Anyone running an Aftermarket K on a 64 B body

Just tossing around some ideas to drop some weight. Anyone out here running an aftermarket K member in a 64 B body? If so whos is it? Is the car driven any on the street? Just thinking out loud and pondering future possibilities.

I have a Gerst/QA1 on order. I was advised to go 66-72 style, only difference is engine placement. Sets the engine back 1 5/8. It will be going in my 64 Fury.

IIRC there use the T bars and old steering box?

Not the Gerst/QA1.

Guess i need to look harder the QA1 stuff I saw was T bar stuff

I used an Alter Kation in a 68 Dart, not a B body, but RMS does make them for the early B's
No torsion bars and uses a steering rack

Ed

If you know a good chassis builder they can put a double A arm setup on there without too much work. The chassis guy here in town just finished converting a B body over to double A arms with coil overs and a rack.

Go to the Gerst website, it's now sold through QA1.

here is the website www.gerstsuspensions.com

They sold out to to QA1 - They make the best front end out there right now - a buddy of mine put one on a dart - real quality piece and easy to install from what he told me

The QA1 set-up for torsion bars weighs as much as a K-frame - the only advantage I see is oil pan clearance - the rest of the components such as a-arms and such are nice pieces

Gotcha...I'm old and slow..

Andy my son and I could covert it to a Mustang II deal easy enough but not what I am looking to do. Trying to keep it as stock as possible, already have tube chassis cars.

I believe these are totally different than Gersts and are a direct replacement for your car.
If this model# is wrong just check the other models available.
These use stock torsion bars

Gerst is now part of QA1

Gersts deal is different than the original QA1 stuff.
QA1 is still making their original equipment.

I have a Gerst front in my 67 , nice piece .. Carl is a good guy

Perhaps Al could road trip a little east over Labor Day weekend and check it out

I have a QA1 K member on the Challenger. Frees up some room for a long pan, uses stock type suspension components.
Though just for info, you have to cut most of the drivers side engine mount away if you run external oiling.

Currently the car has a motor plate and would stay that way. Engine in it makes a few HP's and if it gets replaced with the Hemi I have lying around it also makes pretty good power so engine will stay on a plate. Car weighs 3460 right no and just looking to try and drop some tonnage where I can. I get the Gerst/QA1 thing, just didnt see they were seperate deals under one banner now and will look into those. I have had an alterkation and dont like the front track being pushed out, at least like an A bodies is. I dont need this for any additional clearance for sure. Have a custom pan on it now and a set of custom headers that all work fine. Really just looking at dropping some weight. Maybe I should just start trimming and cutting away at the stock piece.

IIRC there was 2lbs difference in favor of the QA1, before I cut it.

Well pretty sure we could loose more than 2lbs modifying whats there. Why I was looking at something that went to a rack and no t bars, but maybe I am overcomplication things as what i have works fairly well. Car has run 8's and other than the cage and bars looks like a Sunday cruiser.

"Have a custom pan on it now and a set of custom headers that all work fine." That would be a big decision choice point if you started from scratch which would more justify the expense to be in-line with the benefits. If we consider how much lighter Doug's '64 is (3330 with 2 optima batteries) using a 125lb heavier block, there SHOULD be a fair amount of low hanging fruit to save weight? I'd bet trimming what you have AND converting to front coil-overs and leaving the factory steering would be only 25 lbs heavier than a full-tube/rack K kit. My fiberglass decklid saved over 50lbs there should be 50-60 lbs saving on a 'glass hood. ALL side windows and rear window/back glass can be done in lexan and still be functional and LOOK 'real'. (60? lbs) Your new cage/frame work might save 25lbs...for starters

DVW has Cfibre bumper brackets but still OEM bumpers front and back. But IIRC he mentioned the OEM bumpers weren't especially heavy to justify the look he wanted. I'm sure his choice in rims isn't the lightest compared to a decent Weld rim. (non beadloc)

Just get a lithium 16 volt battery.
That's 32 lbs. Off right there.
Hopefully you have a aluminum block and heads already.

Was it Bondo Bob who used to cut the k-frame apart and tie it back together with a cm tube?

You can get quite a bit of weight off just cutting and rewelding the flange around it.

I have a Alterkation on the wagon , wheels don't stick out if you have right offset ..

