ladder bar safety restraints-ideas needed

i don't have room for the type of restraints that are a flat "C" shape that bolts onto tabs welded onto the upper and lower bars.
any other ideas out there ? alston used to offer a couple of tabs that welded to the bar sides with spacers that allowed the bolts to be tightened up and still allow the bars to rotate, but i can't find them now.
i may be looking in the wrong place, or calling them by the wrong name.
as always, TIA fellows !

This what you are looking for? Looks like there are a couple kits.
http://www.cachassisworks.com/c-419-ladder-bar-hardware.aspx

that's it !
i was looking under alston, not chassis works.
thank you sir !
i'm pretty sure i can use those. the only thing that may screw me up, is if the bolt is 3/4", as i need a set for a 5/8" bolt. i'll call them to find out.
thanks again !

No problem. Instructions says 5/8" bolts are included.
http://www.cachassisworks.com/Attachments/Instructions/916238.pdf

My car is an Alston chassis. That is the type of ladder bar ends on it. Work good....

Me too. I like them.

They work great and don't take a lot of room. Hope you never need them..

I used the Alston kit, but had the inside machined to allow for adjustment.

6289_AT by Greg Ault, on Flickr

P1010002 by Greg Ault, on Flickr

P1010005 by Greg Ault, on Flickr

Maybe too much adjustment there?

hmmm. never thought of that.
i would think a guy should use a tab on both sides of the bar ?
but two kits ? but then, you would have to modify a wrench to tighten the lock nut ? [get the wrench between the tabs]

Hmmmm never new they were suppose to be welded ,must have miss that part.

This thread has me thinking ...how often do you all replace the hems on you ladder bar cars? I have a friend that has a 4.70-4.80 car and i remember him saying he replace his every year(i thought that was over kill)am i wrong?.......I did not start a new thread so i thought i'll piggy back off this one sense it's slightly off subject.

Kinda defeats the purpose... you basically took most if not all the strength out of the tab. I use these on all my ladder bar installs, I don't weld them on until the rear end is set in place.
As far as heim replacement goes, it really depends on the use, higher HP and amount of used dictate. even then its a crap shoot.

On ladder bars the Heim can be solid (no rotating) so why wouldn’t the strap add to the heim strength? Then you would literally have to break the end of the bar off.. straps, heim, bolts, all

Lots of interesting replies. The purpose of the restraint is to keep the bar from disconnecting from the car (possibly damaging the track) when the heim fails. Yes, you can run 2 of the Alston restraints on either side of the heim if you're NOT running a diagonal link. I don't see much of a difference between this type of restraint and the traditional (but more bulky) restraint in front of the heim.



P1010005 by Greg Ault, on Flickr

not a problem X !
my concern for adding these safety restraints is in the event i get this [never ending !] project done, and end up with an engine that will tax the rod ends, i don't want the possibility of a "pole vault" event if the rod end breaks. especially at speed.
with that said, and your question about rod end replacement, is it possible to miss a shank thread starting to fail, yet still have no movement or wear in the ball and head of the joint ?

Of the few I’ve seen broken it just sheared off, the reason Alston went to the 1” diameter solid end. If you need the swivel type your whole setup is out of square.

I would hate to think a bad single thread would make for a bad day i mean those shanks go pretty far done in those bars.

I would imagine a high horsepower /heavy car/hooking track can put a lot of stress on those hems.

Everything goes through those ends

I have used the Chris Alston Solid heim joints on my heavy car for a lot of years. I just keep a lot of heavy grease on them and they still look like new. I do have the weld on safety straps on them but so far knock on wood they have been great.

To continue my previous post. I feel the Alston side strap is superior to the transitional safety strap (surround) due to its ability to fit in a tighter space and strength (more material). The traditional strap may be fine in a leaf sprung/floater set up but in a coil over set up the safety strap is the only protection you have from a very very bad day. The side strap when placed properly will allow removal of the Heim joint and should not cause interference with the mounting point.
As far as replacement of joints the rule of thumb I was told (40 yrs ago) was every two seasons. This could be translated into a certain number of passes and become more important in a coil over/ladder bar set up. With regard to solid vs swivel type joint usually the solid type joints are at the axle end of the bars not the leading end. This would facilitate the side to side rotation that occurs when there is chassis roll. A solid front joint would wear quickly if used in the leading position.

How will a chassis roll with ladder bars? UNLESS the chassis or bars are flexing, it’s a solid platform.

https://content.speedwaymotors.com/...2a075b13-5e16-41de-88e5-c0d40318cdec.jpg



SO.......how doer this type of restraint use to prevent the failure of a joint?The round end that's on the front of the bar. Does it get welded to the frontend of the ladder bar it looks to be removable(bolt)

To keep the axel from going out the back, not much movement forward either, just containment

That dont prevent the failure of the joint. All it does is keep the ladder bar from moving back on the failed side.Just a safety measure to keep it from messing up a ton of stuff it the heim joint fails..

Thanks

my thinking of the solid versus swivel joint position as well. this thing [if it EVER gets done] will see some street time, so i'm going to replace the solid front joints with the best joints available. i like the ones with the nylon or whatever the material is used. i also have some of those super thin washers that keep grit out of the joint i will be using.
i also changed out the diagonal bar to 1" x .125 wall with mounting brackets attached to the driver's side front joint and the passenger's side rear joint. i'm using 5/8" heims on both ends. overkill for sure, but i don't want them to break. the brackets on the rear will be triangulated to the rear tubes to ensure strength.
my space is limited at the front of the bracket, as these pics shows during the chassis mock up, thus my reason for posting this question. the front mounting is hard to see. sorry for the poor quality.

Just remember every pot hole, speed bump, corner turn, braking-acceleration goes thru those two joints. A friend has had his 46 Ford on the street for over 25 years with ladder bars so they can last I guess

I agree that safety restraints and rod end maintenance are a must. I will add that every time I have seen a rear end come out from under a car it did not have the ladder bars on it. They all had 180 degree brackets on the rear end and the weld failed. I only use 360 degree brackets or split ones like pictured in this post with a strap to box them. Just something else to think about.

Given the stresses placed on this part , if you use anything less than the absolute best you are not right in the head.
As far as the restraint , either one should keep you on your tires and prevent tearing up parts.
The notion that the anti roll properties of a ladder bar with solid joints eliminates the need to use an anti roll bar..............well , yeah and nah.
The stresses will be absorbed somewhere.
And transferred into motion...........maybe in places that you don't want any.
Using an anti roll bar gives you some measure of control over those forces , and that feature alone is enough to make it worth thinking over.

an anti-roll bar is definitely in the mix for this thing. not shown in my pics are the mounting places already there, but the bar size, arms and end links haven't been done yet.
the front bar mounts are 360 degree brackets, 1/4" thick, that will be boxed in with straps and tied into the chassis rail sides.
the rear brackets came as 180 degree pieces, but will be turned into 360 degree pieces tied into the shock mounts, as well as boxed in and have 1" tube bracing to the rear end tubes.
it may be a weight penalty, but will be [hopefully] a super strong mounting system.
even the upper shock mounts are boxed and made of 1/4" material in a double shear attachment.