TH400 to RB in 69 b body info,I have a trans

I am getting ready to make the move to a TH400 in my Satellite.I asked in the past for a pic of the trans tunnel adjustment but never got it so if you have 1 please post it along with the trans cross member.I am going with an Utra bell because I don't want a mid plate if I can.TIA for your help!

Why? There is absolutely no reason a 727 won't live with your combo. I agree a 400 is good. But at what cost? You don't need one.
Doug

Come on Doug! All the cool kids are doing it!

lol

What I can say is mine don't last so I am done with it so post info if you have it .TY!

HI
what is the advantage? I have had a 727 in my super/gas lebaron for sometime now
gary

Do you want to slow your car down with the heavier parts in the 400?

IF YOU CANT KEEP A 727 TOGETHER WITH YOUR COMBO EITHER SOMEONE IS NOT BUILDING THEM RIGHT OR YOU ARE NOT SETTING UP YOUR TV CORRECTLY.

I had a 400 in an ebody. I get it the parts availability and converter selection is much better. The ultra bell is heavy and you really need to move the floor/firewall around a good bit for it all to fit nicely. I would also recommend an SFI case. Trying to put a shield on it would be a whole other issue. A blanket works pretty good. Headers are another concern, depending on what you have you may have top reengineer them to fit. The TTI stuff probably won't fit without a lot of work. What kind of power and what does your car weigh? I have to say I thought about putting a 400 in the 65 I am building and just didnlt want to do the work required and just couldn't justify the cost. I have had a 727 in a 3700# car running 9.90s for hundreds of passes with 0 issues and just a billet drum and bolt in sprag. It can be done but I see the 400 benefits as well. Sorry I don't have any pics to contribute but hopefully this gives you an idea of the challenges.

Thank you for the info.If you can say nore on adjusting the floor/tunnel I would appreciate it a lot.

You will have to cut the tunnel and enlarge it basically a total re-do - also you will need to build a new cross member for the 400 - if you are using an SFI approved case will get you away from blankets and shields that's one plus as between the bell housing and case you are covered - its a lot of work with no gain other than parts availability - powerglide would be easier. If you are having problems at your power level - get a new transmission builder

Basically I agree with the above you really need to cut the tunnel and make a new one at least to the mount. The mount is not too bad to make, the firewall opening needs to be bigger, the area from there back needs to be taller and wider basically back to the mount crossmember. The lines are on the right side and not the left side as well. All in all if this were a 1200HP 3400# car on a small tire where shake, and gear ratio become a problem I would spend the time. If it is a bracket deal I would do a glide much easier or build a 727 with better parts.

Thank you for the information!

if you have pics of the tunnel redo TIA!

[quote=Clanton]What I can say is mine don't last so I am done with it so post info if you have it .TY!
What parts have you failed? Who is building your transmission? My car has well over 400 runs on the current clutches and band. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you run low 10's? How any passes have you made? 100 or less?
Doug

I want to put that in the past how long it lasted,30 runs.just leave it at thatpls.ty

Turbo400 is a good trans. Can be built to hold a lot of power pretty inexpensively. The same could be said for a properly built torqflite. The benefits of installing a 400 into a B body, are not... for most, worth the effort. I understand being soured on parts. But It seems that maybe you would be best off to step back, take a breath, and re-evaluate your choice of trans builder. I assure you you are not making enough power to need to walk away from a TF.

if you are counting the ponies---a powerglide loses the least HP out the back---the built 904 is second in the loss column------or maybe you are already too fast....

Did you get burnt out and frustrated with the 727 while you still had the blower on the car??
Even a slow heavy car is hard on the trans. with a roots style blower.
IF anything is deficient in it the torque. fails them quickly.
Even my 11-0 streetcar has taken out 3rd FOUR TIMES.
Finally got it sorted out.
IMO with the blower forget horsepower, worry about the torque.

Your car, your effort your money and choice.
Hope you get it how you want it...👍

Thank you for your support!!

I took the last 2yrs off running it n/a to think about it so ya I gave it time.

I ordered a Rossler stage 4 Rossler trans

....which makes me think of the 47/48 RE torqueflight based trans behind the hopped up Cummins ISB

Just curious Clanton, was it repeated failure of one component? ...or a few instances of breakage. I’d still say at the level your at our favorite dump truck trans should be able to handle the task at hand.

