572 B1 org Part 1-Buying Parts

This year I am building a 572 CID engine with B1 original heads.
I hope to have it in my 1993 Daytona in the fall, after all points races and the Summit Bracket Team Finals are done.
Here is my plan for posting progress:

572 B1 org Part 1-Buying Parts
572 B1 org Part 2-Component Observations
572 B1 org Part 3-Machine Shop Report
572 B1 org Part 4-Mock-ups
572 B1 org Part 5-Build Notes
572 B1 org Part 6-Dyno Results
572 B1 org Part 7-Track Testing

This is not an all out build, but rather a bracket racing motor hopefully making between 900-1000 HP.
One limiting factor will be the single 4-barrel B1 intake manifold and 4150 series Alky carb.
I plan to dyno test the engine with both a Dominator carb, and my existing Alky carb. If the engine makes 950 hp with the Dominator and 900 hp with my 4150 Alky carb, I am good with that. Please post any experiences you had for what I should expect swapping carbs.

Basic engine plan is as follows:
4.500” bore x 4.500” stroke, 14.3 CR 14.5 to 15.0 CR
I need to build headers, 2.25” tubes, 4” collectors
Cam duration 280/294 at 0.050”, 0.800” lift, 113 LSA (I have this, but may change)

More Part 1 info later...

This topic is Part 1-Buying Parts.
So far this year I have accumulated the following parts. More details on each as I post more to Part 1.

Bill Mitchell Products (BMP) aluminum wedge block.
Callies Magnum crankshaft. Part number GEQ-62J-MP.
Molnar H-beam connecting rods, 7.100” long, 2.200” rod journals.
B1 original heads.
T&D 1.7 ratio rocker arms. Part number 8013, 5/8” shaft, paired rockers per cylinder.
Titanium 10 degree retainers.
B1 cast single 4-barrel intake manifold with RB spacers.
Belt drive cam timing kit.
APD “billet” alcohol carb. 4150 body, “1000 cfm”. Currently running in my Daytona.
I plan to up size the alky fuel pump and lines since I don’t think the current Aeromotive 11203 pump will feed 950 hp on Alky.
Aeromotive lists: Free Flow Rate:150 gph. Pressure 14 psi, Inlet 3/8 NPT, Outlet 3/8 NPT

Scott Koffel told me of some UEM/Icon production pistons he helped design, that should be available in June.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
UEM/ICON Elite B1 Piston
https://uempistons.com/i-35551-icon...-head-aftermarket-block-kit-w-rings.html

# IC433CAKTS.std part number with rings
1.355 Compression height, -0.020 below stock 10.725 deck
Lateral gas porting on the top land, Top land 0.300" from top
0.043, 1/16, 3/16 ring pack, Ring Set #: 4500JS8.005
Trend Wrist pins 4130, 0.185 wall, Pin No: G9902930185
5cc dome with -12cc valve reliefs. Effective volume of -6.5cc
Anodized crown & top ring land
UltraWear M42 skirt coating

UltraWear M42 coating
-Piston skirt dry film lubricant.
-Decrease engine noise and helps protect against dry start ups.
-Applied to .0005” per side.

Anodizing
-Limits micro welding of ring to groove in severe conditions.
-Produces a very hard surface for ring to rotate on.
-Piston Crown application creates barrier from corrosive fuels.

Callies Magnum crankshaft. Part number GEQ-62J-MP
https://www.callies.com/catalog/product/magnum-mopar/

Standard Features
Average weight for a 4.500” stroke balanced to 2350g Bob. = 64 lbs.Gun drilled mains, All Rod Journals Lightened, Dual Post Keyways, Heat Treatment = Ultra Case Deep Nitride, Custom Flange Bolt & Dowel Drilling, 2.200 BB Chevy dia. & width.
Stroke_Main___Pin___ Cammed for Rod Length_Part #
4.500___2.750_2.200_ 7.100__________GEQ62J-MP

Do you have any of the parts yet?

Jim,

That’s going to be a very nice build and cool to see it all come together.
What type oiling system setup and pan?

I haven't done anything about the oil pan, but it will be a new one. I plan to use the Milodon oil pump cover that is on my Daytona now. It has a single line external pickup, and the BMP block has the AN connection for another external line. This cover also gives me the remote oil filter mount used on my Daytona.

