What is the ideal Street/Strip Engine these days?

Curious what everyone's thoughts are?

Is it a G3 stroker or blown stroker? Is it the old standby BB wedge stroker? Is it one of those Nascar engines? is it a W9 Ritter stroker?

I look at what the Chebby guys have, and they have a good bit of choices over us in the Mopar crowd...Seems ever year that goes by there are less and less options for us.

Is an $8000 block the only way to make good Hp these days?

There would be no problem with any of the available mopar engines running reliably in the 9 second range with efi, dis& turbo.
I personally would like to get my hands into a gen3 with a centrifugal blower. Putting together something else right now though. Someday...

Mostly i think it comes down to how quick you want to go . And how motor fits your car .
Big block stock stroke with reasonable rpm will last well in stock block . Aluminium is $ and iron are thin on the ground . Is Bulldog still releasing blocks ? What happened to Callies ?
Small block seems even harder to deal with than big block .
Gen3 seems ok , but you see guys moaning about lack of good blocks even now . Plus decision of efi or carb .
I have 2 rb motors now , one a factory 440 and 1 a World 505 . The 440 short has been together since 2007/8 with a couple different cams and heads . It has gone 10.70@3690 , World is below . Stock block stroker lasted about 18 months before splitting block .
Is that quick enough ?

Tex

IMO anything you can replace the bottom end from a junkyard easily. No machine work, just something you can beat on over the weekend and then drive to work but not worry about. Less exotic the better, and plenty of stock LS or G3s making great power out there.

I messaged callies this past week and new blocks are right around the corner from what I was told. Their sister company has pics posted on Facebook of new hemi blocks being machined.

For me it would be a screw blown/supercharged Gen III Hemi.

Retain all streetability, valve train stability, on pump gas.

Change pulleys, load EFI tune and add race gas ...go 8s in an A body.

The LS clowns have been doing this for ages. Ill take an OEM Gen III block over any OEM SBM or BBM block any day of the week for power handling ability.

Not cheap, but then again, what is?

Plus more aftermarket goodies are coming by the day.

For sure a Gen III hemi. I like to use Ray Meyer's Barracuda as an example. 426CID pump gas 9.7s Naturally aspirated on Drag Week in 2016. Just the ET alone is impressive to me but he DIDN'T TOUCH IT ALL WEEK, he unloaded his trunk everyday and got in the lanes.

I constantly struggle with the idea of selling this R1 W2 engine and going Gen III.

But…...isn't working on these dinosaurs the fun part of it?...…….Lol .

Gen III 6.4 BGE with a big turbo!

A local guy has a Dart with that combo. He's been an easy 5.16 in the 1/8th and drives it to work all the time...

...that's a great point!

All around me the go-fast guys are running turbos or super-charged motors, none of them are Mopar. Heck, my daily driver is a turbo and I can't lie to you, it's a boat-load of fun.

BUT

Part of the reason for me to be engaged in the hobby was (and still is) the ability to affect the outcome with my know-how and by being very hands-on. Not to say going non-NA isn't that, but somehow it feels like that route would take away some of that.

For that reason, a go-fast approach for me would be to build a blown motor. Heck, that's the plan for my '81 coupe...

Gen III Hemi all the way. Talking to companies at the PRI show last year, they feel it’s the next LS. Holley is already talking about “going all in” over the Hemi. Buying a complete Hellcat setup is really easy today too. A lot of companies will sell you a complete pallet with everything you need to drop it in. Imagine having a 700 hp Hellcat motor in an a-body and hitting the remote starter on the red key in the staging lanes for giggles.

10 Reasons You’re Better Off With a Big-Block Ford
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/cheap-ford-big-block-460-10-reasons-jon-kaase/

Leave that crap at YellowBullet.

WHY!!
Are you afraid to talk engines?

[/quote]

I messaged callies this past week and new blocks are right around the corner from what I was told. Their sister company has pics posted on Facebook of new hemi blocks being machined. [/quote]

Well i hope that comes to fruition . There is so many guys who seem to be looking to obtain a stronger base and retain their current program/structures

Tex

Well that sounds promising....I like their parts.

Holley Moparty (mopar version of LS fest)

https://www.moparty.com/

The Hellcrate is still a little more expensive than a 700 hp big block but it isn't a lot more. A 700 hp big block using a factory block and all new parts is usually in the $15,000 range. A Hellcrate is probably close to $20K by the time you buy the front end kit and the install kit plus the various swap parts. A Hellcrate should be more streetable than the average 700 hp big block. Typically a big block will need a roller cam to get into the 700 hp range so then you have some wear issues and a bronze gear and stuff like that. You can build a fairly streetable 700 hp big block with EFI and the correct cam choice but the cost goes up. If you are going to drive the car a lot then the Hellcrate is probably the best choice, especially if you go with the matching transmission.