Sounds like your next step is getting a JY core and start mocking things up.

Are there adapter kits available? I know pretty much zero about this. I do find it interesting how long people have been putting glides behind Mopars and still read about parts fitment issues here and there.

Hopefully you’ll start a post on this endeavor, or keep adding to this one. Lord knows we need reading material these days.

So now you are broke LOL.🙊
ROSSLER builds good stuff.
Keep us posted on progress and results.👍👋

I am not broke but 4,700$ is a lot just for the trans.I had a goal in mind when I started this and I will keep at it as long as I can.

This is where MOPARTS gets tunnel vision...and why most MOPAR guys are slower than the Brand X guys....

Someone asked about fitting a T400 to a B body, hes looking for info, what needs to be done.
Instead of helping him, you guys are chastising him, telling him a 727 will work, and he don't need a 400 etc etc
here some facts....

THE aftermarket is geared towards....T400, not 727's
COnverters, parts etc are all cheaper and more readily available for this trans, because almost everyone out there is using it.
Don't let your feelings get in the way....lol

honestly, a Rossler t400 may be overkill, but guess what, it will be THE LAST TRANS HE EVER BUYS.....keep up with fluid changes and it will literally last forever. I have a Rossler T400 for over 10 years, and still going strong. I make 915 on motor and 4-500? of nitrous on top

Clanton, to put a T400 in an A body, I fabbed a crossmember between my frame connecters. On the original crossmember, the part that passes above the trans I cut that back for clearance and fabbed a 16 ga flat steel to box it back in. Depending on how much cage you have that may not be necessary.
Any more questions ask, I did not do anything to the trans tunnel itself other than trim the lip where the floor and the firewall meet.
Hope this helps

PS : You made a great choice for a trans/trans builder, good luck

Rossler is a fantastic trans great choice, I agree you won't ever need another trans. May I also suggest a PPP shifter it will make your life easier for sure. Share some pics as you go through the process.

Did you lower the engine in the chassis? I mocked a 400 up in my 66 Coronet with an Ultra bell and it was not going to fit without making the tunnel bigger. I couldn't lower the engine because of the oil pan and headers so I scrapped the idea and went with a 727 I just didn't want to get into that much work. I had a simialer situation with my 65 although the engine is further forward the firewall wasn;t so much the issue as the tunnel from there back. Again both were gen 3 hemi conversions and the pan and headers limited the amount I could lower the engine. Just curious what you did to get it to fit without cutting the tunnel up. Also I agree the 400 can be just as fast as a 727 expecially when you consider the gear ratio options with the 400. I had a 210 Rossler in the purple Challenger I bought from Steff that car would go crazy sometimes and that 210 Rossler really got it under control. Also for the nah sayers I tested with a 727 vs a 400 in that car..............the 400 was faster mainly because of gear ratio and the ability to control wheel speed vs the 2.47 low gear in the 727. I know the purests here will not like that but it is the truth.

[quote=biff426]
Did you lower the engine in the chassis? I mocked a 400 up in my 66 Coronet with an Ultra bell and it was not going to fit without making the tunnel bigger. I couldn't lower the engine because of the oil pan and headers so I scrapped the idea and went with a 727 I just didn't want to get into that much work. I had a simialer situation with my 65 although the engine is further forward the firewall wasn;t so much the issue as the tunnel from there back. Again both were gen 3 hemi conversions and the pan and headers limited the amount I could lower the engine. Just curious what you did to get it to fit without cutting the tunnel up. Also I agree the 400 can be just as fast as a 727 expecially when you consider the gear ratio options with the 400. I had a 210 Rossler in the purple Challenger I bought from Steff that car would go crazy sometimes and that 210 Rossler really got it under control. Also for the nah sayers I tested with a 727 vs a 400 in that car..............the 400 was faster mainly because of gear ratio and the ability to control wheel speed vs the 2.47 low gear in the 727. I know the purests here will not like that but it is the truth.


[quote=n20mstr]

I use a motor plate, I really cant say why, but it fits my trans tunnel no problem.?? It is an A body not a B ,
I was surprised myself that it fit pretty well .
Im computer illiterate, so if anyone wants pics …..text me your cell and what you want to see, I can text pics..LOL
my number is 914 417 1312

The th400 from the bell back is just an 8" tube so I will test fit a tube to check the depth how it fits.I have 1" all around my 727 front to back so I think I may get lucky and only have to flat the tunnel lip to the fire wall.Thank you so much for your info!

