Buying a used race car

Looking at buying a used race car. The owner has sent plenty of pics and answered all my questions. I'm worried about buying a car unseen. Anybody else have some experience?

I bought my Dart from a fellow in Alabama...........I was in Afghanistan at the time and had it shipped to the house in Minnesota.
I was told " rebuilt from bumper to bumper...........needs nothing ".
The guy ended every email with " God Bless ".
The only thing I kept from the suspension was the lower control arms.
Front and rear.
The ring gear was pitted from rust in the rear end and it had a worn out cone style posi.
The body was pretty solid , but there was a patch in the driver's side floor , done with copper sheet and tar paper.
I could smell the cow dung every time I went under the car for months , which told me where the car was sitting before it made it into his shop.
The 340 ran good , but I wasn't taking any chances , so it got replaced , with the transmission.
Essentially , I way over paid for a clean body.
Pictures can tell a lot of lies.
But that being said , I would probably still do it again if the right deal came along.
Can you find someone local to put eyes on it for you ?
I am in Minnesota , and for the price of lunch , I'd gladly do a favor for a fellow car guy.
Ask members if they know anything about the car or the guy ?
At a minimum , I would try to speak with the owner on the phone and try to gauge if he seems to be a normal sort.

You really should have someone or yourself look at it. As stated, pictures can brutally lie.

I would also want to pull a valve cover or something too. I think I would invest in a camera to inspect inside of a cylinder as well.

So, a couple of years ago, a couple of friends and I go up to see a guy who has 12 1962 Dodges for sale. All sounds good on the phone, all southwest cars ect. When he slides open the pole building door he says "Oh, I guess I sold some of them". There was 5 rusty cars there...…………….

I would go buy a plane ticket or see if a member here can go look at it. It is winter so people might want to get out of the house. Give them a few bucks for their time.

Thanks for replies It's a roller everything included besides motor and trans. I have to talked to him on the phone a few times. Seems like a young guy. He has answered all my questions. Car is in Mott North Dakota. He is not a mopar guy had small block chevy in it. He wants a Vega. There is a Vega in Minnesota he wants. The deal is I pick up Vega and pay for it and meet him in Bismarck to trade. This deal knocks $500 off price and a couple hours driving. The thing is I want an arrow so bad I don't think I was thinking clearly. Now that a week has gone by I'm have 2nd thoughts. My racing buddy who wants me to get car and is my co-pilot thinks it's a bad deal also but will go with me anyhow. We are planning on Feb 28th.

I agree with everyone else. proceed with caution! I was recently in a similar position. I live near Tacoma wa. and a tube chassis came up for sale in arkansas. I spoke to the gentleman a couple times on the phone. decided to take the gamble and bought it sight unseen. drove 4600 miles round trip in 4 days. this occasion what I ended up buying was far far more than I had expected and probably the best deal I've ever received

We bought a car out of Louisiana. We looked at plenty of pictures of course before making our decision. Lots of phone conversations with the owner also. We called NHRA and had them do a chassis cert on the car before we would head down to get it. The NHRA tech guy was very helpful in the fact that he not only passed the car for 8.50 cert he also called us back and let us know his thoughts on the car.
One thing to make sure of is make sure the car was built for a driver your size. We had to move a couple of bars when we got the car back to Michigan so I could fit more comfortably. Other than that it was a good experience.

Very nice looking cars! I think I will call him tonight. I just hate to give the impression I think he might be screwing me.

That deal is a bit odd, Why doesn't he just buy the Vega after he sells the Arrow to you?
If he flakes out on the deal you will be stuck with a Vega.

That would concern me as well.

If I bring Vega to him saves him 7 hours driving. He needs money from arrow sale to buy Vega. My biggest concern is if arrow not what I'm expecting. Them I'm stuck with a Vega. I think I'm going to tell him I will stop and look at Vega on my way out. Then if he wants Vega he will have to go get it. Thanks Guys

BIG red flag for me, deal killer.

