New Carrillo Rod Material

https://www.dragzine.com/features/p...debuts-two-new-connecting-rod-materials/

Interesting, at least from the standpoint of same or better strength with less size, as in stroker applications, and less weight...

Nice! Stronger, lighter con rods. I'll check them out for my next build.

Don't get me wrong I am sure they are fantastic. Just don't forget the Alloy Master Card when you call them.....

That's for the 1350 rods, the 1850 is the AMEX Centurion Card

No engineers here?

The Deusenberg?

Have you seen these? Good to 3000hp@15000rpm. I think these carbon fiber rods are for 4 cylinder apps, but they are available for what I understand for LS as well.

pre edit, re big end increase in stiffness salesman prior comment

Ok, I spill the beans, steel alloys vary little in thier stiffness, modulus of elasticity and all

Yep, all steels are around 30Msi modulus. Aluminum is around 10Msi, Titanium around 15Msi. Beryllium is the best, stiffer than steel, lighter than aluminum, yield strength isn't all that great though.

I asked Warren Johnson back in the late 1980s about carbon fiber rods. He said they were too stiff and beat the bearings out. It looks like that design allows some cushion in the design. I thought Polyspheric was an engineer from his posts.

Interesting profiling on the 1850 rod big end - I wonder what effect that has on oil leaving the bearing if any at all. I really wish they would show some real data from the lab to back up the big claims - its pretty easy to test rods on a universal to failure.

The little slip on the product presenter (PC term for sales person these days at trade shows) - is somewhat explained in the whole quote “The rods will be a little stiffer on the big end, because of the strength of the material. The housings will stay a little bit rounder and will maintain shape better, longer.” Most people do not understand the term stiffness when discussing metallurgy.

As far as carbon fiber rods - I was told just the opposite - they tend to be a little too elastic with oil temperature change - thus making it more difficult to keep the oil clearance needed to keep the bearing from becoming unhappy with the crank. However in 20+ years since that - there has been significant improvement in the arena of resins and how they construct the fibers. A couple of the NASCAR teams experimented with CF rods just for qualifying when they were allowed to do that and most went the titanium route.

Yeah, Titanium. Half the weight of steel, and what, twenty times the cost?

Maybe even more.

I've been accused of being stuck in a different time....I think I'll stay there.

I thought one of the downsides to a carbon fiber rod is that it doesn't have much safety zone for failure. It doesn't stretch or bend; it shatters.

Yes, that would be correct, but you can design around that, the biggest issue IMO, and already mentioned here, is it poor heat suitability as a con rod solution.

They have adapted it already to F1 transaxle cases, so its likely only a matter of time.

In the 80's, TF builders were experimenting with plastic push rods. There were strong and stiff that they pierced the rocker arms.

I would bet when they do break they don't do the damage to rest of the package as any kind of other rod would.

I was thinking the same thing. Might be a block saver.

LOL

Where would the piston/pin end up, both NA and blown in a CF total rod failure?

Exactly. I have seen first hand what damage a steel rod can do when it breaks. Destroyed my block, destroyed my oil pump, destroyed my roller cam, destroyed 2 pistons and another rod and oil pan. Think a carbon fiber rod would do that?

Ti rods have long been known to beat bearings up too. The real change in usage of materials has come from EFI. Every last serious racing engine ever built that used a carburetor is a detonation machine. They all det on the shift, and no prostock team ever solved it. EFI has, or can eliminate detonation. That is the only reason we see these crazy HP numbers with engine longevity.

TI rods used to beat the bearing out after a few passes on a big bad NA motor. Now they run for a season at 3 times the power with EFI .

A real world example is WJ would have to do top rings and rod bearings after 30 pulls on the dyno. Now 100+ is no big deal with EFI

Until they provide some real technical info it all rings hollow. They probably are using a different material in these rods but in what way? They say the cheaper ones are 22% stronger and the others 44% but the 4340 they reference is a heat-treat steel that you can make as strong as you want up to a point (where they would be quite brittle).
A couple of years ago I was researching rods and this company had been left behind. This is just a way to get some ink and new interest in their products. There's probably not a lot of substance behind it.


“The rods will be a little stiffer on the big end, because of the strength of the material. The housings will stay a little bit rounder and will maintain shape better, longer.” -Richard Batchelor, Connecting Rod Sales Manager

That's the kind of BS you get from a marketing/sales person, they tend to be full of it.

Is that the new 22% stronger or the new 44% stronger. Remember, more is better even without a basis for measurement.

Anyone have an idea what the new alloys are? I was thinking the 1350 alloy might be Maraging 350. The 1850 sounds like an Inconel or related number to me. Just a guess on my part from no real information other than the yield stress numbers.

https://www.magellanmetals.com/maraging-c350-vascomax-350

A PAPER PLATE?!?!?!?!

The Carrilllo rod goes on the fine china. Fer shame.