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400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads

Posted By: qwkmopardan

400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/22/20 07:44 AM

Anyone got a set on an engine running and in the car and track tested?? 3000lb car preferably. Curious what kind of ets. Got back working on my set. Hope to have them on the engine in demon before end of season. TIA
Posted By: 1965fish

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/22/20 10:13 AM

I have two sets.
Dakota 394 CI Trick Flow heads. 3730 lbs went 6.64 at 101.
Valiant wagon 408 CI Trick Flow heads 3450 lbs went 6.57 at 104.
Posted By: AndyF

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/22/20 04:22 PM

Be interesting to see how they work for you. We ran an early set on the dyno on a mild 408 and they didn't do anything great. Worked okay, just weren't super impressive. The big block TF heads were impressive right out of the box on a variety of engines so we were expecting a lot from the SB heads.
Posted By: B3422W5

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/22/20 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by AndyF
Be interesting to see how they work for you. We ran an early set on the dyno on a mild 408 and they didn't do anything great. Worked okay, just weren't super impressive. The big block TF heads were impressive right out of the box on a variety of engines so we were expecting a lot from the SB heads.


Buddy just got his Trick flow headed small block to the track for the first time the other day. 90 degrees, 3000+ DA
3100 ish pounds, 264/268 flat tappet, 727 trans, convertor from another combo( W8 deal) not specced to this motor.
Victor, 28 tire, 4.30 gear.
Ran 10.63 @ 125 and change right off the trailer. Brake line leak aborted the rest of the outing.
Didnt think that was too shabby. No tuning, pretty lackluster 1.50 60 foot.
Heads were right out of the box
Posted By: Neil

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/22/20 10:15 PM

So are these heads tons better than Edelbrock Performer RPM's? Enough that it's worth taking the Edelbrocks off a running engine and switching to the TF heads?
Posted By: B3422W5

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/22/20 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by Neil
So are these heads tons better than Edelbrock Performer RPM's? Enough that it's worth taking the Edelbrocks off a running engine and switching to the TF heads?


fWIW..... if i was to guess, assuming both heads were merely just checked to make sure they were ready to run, and just bolted on a bracket stroker race type car, i would guess the TF heads are probably 4 tenths better.
Could close most of that gap if the eddies were fully ported.
Not seen any TF heads yet that anybody has went after to make them better than how they come.
Posted By: Neil

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/22/20 11:03 PM

Ok, thanks. I know someone looking at doing this, but I didn't know if it was worth the effort. His Edelbrocks are gasket matched with minor porting + cleanup work done to them,
Posted By: justinp61

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/23/20 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by Neil
Ok, thanks. I know someone looking at doing this, but I didn't know if it was worth the effort. His Edelbrocks are gasket matched with minor porting + cleanup work done to them,


IMHO, his money would be better spent having his current heads ported. If he were having to buy heads and rockers maybe then the Trick Flows may be the way to go. I haven't seen any numbers from the track from a Trick Flow combo that was overly impressive over known Edelbrock combo's.
Posted By: fast68plymouth

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/23/20 07:10 PM

A- send the current heads out for porting, wait to get them back...... hope they flow as good as the ootb TF heads.

B-sell the current heads and apply that $$$ to the new TF heads/head bolts/pushrods.
Do the swap in a weekend.

If it was within $500-700-ish...... I’d def go with the TF’s.

Posted By: 65signet

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/23/20 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
A- send the current heads out for porting, wait to get them back...... hope they flow as good as the ootb TF heads.

B-sell the current heads and apply that $$$ to the new TF heads/head bolts/pushrods.
Do the swap in a weekend.

If it was within $500-700-ish...... I’d def go with the TF’s.



The same situation i am in, what does it cost to port a set Edelbrock's to flow 300 cfm at .600 lift? anybody have some numbers?
Posted By: justinp61

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/23/20 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
A- send the current heads out for porting, wait to get them back...... hope they flow as good as the ootb TF heads.

B-sell the current heads and apply that $$$ to the new TF heads/head bolts/pushrods.
Do the swap in a weekend.

If it was within $500-700-ish...... I’d def go with the TF’s.



Dwayne, how much power do you think a set of TF's would be worth over a good set of ported Edelbrocks with a 2.055" intake valves? If I understand right you cant use the rockers off the Edelbrocks? What about the headers?
Posted By: fast68plymouth

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/24/20 12:37 AM

Put the 2.055’s in?
Even more $$$.
Plus, Reworking used heads...... now you have more $$$ in normal recon work and cleaning.

Unless you find someone who likes to work for cheap money.......fully porting RPM’s, fresh valve job, bigger valves, I can easily see that going over $1200.
At 300cfm(I’ve never had one even close to that on my bench), you have a heavily ported, thin in some areas, street head with kinda wimpy rocker stands.

Brian at IMM could probably come up with a price for that job right off the top of his head for that.

Since I’ve never seen a 300cfm RPM head, I have no idea how much porting it takes to get there.