I agree the Rossler is a very nice piece. I don't care if its GM or Mopar. If you were starting wth nothing and making BIG power I see the logic. What I don't understand in this case is someone gave up at 30 passes with a trans that easily would've worked. By the time this is all said and done it'll be way over $5K. Now I don't know about everybody but spending $5K+ is a pretty big bite. Especially when what you already have would've easily worked. You tell me. How many low 10 second cars kill a 727 every 30 passes? My 727 has stranded me once in 7 years (635passes). Every pass 9.2x or better@3350 or more. It was an aftermarket part design failure which was easily corrected. My trans in my sons turbo car with a 727 using a brake at 3750lbs (9's at 136 -142) has only stranded once as well in over 5 years. Easy upgrade to fix it as well. Just my 2cents
Doug

I took some measurements off my friends th400[width,length,height from pan rail] and I will compare it to my spare 727.

Ohhhh my God, Chevy transmissions. What’s next ford 9 inch rearends. We can’t even get our guys to give up 50 years old technology and update their radiator FLEX hoses and screw clamps. Lmao. Hemi guys included.

I have 2 transmissions that I went through 3 rebuilds 2 on 1 and 1 on the other.Not just 1 trans 30 runs.Maybe that is not enough for you but it was me and here we are.just an fyi!

The 727 is wider than the th400 from bell to tail housing basicly.

I had forgot about you using the blower, power will find all the weak parts

I don't really post at all, but I have run a 400 transmission in my 68 charger for a couple of years.
I recently removed it only because the car went to fast for the 5 point bar in the car.
It really is not that big of a deal to make fit. If your car is tied by frame connectors like mine is,
we cut the transmission crossmember to the center of the mounting bolts on each side. Then drilled out the
spot welds and made our own crossmember from rectangular tubing. It will put he transmission down about 3 degrees
lower than stock, but I was able to correct it with wedges under the axle. We never cut the factory tunnel.
It really is a sweet setup. I never experienced any vibration on the street or at the track. It easily stood up to a 498 wedge with
440-1 heads, 12.3 compression and a big shot plate system. With a 3800 Continental converter and manual valve body it really
was a great combo. Leaving on the transbrake with the unit the 1st time scared me straight. It also got me kicked off of all the
local tracks I can go to.
I returned the car back to the original 4 speed because I'm sill
a mopar [censored] at heart. And because racing a full size b body takes a lot more money than I'm willing to spend on a car I'd rather
drive
Call me if you have any questions 626 675 0664 pst
BTW, I still have the complete setup soup to nuts including the driveshaft and oil cooler if you do not have one already sourced.
Mike

maybee hes like some of us that had 727 bomb go off,i still dont trust a 727 no matter who builds it

Simple answer. Aluminum drum.
Doug

I have welded in frame connectors and a 10pt cage.I will measure to make a template for the trans cross member out of the tubing like you did and from my measurements the th400 mount is in line with the trans member frame.The rear of my trans is closer to the floor so dropping it a few degrees
or 3/4" would help and I will figure out any shim on the axle and check my cal tracs fit.Thank you for your info!

How is your engine set in the car.. does it have 2 engine mounts and a trans mount or is it using a motor
plate

Getting back to that “mopar guy” thing again.... stopped spending parts money from the torque converter on back. If they went that far!

I have a motor plate and rubber trans mount,no midplate

In your situation it would be pretty easy to build the crossmember and change the trans angle to
what you want with very little work.. you can either flex the engine plate or cut the mount tabs off
but if your talking 3/4" at the trans that would end up very little movement at the engine plate

There is no comparison in strength between a 400 and a 727. A 400 is much stronger, more reliable, and much less expensive for any given power range. I have a couple expensive 727's. They're fine at the 1000hp mark, 1200 starts to wear on them quickly, and forget big blower power. For half the cost of either 727, my 400's are rock solid at 2000+. I beat the cowboy p#ss out of one of my stock case 400's behind a blown 572 alky hemi in a heavy car for 2 years, after running it in an NA car for 2 years prior with no service. Took it to Neal trans (original builder)here in ga to get checked out before it goes behind a meaner blower. He dropped off at my house yesterday with a total bill of 500 bucks. I said I'd be over 2000 this time, and his response was keep it under 2500 or we might need a better intermediate shaft than the one you have.