Bondo Bob's master piece, excellent work

My K frame. Flanges and mounts trimmed. Tube steering box brace. Strut rods and steering shaft are tube. Center support behind grill is tube. loose the torsion bars and steering for ack and loose even more. Car currently is right around 3100 w/o me in it. All steel except the hood.
Doug

I have done the cut and trim route on a few cars. Never really quantified the savings just knew it was less and back then didnt have the cash to do anything else. We have converter a couple old GM cars to a rack but never tried it on a Mopar and not sure I want to here with the stock K anyway. If I go that far will just get rid of all of it. We do plan to go on a weight loss program with the usual stuff, holesaws where we can and not be noticeable, lightweight fasteners where possible, lighter wheels, stripping the layers of paint on it off, undercoating, lighter driveshaft, lighter seats, remove cage which is a mixture of moly and mild for all moly etc etc. Will be keeping all the glass, trim, horns, wipers and steel though. Just going to approach like a stocker build with some liberties. Woudl love to get it down to 3150-3200 with me in it and think we can get there. The aftermarket K is a consideration but as Sean pointed out I already have the stuff for a stock K in it. Well unless that pesky Hemi ends up in it in which is why I asked as no one seems to want it. In that case 3400 will be about all I can do without going crazy and still maintain "stock" sppearance.

Pic of this car?

Not really. Been busy with life and working on it the other new acquisition and the Vette have kept me busy. I did pull it out to load it up to go to Muncie last week and took a short video. Here is that

Only bad pics I have

Al! That car is awesome!

That is real nice

Tex

Beautiful '64, Al!

Wes

That car looks familiar did it come out of michigan? Al how much wght do you think you will save with after market k member? A stock member with all its v8 brackets is 37 ilbs. you can easily remove ten modifing it. after market member is 21 on the one that i weighed. so in the end you are only lighter by a couple of lbs.

Car is from the Detroit area. Has not been out and about for 7 years or so. I agree cutting and trimming what I have seems like the best way for now.

Here is a stock one that bondo Bob done.. Just for ideas

Looks like you can't use stock steering box with at K frame.
Wonder how to put a rack on it?

Yes the steering box mount is still on there

What about the torsion bars?

These K frame lightening threads are rather scary IMO.

Consider these elements for consideration of just gravity loads:

a. on a TB car, all gravity forces/etc go from the tire to the TB pivot on the K frame and then back to the chassis/frame.
b. Most cars mount the single heaviest most dense item (motor) directly to the k frame, that makes for a very efficient and short load path
c. On a motor plate TB car, the gravity forces that the motor contributes has a more convoluted (less efficient/less stiff) path back to the tires and thru the K frame.
d. On an aftermarket coil spring car the tire gravity forces go thru the upper spring mount, and the motor's gravity forces find their way back to this upper spring mount by way of a motor plate or thru whatever k frame used.

Cornering loads are way more complex, but of reduced concern for 1/4 mile applications

The amount of stiffness lost due to outer flange removal/reduction, and/or ANY crossectional reduction, in ANY plane is huge, and IMO unwise for the minor weight reduction achieved to the most critical suspension structure on a TB mopar..

Why would replacing the spot welded flange with a solid weld retaining the factory radius bother anything? With a motor plate the front frame rails now have a tied member above and below the rail. The thinner cross section in the center (it is boxed) hasn't shown any point of failure over 750 passes of use.
Doug

Was the guys name Jim? Did it have a motor done by best racing engines. If so that is the car im thinking and it is a very nice car.. good luck with your project.

Here is other one

T/B don't mount to the K-member. they go on the lower control arm

Al,

I would caution you going with the QA1 tubular deal..

If you ever plan to run the car in NSS you have to keep the torsion bars and drag link. Hence, why the lightened stock K frame is typically the weapon choice for most. I run one similar to Doug.

Just my 2 cents.

Casey FJ

Yes it was Jim's car. Just got to the point for him that he couldn't enjoy the car anymore due to some health issues. He did a great job with it and we will just take over where he left off. I have already made some changes to the engine and the car itself but the bones were very good for sure. Our plan is to take it completely apart hopefully this winter and start the process of making her better, or better said giving her the love she deserves from an appearance standpoint. Still undecided if we will keep it the same color or not. If so the interior will be switched over to blue most likely as well and if nothing changes I will likely stick the Hemi I have in it. But I would rather sell the Hemi frankly and leave this alone other than freshening it up and making some more little changes.

Casey as for the k member deal I will likely just lighten up what's there as I have done in the past. never had an issue with them done that way ever and I have done 4 to date.

1. if success is justified by number of non failures, then the Challenger was pretty successful, until launch #25.

2. Not sure if we are addressing the same concern here, mine was about removing/narrowing OEM K member flanges, and then replacing it with any weld, The spot welds are not the main issue, and with millions on the road with just spot welds, they themselves have a pretty good track record. Removing/narrowing the flanges is IMO like removing the flanges on an I beam, one can do it, but if always reduces strength/stiffness, And the outermost edge of a flange can in some cases contribute the greatest stiffness, by weight to the structure, meaning its the last place to start trimming normally.