B1 cast single 4-barrel intake manifold with RB spacers.
Not too much to say about this. It appears the previous owner cleaned up the plenum and the runner openings, but I don’t believe it is significantly “ported”. The RB spacers look like they were never used, so they will need to be matched to the intake and heads. I machined them almost to the size of the heads and intake, which are basically the same size. The openings on the heads (CNC) are 2.740” x 1.755” , divider 0.250”


I have done a preliminary mock-up with my block, head gaskets, heads, 0.060” intake manifold gasket on 1-side of the RB spacers, and a 0.030” intake manifold gasket on the other. The intake manifold dropped on nicely, the port alignment is close, and the B1 valley pan bolted to the block and head with no problems. So the previous owner of the heads milled them “correctly”. I will do a hand blending (air die grinder) to finish the RB spacers.

B1 original heads.
T&D 1.7 ratio rocker arms. Part number 8013, 5/8” shaft, paired rockers per cylinder.
Titanium 10 degree retainers.

I bought these heads from another racer that decided to go a different route. These heads are “new”. He had them CNC ported, new valves and heads “prepped”. As part of the deal, he supplied the used B1 cast intake manifold, RB spacers, used fabricated aluminum valve covers with spray bar oiling, used titanium retainers, used B1 head studs, and a new roller cam. The chambers are 60cc, intake port volume of the heads are 332cc and the exhaust ports are 125cc. The openings on the heads (CNC) are 2.740” x 1.755” , divider 0.250”. The flow sheet the previous owner gave me shows:

Pic of combustion chambers

Looks good. I know you'll do a good job with that engine and that it will work out great for you.

T&D 1.7 ratio rocker arms. Part number 8013, 5/8” shaft, paired rockers per cylinder.

I bought a new set of T&D 1.7 ratio rocker arms. Scott Koffel told me that running those rocker arms allow easier springs changes. Rotate the engine so both the intake and exhaust have lash (TDC), and remove the short shaft with both rockers without any spring pressure; Nice. But they will require elongating the pushrod holes in the heads toward the intake manifold side. The T&D catalog shows the #8013 set uses 0.080” longer rocker arms than the typical B1 single shaft per head setup. So that explains the holes needing to move toward the intake manifold, away from the valve side of the heads. And my first mock-up shows the holes do need that work, especially the intake pushrod holes. The heads originally had a 5/8” dia hole for the intake pushrod, and a 3/4” dia hole for the exhaust pushrod. The single shaft per head rockers are simpler to install/setup since they use the regular oiling from the block cam bearing, and little or no pushrod hole clearancing. Scott Koffel said many racers use them without issues.

The #8013 rockers require either pushrod oiling or spray bar oiling, since the steel rocker platform covers the oil feed from the block cam bearing. I plan to run pushrod oiling. The rockers have internal passages to feed oil to the shaft bearing, the roller tip, and a small spray hole to cool the valve springs. When I put them on my heads, the T&D height checking gage showed that using lash caps would put the shafts at the correct height for my 0,800” lift cam. Scott Koffel said lots of his racer’s use the lash caps.

I plan to run 7/16 dia pushrods, and I want the ability to use either lifters with the offset pushrod seat or the centered pushrod seat. So, I am making clearance in the heads for all that. I used a 5/8” dia endmill and moved the centerline 0.125” toward the intake manifold side. That was plenty, and if you did it with a die grinder by hand, you could remove less (with tighter pushrod clearance). Note, the intake pushrod holes are at an angle to allow the wider B1 intake port, especially the pinch point. Also, the 0.125” move is more important at the top, rocker end, since the pushrod will angle back to the same lifter location.

Molnar H-beam connecting rods, 7.100” long, 2.200” rod journals.
https://www.molnartechnologies.com/

CH7100VTB8-A - ARP2000
These are basically longer BB Chevy rods, with the Chevy width that matches how Callies made my crankshaft.
Big End Width 0.992"
Pin End Width 1.065"
Thickness above the pin 0.207" My measurement.

Total__ Big___Pin
Wt____end__end
832.0 568.0 264.0 catalog total, estimated big/small end weights
827.3 565.6 261.7 My set’s weights as shown on the box label.

I checked four sets from the same batch while I was at Todd Marsh Performance. They were all close to my weights. Likely since all were made from the same batch at Molnar (Todd ordered all the sets at one time).

