Please Help Deciding On Big Block Heads

I am trying to decide which heads to order. I don't have unlimited funding so I am trying to stay on as much of a budget is possible. I have been reading articles and forums for two weeks and still undecided. So far from what I have read I kind of have it narrowed down to these few. Indy 440-1, Trick flow 270, Indy Max Wedge EZ super prepped from Hughes. I am wanting to try to reach around that 800 H.P. range and around 7000 RPM range. I am going to be putting on new heads intake rockers and push rods and headers. I will write up what my old combo was and see what you guys think would be my best choice. 10.00 Basically is my E.T. Goal but would be happy with a little fast.

440 RB Stock Block, Billet steel main cap, Line Bored, ARP Main studs, Squared and zero decked
Eagle 4.150 Forged crank, H beam rods, SRP Flat top Piston at 0 Deck. 4.380 Bore makes it 4.99 C.I.
Doug Herbert solid roller cam 272/275 @ .50 .620 lift with 1.5 rockers
MP Stage 6 heads, Full hand port with 75 cc chambers and a matching M1 intake with built in valley Machined for 4500 Carb also hand ported and matched to heads, Heads flow roughly .330 @ .700 Thats all the guy said when I bought them years ago
Holley 1050 Dominator
Msd Pro Billet dist with 7 AL3 box
Hooker super comp 1 7/8 headers with 3" collectors
727 foot brake trans with 8" Coan converter flashes around 5000 RPM
Dana 60 with 3.73 Gears,
Leaf springs. Mopar HXD leafs with cal Tracs
Afco double adjustable shocks
325-50-15 Mickey T Drag radial.
3750 weight with me in it.
1.48 60', 6.60 in the 1/8 and 10.60's quarter

My goal is to run 10.00 or even 9.80 would be alright! Just trying to figure out which one is going to get me there. I really like the Trick flow but just don't want to be back to running 10.60's as I have 8 years woth of 10.60 time slips. I have tried lots of little stuff and seems to run 10.60's all the time no matter what I change.

swap pistons and cam and call it a day.

Two things to look at, the fuel supply first to make sure you have enough fuel for more air flow and second look at getting every part of the car lighter
As far as the heads the more air they will flow with enough fuel will make you more power
I swapped 4 different pairs of heads on my old pump gas Duster, the iron 906 ported big valve heads that flowed 266 @.700 on the intakes made the car run 10,69 at 124. MPH weighing 3450 lbs. with me in it. I put a set of CNC ported Eddy RPM heads on it that flowed 310 CFMM @.700 lift and it went 10.49 at 127 MPH with the same intake and carbs and same compression ratio, I had a fuel delivery problem that I fix and the car then went 10.30.
I had the motor out for freshening and dyno tested two different sets of Indy heads, a set of SR M.W. ports that flowed 340 CFM @ .700 and a set of 440-1 that had a lot of port work done on them that flowed 370 CFM@.700 also. They both had 76.0 CC C chambers so the compression ratio was raised from 10,29 to 1 with the iron and Eddy RPM heads with the 84.0 CC chambers to 10.78 to 1 with the smaller 76.0 chambers.
I used a Indy 400-3 intake on both sets of heads with the same 1050 CFM Holley Dominator, the SR heads made 727 HP at 7300 RPM and the 440-1 heads made 775 HP at 7500 RPM missing from 5200 RPM up to peak RPM due to the dyno header flanges being smaller than the exhaust ports where on the 440-1 heads it wasn't a dead miss, it was intermittent and not the same cylinders according to the EGT readings.
I put the 440-1 heads on a 526 C.I. 440 block bracket race motor I had and those heads made 70 more HP than the SR heads did on the same dyno, more air flow, more power
Make sure your headers will fit and work okay with the heads you decide to get, bigger exhaust flange holes than the exhaust ports are absolutely a must if you want more power Trust me on that, those dyno headers where only around .120 higher on the exhaust flanges on the bottom of the ports than the 440-1 heads where but those headers made those heads miss on both motors from a little over 5000 RPM up
Testing headers on the dyno we found that all the motors, never mind the C.I. size, compression ratio or RPM made more power with bigger pipes
I haven't done the same header testing at the track on a A,B,A test but I have been told by more than one hard core honest Mopar racers that their cars went faster with bigger pipes and collectors at the tracks we both raced on My current car has 2 1/8 to 2 1/4 primary pipe headers on it with a 4.0 collector, it has ran 8.86 at 150.+ MPH weighing right at 2800 lbs. with me in it, 5.50 ET at 120. MPH in the 1/8 mile
BTW, my next go fast bracket motor will have a set of B1-MC heads on it that flow a bunch of air
Good luck on your deal, speed cost money, time and work, how fast do you want to go

Good points Cab! I missed the header size in his post. Improvements to be made there.

So what heads would you prefer to make around that 800 hp mark on my combination? The original question. I have no heads at this point or rockers or headers or intake.

Sorry I assumed you had the stage 6 heads. Ive heard good things about the trick flows and -1s. Id like to try a set myself. But the stage 6s work fine for my combo.

