Braille Battery - what size?

I'm looking to save some space and keep the battery up front as I work on the turbo 5.7 project for my Coronet (still street legal, 10.xx goal). These Braille Batteries look interesting and have a non-standard PCA rating to denote 'typical' use. The 5.7 will be stock CR controlled by a MS3 gold box, which size of battery would be the right balance? Can the PCA rating be reliably used vs CCA since it'll never see cold weather?
Thanks

The "21" worked well in my last street car.

They make a bunch of different ones so just figure how much space you have and pick that one. I went with one that was half the width of a regular battery since that size fit really well into the stock location. I made a half width battery tray to match it.

Most of the Braile batteries are just a Deka brand AGM Motorcycle battery with the cranking amps fluffed up by the "Pulse Cranking amps" number. They get that number by doing a 5 second load test instead of a 15 second. Apply about %40 to any battery's CCA if you want something close to the PCA. The only thing that would really concern me would be running fans and pumps with the key on engine off. I do lots of KOEO stuff with my car and I never sweat it no matter how many passes I make in a day.

That being said I know lots of people use them and like them. I am the GM at a Interstate Battery Distributor and have worked for them for 22 years. My Battery game has to be strong, I remember like 15 years ago when my battery died at the track, your friends don't go easy when you are in the battery business lol. I take the weight penalty and just run an Optima Yellow Top. If I were to change I would likely go with a lithium option as they are getting better and cheaper.

I havent seen a lithium battery get cheaper anywhere.
Even that GoLithium brand went from $749.00 to $900.00 plus with charger.

That's a good point on the KOEO stuff, with the big block in the car I would in the heat run the fan + water pump for a few minutes when coming back into the pits.
Looks like a comparison of Reserve Capacity is the ticket for that?
Red top has 90min (yellow would be more)
a 'larger' Braille 147-B14115 has 25min, so that's a considerable difference.
Saving the footprint is what I'm most after - to either run a charge pipe between the battery and rad or for placing a w2a intercooler over on that side.

I just did the gutting of the resto battery and installed an Odyssey 925. The CCA’s are listed as only 330. I was concerned. It cranks over my 10.2:1 440 just fine.

I run a 780 cranking amp Anti Gravity ATX20. It spins my 13:1 Hemi over like the plugs are out of it. It will power the fan and wp for at least 10 minutes which is enuff to cool the car. THe alternator charges it fine, it survived Drag Week. it weighs 4.5 lbs and is supposed to last at least 10 years. Under $300. If you call AntiGravity direct, they will beat online pricing from resellers.

https://www.amazon.com/Antigravity-Batteries-Lithium-Motorsports-Battery/dp/B06XKQNJXY

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/p...Uzezv6AIVc-W1Ch2WtA3AEAQYASABEgJwdvD_BwE

at a glance it wasn't clear - can you jump one of those or if it dips below it's threshold the only option is to charge with it's dedicated charger?

I was told that you can only charge it with the special charger if it drops below a certain level. My friend Brian Coleman just accidentally ran his down by inadvertently leaving something turned on. When he hooked the Optima charger up to it, it didn't wake up the battery. He called antigravity and they said just jump it and run it and it will be fine. So I don't really know what the real answer is to that question. I forgot my fan and water pump on one time when I was wondering around the pits. I came back 20 to 30 minutes later and tried to start the car. The battery wasn't stone dead or shut off. It cranked over about a half a turn, but that was it, it didn't start. I put a jumper pack on it and fired it right up. It charged up from the alternator.

The special charger requirement is overhyped and designed to sell their chargers. Yeah, if you run it really dead you might have to put another batt in parallel for while, but likely you will not.
They do like a little higher float voltage after the batt is charged (and it goes into trickle mode) but my Tender Jr seems to do just fine and my cars alternator puts out over 14 volts. If your car puts out 13.5 or less you might have an issue. Most alternators and VRs put out more than that.

if you do go the Optima route get the Yellow Top, it is a little heavier but it is the same size. It will handle the cycling better. I just retired mine after 10 years, it was still working fine but when I pulled the cover off of my box I had some corrosion meaning it was starting to gas a little or the seal around the post had given up.