It’s a $1395 proposition at Hughes...... which includes 2.08 valves...... but milling the decks to get back to the original chamber volume isn’t.
Plus.... shipping two ways.
If you needed a spring upgrade as well....... you’re almost at the cost of the TF heads without even selling the Ede heads.

But....... forget about comparing the spring packages.
2.00” installed height and 1.560 OD available ootb with the TF.

Depending on what you already have for rockers, they might work on the TF’s.
Posted By: justinp61

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/24/20 03:14 AM

When I bought my used Edelbrocks the only other (aluminum) options were Indy and Brodex. I gave $700 for the heads, then sent them to Curtis Boggs. He charged $1100 to port, do a 5 angle valve job and mill them to 55cc chambers. IIRC they flowed 293 @ .600. I ran them for five years on my 340, 7.24 @ 3240# on pump 93 with a hydraulic cam. When I was building my 408 I sent them to Ryan Johnson to be freshened, the valves were beat so he installed new 2.055" intakes and 1.600" exhaust, blended the intake bowl and did a 5 angle valve job another $1000. In my street/strip Dart, 3260#, 10.8-1, 260/264°, .633/628" flat solid with 4.10 gears it ran a bunch of 6.57's at a little over 104 mph on pump 93. The rockers are Hughes 1.6's that I ground the pi$$ to clear the valve springs. I'm thinking the springs are 2.00" installed height but will have to take them out of them box and measure.

If a guy is starting with nothing the Trick Flow are probably a better value but if he already has the heads and rocker gear I'm not convinced. The numbers from the track I've seen so far from the Trick Flows haven't been really impressive.

Don't the Trick Flows use a rocker with a big block offset? A traditional small type block rocker won't work?
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/24/20 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by justinp61
When I bought my used Edelbrocks the only other (aluminum) options were Indy and Brodex. I gave $700 for the heads, then sent them to Curtis Boggs. He charged $1100 to port, do a 5 angle valve job and mill them to 55cc chambers. IIRC they flowed 293 @ .600. I ran them for five years on my 340, 7.24 @ 3240# with a hydraulic cam and on pump 93. When I was building my 408 I sent them to Ryan Johnson to be freshened, the valves were beat so he installed new 2.055" intakes and 1.600" exhaust, blended the intake bowl and did a 5 angle valve job another $1000. In my street/strip Dart, 3260#, 10.8-1, 260/264°, .633/628" flat solid with 4.10 gears it ran a bunch of 6.57's at a little over 104 mph on pump 93. The rockers are Hughes 1.6's that I ground the pi$$ to clear the valve springs. I'm thinking the springs are 2.00" installed height but will have to take them out of them box and measure.

If a guy is starting with nothing the Trick Flow are probably a better value but if he already has the heads and rocker gear I'm not convinced. The numbers from the track I've seen so far from the Trick Flows haven't been really impressive.

Don't the Trick Flows use a rocker with a big block offset? A traditional small type block rocker won't work?




I think you are thinking about the Edelbrock Victor heads.
Posted By: justinp61

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/24/20 03:25 AM

Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
Originally Posted by justinp61
When I bought my used Edelbrocks the only other (aluminum) options were Indy and Brodex. I gave $700 for the heads, then sent them to Curtis Boggs. He charged $1100 to port, do a 5 angle valve job and mill them to 55cc chambers. IIRC they flowed 293 @ .600. I ran them for five years on my 340, 7.24 @ 3240# with a hydraulic cam and on pump 93. When I was building my 408 I sent them to Ryan Johnson to be freshened, the valves were beat so he installed new 2.055" intakes and 1.600" exhaust, blended the intake bowl and did a 5 angle valve job another $1000. In my street/strip Dart, 3260#, 10.8-1, 260/264°, .633/628" flat solid with 4.10 gears it ran a bunch of 6.57's at a little over 104 mph on pump 93. The rockers are Hughes 1.6's that I ground the pi$$ to clear the valve springs. I'm thinking the springs are 2.00" installed height but will have to take them out of them box and measure.

If a guy is starting with nothing the Trick Flow are probably a better value but if he already has the heads and rocker gear I'm not convinced. The numbers from the track I've seen so far from the Trick Flows haven't been really impressive.

Don't the Trick Flows use a rocker with a big block offset? A traditional small type block rocker won't work?




I think you are thinking about the Edelbrock Victor heads.


You may be right John.
Posted By: mopar65

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/24/20 07:33 AM

The Trick Flows I have on my 2000 5.9 magnum engine use regular LA Rocker arms. I have PRW 1.6 stainless steel rockers and mike from B3racing engines Geromity corection kit
Posted By: justinp61

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/24/20 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by mopar65
The Trick Flows I have on my 2000 5.9 magnum engine use regular LA Rocker arms. I have PRW 1.6 stainless steel rockers and mike from B3racing engines Geromity corection kit


up
Posted By: one bad fish

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/24/20 12:55 PM

i heard those victors r good
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/24/20 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by one bad fish
i heard those victors r good




I’ve gone 9.40’s with my Indy 360-1 heads but I would love porting a set of the Victor heads to see what I could go with them. They require different pistons so maybe when mine are worn out. I’m still running a solid lifter cam so that would have to change too so it would make the expense worthwhile
Posted By: fast68plymouth

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/24/20 01:34 PM

Quote
I gave $700 for the heads, then sent them to Curtis Boggs. He charged $1100 to port, do a 5 angle valve job and mill them to 55cc chambers.