Maybe someone runs a 727 at 2000hp, but I've personally never seen it, and I'd bet it would be way way sketchy, and need lots of care.

All that said I like my 727s for their purpose. One is a 727 specialist that is a great trans, and the best one I've owned. The other is a cope racing one that is also a great trans with zero complaints. I run them to keep one car all mope. Otherwise I'd run nothing but glides and 400s.

Off topic but I’m betting 90% of these are the drivers fault. When I see some of the idiotic things some guys do between the burnout box and the first 60 foot of the track it’s a wonder more don’t blow up. The proper information is out there if guys would do a little research and open their minds to do proper techniques.

Got on my soap box and forgot to answer the question lol

In myB body I had to cut out the first rib above the crossmember that connects to the floor pan. That was about it, other than cutting a factory crossmember down in the center for the 400 mount to sit. I'll snap a pic of it later today.

What exactly was failing after 30 laps and at what ET and MPH?

Kevin

I am going forward not back from here sorry.

I believe the th400 bell is 2" deeper than the 727 so this moves the trans mount back so I am waiting to get final measurements to figure things out.

I have a 6 bolt crank so the flex plate to get is a 93009-c from what I understand and I will need to set up/center the bell and check it.

The TH400 isn't immune from explosions.

The better way to adapt the 400 is with the coan plate that let's you use a Reid bell. Then later if you get a Reid case it'll work on it. Plus they're way straighter than jw.

Here's the trans with the coan/Reid



The car has a 727 in it now but you can see where the rib was and is now gone. That's about it for body mods. Get the longest tail they have for the 400. The D shaft will be super long. I had to go carbon for the length power, and rpm

I agree with what being said about power level. Also agree if you owned none of the parts. But in this case all the 727 stuff is already owned. Its a 10 second car. Why would you spend $5K+ to switch? Obviously he doesn't want to give up any info about what failed or who built it. That's his choice. And its his hard earned dollars.
Doug

I will ask about the coan plate ty The 727 is 6" longer than the th400 but idk if I can opt for a 9" tail.

I also see the trans mount is in the same place,Nice!

The trans in the car pic is the 727. The 400 fills that space up at the tail. You can easily mod your existing crossmember to take the 400. The mount winds up almost in the middle of the factory crossmember. Cut off the 727 mount pad that comes off the front. Then cut the center lower and weld in a plate for it to sit on. I'll find mine and take a pic. Looks like hell if I remember, but worked just fine.

400 turbos have a major advantage over a 727, it is the power flow. On a 400 turbo, you simply keep applying friction elements to change gears, on a 727 you have to apply a clutch and release a band to get 3rd gear, You can minimize, the overlap but never get rid of it, so with a 727 you have two friction elements applied at the same time, that is just hard on stuff. 400 turbos have two one way clutches so yes if you don't buy good parts they can also explode if one of them breaks. I have always just used a 727 in my mopars, never made much more than 700hp, so they have worked great for me. but as you say over 1,000 hp and I think a 400 is a great investment.

Any Updates On the Rossler Trans Mike ?

I will have it in 3 wks.The ultra bell and flex plate/spacer are on the way.TY for asking!

I will need to check the runout on the JW bell when I get it and I am getting ready to pull the engine to get ready.

I am building a turbo 400 as well for my car. Went with a Reid case, bell and tail housing. Tried getting quotes for all the internals from Cope and they couldn't be bothered.

wow that looks nice . would be the best way forward if going that direction . certainly an option when making power . as to cost ? you do what you have to do . no different to going 9"diff or glide .
lordy be I had my transbrake 727 built with billet steel drum etc cost just over AUS$5000 . ATI wouldn't recommend a 727 for me , they recommended a T400 . I just couldn't go towards $10G aussie plus the niggle changes - shaft , crossmember etc

Tex

Not a turbo 400 but it sure helps keep costs down when you buy stuff yourself (sometimes 20-30% off) and build it yourself. I bought three ATI cases and built a 1.98 low geared powerglide for my black Duster, a 1.69 low gear for my heads up car, and a 1.80 low gear for a spare or if I ever finish my green Duster. The bellhousing changes out in about 5-10 minutes and can go in all car I have.

That setup looks beefy. I can see how it makes sense for a serious racer to go ahead and step up to the pro stuff like that. It should be close to bullet proof and parts are going to be easier to come by. I'd do the same thing if I was serious about racing.

