improvement. Just use the lap & anti-submarine belts until the car has a bar.

Might be able to make a reinforced area in the package tray behind the rear seat. That would give you an attachment point that is only slightly below your shoulders. There should be instructions in the box on how to mount the shoulder belts. The mounting is important since you can injure yourself if they are mounted wrong. Mounting them to the floor is not correct so don't do that.

Either a cross-brace or a rollbar seem the best options here.
Belts that go far back will likely have some stretch if put to the test.
Another dynamic is side/side torso movement from an impact.
Just how slow - or fast - is the car ? 1/4 or 1/8 mile ?

I have a 66 Coronet 500 which we just started taking to the track, it’s more of a street car. Before I took it out I ask the tech guy about seat belts and when I told him it would probably run in the 12s he said the stock seat belt would be fine. The first time I took it out it was in the mid 11s and I didn’t feel comfortable with the 50 year old lap belts. I ended up ordering 3 inch 5 point Simpson belts and as per their instructions the shoulder belts use the rear seat belt mounting points behind the driver and come out between the upper and lower seats. I thought mounting them that way would make the shoulder harness too low and too much of an angle, but it seems pretty good and is way better than just the stock lap belt.

I would have a NHRA legal roll boar installed now and install the drivers harness correctly
This is based on the car going faster now than you expected and you and I both know it will go faster as you get better driving it and tuning it, 11.49 is when the roll bar is required, do it now

Thanks Cab, but we have a faster car to tweak on ,this one will remain a street car pretty much and a roll bar has its own problems in a car that’s mostly street driven. If it gets near 11.49 I will slow it down some. The car has a really nice all original black bucket seat console interior.

The project is a 2003 Neon R/T, 150HP,122CI, 4 cylinder, 5 speed manual. The plan is to run NHRA DF/Stock. NHRA DF/S 1/4 mile index is 15.60. It will never be fast. Maybe mid 80s MPH. A roll bar just got add to the to-do list.

Get a rule book, you’ll find out you don’t need any of that stuff. Lap belt and maybe a helmet

A roll bar isn't a bad idea even if it isn't required by the rules. Stuff goes wrong all the time, sometimes the guy in the next lane has a problem and he ends up in your lane. Even when it isn't your fault it is nice to have a little extra protection.

You're only going 80. But in Stock, you can have guys in the other lane going over 160, on 9" tires, and on the brakes.

Just saying.

A little different than the street class at the local track.

Got the rule book, got the helmet. It's just one of those "I'd rather have it & not need it than need it & not have it" things.

THIS/\

I asked a chassis guy about putting a crossbar behind the seat in a 14 second car to use 5 point belts. His answer was "Why you want belts in the car that will keep you straight up if you go upside down with no bar?".

and for the life of me, i don't understand why it's ok to use up to 50 year old STOCK, 1 3/4" belts, while upgrading to 3" belts requires REPLACEMENT every TWO years !

I found out that the 2 year rule doesn't apply for slower cars.

Since we are NOT referring to highly reclined single open wheel seating, it has to be noted, any seat strap has to be restrained at each end to be effective.
Most comments here are focusing on only one end of the shoulder belt, the downside of improper positioning is spine compression, not good.

But what I see overlooked, the other end of the shoulder belt attaches to the hopefully across the hips, lap belt.

When the upper torso in an accident moves forward, and applies tension to shoulder harness, the end attached to the lap belt pulls the belt up into the stomach area. A lap belt across the hips is properly containing the largest bone structure in the body. A lap belt that crosses the lower stomach area is in one of the most vulnerable/softest parts of the human body. The misnamed 5th "submarine belt" in our upright seating sedan cars is what prevents the shoulder harness from pulling up the lap belt into the kidneys,liver, pancreas, bladder, etc. in an accident.
Your gonads are of minor concern here. Positioning well the 5th belt is nearly as important as the shoulder belt mounts.

aftermarket belts need to be changed every 2 years per nhra most all track enforce that , oem belts even from the 60's do not expire (even 60 years old)
gary

we buy these belts because they supposedly are SAFER than OEM belts, yet 50-60 year old belts are ok, never mind the possibility of them being "stored" out beside the shed for the last 10 years or so. if they are so good at that age, why even bother to install aftermarket belts that need to conform to xyz specs ? just head out to the local junkyard and grab whatever belts you can find. they will be FINE !
and as to the "slower" cars not needing aftermarket belt replacement every two years, not around here. you put those belts in, they need replaced, period !
unless, of course, you run at an outlaw track where almost anything goes.
the excuse given for the two year replacement rule is "we don't know what condition the belt is in." well open your eyes and look ! frayed stitching or webbing, hacks or cuts, improper mounting ? good cause for rejection. yet dried out, stiff webbing, frayed stitching, rusty hardware factory belts still ok ? yeah, RIGHT !

I think the 2-year belt rule is a case of aftermarket support from NHRA.
Same deal on trans blankets, isn't it ?
I've, um, tested a 20-year-old OEM shoulder/lap belt, though at about 30 MPH, it did its job.
And its retractor also worked as intended.
I'm not arguing that the OEM belts are as good as race belts, just saying that the "exposure" argument seems contrived.

Agree totally

If your concern is the old factory belts , Why not just replace the OEM unit with an aftermarket 5 point set and only use the lap belt ?? That will give you as good if not better safety than the original one and not mess with your car .

I have thought about doing as you are suggesting but I still want some sort of upper body restraint. I'm going to see if I can get a custom belt made that would include a 2 or 3" belt that would attach to the B-post OEM belt mounting point similar to OEM belt set-up

My thoughts exactly! during "test and tune" events, no telling who's in the other lane.

What are ya gonna do, wave the quicker cars by till a 15 second car shows up?

Another thought occurred to me, does your Neon have reinforced tabs for anchoring a child seat in the rear.

If these are high enough they might be a spot you could reinforce to support your shoulder harness, I had a set years ago that was extra long to attach to the rear seat belt anchors on my Challenger.

Weld an 1/8 plate to each B pillar. Weld a 1 1/4 moly or 1 5/8 bar in between the plates. Anchor the shoulder belt as it should be, support the seat also. This stiffens the car, makes your belts safe and seat safer