APD “billet” alcohol carb. 4150 body, “1000 cfm”.
http://www.apdracing.com/billet-enforcer.html
Currently running in my Daytona.
I bought this carb in the fall of 2020 and really like the way it runs. So I plan to keep using it in the 572 CID B1 engine.
Being a 4150 carb, it has 1.75” throttle bores, and I am guessing 1.56” venturi to get the “1000 cfm” rating from APD. It has slotted mounting holes so it bolts to both 4150 and 4500 intake manifolds. On a 4500 manifold, a small spacer is needed to allow the accelerator pumps to clear the manifold. Plus I think it helps cover the big 4500 manifold opening and good gasket sealing.
This is the carb’s factory setup, and how I am running it in my current 496 CID, 452 iron headed Daytona engine. It starts good, idles nice, great throttle response, and I have not even changed jets it runs so good! LOL

166 Jets front
166 Jets rear with extensions
Blocked PV front & rear
0.028 inner (high speed) air bleeds
0.059 outer (idle) air bleeds
93 shooters front & rear

Jim, thanks for posting such detailed documentation. I’m convinced such thoroughness will ensure (a), a highly successful power plant, and (b), builds members may approach in the future. Your attention to detail is impeccable.

Thank you Jim for this write up, I will be following.

Sounds like you have a solid plan in place.

Oh yeah your not the only person who may have a 4150 on a B1

Al, can you make any comments about running a "small" carb on that engine?
Have any comparisons been done with a 4500 carb?

Bill Mitchell Products (BMP) aluminum wedge block.
https://billmitchellproducts.com/pr...0-bore-billet-caps-click-here-more-info/

BMP info Sheet.pdf

Here are some pictures for Part 1 of my posts.
I bought mine from Todd Marsh Performance on April 23rd, thanks Todd!
It is nice to have “affordable” and available Mopar aluminum blocks being made. Hopefully BMP keeps shipping more every month or so.
I will put more info/observations when I write Part 2-Component Observations and Part 3-Machine Shop Report.

Jim, I don't think you'll have any issues hitting you HP number. Thanks for documenting. I'll be following.

Thanks for the thread. This is going to be good!

i like it !!!

Im following !!!

Not trying to intrude on this post but I'm in the middle of building a 572 C.I. B1 original head pump gas motor now with a KB wedge block I got from Tim @ FHO last year.
The heads were used and came with a set of Jesel paired shaft 1.7 ratio rocker arms, I had them freshen at Slawko and still need to buy the pistons, solid roller cam and so on. I'm not sure which carb size I will run on this motor but I will test several different ones, 4150 and 4500, and see what it wants
I'm hoping for 900HP on Oregon pump swill

I was thinking you should look into the pistons I am thinking about (posted near the top of this topic). But when I saw you want to run pump gas, I am sure those pistons would give you too much CR.
I haven't even sent the block to the machine shop yet, so you likely will do carb tests before I do. I look forward to your results.

P.S. I remember an old post of yours about using 7/16" dia pushrods. And that post helpped me decide to go that route.

I'm glad I could help, thanks for letting me know

Your going to have enough cubes, and flow numbers look great so i see your goal as a done deal.

The last pump gas 572 C.I. EFI dual throttle body hemi motor I made and dyno tested didn't make 900 799.4 HP at 6500 RPM before starting down hill
I'm hoping your correct
I forgot to mention the crank in this motor is a old KB forged top fuel crank with full counter balance and stock Mopar rod journal sizes
I tried to have this crank offset ground down to BB Chevy rod journals sizes and was told no, those cranks can't be done that way, for some reason or the another

JIm, Best I can tell you right now is the car has gone 8.90's at 3450lbs in a 64 B Body. It is an NSS car that is required a 4150 carb, this one is a twin blade Book set up. Was way cheaper than a sheet metal intake a two of them

Nice. I am thinking that ET/weight should be around 1000 hp, maybe 1020?

Launch has never really been optimal. Pulling timing to get it to leave, best 60' is only 1.36 and its been 153.77. So Ill let other speculate as to the power level. But it seems to move along ok for a 540" engine.

I have a couple of sets of B1 pistons for a 4.530 bore. A couple of sets of BME aluminum rods as well. PM if interested.

I have my own crankshaft grinder, and I have offset ground a few of the fueler billet crankshafts KB, Bryant etc down to 2.2 inch. No problems at all, but I have also been into other brands that were hardchromed, and offsetgrinding one of those netted .080" offset due to the thickness of the chrome layer that had to be ground away.

How long did the T&D rockers take to get? Curious as I have a set on order.

Thank you,

Casey FJ

When I called both Koffel's and T&D, they said 5-weeks.
I was able to find a new old stock set somebody had on their shelf (never installed), and I bought those.

Ok, that is what I have been told as well....

This engine of mine may never get done!! haha

Casey FJ

I ordered a set of T/Ds for a customer on Tuesday and they said 4 to 5 weeks. In the past they are pretty good at meeting promises.