I agree with the guys about buying something for the guy, he may not like what you bring, and you might not like what you see. 2 deal breaker possibilities with you holding bag either way. I’m only about 200 miles away if your not in too big a hurry. My work schedule is such that I wouldn’t be able to go for a couple weeks... Let me know. Jim

i have 3 race cars for sale,all i get is low ballers,and people that wants to trade worthless chevys for my cars

Yuu would have to be insane to follow through with that triangle of doom. The best way I can think to explain this is look at guys and their gals. Everyone has different taste and what is acceptable to one man might not be acceptable to another. I have a pic from my black '66 Charger here somewhere and among the items I found were 10 compression fittings in the braking system. The car has done almost 150 like that! All of my buddies were surprised when I got the car home and started tearing it down. They wanted me to slam the 511 / Lenco combo in and go. I have been around enough "race" cars to know better lol. As said above assume you are buying a shell unless there are lots of build pictures, receipts (from well known shops), etc. In my experience "ready to run" usually means "worn out junk" in race car speak.

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Those are cool cars! Watching sales like this linger on has put me on a mission to build my cars and race/drive them into the ground. There will be no resale value lol.

Thanks Guys I'm feeling much more confident in my decision to take a step back. I'm not expecting a high end race car here but I don't what junk either. It is a basic bracket car. He was running 6os with it in 2018 and it was Ihra certified. My plan was to put my 440 from my 64 ( which ran 11os @#3680) in it and run low 10s. Thanks Mike

I think you will be 1000's ahead if you look at your prospects in person. It's a long drive however it will be even a longer rebuild if you can't live with it. Good decision!

Thanks for the offer Jim. I will talk to him tonight and let you know. Thanks Mike

Mike..Are you the fella that had a fire at Cedar Falls a few years ago?

Definitely have someone take a look at it. I have looked at (and bought) way too many cars that the sellers idea of great condition and my idea were worlds apart.

Kinda like internet dating. Pictures don't lie, but liars take pictures.

Another great reason to go look at it in person here below.



Cars with vins/cars without.

Unless it is a car that was originally built by a shop I'm familiar with, being sold by someone I'm familiar with, and with a verifiable history - NO WAY, NO HOW.

I see scary crap for sale on facecrook everyday, people posting comments about how awesome it is, what a great car it is - and I look at the pictures, and it's a complete hillbilly hacked up POS death trap. And I'm thinking "what the h311 are you people looking at and have you never seen a decent car before?"

I've been involved, after the fact, with cars and engines that were bought, dragged home, and then tried to be made usable. Cars and engines that people paid stupid money for and they were TOTAL JUNK. Hillbilly, Harbor Freight welder built, scrap metal trash, roofing material sheet metal, broke up, worn out, silly junk put together by idiots with no clue.. Sometimes they can be made to be OK, usually after spending enough money that they could have built a new car.

A chassis tag is the first thing to look for, but that's not the only thing. It needs to be looked at, closely, by someone who knows what they are looking at and looking for. If you don't, you need the help of someone who does.

Harsh? Maybe, but I get tired of seeing nice guys buy a pile of $#(^ for big money, realize they've been taken and have to unload the junk for a big loss. Sometimes after I've had to break the bad news to them.

Yes bought my first Race car from NC.I live in ct
Had a friend nearby that looked at it . I was not disappointed when it arrived.
Trust no one you don’t know and keep in mind it’s a race car. You know what it is used for every time it’s used.
G

If the car he has looks good with plenty of RECENT pictures,the only way I would do this is to meet him at the Vega and look at the car he has.If you like what you see then you can buy the car and he can take the vega home

Well the location SUCKS! PITA to get to for sure. I’ll give Kevin (Darndart) a shout and see if he knows the car. He’s races at Minot.
Jay

I bought my car from Kentucky and I live on the west coast of Canada. The guy sent me lots of pics that were taken at just the right angles to hide all the garbage. Man was I pissed when I picked up the car on the US side of the boarder.
Tried calling the guy and sent lots of emails with no replies. There is no way in hell I would buy a car for anyone in-order to make a trade. Listen to the guys above and stay clear.

Not Me

Thanks Guys. I told him I'm going to pass on it. He dropped price but I just have a bad feeling about it

To many moving parts in this ordeal to feel good about.

One guy I know bought a rolling backhalf car that supposedly ran high 10's. He stuck his motor in the car and ran the car 1 day. It drove all over the place and after checking things out realized it was a total pile of crap. Ended up pulling the parts he could and scrapped the chassis to build another.

Second guy I know bought a tube chassis car, I don't think it was certified (big mistake). Car looked great, nice welds, everything, but when he went get it certified the roll cage tubing was to thin. Ended up having to cut the entire cage out and redo to get it to pass cert.

Another guy bought a turn key car that had a known noise in the engine. He bought it what he thought was a "fair" price. Engine ended up having 4 pistons installed backwards, wheel bears were never greased, no cotter pins in anything. When he drilled the rear end housing for a vent, gear oil came out the top as they had filled it completely full.

