1978 rv 440 cam help

Hi everyone,

Here’s the situation. My Father has a 68 Barracuda drag car. Last summer, it blew a hole in the side of the block. He’s pretty discouraged, as you can imagine. His initial plan was to let the car sit until the entire year (2021), get his funds in line, and start building a new wedge engine this coming winter.

As a surprise to him, I found a running 1978 440 rv engine, and bought it. Basically, I bought it for the block as a core for a nice engine down the road. The plan at this point is to take the engine and have it overhauled/machined etc this coming winter, to have it ready for 2022.

So here’s what I’m thinking. Instead of his beautiful B5 blue Barracuda sitting there all year, I thought we could possibly put a set of Stage VI heads on (we have a set ready to go), a nice intake and Holley carb (we have both already). We already have all the parts, in other words.

I realize it would be a totally mismatched combo, and not a very good performer. A low compression 440, stage VI heads, cast crank, etc.. I’m not looking to get the maximum ET out of the Barracuda. I just thought we could put the minimum amount of cash into the RV engine, just for the upcoming season, just to run it for fun, vs letting it sit all year. Then pull it this fall and have it built into a real race engine. Money is the main issue at the moment.

My questions are: with this mismatched engine, with (supposedly) 8.3:1 cr, what would be a good cam choice?

Also, with a cast crank and stock bottom end, what would be a safe max rpm?

Again, yes, it’s a silly combination. We have a Weiand intake, a big Holley carb, stage VI heads. Everything except the cam and lifters. I’m hoping to drop it in the car so he can enjoy the car this year, realistically, probably 2 or 3 test and tunes, nothing more.

So...cam suggestions? Safe rpm? Any other suggestions, on a tight budget?

Thanks in advance.

you'll need the intake manifold spacers with those heads and a 440 block.

We have the spacers. The heads were used on a previous 440, which came with the car.

You should come up with some sort of plan now so you get a idea of what you will be spending and
what parts you can use off the other engine.. how heavy is the car and how fast are you planning

Look up Mike Jones cams he has a grind specifically designed for the motorhome engines. Talk to him about what you are doing and he can do a modern custom grind for you as well.

Is he open to you making changes to his race plans this late in the spring?
Way better to ask now and be told okay than start your deal and be told NO

The first 440 in my 68 Cuda had a 509 cam 906 heads Weind Team G, pistons .074 in the hole [TRW 2266 F}. Maybe 9/1 comp. I didn't build it. It ran 11.91 @111. I would think a nice shelf cam and maybe an SD, TM7, or Performer RPM if you can get one reasonably priced would make it fun.

Why can't you use the cam/lifters from the old motor? Spend count: $0

If you have an adjustable valvetrain, and the correct length pushrods for a solid cam, I’d go that route.

If you’re going to reuse the stock stuff, then you’re obviously looking for a hyd.

Back when MP cams were a decent deal, I would have said use the 509 cam.
Those are stupid money now.

I think you may find it a challenge to get any flat tappet BBM cam at the moment. The cam core situation isn’t good.

I’d look for something in the 280’s to low 290’s duration, .480-.520 lift range.

a cheap solid grind in the 260 at .050 range. that's what the stocker cams had, but you can have the advantage of solids. Or what Moparite said reuse the old.

Recommendations seem to be all over the place. Since cores are in short supply and budget is a priority, how about having the stock cam re-ground? We used to have that done regularly. Used to be $99 and shipping. And just to cause a real ruckus here, if the cam isn't too big and the valve springs aren't too stiff, why not re-use the original lifters? Back in the old days, we always reused the lifters if there weren't any issues with them. As long as they all rotated when cranking the engine, we never had any problems.

Thanks for the suggestions so far, everyone.

To clarify and sum it up, I basically want to drop in the stock bottom end rv 440, just so my Father can enjoy his car for a few test and tunes this summer. He’s not a serious racer at all. If I can make this work as a surprise to him, he’ll be very happy, vs the car sitting until spring 2022.

The car is 3,000lbs with him in it.

So, I have the stock bottom end rv 440. We have a set of used stage VI heads and spacers which are in great shape. We also have a Weiand Team G intake and a 750 Holley vac secondary carb. We do not have a cam or lifters. We do have a set of Crane Gold rocker arms from a previous engine, so we can either go with a solid or hydraulic cam.

I don’t really know if it’s worth going with solid lifters, as we aren’t trying to run the bottom end of this engine to death. It’s basically a core that might work for a short period. I definitely don’t want to ruin the block, and plan to keep the rpm fairly low.

Again, a lot of mis-matched parts. Not ideal. But if I can make it work for a few test and tunes without grenading the cast crank 440, I’ll be happy. This coming winter, it’ll get an actual overhaul.

I’m leaning toward a hydraulic cam, as it’d be the easiest, temporarily, and the engine won’t be wound up very high anyway.

Any other hyd cam opinions?

Also, what suggestions would everyone have as far as max rpm? Again, it’s a cast crank 440 bottom end. I’m guessing 5000rpm would be pushing it, but I’m not sure. This is such an odd scenario, very new to us.

Thanks in advance.

What pushrods do you have to go with the Crane rockers?