I'd go for the 440-1 Indy heads (from someone like Dwayne Porter) w/ the Indy 440-3 intake and at east a 2" primary header w/ 3.5" collectors. Possibly change the cam to match if funds allow.
The -1 heads might not be the cheapest option, but they have the most potential.

Not seeing 800 HP in that combination with any of those heads.

If the Stage VIs are MW, I wouldn't rule out keeping them and building a better combination around them. I don't know what sort of bang-for-the-buck improvement you'll get going to the TF 270 or "super prep" Indy EZs.

You've got a lot of variables in play, so better be clear on your budget before you jump in. I could imagine it spiraling out of control quickly, depending on what parts choices you make. Too many unknowns to really take this much further right now.

So... what IS your budget?

As of right now I have about $4000 to spend. I still have a little time so I can keep saving. I was looking at buying the 440-1 as the kit. The stage VI were not the max wedge ports. At what horsepower do you guys think it will take to go 9.80's in a 3750 lb car?

770fwhp to go 9.80's. Bigger heads and a .700" roller are not going to peak at much less than 6500, more probably, your 3.73's won't cut it even with 28" slicks, 4.10's will put you around the 7000 trap with slip. Taller tyre?...less rpm.

How about taking some weight out of the car?

I really don't want to start gutting the car at this point. I was hoping to add some power. So you guys think these old stage VI heads will make around the same power as any of these other heads on my short block?

I don't think so...But I may be wrong.

Running 10.60 at 126 mph car seemed to be trapping at about 6500 with 3.91 gears . So when I built the Dana with big plans of spraying it I didnt want it to be trapping over 7000 so I decided to go with the 3.73 since there isnt a lot of gear options for the Dana. I thought if I can get it to run 10.00 with the 3.73 it would be getting right up around that 7000 range.

I think a fully ported set of -1s, a custom roller, bigger headers, and the -3 intake will get you there. Talk to Dwayne Porter. I was in the process of building a 4.25" stroke version of the same type of setup you have before I bit the bullet and built my KB block hemi. My car is similar weight and I also wanted 9s NA on pump gas.
My plan back then was a 511" RB w/ the big CNC ported Indy -1s.

Pretty tall order for that heavy of a car car but its possible - head choice for me would be the Indy 440-1 325 CNC or the 345 CNC heads if you went 540 CI - you will need at least 14-1 compression and more cam - then there is the whole stock block issue but I will not get into that - converter will need to be in the 56-5800 stall range - low gear planetary will help also to get it moving

I can run high 9.70's @ 139 in an all steel car full interior that weighs in at 3970 with me in it on 9" slicks and a 4:10 rear gear with cal-tracks 60' is 1.40 - 1.42 - but that is with a 572 HEMI

Reducing the weight will help more than anything!

I have been running 110 so race gas is no issue. This car see's basically no street miles and if I can get the compression up I will run c16 if I have to. I just assumed since these other heads all flowed so much better then mine to start with it wouldnt be that much work. I did already buy a new cam but not possitive I am going to run it. It is a 278@.50 with .660 lift. I figured I would end up with the new rockers being 1.6 ratio.

I did Fiberglass lift off hood and front and rear bumpers last year. Got me down to 3750! I does have interior with a back seat and seat belts.

If the efficiency of the car remained the same with the new combo as it did with the 10.60 combo....... you’re looking for another 130hp.

I’m not sure that’s feasible with a $4k budget.

A bottle would do it.

I said I have $4000 save up to to get started. The 440-1 kit is $4200 to start with. I didnt think I said I had a $4000 budget.

I would change headers to 2" 3.5s. With exhaust cutouts if your running exhaust

I would probably run a bit tighter converter with 4.10s

Ultimately losing some weight will help

No; I was thinking you have the MW version.

I'm sure with at least different heads, intake & headers, the car WILL go faster. However, I think you're looking at low 10s, not high 9s.

I'd love to be proved wrong, though.

If you are going with stock 440-1 heads you aren’t going to get anywhere near 800 horsepower. Cnc’d heads maybe.

You can get an idea on what’s involved for 800hp in that ci range:

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopp-1006-project-505-engine-block-jesel-comp-and-indy-hardware/

Every Mopar I’ve tested here that was in that hp range(750+) were all more cubes and were built using aftermarket blocks.

I do appreciate all the suggestions. Definately got me thinking! Now I really don't know what direction to go! My car is only good to run 10.00, I run it in a natural aspirated street class. Stock suspension, Drag Radial, exhaust and interior. Heads up.

Trick Flow 270s, Super Victor intake, 2" headers... if you can reuse your current rockers, that's probably getting close to $4K. Maybe start saving up for a cam upgrade in the future, if you still feel the need.

You'll have the potential to run far closer to that 10.0 limit than now, and who knows how quick you can run after it's dialed in. Sounds like the type of class I'd want to run in, too.

Coming from someone that has been there, done that really stop and think where you want to go, how much you want to spend, and how much you want to work on it. Right now with a bigger cam, more convertor, and a deeper gear you could go faster. But at what cost. I have three dusters. One that should run very low 8’s on nitrous. (Keith Black 572). I have a 505 mega block that I will hopefully finish one of these days that will run in the 8.80’s area. But I’m out having a blast in my almost zero maintenance 422 small block that has gone 9.40’s. It’s fun racing three day weekends and not even having to take the hood off. Take your time and above all, have FUN.