The ONLY way I'd buy al car is if it's what I considered a fair price and I would still go over EVERYTHING to assure it is done correctly.

Mine would be so cheap you wouldn’t care!

I checked.........Mott , N.D. is way out in the weeds.
About 600 miles from me , and the highlight of the trip would be the restaurant at the truck stop in Tower City.
Well..........I know of a decent pizza joint in Bismarck too.
So I would be bored , but well fed , if I made the trip.
I used to get out that way regularly for work , and west of Bismarck holds nothing but crazy memories.
There was a bar in New Town , N.D. , a small place , but they had a boxing ring set up against one wall.
There was a banner proclaiming " Budweiser presents Friday Night Fights " on the wall next to it and it was blood spattered.
It worked like this.........50.00 to the winner , 25.00 to the loser.
They would line you up against someone who was close to your division and let the fun begin.
The contestants would then take their winnings " losings " and pour it right back into the till.
I got the story from the bartender on a Wednesday night , and I was glad for that.
Because if I was there on a Friday back then , three to eight drinks into the night , I would have been in that ring getting my butt handed to me.
I was strong , but not farm boy strong.

West and north of Bismarck is pretty much oil country now, it has settled down somewhat since 2012. The reservation that Newtown is on is the hotspot for drilling now, I work about 40 miles east of there. The oil company I work for doesn’t have wells over there, yet. You probly wouldn’t recognize it nowadays. Has a great casino that brings some nice entertainment (for our area) in and is a very nice place. Me, I live in Gods country, 5 miles into Montana. Lol. Jim.

Say .... a guy from Coder is trying to sell a Charger that he claims runs high 9’s ... but that part of Pennsylvania has 5 feet of snow ... how do you get THE PROOF that the car will run that time ?

He must have time slips and a picture of the car at the track with the same car number as the time slip?

As stated, pictures can brutally lie.

I think anybody would understand.

How do you think you will feel if he is screwing you?
G

I have a car in my shop that I was assured was a great car. It was only 5 hours away so I went and took a look. It was nowhere near as described, and it had tech stickers from 2 different tracks on it. I offered the guy less than half what he was asking hoping he wouldn't take it. Unfortunately for me, 2 weeks later he did. We've done a lot of work on it, and it will be a good car, but I keep getting sidetracked by other projects.

They can. And they can be intentionally vague. I've picked out some ridiculous details from pictures in for sale ads. Typically, if parts of the car you can see are hacked together junk, the rest of it is as well.

Sometimes they just scream - "we used whatever scrap metal we had laying around, bicycle parts, suspension brackets hacked out of I-beams with a blue wrench, old fence posts, 20 year old parts we found at a swap meet.110v Harbor Freight welder. It's all good. Tape measure? We don't need no stinking tape measure." - I've seen some sad crap. There's just no substitute for an in person inspection. And I don't care about ET slips. A death trap will go fast with big horsepower.

Different people can have wildly different definitions of "nice" and/or "junk". Not everyone wants or needs an ex-Pro Stock car or a Bickel RvW car. A decent bracket car car be done on a budget. You just have to pay attention. The world is full of hacks.

I bought a car once unseen and I can tell you I'll never do it again. I had to re-do most of the car.
I also had a situation with another car where we each towed 5 hours one way to meet half way between our houses. Car was complete junk, nothing like the photos.
I didn't know wether to be mad or to be embarrassed for backing out of the deal so I just got in the truck confused and drove 5 hours home lol. No fun and a lot of gas money.

My son, myself, and his car sick girlfriend left from Pa right after he got off work on midnight shift and towed a trailer deep into North Carolina to check out a heads up class Duster. I Liked the car, negotiated the deal, paid for it, loaded it up in my trailer and drove back to Pa five years ago. We got home right before midnight. I drove all but 100 miles and I can honestly say I will never do that again without a sleepover somewhere during the trip. Towing an empty box trailer on a rainy windy night is not an enjoyable trip.

I did a trade even up 5 hours away, one way. Same, lot's of E-mails, phone calls, videos back and forth. Traded cars sight unseen other than pics/video on E-mail. Could have not been a better deal (for me). Honesty on both parties is the key to a good transaction.

Tempest, that's a beautiful car.