If I was starting from scratch I would be going with the Gen III Hemi stuff. I don't think we are far off on seeing the aftermarket really get behind it.

I have my money tied up in Dodge R5P7 stuff, which I liquidated my W8 stuff to go over to. I won't be changing any time soon.

i messaged them this morning . Wedge blocks at end of this year , look to be 4.320 bore finished need hone @ $US4500.00 .
If this happens i can see a lot of happy racers . And if usable for STK/SSTK even more .
I really dont see a lot of guys who have invested/bought specific stuff junking it and swapping to a new platform

Tex

I like and build 400 block stroker motors for street and strip up to 750 HP N/A with a single four barrel
I have built several blown (426 type) Hemi motors as well as several other blown BB and SB Chevy motors Money talks, make the customer happy
I haven't been able to make as much HP per C.I. with a N/A gen 2 426 Hemi motors as I have with a wedge with B1 heads, why I don't know
Most people have never had a 600 HP pump gas motor, let alone 700+ HP on pump gas
HP can hurt you and your car if you don't know how control that type HP on the street
No hands on with the latest gen 3 Hemiroid motors, yet
I'm hoping my next N/A race gas or E85 B1-MC bracket race motor will make north of 1000 HP, well north like closer to 1100 HP
The key to making power is the top end, heads, intake, carbs, exhaust and cam and valve train
But to go as fast as you can you have to get the car perfect from the front bumper bolts to the rear bumper bolts

877 WHP turbo $250 junkyard 2006 5.7 hemi

Do you really believe that you can buy one turbo for $250.00? Let alone build a complete motor like his for $250.00?
To many story like this will make some decent people chase the wrong path to HP

The engine is $250 from the junkyard, stock bottom end, ARP head studs, gapped rings for boost (same the LS guys have been doing for years), $75 transmission, $100 rear diff. Turbos are chinese knock-off cheapies from eBay, I'd be mad too if I had tens of thousands tied up in some car (that still breaks) and that dakota whooped me.


BTW just checked, the turbos are $319 each.

9.60 @ 143 first time to the track, quicker every pass, kicked out for no cage or license

1st i didnt read it on yb 2nd i thought it was an interesting look at a ford

The gen 2 hemi is defenetly the best street strip combo. Super easy to make big power, durability, drivability, high revving fun combined with stump pulling torque, looks great under the hood, low overall cost of ownership.

Haha, yes, low overall cost is hitting hard right now.

Do the cost anaasys, and include resale value. Gen 2 hemi wins

You Hemi guys are FUNNY 😄

Well I'm used to LS engines so buying pushrods at $40 a piece is something new for me.

boosted LS? I mean honestly the Gen III hemi is a nice engine, but be prepared to spend 3x as much. I guess any boosted engine would work. It depends on your goal and your wallet.

love the truck but 'aint now way (unless he owns the yard) you can build a 9 second motor that cheap.

You can buy a bulldog block no problem (pre rona), I got one in jan, took 23 days from 1st call to sitting in my garage.

Joe

The "cost-is-no-issue" answer is: the ideal street/strip engine is any Gen 3 Hemi minus the 4700 pound Turd they come in. If that whole drivetrain can last the warranty period in those heavy boats imagine how long they will last in a car weighing 1500 pounds less?

Cost being an issue? Turbo any $400.00 Magnum small block with a high-quality turbo, beat the daylights out it and replace it a year or two later with another $400 engine. You could literally do it 20 times for the cost of a Gen 3 if you are not afraid of work.

It surprises me how so many people are so quick to condemn a 440 buildup if it utilizes a stock block b/c it's a "grenade waiting to go off" due to the weak block.
But...so many praise a stock junkyard engine w/ a Chinese ebay turbo.
Both can be cheap and fast, but both also have drawbacks as far as reliability.

Is the 5.7 in the Dakota an earlier or later engine, and was the 877 still on pump gas? Either way I'm glad someone tried opening the ring gap and pushing it, not sure if others have as I don't follow super close, but its neat that someone tried it and told the world. Maybe it won't live long at 877 WHP, but if it will take that it will probably live a while dialed back to 600 WHP, especially if they added meth injection or used 110+ fuel. The fact is even if the G3 won't live at 500 or 600 RWHP with the cheap turbos there are other guys doing it with LS junk yard engines. And you could put forged pistons in the 5.7 for another 1K and eliminate that as the weak point. I wish I could find a G3 for 250 bucks though, THAT is the part I find un-realistic.

