Jesel Rockers for Indy EZ325, Opinions?

Ok, I am not going to get into the 5's the easy way I guess...Anyone running Jesel rockers with Indy EZ 325's? Got pics, and price? How do you oil with these?

I put Jesel rocker arms on my EZ heads but my heads were the base EZ, not the 325. I had to build my own Jesel kit since nobody sold a kit for the EZ head. The 325 should have the offset rocker arms so you should be able to use a -1 Jesel kit. I used 16 exhaust rocker arms and then custom built some spacers to get it all lined up correctly.

This setup worked great on my 514. I picked up a ton of power switching to high ratio rocker arms and the correct cam. Made so much power I cracked the block and had to step up to a Mopar block. That was back when you just called the dealer and a new block showed up in a few days.

I had a lot of failures over the years with Jesel offset rockers. I suspect two things added to my problems versus other guys. Loose lash might be the biggest problem. My method was to set them with a very light drag-WHICH I NOW BELIEVE TO BE WRONG. So now i set them about .002 tighter plus .006 tighter for setting them cold , and a drag that us quiet heavy. So for .019 hot lash setting i set them at .011 cold. Those little needle bearings on the adjuster side of the intake rockers don't live a decent life if treated poorly with looser than spec lash and agressive cams and or a poor spring choice. DO NOT run an offset rocker that uses a C clip running against the needle bearing cage. Side loads eventually crush the bearing cage and destroy the bearings. The oil pump doesn't digest those little parts well and i guess i don't have to paint a full picture of the total carnage that can result. Instead special order your (intake only) rockers with the sides polished and order .030 shims (washers) from Jesel to locate your rockers. It took 2 shims on the adjuster side of my set and 1 on the other side to end up with them centered and i wound up with .006 to .010 side clearance so oil can get to the bearings. Run pushrod oiling and bushed rollerlifters( no needle bearings!) for the same reason.
Personally i suggest a cam profile with lobes that are known to be somewhere between an endurance design and a bit more agressive design to keep everything happy and the shock loads down to a tolerable level. If you want to go fast, the add a little duration to allow lots of lift , a high ratio rocker on the intake (1.7 min) and run a real loose converter to match.

I suggest comparing T&D and Jesel before you decide.
T&D should be able to supply either typical shaft rockers (one shaft per head), or their paired rockers (one short shaft per cylinder, like Jesel).
I used the later style on my Indy CNC 440-1 heads.

Indy web site has price sheet.
Indy Price Sheet link

tdmach.com
T&D website link

The paired rocker system can be ordered for pushrod oiling, or spray bar oiling.
I used pushrod oiling.
I believe the spray bar rockers have completely different oiling holes.

My current bracket 400 stroker motor with 440-1 heads came with a set of Jesel 1.55 ratio paired shaft rocker arms, I set the heads up with 325 Lbs. on the seats and 825 Lbs. over the nose.
I installed each pair of rockers one set at a time with the pistons at TDC on the firing stroke, once I got all eight pairs installed that stupid motor shocked the heck out of me on how easy it rotated after breaking it away with the spark plugs out I could not feel those valve springs at all
I'm still not sure if it was just the rocker set up or the cam or both
I'm going to use either T&D steel or Jesel steel paired shaft rockers on my new B1/MC headed motor

I started off with spray bar oiling but had issues with burning pushrod cups so I eventually used both spray bar and pushrod oiling in my 514. That solved the problem for me.

My INDY SR rockers have served me well for 20 years, but it was time for a upgrade. My T&D rockers finally arrived on Friday. These are going on my SR heads.

My intake rockers

The real problem is that you have to machine the heads for the Jesel rocker arms and it is a bit of a trick. Indy won't provide you with the machining instructions but Jesel might. If you do it yourself or have a local shop do it they'll need to build a fixture to hold the heads on the mill. You can send the heads to Jesel for the machine work or maybe you can send them back to Indy. I would imagine that someone like Best Machine could also do the conversion for you. I did it myself since back then everyone told me it couldn't be done. Jesel didn't have a kit for the EZ heads and Indy told me they weren't interested in putting Jesel rockers on the EZ head. I figured it out by myself but it took some time.

I've had the paired T&D on my -1 motor for 8 years, 700 + passes. They were purchased used. Except for a couple of brineled shafts which I believe were my own mistake they've been golden. Shafts were easily available $23. Pushrod oil. Lash stay consistent between checks. I love them
Doug

My guess is, between buying a new Jesel set up, removing the heads, having the heads modified to use them, plus the spray bar oiling, and the gaskets to reassemble everything, plus a new set of pushrods....... you’re looking at about a $2500 bill.

If you already have lifters that facilitate pushrod oiling, you can probably pass on the spray bars.

Years ago, Best machined a set of W5 heads for Jesel rockers for me. It wasnt expensive, and was well worth the effort. The rockers, geometry, reliability was/ is superb. That set of rockers is still in service 15 odd years later.

Huge chunks of metal could be safely removed from some of those.
Then why didn't they do that?
Increased production cost (more machining operations), but the real factor is that the excess material is so close to the shaft center that the inertia reduction is really small.

I would like to see an FEA though. The diagrams are easy to interpret, the industry has settled on "red = bad, yellow = needs work, blue = good to go". The ideal rocker is really thin in surprising places, taller than you might guess, and shows nothing but blue all over. The "art" part is how you stress the rocker, and how much, intuition helps you figure what it might do wrong (and is therefore stressed out of its plane of strength).

There is next to nothing of the arms used in Nascar racing, most people would be amazed really.

If you really want to spend money go with Jesel Steel rockers IMO T&D is as good if not better than Jesel. Usually at a lower price point. But when you need custom stuff Jesel seems more willing to do them than T&D.

Oh yeah, always sucks when a plug gets blown out of the head..

That center span would be even taller & thinner but for valve cover clearance.

Jesel pro- steel rockers - and FEA is a little more complex than just three colors..........

Personally, I miss my Comp steel rockers. I would love to get back to steel one's with a pinned roller in them and a bronze bushing. I do not like needle bearings in motors....Such a simple concept, yet...Nobody makes them to fit these heads. Now the Jesel Steel, those look to be a thing of beauty for sure, and no needle bearings of any kind......What do a set of those run?

FEA is a little more complex than just three colors

Show me

Those are really nice. NASCAR used to run steel rocker arms to save weight. They didn't need a ton of strength since the spring rate with a flat tappet cam wasn't huge, but they wanted the least possible weight. I've seen some of that stuff before but never had any of it on my own engines. I'm not even sure if they make the Pro Steel stuff for Mopar wedge engines. I think it is primarily for the high winders and Chevy engines.
https://www.jesel.com/pro-steel-series-shaft-rockers

The range of colors is nothing more than a visual representation of the output data range – High to Low. If you don’t understand the input parameters and results – then looking at the picture is as useful as looking at a coloring book. – change the output range red can become orange, yellow green and yes even blue. But since you know everything – you should already know that …..

I'm sorry you did not understand what I wrote, but it does explain your remark.
Was your point to demonstrate your lack of manners?
We already knew that.

It would be an interesting exercise, and that is to put some rocker arms through some topology optimisation software and 3D print the arms.