I am just an ET chaser staying out of trouble at the track as I have for the past 30 yrs.I am making some calls about a 9.5" vert getting a price and 1,000 is the going price for several and I am getting to know the GM vert a little.I wanted to make sure I got the correct 10.75 bolt pattern also.

when I put the T400 in my car, I called ATI for the converter. Since it was a GM converter it was $800.00 , I asked how much would the exact same converter be for a 727, it was $1200.00. I asked why?? they said I have no idea, its really the same converter with different hub/spline and bolt pattern. LMAO ! ! $400.00 difference for not really that much difference!!

Call FTI next for your deal 866-726-8358

I recent bought a stage 5 TH400 from them. Good for 2000HP. It's a great trans. They have a good reputation for trans and converters.

The SR8082 vert is only up to 750hp The other option is a SST custom 9" at 1,089$ so FYI it is not less money.Thank you for the info though.

I was on the ph with Mike at Rossler and there is no real way to save my drive shaft with a shorter th400 even with a 9" tail output it comes more than an inch short.I can get a longer th400 yoke 6" I believe but is not enough.The th400 is 33"7/8"long bell to tail.and the 727 35"1/4"
ps:I indexed my trans on the firewall and marked center so I can test fit the new trans asap.The engine has 2" to the firewall from the back of the engine.

I got the engine and trans out now I wait for Rossler for the whole trans,ultra bell,fp,spacer.I could drive 1 hr to get the ultra bell to center that on the engine.I will keep you posted

What's the sticker say on the trans? I can't read it on my phone.

Out with the old is on the sticker.lol

Time to make some adjustments cut/take parts out.I need to take out the factory console shifter,I have a PPP shifter I have been using mounted to the side of the console.The shift rod in the trans tunnel will make room for the trans but also I need to work on the trans tunnel arch by the mount.I am checking if I can drill the spot welds or if I have to cut it at the floor.

I left the base in to maybe mount a cover or make a new console.I will work on the switch/electric also as you can see I need to do.
ps:I really dont like taking the factory stuff out but not being able to use the power I can make bothers me.

I got the Bell,Flexplate,spacer bolt spacing and I am checking what I can,starter shim,vert pilot size,I will check the runout tomorrow.The bell went on the engine with no slop or too tight on the dowels.

2

I need to mount everything and check the starter to flex plat fit.

Looks good so far. Nice beefy looking part. Good luck with the project, I'm sure you'll run into a bunch of little things that need to be "adjusted".

Check the depth going into the adapter with the converter, mine only had .030 . I took .100 off
The adapter so the converter had more clearance . I checked it with some play-do

So far I have .032 off center

I will talk to you about this later today.I have no base measurements to go by.

Time for some RobbMC adjustable offset bell housing dowels to correct this
I'm thinking less than .007 total run out like we shoot for on stick shift scatter shields

I think the biggest offset I can get is .015 and to pull the 1's in the engine all I have is some visegrips so I hope that works.Moving the bell .015"I don't think is going to effect the starter much.

.032 off center? - I think you better double check your measurements again - I have never seen one out that far

How are you centering your dial indicator on the Crank??

I didn't.I measured for the low spot and 0 the dial.I still have it set in place to measure today but I am confident it is reading okay in the small steps I am turning it and the angle is small.

Doesn't need centering on the crank

I did check the adapter and flex plate 1st,put on the bell

When I get that far and have the converter I will lay it against the flex plate and check it.Thank youThe I.D. was 1.704

You have account for indicator sag when doing it the way you are. When you are on top it is falling away and when you are on the bottom it is falling toward. It won't be .032 but there is some.

I checked again and the same I just measured more often

TDC is .000 and BDC is .035"

OK - I got you now- divide .035 by 2 and your number is .0175 - a .015 offset dowel will put at .002 which is considered perfect for high RPM - if you get between .05 and .010 you are in the good range for what you are running

You need to do 4 points every 90 degrees so you know what what way it is shifted

Thank you for your insight .I looked at RobMc dowels and will give him a call ty!

So with .014 offset I will have to adjust all the bolt holes on the bell.What say you?

Hey Mike if you need a rock solid dial indicator mount that bolts to the crank flange you can use mine. I had it made strong so I could get my bell dialed in without the indicator moving around. Let me know and I can meet you somewhere and get it to you.
Gus

What a great offer Thank you.I think I am within .003 soI have had enough for now and will move on to getting a converter,driveshaft n yokeThe solid mount sounds interesting if you have a pic?