Part 1-Australian Muscle Parts (AMP) Belt drive cam timing kit.
NOTE: In Part 5 - Build Notes, I changed to a Jesel Belt Drive. So this is just for info. Part 5 - Build Notes link

This belt drive for big block Mopar has some nice features. Similar to the Jesel belt drive, with added features similar to some of the Comp Cams belt drives for GM engines. I like the gloss black coating that is easy to clean and doesn’t stain/deteriorate like uncoated aluminum.

The belt idler pulley beats the Comp Cams design. It has an eccentric center for adjustment, the Comp design has different diameter parts to do adjustment. This feature wraps the belt around the crank pulley better than without it; and minimizes belt flap in operation. The idler is located opposite the drive side (which is pulled tight in operation).

The AMP design comes with encased Torrington style thrust bearings and has no special block machining needed. The Jesel comes with thrust washers, with an optional multi-piece thrust bearing (separate needle bearing part and steel washers to run against) that requires machining the block.

The AMP design allows setting the advance/retard between the marks. This allows 3 degrees or 3.5 degrees instead of just the choice of 2 or 4 degrees. This is similar to the newer Jesel design. The older Jesel design locked at 2 degree intervals.

My only complaint is that it comes with NO installation instructions. I downloaded Jesel and Comp Cams belt drive instructions to guide me (and write my own).

The idler/belt tension adjuster is very very similar to the old Weber Small Block belt drive adjusters

Write up your instructions and offer them to the mfg for $100 or a discount on some other parts.

I don't normally make money on my "advice".
But since the manufacturer doesn't even offer instructions, that might be a way to help other users. But it would have to be a very professional set of instructions, with pictures,etc.

Jim

I was a guinea pig for the first go round of the Aussie belt drives. It went back a few times to have things "tweaked". In the end we just fixed it and had no issues after that. In fact it was sold to a member here when I was done with it. New parts blues, was on my Valiant. Oh yeah we got nothing when I bought mine as far as any instructions. I believe this is a new owner now too.

Al,
How did you set cam end play?

I'm not Al but I used used the timing cover gasket to set end play. I bought from several manufactures, I have from .010 to .080..... Cometic, SCE, Mopar, FelPro, SuperPerformance, Mr Gasket, etc

I can't remember who I bought mine from but it was from someone here on moparts probably 12 years ago, it might have been Al..lol

And Jim, you said this isn't a max performance build, but 15:1 and .800 lift cam sounds really close to max NA build..lol looking forward to reading about your build.

What Wade said...On both accounts

BTW congrats on that S/ST victory Wade!!

I figure since I am running alcohol, I might as well build a CR between 14.5 and 15.0
And B1 heads using 1.7 rockers ends up with 0.800" lift easy, IMO 0.850" would be more typical, especially for large CID engines (572-604 etc).

A more serious build should have a two four tunnel ram on it to feed the 572 CID.
Then a dry sump oiling system, vacuum pump, etc...

This isn't a street engine.... LOL

I will take a few more measurements to estimate what gasket thickness is likely to be needed. I do have a regular 0.035" and a SuperPerformance 0.047" on hand already.

Thank you sir!

I just noticed that UEM/ICON is listing a piston similar to those I bought, but for a Low deck 4.500” bore x 4.250" stroke
IC427CAKTS.STD
ICON Forged Coated Anodized Piston - Chrysler/Dodge 550ci, B1 head, aftermarket block. Kit W/Rings
Requires aftermarket block. Dome designed for Brodix B-1 heads. Gas ported. Anodized crown and top ring groove. UltraWearM42 skirt coating.

Link to UEM/ICON web site

1.305" compression height

See the pictures of my B1 pistons in Part 2 of my posts. Link to Part 2 piston post

I grind cranks, and have offset ground 3 similar cranks. One was hard chromed and ended at 4.580" stroke due to the flaking chrome layer thickness, but the others got the full stroke 4.67". Planning for a bracket motor 4,6" x 4.67" with B1 originals, just a fun-project

Jim,

I might’ve missed it, but are you planning to run a vacuum pump? I seem to remember we went belt off/belt on with my Moroso Enhanced pump on a couple pulls and it did pick up on HP with the pump. If that gas carb is good you’ll be north of your HP goal, and with how you set up your car you’ll definitely surpass your ET goal. That thing is gonna fly.