In my opinion, you need to know which stage 6 heads you have. They made standard ports and max wedge ports. Have your heads flowed and go from there. If you have the max wedge ports, there is no reason to go to -1 heads. Any of the trick flow or EZ stuff won't get you where you want be. Once the heads are flowed you can decide which cam to buy to maximize your stage 6 program. Don't spend anymore than you have to. Also, you have to be concerned about the stock block being able to handle the increase power level without breaking. I have gone from stage 6 heads to -1's. It wasn't that much of a power gain to warrant the extra cost unless you update to the 2.25 intake valve. At that point you may overpower your block without an aluminum main upgrade. Don't forget the converter needs to match!

I kind of think your 6.60 (1/8) should be faster in the 1/4 . I am at 10.40s and better for that sixty
Definitely I would go a 4.1 gear .
Heads ? your choice , at a 10.00 limit the 270 might be best bang for buck . If going to upgrade for faster may need bigger heads . If buying rockers you may as well buy 1.6s if reusing the cam you have to grab extra lift
2"headers will help . I run Dougs with exhaust to diff . I have to run mufflers and it is a street car .
Rear seat out in my 68 Satellite was about 40lbs or so

Tex

So after reading this and doing more research best bang for the buck to net me the most horsepower with basically heads out of the box setup correctly for my setup i am kind of leaning towards the trick flow. I dont know for sure. They seem to have some pretty good flow number out of the box. Seem to be a lot better then the stage 6 i had. Might need to do a little work to them to get the compression up. Maybe pick up a couple tenths with 1.6 rockers and big headers. Prob go with the super victor intake. Does this sound stupid? I sold my old heads so they are not a option.

Yeah, 800 hp with a stock block is just a time bomb. I think we might have made 50 dyno pulls or so at the 800 hp level with that engine before it cracked the main webs. I would not recommend starting with a stock block if the goal is 800 hp. 700 hp is fairly easy to achieve with TF270 heads and a healthy roller cam and a stock block will live for a season or two at 700 hp. That is where I'd stop if I was on a budget and couldn't afford an aftermarket block.

https://www.racingjunk.com/Big-block-complete/183988004/Indy-Max-ported-345-1-heads.html

Here is a nice set for the dollar amount you are wanting to spend.

No way do you need 800hp to run 9.80-10.00......you have 600 plus or minus now, you need about 700'ish......but with 3.73 gear at 3700lbs more torque is what you need imo.....

1024 cc swept
8cc for valve pockets
11 cc for head gasket
75cc chamber =1118cc
tdc vol 94cc=11.89 to 1
not going to get it done
You'll need really small chamber to get it to work
Need something in the 13 or 14 to 1 in my opinion
something around 60-65cc

which is why I originally opted for B1BS heads

800 hp on a stock block? time bomb!

I would buy the best head you can afford. to big of a head is not a problem, down the road you may want to build a little more hp. There is no sense in trapping yourself out. I would use indy 572-13. Down the road somebody will do for them what I did for the 600-13 head and you will already own them.

Agreed, he had me at 'stock block'.

Sorry but this is what happens when guys read the Ragazines off the book rack. Everybody makes 700 PLUS horsepower.

I see the TF heads have small exhaust valves has anyone thought about putting in bigger valves to help with flow

Why do that when you can increase the exhaust duration, if needed When the exhaust valve opens it has a bunch of cylinder pressure waiting to escape, open it sooner to let it out longer if needed
The B1 and B1 MC heads(2.40 intake) both have 1.75 exhaust valves is what I'm remembering

Not enough room in a wedge combustion chamber , as Cab said, I'll take a larger intake valve over a larger exhaust valve, to large & they touch.

Why do that when you can increase the exhaust duration, if needed When the exhaust valve opens it has a bunch of cylinder pressure waiting to escape, open it sooner to let it out longer if needed
The B1 and B1 MC heads(2.40 intake) both have 1.75 exhaust valves is what I'm remembering [/quote]

Cab I guess my line of thinking is on 516 heads they have small exhaust valves and 1st thing everyone talks about is putting in bigger valves to help it breathe, I know comparing 516 heads to trickflows isn't apples to apples but they are smaller than Indy EZ's and Victors

A lot of heads can flow a lot of air with a small valve. Take for example a small block 1.60 exhaust valve on a TrickFlow head. (240 cfm) Keep in mind a 2.02 Edelbrock intake valve out of the box maxes out at 243cfm on my bench. Way off topic but just using this as an example. Many guys would be happy with a 300cfm big block Edelbrock Head.

The heads on our motor flow well over 500cfm. Every time we found flow on the intake we got a good result. We have also spent a lot of money and time on the exhaust side with almost no gain. There is very little hp to be found on the exhaust and with headers. I don't think there is 15 hp between the best set of headers out there and the worst set. I would trade valve size from exhaust to intake anytime.