Hope I can get this pic sized and loaded. It bolts to the crank flange and the dial indicator clamps in the slit.

I haven't had to enlarge any of the bolt holes in the scatter shields I've corrected
Do yours first and see before fixing what may not be broken

Wow nice job on that fixture!I was thinking a bridge over the crank bolted in the converter holes with a post like yours.

Cab I will not adjust any holes until I am sure it needs it.

I was dreading cutting the trans tunnel frame and this is all I was comfortable cutting out to this point with an opening about 5 1/2".The only way I know to cut the flat lip is with a saw blade without the frame to hold it.

I flattened the lip with a 2lb hammer just fine

The lip doesnt need flattening
You need to cut vertically on the tunnel brace

Where I cut is where it is now.

I guess I installed it wrong in my car
Keep posting so I can see what I did wrong

I did jump the gun as far as waiting for my trans to see what it needed.I hope to have my trans the end of next week.

Dialing in the bell with offset dowels can be exhausting if you never did it.I got within .020 with .000 on 1 side to start.I will try again tomorrow. I had to remove the bolts holding the bell to the engine on the lowest 2 boltsto allow the dowels to move the bell a couple of times and check other bolts.

Try brushing up on cosine indicator effect.

Welcome to the world of frustrations on race cars and such
Your within .010 from perfect so stick with it and shoot for ,003 to .007 max run out

I know I need to get the dial at a better angle.I also have the dowel at max lift and will work on the last .005ps:I got it down to .013 at 2 oclock and .000 at 8 oclock and I am wondering if I can go with a .020 dowel and get it down to just a few thou.What do you think?

I need some help deciding to got a .020 dowel set.I got it down to .013 at 2 oclock and .000 at 8 oclock and I am wondering if I can go with a .020 dowel and get it down to just a few thou.What do you think?dowel set .021 at this time I have 3 bolts that will not thread and are hitting the hole in the 2 lower block holes and 1 on the upper holes.

Are you moving the offset dowels towards the crankshaft to help move remove the run out?

The dowels are facing to the top of the bell with a few less thou on the top side now

if I had .005 more on the dowel[.021"] the next size I would be there with the dowels like it is now.

If those numbers are correct the hole isnt round.
Take readings at 12, 3,6 and ,9. Ignore the rest

What he is seeing is very common, it depends on where you locate the zero on the dial indictor to start with
I now start with the zero at 12 o clock and go from there
If it is oblong, goes to +.012 and then returns to zero and then goes to -.017 and then returns to zero at 12 o clock I know where and what size offset bushing to start with
It ain't easy but it is doable

I want to thank you all for your interest.I would have went to summit today but they are closed and if they have the .021 in stock at Talmage,Ohio store
I drove to summit and got the .021 and got the bell to read from .001 to .007 so I am good to go when the trans is done.I will update when I get the trans.

I go to pick up my trans tomorrow and he insists on putting on the bell to the trans for correct sealing to the pump.I waited to order a Vert to be sure nothing went wrong with my order on the trans so I can now order that and get moving on the mount and driveshaft.

After he mounts the bell I am going to ask him to put in a converter so I can check the depth of the vert pilot to the engine side of the bell.

JW said to ship the bell back.I went to rossler and he let me take a REID bell and another to test fit and so the factory dowels are too big for both bells and I hope to have a buddy turn them down .002/3 tonight after he is off work and then I can test fit what rossler lent me.

Bam I put on the other JW from another run yrs ago and fit great .001 to .004 with 0 offset dowel

I finally have it at home.This is a big upgrade for me as much as the Koleno block was.Back to work with some motivation.

looking good .
No thought to a sfi case or simply too much $ at this point ?

Tex

Man, are you going to have a long drive shaft. I would think close to 5ft

Simple answer Yes too much $.I did what I could.

I think it will be around 58".I would have got a longer tail if there were better communication with the builder.The 727 is 35" th400 is 28" ps:I ordered a PTC 9.5" converter will be here in 3 or 4 wks

Test fit trans

2

how tall is it in the back from the mount point to the top? Interested in comparing it to a Nag1 and TF8 I have to see how much cross member surgery I might need.
Thanks

In the trans cross member pic the trans is topped out just to test fit and is just above the trans cross member ledge 3/4" maybe.