What year did that happen?
Posted By: one bad fish

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/24/20 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
Originally Posted by one bad fish
i heard those victors r good




I’ve gone 9.40’s with my Indy 360-1 heads but I would love porting a set of the Victor heads to see what I could go with them. They require different pistons so maybe when mine are worn out. I’m still running a solid lifter cam so that would have to change too so it would make the expense worthwhile
i like my indys
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/24/20 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by one bad fish
Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
Originally Posted by one bad fish
i heard those victors r good




I’ve gone 9.40’s with my Indy 360-1 heads but I would love porting a set of the Victor heads to see what I could go with them. They require different pistons so maybe when mine are worn out. I’m still running a solid lifter cam so that would have to change too so it would make the expense worthwhile
i like my indys



My buddy bought a set of 245 cnc’d 360-1 heads and then sent them to Ryan and then a local Pa head porter. He has been fighting a water leak and my son and I found a hole in number 7 exhaust. I took them to be welded and pressure tested three different times and finally gave up on them Wednesday. They are paper thin in that exhaust port and someone did some butcher work in that port. He picked up another stock 245 cnc’d head that will be going on.
Posted By: justinp61

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/24/20 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Quote
I gave $700 for the heads, then sent them to Curtis Boggs. He charged $1100 to port, do a 5 angle valve job and mill them to 55cc chambers.


What year did that happen?


Probably 15 years ago, the heads were bought used.
Posted By: fast68plymouth

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/24/20 02:41 PM

Sooooo......I’d say it’s reasonable to assume prices might be a little higher now smoke
Posted By: justinp61

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/24/20 03:15 PM

I would say yes they have gone up. I think I have $15-1600 in the porting in my Indy heads and intake from four years ago.

Maybe as more guys run the Trick Flows their advantage over ported Edelbrocks will show up on the time slip. It would be interesting to see what a good ported could do with a set to see what the potential really is.
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/24/20 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by justinp61
I would say yes they have gone up. I think I have $15-1600 in the porting in my Indy heads and intake from four years ago.

Maybe as more guys run the Trick Flows their advantage over ported Edelbrocks will show up on the time slip. It would be interesting to see what a good ported could do with a set to see what the potential really is.




We had this discussion over on Abodiesony. You can’t buy a head that flows 300cfm@.700 lift and run a .501 purple shaft hydraulic cam and see miracles.
Posted By: justinp61

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/24/20 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
Originally Posted by justinp61
I would say yes they have gone up. I think I have $15-1600 in the porting in my Indy heads and intake from four years ago.

Maybe as more guys run the Trick Flows their advantage over ported Edelbrocks will show up on the time slip. It would be interesting to see what a good ported could do with a set to see what the potential really is.




We had this discussion over on Abodiesony. You can’t buy a head that flows 300cfm@.700 lift and run a .501 purple shaft hydraulic cam and see miracles.


I never thought that was the target market.
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/24/20 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by justinp61
Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
Originally Posted by justinp61
I would say yes they have gone up. I think I have $15-1600 in the porting in my Indy heads and intake from four years ago.

Maybe as more guys run the Trick Flows their advantage over ported Edelbrocks will show up on the time slip. It would be interesting to see what a good ported could do with a set to see what the potential really is.




We had this discussion over on Abodiesony. You can’t buy a head that flows 300cfm@.700 lift and run a .501 purple shaft hydraulic cam and see miracles.


I never thought that was the target market.



It’s a head aimed at the street, street strip guys. They told me that several times. Rumor is the new intake is very close after some quality control issues and I look for good news from TrickFlow in the near future.
Posted By: Mopar Mitch

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/24/20 05:11 PM

Has anyone noticed the odd shape of the TF exhaust ports? They appear they will not match exhaust gasket ports... especially the outer two ports.
Posted By: mopar65

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/25/20 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by Mopar Mitch
Has anyone noticed the odd shape of the TF exhaust ports? They appear they will not match exhaust gasket ports... especially the outer two ports.


Yes I noticed it too on mine
But I was told they will be fine. So far I haven't had any exhaust leaks with my hooker headers.
Posted By: skrews

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/27/20 05:24 AM

Looks like they filled in the floor, thus giving them that odd looking shape. Would like to see a gasket placed on one.
Posted By: fast68plymouth

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/27/20 03:17 PM

As long as there is a decent amount of material to back up the gasket where the header will be pushing on it, I don’t see any issues.

If the head was made without taking that into account, it would be a pretty big fail.

Since there are several reports of people running them, and no talk of incurable header leaks...... I’m thinking it’s “no problemo”.
Posted By: Mopar Mitch

Re: 400 inch sb with trick-flow 190 heads - 07/27/20 06:59 PM

Yeah... I'd like to see a picture of a gasket... header gasket... placed over the ports.... Fel-Pro #1413 is most common.
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