My 540 made 916HP/7300 and 732TQ/5900. 1250 Dom, 15.1 comp, and nitrous cam was 280/295@.050 .818/.819 lift on 113 lobe sep. Jesel belt drive & T&D rockers. My B1 O’s were not ported and nowhere near your flow numbers. Dwayne cleaned up the bowls, polished the chambers and gasket matched the intake ports. Best N/A it went 9.17/148 at 3475#’s, Glide, Hutch spec’d Chance Bolt Together, 4.10’s, 30” ET Streets, Ladderbars with decent surface. Definitely looking forward to seeing your initial results. When you roll up to the time-slip booth following the first pass, make sure your helmet is off and someone is there to take a photo of your smile!

Wes

Last Page

Wes...With the amount of nitrous that engine was supposed to ingest, I'm surprised ole scotty only went w/ a 113 LSA given how he loves those wide LSAs on everything.

Chip…hahaha yes. So long ago I don’t remember. Scotty picked and we went with it.

i was about to say the same thing.
dj

Wes,
Thanks for sharing the article on your B1 engine.
I don't plan to put a vacuum pump on; at least not the first year.
Your pistons do look similar to the ones I bought (lateral gas ports, small dome, large valve reliefs, top and side coatings,etc.
My heads were cut down to 60cc, and my compression ratio will be close to 15.0

The elongation of the pushrod hole in your heads is more than I initially did. I will double check with another mockup when my block comes back from the machine shop and I can put a cam in the block (they are putting the cam bearings in for me). The article mentions enlarging the "oil drain back holes" , it looks like they are the exhaust pushrod holes. Are all of them done like that or just the ends?
I am hoping to put a regular MSD billet distributor in mine. Hopefully it can be done with only a little clearancing of the head and valve cover rail.

You're welcome, Jim. The elongation.....the tapered Manton pushrods in that build made drumsticks look tiny. To answer your question I believe it was just the ends (not all) if I remember correctly. Chuck went the extra mile to ensure the oil drain back was in good order, no clearance issues, etc. Also, the fittings/lines just under the center exhaust ports, I wanted those tapped for running coolant through there from the Meziere pump to help cool down the exhaust valves area since they're so close to each other (nitrous stuff). Minimal mod with an MSD Pro BIllet distributor, but which design valve covers are you planning to use?

Sorry to hijack Jim's post, how different are the paired T&D rockers to the common shaft set up in regards to external clearances?

I made some billet valve covers years ago, I really wanted to be sure they would clear both styles of rockers, but couldn't find anyone running the paired shaft style. So I benched the project.

Part 1-Hedman Header Dyno Weld up kit. Buying Parts

Headers are both an engine and trans/converter/chassis/application part. But I am listing them in Part 1- Buying Parts.
I decided to try the Hedman Dyno Weld up header kit for the Chrysler big block wedge engine. Hopefully this will reduce the amount of cutting/fitting/welding to make headers for this engine in my Daytona tube chassis drag race car. IMO, this application could use either the 2-1/4” tubes or 2-3/8” tubes. One will favor the RPM range just above torque peak, and the larger tubes could be used for peak top RPM horsepower.

As delivered, the tube lengths are about 40” using a tape measure inside the tubes. All tubes have a long length (~6”) from the head to the first bend (for dyno applications), so they can be shortened if desired for a car. Also, there is a long (~10”) straight section in each tube before the collector, so the overall desired length can be shortened even more. Therefore, these numbers should be considered the maximum tube lengths without extensions.

The Hedman catalog says the rear tube must be cut and rotated. As you can see the #7 tube is pointing away from the engine. It appears to be the same part as the #8 mandrel bent tube. But I expect to cut/fit/weld more to route in my car’s chassis and exit where I want.

I didn’t like the flanges that came with the Hedman kit. They were a little rough cut and the port didn’t match my heads. So, I had a local Laser Cutting shop make custom flanges for me to my specs. They are 3/8” thick and the opening is shaped like my ports, and sized for a 2-1/4” tube to be inserted and welded.

What firing order is the cam? I don't think the diameters are too far off. It'd probably like 30-32", but I would run it thru pipemax and use their targets.

Standard firing order.
I haven't picked the final lengths. But was thinking 30"-32"

Are you planning on running a vacuum pump on this engine?

Not planning to. I am putting some provisions for that, like valve covers with AN12 fittings.
But the first year will not have a vacuum pump. This is not a fancy motor, no dry sump either.

One had the AN12 o-ring boss when I got them; it will use the screw-in fitting.
The other I had welded a AN12 male fitting to the top.
These have spray bars (when I got them), but I plan to only use pushrod oiling.

Post to include link to Part 2 - Component Observations
Click this link for 572 B1 org - Part 2