Hyd or solid use a different length.

I’d get a cam that would work with the pushrods you have.......unless it was a solid or hyd roller...... then you’re likely buying pushrods for any FT cam anyway.

Currently, BBM flat tappet cam cores are in short supply...... so it may come down to using something that’s available....... even if it isn’t exactly what you want.

Edit: I just checked Summit...... they’re showing a few XE grinds in stock.

I have built several of these 75-78 440 motors. My go to camshaft is a hyd from NAPA which is sealed power. The application is 78 Dodge Diplomat police car package. I have one of these motors in my brothers 62 Chrysler 300. I know for a fact its a lot heavier car than yours and it runs extremely well.Cam and lifters are around $200. Birdtracker

If you can afford a Mike Jones cam go for it, and if he can get a good core, the cam will be right. On using the RV compression, the issue on making it run is loss of cylinder pressure as you increase the lobe duration. You want to pick a cam that has a short lobe center, 106 to 108 degrees, duration should match the rpm you want to spin the block, you should be able to spin the RV stuff 5,500 all day long and 6,000rpm once in a while and it still stay together. So for a drag car, I would be looking at 230 to 240 degrees of duration. A lot of reasonable priced engine simulation programs to help you pick. I use performance trends, I pick the best grind using the program, and then talk to the cam maker to decide on an option, it has worked very well for me. I would say at most cam companies the tech support is just looking at similar software to give you a recommendation.

Jones deals with professional racers and teams, I don't think he has many shelf cams, it is a custom deal. I bought one and was very happy with it, well worth the extra cost. Jones has some very good priority software, and a lot of experience building cams, for record setting engines.

melling 23302 230 at .050 .480 lift cheap and simple, hyd.

Great information everyone, thanks.

I just looked at the Melling 23302. That looks pretty good to me, and cheap. I might check into that.

Any similar suggestions would be great.

I appreciate the recommendations for a custom ground cam, but because this is a temporary engine, I’m leaning toward something off the shelf, like the Melling 23302.

Also, any thoughts on the Melling cam above vs a Hughes Whiplash?
I read the whiplash is designed specifically for low compression engines.

Thoughts?

I'm guessing the main difference is a whole lot more money

I run a Hughes 440whiplash in a bone stock 78 MH 440 83,000miles + 40,000miles on new cam/lifters in my 88 truck. Holley 650DP/holley street dom intake/headers 3" pipes/mufs front of axle dumps. 40,000 street miles now! it is awesome in traffic as a daily driver

modified carb and locked the dist setting timing @32* those 2 things made it a street friendly beast and it has the stock RV verter and I have run a 2.76 3.23 3.91 with a M/T 29/15/15 on a 12" rim.

I remember the speed shop laughing and saying no way that cam is going to work with low CR/non-adjustable rockers/stock TC/ 2.76 gear. just as advertised. has a nasty choppy idle like a funny car, scares everyone at the gas pump, idles 25mph @ 1000 rpm in 3rd gear through town, has good street drivability with light throttle response smooths out about 1800 and will rev right up to 6000rpm on a good WOT throttle blast.

the valvetrain does have a lot of noise and Hughes said it would at the git go, I use a good high zinc oil and let it clatter. again 40,000 miles so far no issues at all.

this past weekend I modified the holley 650 to a 850 throttle plate squared up the airbleeds/jetting and converted it to a 4 corner idle. gained a huge throttle response. PV blocked with 77/83 jets.

IMHO, not the best or fastest cam for a 440 BUT for a 4000# truck with a lopo 440 stock valvetrain,TC and some 2.76 gears on 87 pump gas it sure is fun to drive in traffic and sitting at a red light while it chops bucks then blast right off the line is awesome!

biggest comment I get or ? asked is about valvetrain noise. I smile giggle and just say it has a square 3/4 race lobes.

my 85 step side I run a whiplash 5.2 roller cam in my 88 pre-magnum roller cam 318, another great daily driver cam. run this one in a couple engines with small pre-mag #302 heads and pre-mag 360 heads.

86 4x4 has the 89 pre-mag 318 it has the 5.9 whiplash roller cam with #302 heads home pocket port back cut on valves works great and has a little more chop than the 5.2 whiplash.

I am putting together a 91 318 with 714 # heads but have upped the valves to 1.88/1.60 with 3 angles on intake and 5 angles on exhaust with a gasket match and bowl clean up. block bored .060 making it about 12 cubes shy of 340 cubes. I wager the 5.9 will like the bigger vales and port velocity.

I would say I am hooked on a whiplash cam when it come to a bone stock long block SB or B/RB engines.

0.02$

OH! on a side note disclaimer... on the SB roller whiplash cams. Hughes said they have NOT or can NOT recommend this cam in a pre-mag engine as it is for a 92-93 5.2 magnum engine. they have no info on this set up or any results. all my first hand experience and results. all good and great longevity. almost 300,000 miles on my first whiplash roller cam. been in 3 pre-mag engines for total of daily miles.

I also use a comp 901-16 spring on all of the whiplash SB rollers cams which they would not recommend. I have had no issues or valve float with them and run them hard and many miles.