The trans and engine are test fit so I can make a trans mount but the input shaft looks back too far for the converter pilot.

I notched the back of the factory trans x member 1" x4" wide and it fit the th400 nice so now to make room for the mount/bushing.

The trans input shaft is about .200" away from the crank spacer so I will call PTC and let him know so I can get the .125" pilot in the spacer minimum needed.I need to cut the old trans fluid lines and re press the #6 fitting in and the temp sensor Tee in a good place and my Lokar dipstick looks like no problem clearing and rossler indexed the dipstick for the th400 and I am double triple measuring for the drive shaft to be made.I am glad things are moving along now.Any one have a question or input?

For what it's worth, I had a buddy with a '71 duster 20 years ago. When he got it...It had the top of the cross member cut out exactly like you've done to make yourT400 fit. Someone had chopped his out to put a 3 speed manual in the car, and the cross member was in the way of the shift rods if I remember right. This was a lowly mid 13 second car... nothing crazy.

Anyway... We converted it back to a 727 almost right after he bought it.

The odd thing was that it would break flex plates and trans mounts on a regular basis. After about 4 or 5 of them (even aftermarket SFI ones), we suspected maybe the missing frame cross member section had something to do with it.

My dad cut a piece of cross member out of a donor car and welded it back in for us. Never broke another flex plate again!!!!!

So just my 2 cents from my one and only experience.... with that crossmember piece missing it was a disaster.

Thank you I could always weld some angle in the cross member inside.I had to start somewhere.

This was a helpful chart so I will add it here driveshaft material strength list of driveshafts

I take it your going carbon fiber since the chart doesnt go to the length you want?

Nooo!lol That leaves 2 other options ms and aluminum

in this link an aluminum 4" can take 2k hp and this is what Mark williams wanted to sell me 1st at my length so at 1/2 the $ of cf this works for me even with shipping 50$ maybe. aluminum ds spec from the link"Description
3.5″ Shaft with, 1350 Series “Gold” Cryo treated Solid U-joints, are built under the most Stringent Tolerances in the industry. Tubing is Factory Straightened to .010″ total runout at the center of the tube. Tube yokes are welded to within .006″ runout on each end. The shafts are Electronically Computer Balanced to less than 1/8 Oz/Inch, as an assembly, assuring smooth operation at the Big end as well out of the hole.

Critical Speed is calculated on each shaft to insure your Safety and Ultimate Shaft longevity. We recommend the 3.5″ shaft in most cases to 1000 Horse Power. 4″ Shafts are recommended to 2000 Horse Power.

Shafts are complete with the most common standard transmission Slip Yokes. In some cases an upgrade on the Slip Yoke or U- joints may be considered."

How about chromemoly DOM 3.5 tubes?

In the chart the rpm limit is much lower for cm.My driveshaft speed would be 6300 I think at 140 mph.I have some hard choices to make here it looks like so I need to revisit the data

So I would have a ds speed of 6266 with a mph 140 and a 28" tire and 5848 with a tire of 30" so with a 30" tire I think a aluminum 59" shaft is doable.Or even a 4" mild steel

Did you use this calculation for the ds speed?
Top speed x 336 (a constant) x rear ratio (like 4.10), then divide it by the tire height (28” tall tire)
It doesnt look like it

yes I did w 3.73 gear so 140 mph 3.73, 30" tire

I got the driveshaft today so just waiting on the PTC 4500 stall 9.5: vert.The ds clears thew hoop plenty and the ds was 663$.I am also waiting on the shifter sideplates to go to a th400 and it should be here today or tomorrow.I will sell the 727 sideplates.

I will be getting my 9.5" vert from PTC today to complete what I need to get running again so I will be back to work for a few weeks on the car.I don't expect to get to the track this yr but will run on the street to test the carb jetting that have been sitting on the blower for 3yrs or so.I will post a video I hope when I drive it.

Are you going to put the blower back on it for the street duty?

yes!Low boost 5 to 8 lbs and that would be 3 or 5%OD

Looking forward to when you finally get it back to the track

Thank you Me too!There is no good in having a blower if you can't use it.I will not use the intercooler for now also but when I get to the track I should have it in and plumbed.

