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Removing alum block cylinder sleeves

Posted By: hemienvy

Removing alum block cylinder sleeves - 04/07/21 01:01 AM

How is it normally done, block goes in an oven ?
How hot ?
How do you grab the sleeve to pull it out ?

Putting sleeves back in is different, I think, don't the sleeves get super cooled
and block stays at room temp ?
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Removing alum block cylinder sleeves - 04/07/21 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by hemienvy
How is it normally done, block goes in an oven ?
How hot ?
How do you grab the sleeve to pull it out ?

Putting sleeves back in is different, I think, don't the sleeves get super cooled
and block stays at room temp ?

Which brand and type aluminum block? Race or street block?
Most aluminum race blocks, water cooled blocks, are design to have the sleeves replaced at the races with a sleeve puller, same thing I think on the newer billet race blocks with steel or iron sleeves shruggy wrench
I'm not sure on the street aluminum blocks confused blush
Posted By: hemienvy

Re: Removing alum block cylinder sleeves - 04/07/21 01:51 AM

Hi Cab,
I didn't think it made a difference what brand of block, except maybe wet sleeve blocks, those I know nothing about.
In fact I thought they get installed with some kind of lube, they are a press fit in the block but not a super tight press fit,
or so I thought.
I don't see how you could press them out since you can't get to the bottom edge of the sleeve.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Removing alum block cylinder sleeves - 04/07/21 05:15 AM

The race wet blocks have a provision machined in the sleeves to be removed and replaced with a sleeve puller.
I use to see it at the Winternationals years ago before the billet blocks replaced the race water blocks, the good pit guys could have them out and the new one in place in under 10 minutes thumbs
Posted By: JERICOGTX

Re: Removing alum block cylinder sleeves - 04/07/21 08:35 AM

Bore the sleeve until it’s paper thin, then pull it out by hand.
Posted By: jwb123

Re: Removing alum block cylinder sleeves - 04/07/21 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by JERICOGTX
Bore the sleeve until it’s paper thin, then pull it out by hand.


That is how my machinist does it. If it is an aluminum block, sometimes you have to get a replacement sleeve a few thousandths bigger in the outside diameter to compensate for warpage of the block, during replacement.
Posted By: hemienvy

Re: Removing alum block cylinder sleeves - 04/07/21 01:24 PM

Wow, I guess I was thinking the sleeves were reusable, apparently not !
Posted By: Chief

Re: Removing alum block cylinder sleeves - 04/07/21 04:29 PM

Let me share my .02 worth of knowledge..

On my KB solid block the sleeves are pressed in with something like .005 interference fit. On a water block if the sleeve is against the water it has to be sealed at the top and bottom, if it is a dry sleeve it is like my KB. Indy water block is dry sleeve and it is interference fit.
I helped replace a sleeve in a Allen Johnson Billet block ina TD car, sleeve was frozen overnight, I stood with a weed burner torch in the hole to heat the block then sleeve was started and a 20 lb sledge used with a block of wood to drive it in.
I asked the question why didn't the engine have to get machined afterwards. I was told the sleeve (Darton) was bored and honed at the factory for that blocks measurements and when if was put in it would have the correct bore and finish.
Guess what? Piston went in with the correct clearance car set a new TD record the following weekend. eek

And that's about the extent of my knowledge other than my Indy block is having 3 sleeves replaced after the damage is repaired..lol

Dave
Posted By: Chief

Re: Removing alum block cylinder sleeves - 04/07/21 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by hemienvy
Wow, I guess I was thinking the sleeves were reusable, apparently not !


Not usually put back in the same block. I bought 8 sleeves from a guy that were a bigger OD than what was in my KB block. I had the block bored to accept the sleeves, then bored the sleeves to 4.5.
Original sleeves were 4.375 but were to thin to bore to 4.5, so I had to go bigger OD.

Dave
Posted By: RBRE

Re: Removing alum block cylinder sleeves - 04/07/21 05:36 PM

We have a large kiln we can heat the blocks in. Heat to 250 degrees for an hour. Remove block and the sleeves fall out onto the floor. Sometimes just a hot jet wash will do the trick. I have also seen people use a torpedo heater. To install the sleeves we heat the block to 250 degrees and use a Coleman cooler that can hold eight sleeves standing on end and fill the sleeves with dry ice pellets. Costs about $25. Leave in cooler for ½ hour. Wear welding gloves and the sleeves just drop into the block even if it’s an iron block. Doesn’t distort other cylinders. No sledge hammers required.
Ray Barton
Posted By: W.I.N. Racing

Re: Removing alum block cylinder sleeves - 04/08/21 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by RBRE
We have a large kiln we can heat the blocks in. Heat to 250 degrees for an hour. Remove block and the sleeves fall out onto the floor. Sometimes just a hot jet wash will do the trick. I have also seen people use a torpedo heater. To install the sleeves we heat the block to 250 degrees and use a Coleman cooler that can hold eight sleeves standing on end and fill the sleeves with dry ice pellets. Costs about $25. Leave in cooler for ½ hour. Wear welding gloves and the sleeves just drop into the block even if it’s an iron block. Doesn’t distort other cylinders. No sledge hammers required.
Ray Barton

iagree Not that you need my vote of approval. I have both KB block(s) and an Indy block. Sleeves in the KB are "O" ring fit water blocks (run dry) and basically pop in and out with minor effort. I have yet to need to pull a liner on the Indy block but as stated above and since Alum expands and absorbs heat (in this case) at twice the rate of steel I would imagine that when un-constrained by the cylinder head they would essentially drop out of the block when heated.

Attached picture sleve puller.gif
Posted By: rickseeman

Re: Removing alum block cylinder sleeves - 04/08/21 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by hemienvy
Wow, I guess I was thinking the sleeves were reusable, apparently not !


They were back in the days of "wet sleeve" blocks. Now it's done as Ray described.
Posted By: JERICOGTX

Re: Removing alum block cylinder sleeves - 04/08/21 01:43 PM

Here is a picture of the sleeves that were damaged in my block. One had a dent from the rod hitting it. It would not have come out with heating it up, and why it was machined out.

Attached picture sleeve.JPG
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