I have only messed with some lithium batteries that people have tried to recycle with us. They charge incredibly fast on conventional agm charger and they are very powerful. But, for some reason people are throwing them away(most of these have been motorcycle batteries) and the few I have messed with have been seemingly good so why did they toss them?

I forgot how heavy these yellow tops are.
60 pounds.
Now I remember why I ditched them for a 8lb. Lithium 16volt

Those are the giant truck battery ones, 43.8lbs for the yellow top. Still not light by any means.

Only yellow top that actually lasts and does what it is supposed to do. 60lb. Battery is brutal.

I just weighed my Axion Turbostart group 27 ....58 pounds!!! I knew it was a tank but didn’t know it was THAT heavy.

Put an Odyssey 925 in it, now the whole thing weighs 29 pounds. Took 29 pounds off the FRONT of the car!

According to this the big yellow top (H6) weighs 54 pounds.
https://www.optimabatteries.com/en-us/yellowtop-deep-cycle-battery

90% of the time if someone is having optima problems they are doing something wrong somewhere. We sell maybe 1000 of them a year and see very little failure. Most of the problems come from show cars, race cars, and things that don't get maintained and properly charged.

If you have to have the 60lb yellow top to function in your car there is problems.

At the time, 60 lbs in the trunk and the battery lasting well over 12 years was a plus for me.
Then I needed to shed a bunch of weight, sob iui t came out. I opted for a 8 lb. lithium battery.

Badfish, being a GM for a manufacturer, is it possible to get just a battery “body”, just a case without any of f the guts inside? I think I would like to hide a small battery inside of a full size one and make it look like a retro battery. I would rather not mess with the acid and stuff to cut up a bad battery if I could get a clean battery shell to start with.

They are out there but are hard to find and hard to get. I might have one in the garage, i'll look.

Andy are you selling the battery trays yet??? Nicely done

They are called display batteries. They turn up on epay every once in a while. Have converted a couple of them. Much cleaner than doing it with a wet battery.

No I decided not to sell them. They aren't a bolt in deal so they would be a hassle to sell.

That is what I am thinking John, not having to mess with acid and lead if I don't have to. Hopefully Badfish can find one but Ill also check on ebay. If you run into any, please let me know.

Thanks

27 series? Just checked a minute ago. No 27's, and no 24's. You might check your local parts stores and ask if they have any stuck away on their back shelves. Paid $10.00 for one years ago to one of my customers I had been calling on for years. You wouldn't have wanted that one. It was a 24 Delco.

I am not up on my sizes that I need, I think the 27 is BB size and 24 SB? If that is correct, then yes, I would like to find one of each. I can ask the local auto parts places next time I am in there.

It's not as fun as a day at the ballpark. I'm going through that right now.

A new start for my 77 Cordoba

I just gutted group 27 Mopar restoration battery. Had to cut the top off with a sawsall, I tried removing the plates from below and there was absolutely no possible way to do it from below on the Turbostart 2011 I was working on. Turned out GREAT, but it was a hassle.

I've done some damage trying to do it that way, as you can see. Though I'm not sure the damage didn't exist as cracks before I started from freezing, swelling, etc. It's doable, but messy. Cutting the top off is plan B. Mine is also a Turbostart c1995.

I have been checking these out as well! I worry though. I have a few loads. Electric water pump, turbo oil scavenge pump, small radiator fan, EFI system coil on plug and injectors. maybe the next size up??

One other question. What are you using to charge it? I do run a tiny Denzo style alternator. But on my optima I still need to charge between rounds. I did remove a huge electric fuel pump..

I use a Remy 21798 alternator. It is 105 amp and weighs about 12 lbs. It is commonly available at just about any parts store. I run on Drag Week which involves street driving, plus there is no way for me to plug in a charger at the track. So I need a powerful alternator that I can buy anywhere in case it fails on the road, even tho it is heavy.
Edit: THis alternator is for a 1999 - 2004 silverado 1500. It is about the most power you can run off a single V belt, and it needs to be TIGHT. It comes with a serpentine pulley, and I had to put a V pulley on it. So if it dies on the road, I will have to swap the V pully onto the replacement alternator.