Even if they dialed that all the way back to 500 WHP, which it made on 5 PSI, you're likely going to have a lot into any NA engine to make that power, 440, Hemi, G3, or otherwise. You could always boost a 440 though. Or spray it. The funny thing is the stock G3 Hemi has a stronger block and supposedly weak pistons, the 440s block isn't as strong but I bet those OEM pistons could take a ton of abuse. The real problem for a budget build is the nature of a 50 year old engine is you're just not likely to find a good 440 cheap. Although I see people asking 2K for G3s on ebay anyway, so maybe the typical cost closer than it would seem. One day there won't be any LS truck engines in the junk yard either, and there won't be any junk yard turbo 5.3s either.

I think the answer really depends on the budget, and what you define as ideal. If I needed an aftermarket block and/or was going to spend 15K or more I'm with Joel, I would go G2 Hemi.

Also where is someone getting the 5.7 for $250? Is that typical? What is the going rate for a junk yard 5.7 near everyone else? It seems to be like 2K near me.

You're right, but the 440 block still makes me a bit nervous. After tearing down my no where near 600 HP 440 and finding evidence of cap walk I'm more concerned about 440 block strength than I used to be. I had "too much timing" in it for a bit though, even though I never heard audible detonation.

One big advantage for the modern boosted stuff that I think is often overlooked is how much easier and safer it is to achieve a safe tune, and how much safer and optimal that tune might be. The knock sensors start picking up knock way before you will ever hear it, so you end up putting way less stress on everything, block included. And the ECU will pull some timing if it starts to hear knock. At 600 WHP just a little might be all it takes to break a cast or hyper piston, but at least you've got a chance. A safe tune up on a carb'd, boosted 440? Its anyone's guess, check the plugs, but are you borderline already? So the tuner probably leaves it safe and leaves a few degrees of timing on the table, but that could be 100 HP. Or he gives you the 100 HP and you split the block.

Someone on here had posted that they had installed a knock sensor on their 440 and made over 1000 HP boosted with the stock block, I don't remember who though, or if it was filled/girdled, or how much abuse it held up to.

engine masters did a old smoking 440 with trick flow heads with a blow thru turbo set up made 650ish torque @ 3900 rpm , 590 hp @ 5300

If I were starting over and could afford it I'd use all Gen 3 stuff, n/a or boosted. If I couldn't afford the Gen 3 I'd go junkyard LS.

Well get new glasses, because you just saw it

Engine had 265,000 miles on it - still does, why it was $250 and its an early version 06 (15 years old). The 5.7 heads out flow the 5.3 LS so its going to do almost everything better, not to mention more cubes. Cheap 5.7's aren't hard to find guys, been building them en masse since 2003. Gap rings, head studs, bearing if you care and let it eat.

The in car video of him driving it and getting on it did not impress me at all
Do you know how much they had detuned it down after he tested it?
I've had a bunch of street and strip cars, from mid 12.s to my current 2850 Lb. S/P car that runs high 8s at 150.+ MPH in the 1/4.
My last pump gas car, (3450 Lb. with me in it) Duster ran 10.00s a bunch of times through the muffs with the air cleaner on That motor made 727 HP with 680 Ft. Lbs. torque
It was a hoot to drive on the street, I had to be real careful whenever I went to WOT

You've had some bad azz rides and very quick, its just gotten easier. A G3 hemi head flows more than any traditional sb/bb, 392 6.4 outflows a G2 426. If guys like you tinkered with a gen 3 we could get this really moving.

This kid seriously has me reconsidering my BB's. I'm tempted to pull the trigger on a couple Gen 3's and selling all of my BB stuff.

Prices in my area...

I doubt I will build a BB again.

Yep!

Maybe not the gospel below, but a starting point and (from what I've seen) fairly realistic numbers:

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-1210-inside-the-g3-hemi-cylinder-head/

Not me C.I. rule
My last pump gas BB 517 C.I. stroker motor made 775 HP with a set of 440-1 heads and changing the heads to a set of Indy M.W. SR made 727 HP with a single 1050 CFM Dominator That combination pushed my old 3450Lb. Duster to a best ET of 9.993 at 134.+ MPH corked up with the air cleaner on using 91 octane Oregon pump swill