I bought my Avenger from a fellow on the east coast of Canada, lots of pics and phone calls. He met me in Toronto. Picked up my buddy in Minneapolis and we drove straight thru, I think it was a 3300 mile round trip. The car was even better than I imagined, and that’s is a first for me. Seller and his wife were great to deal with, very nice people. Still talk to them once in a while. But have had a few not so nice encounters. I guess you takes your chances... Jim

i still have 3 race cars for sale on here and racing junk,there going back on ebay,im a straight up honest guy and will tell you anything wrong with them,im done with racing,want a street car to get into at anytime or day and enjoy,most race car i bought was sight unseen,had to redo everything,i dont see how people sell junk,and there down right filty and dirty,when i sell a car its very clean,even when i sell parts there very clean,most parts i buy again,there filty and dirty

it does kind of irk me when you go to the swaps, that guys don't bother to clean up stuff, but still want premium prices.

Pictures of parts in for sale ads - parts laying in the dirt and leaves in the yard... Priceless.

you buy a race car at the race track or you are asking to get ripped off

BINGO. And DON'T LET IT OUT OF YOUR SIGHT after the deal is made. Do NOT go get your trailer and go pick it up a few days later.

Same thing if you're buying an engine out of a car.

I really like the look of this car, stock car, no scoop, has the side molding and hood ornament, but also a big tire. Nice blend of stock and performance. do you have more pics?

I bought a 'cuda after only seeing it race a few times. A US built car, sent downunder, raced by a guy who had too much money i guess. I bought it as a roller, stripped it, refined some of the rough engineering, set the car up as it should of been & put my bracket motor into it. A change of colour & year & you'd hardly recognise it. I bought it for the right price, just glad i'm mechanically minded & was able to do 90% of the work myself, would require a mortage if you were to pay someone to mess with it like i did.

Sold my Mirada for $7500 as a “turn key roller”. Was carefully explained that yes it runs, and yes the engine needs freshened, like new short block freshened. The guy still raced it for two years before he sold it. Not bad for a package that ran into the 9s close to sea level.

Still running .. I don't think they messed with motor yet

My strategy normally is:
a. Everything in black and white (print) from the start
b. Best if subtle "trip wires" are included in communications
c. decide early how many trips need to be triggered to just run away
d. As deal progresses, move to voice contact
e. If deal progresses further, go face to face

If seller is a fast talker, smooth, or over the top "nice", etc, I usually pass, most con men are on their best behavior when dealing.
When seller beats around the bush, don't forget the "bush" is what they don't want to address or you to discover
Listen to your gut.
And worst aspect, good deals don't last long.

Of the 8 race cars i've bought over the years every single one of them has been without an engine and transmission. That's the only way I would buy one.

I think anyone who has raced more than 5 minutes in their life has been screwed by some unscrupulous copulation head thief. I wish there was a drag racing court that people could either find resolution on misunderstandings, or prosecute the dirt bags with nationwide exclusion from any race track, period.

I my right and left hands and both feet work well on unscrupulous parts and car dealers and sellers convincing them to do the right thing from then on

Bought my racecar in the mid-'90s after seeing its ad in Dragster - it was in MD, I was in CA. Long conversation with owner, who spoke knowledgeably and passed the interview.
Drove out there & it was exactly what I'd expected from our conversation.
In fact, better than expected, due to an offhand comment made after purchase (see sig pic).

My Hemi car was bought in person in the '80s; when I came back (400 miles) to get it, some of the Day2 parts had been removed, but he'd gotten it running & driving, and I drove it home.
Basically a wash on that, and it was a good deal. Heck, 35 years later, it was a great deal !

Most recent car purchase, I couldn't inspect personally; had several detailed phone conversations with seller, photos, video, again passed the interview.
He actually brought the car to me on his way to buy its replacement after I sent a deposit.
Several significant & obvious flaws he claimed to not know about, so price was re-negotiated. All the pre-purchase visuals carefully avoided the trouble spots
Subsequently also had to rebuild the trans, replace junk T-bars & rear springs, and fix other things that were outright lied about.
Dude was/is an absolute BS artist & liar (he's not an active Moparts member, BTW); but there's a lot of the car that's perfect, and I haven't seen another that I like better.
But it's apparent to me that society has changed.

Still, I know there are good & honest folks out there, just from dealing with some on this forum.

Thanks.

Broke a valve spring last year.... last I’ve heard of it. They actually bought the car to put the drivetrain into a B body from what I recollect. They raced it a few times, it worked, so they stayed with it. Probably a tree belt ornament now...