Might not be a bad idea to go up one size. But if you have enuff alternator, the bigger battery will only give you more reserve for running stuff when the engine is off. This one certainly has enuff oomph to start the car.

Not only did I save the weight of the battery, I saved about 20# of cable by mounting the battery a foot away from the starter on the inside of the frame rail, instead of in the trunk. The NHRA mandated battery cut off switch is right there too, with the lever of it on the floor inside the car where I can reach it if I forget to turn it on. A 3/8" x .030" wall stainless steel tube runs from the lever, back through the trunk and out the back of the car as a remote control for the switch. That is much lighter than a Morse cable, it only weight a pound.

Those smaller batteries can tuck in some of the tighter areas. I didn't think about putting it closer to the starter.

Dyno - Can you fill that crack with some melted plastic? If you can, I would drill a hole on the ends of the crack so it won't keep cracking, then try to fill that and the crack with some hot black plastic. Looks like a ton of nastiness in that old battery of yours!

What is everyone doing with the old acid and lead plates from the batteries you cut open?

I'll do something to address it for sure. Epoxy, Gorilla Glue, some sorta something. Doesn't have to be water/acid tight or structural. All for appearance, and completely covered on the sides by the Thermoguard. I'll find something that will work.

Yes, fairly messy in there, though I've managed to do it fairly neatly from a work area point of view. I have a 5 gal. bucket with a heavy mil contracor garbage bag that all the contents are going into. Our county has hazardous waste collection days 3 or 4 times a year, and they take car batteries. So I'm going to give it to them.

I love the lithium battery upgrade. But knowing how hot they get in computers and phones, I worry about one in a hot engine compartment. Unlike a modern hybrid or BEV, where the battery is liquid cooled and computer monitored, mine will just have a 40 year old plastic Thermogruard with airflow through the core support around the repro case. Almost wondering if I should leave the hole in the side of the case!

You could probably wire in a computer fan or two, the style that cools the cases of desktops. You can get them in a variety of sizes, even look for people throwing out old computers for trash. They usually still have the fan(s) in them. Can put one in the back or bottom or where you really can't see it and have some ventilation holes in another location. What about sitting the battery on some aluminum / make a heat sink?

Whats the voltage on those computer fans

Most of them will run anywhere from 5 to 12 volts. The lower voltage just slows the fan.

I would have thought they were 110V being in a comp.. thanks for the info

Thermogard? computer fans? Get real.

I simply cut the top off my Turbostart, cleaned out the plates (easy once the top is off) then tapped the posts (easy once the top is off) and installed cables. Then siliconed the top back on to the case.

Didn’t even put a scratch in the case or top. It’s beautiful. As beautiful as the day I bought it 9 years ago. You cannot tell the top was ever removed.

He is talking about keeping a lithium ion battery temp down. They are very temp sensitive. They need some airflow for cooling. A 120mm ( about 4 3/4") fan moves 44 C.F.M. Best Buy has them for $10 but as I said, sometimes you can find them for free (maybe not as good though). Here is a link 120mm fan

They are 12VDC, the simpler ones are 2 wire, a positive and a negative. The newer ones are 4 wire, with a sense and a control (rpm). Here is a cool link that talks about them: 4 wire fan explanation

I would just get a 2 wire, the older ones for ease of install. I would also go with some kind of heat sink on it, surround it in some aluminum would work I think and have a fan in there it still gets too hot.

I salvaged a small computer fan for an amplifier I added to another car. That and the aluminum heat sink...good ideas!

Nice work Dave. I once found about 10 old computers being thrown out, near Christmas. I took all those old heat sinks and zip tied them to my exhaust pipe from the heater (natural gas) in the basement. I'll say it warmed up the area a couple of degrees just by using those heat sinks!