Just some GM style converter picsI measured the pilot fo fit the flexplate adapter 1.702 pilot and 1.704 adaptor hole.I need to put the fplate agains the vert to check the bolt holes.I got 3 bolts,nuts in the box with the vert.[7/16" maybe]I will check the crank bolt to fplate gap also.When I unbolt the trans I will check the installed ht in the bell

some update pics.I had to put a friend in his final resting place so getting to work on this was slow.Lokar dipstick fits nice.The vert went in clean. 1.22 to the mount pads, .900 to the pilot from the bell face.I need to measure the pad to fp gap yet and pull the vert to the fp.Now I will be steady at work on it.ty for reading.

sorry for your loss .

looking at the filler , could you have dented the floor away a little and run a solid tube ?
lots of hard work youve covered thanks

Tex

I think you could make a solid tube work but why dent the floor when you can form the tube?.My Lokar is about 34" long

Thank you for your sympathy for Cpl E-4 USMC Brian King

Condolences on your loss.

i have always found the lokar a pain to fill and sometimes check .
But you are looking good

Tex

i too, am wondering about how long it will take you to fill the transmission with that dipstick setup.

and also, sorry for your loss.

I put 3qts in under 2 minutes from a gal jug of Max Shift 1 in the vert.
adding some progress pic

My converter bolts are short that I got with it at 1.250" long so lucky I got some at summit that are 1.5" but the bolt is about 1 thread away from hitting the front cover of the vert so I think I can use it.I did not tq it to 60ft lbs but if it hits then I think I can grind a tapper on the bolt so it will clear.Look at the vert bolt pad and the front of the vert and maybe you can see what I mean.

could you use a 12pt head like on an ARP bolt to help with clearance ?

That would not help me the bolt is just on the edge of too long.I can grind off .050" from the length.The bolt I got with the vert had no threads past the nut What I ended up doing is taking a feeler gauge and checking the gap after I ground .035 off all the bolt threads and ended up with .080" befor tqing the bolt[about 2 threads gap]

after re-looking at the picture, would it be possible to use a jam nut for a rod end ?
that would allow a bit more clearance. [i think ?]

I cut/sanded off 3/4 of 1 thread[.035"] of the bolt to keep the bolt from bottoming out on the converter cover and after torquing I had about .050 to .060" gap.The nut on the bolt is fine.I used red loctite. at 55lbs.grade 8 bolt.

What did you ever do about the cross member you cut out? Never saw a picture of it being reinforced. The floor sheet metal alone isn't going to cut it. I'd fix it now before you possibly damage a very expensive purchase.
Doug

I have not done anything with the trans member or floor yet.How/what should I do to it?to start I was going to fill in the open area with 1 piece .125" thick and as wide as the frame bolt holes

I put the starter in and then started lashing the valves and I can hear the starter ring spin the starter gear so I will have to shim the starter with the shims that came with the ultra bell.The kits came with a starter nose extension but how do I know when to use that?
ps:The starter took 2 shims to get off the ring gear about .040".No more noise when I lashed the valves.

The big box hanging off the back can be cut off for a smaller[1"x4"] shelf the the trans mount will bolt to.I am not against making a whole new trans mount but I am using what I have to progress on other things.Your input is welcome.

I am going to start with a 61top 63 lower tooth pulley at 3.3% od and I believe this will give me 7# of boost and about a 12/1cr[9.5 static]

WTH happened to the balancer?

LOLthe alt bolt sleeve rubbed it.The ballancer is 20 yrs old

You may want to replace it.

Nah it is just a scuff and not deep.ty

This is a start on my trans member and I will have a full shelf from 1 side to the other inside from bolt hole to bolt hole.

I opened up the trans bushing mount hole 1/4" to move it back so I can get a nut on it[10mm 1.500 nut] I found a welding shop to weld everything together and I will get a price later today at Certified welding on 9603 Clinton rd Cleveland 216-961-5410 and he welded my quick release steering wheel adapter about 6yrs ago.
ps:I understand this looks like poop but we will clean things up for the finish product.

The mount is back from the welder.I should be done posting for a while until I drive it.comments are still welcome.

looks like a good job.

Because I didn't do it,lol I had to go to summit to get the 4th fuel line fitting[-6 an straight to -6 an] for the regulator I lost along with the heat exchanger fittings 1/2 npt to -12. and that will go on after this winter so I learn how to drain it for the winter.The blower is back on and running after 3yrs n/a,YAY Go to the 2min 4 startup