426 Hemi rebuild...

Thought I would share my progress with this.

Started out as a 426 'crate' engine. Supposed to be 9-1 compression but I measured it at 8.4-1.

I was running it with dual AVS2 carbs, exhaust manifolds and a dual 2.5" exhaust.

Cam was Comp 227-249 on a 107 lsa, hydraulic flat tappet.

Made 405rwhp on a Dynojet but nosed over hard at 6k. (Valvesprings were single with only 100lbs on the seat.)



Here is my plan which continually changes-

Edelbrock pro flo 4, 2x4 EFI

Spent about 30 hours now porting the iron heads. Concentrated on bowl and guide boss while also raising the port .090 to match the Edelbrock intake.

Need to get the guides done along with valve job and flow #'s still.

Ordered Morel "black mamba lite"solid roller lifters. Pressurized oil to the roller, no bearing or bushing.

Probably 260-ish @.050 cam with under .650 lift. Running stock rocker arms and thought it would be good to keep lift reasonable.

Plan to run lash caps. Does anyone ever order a slightly shorter valve to maintain geometry or non issue?

Ordered CP 4.31 bore pistons, 102cc dome. .043/.043 3mm. Will be 11.9-1

Will likely build headers as I want stainless but don't want to pay 2k for them.

That's it for now. Will update as I get further along.

Looks great - keep the updates coming !

Nice work on that iron, looking forward to flow numbers and updates.

Polishing the intake port walls leads to fuel separating from the air at idle and low air speeds, you might want to make them not so shiny now to help avoid that
I would check the lift at on all the valves at the retainers with checking springs to see how close your rocker arms are as far as their actual ratio are I've seen .130 lift differences when checking rocker arms from 4 different motors when I was blueprinting a NHRA stocker motor

Thanks guys.

Cab- Yes I was planning to check actual lift at all valves but good to know, that's quite a difference.

Being that it will be port injected I don't think the surface finish would be the cause of fuel separation in comparison to carbureted but the final finish on it was done with 36 grit sanding rolls so rougher than it looks.

What fuel do you intend to run in this?

93 mixed with e85 at 40-50% ethanol to start. Will reduce alcohol content from there as I get it dialed in.

Not concerned if it can't run well on just 93 octane and I suspect it won't.

If I decide it needs to at some point I can swap out the head gaskets from the .027's I'm starting out with.

I see your using a TREMEC transmission did you have to modify the torsion bar crossmember? I’m in the middle of putting in a Gforce G101a in my 69 charger and the shifter comes up straight through the crossmember. So I’m trying to figure out how to make a new crossmember so it joins back up.

No modifications to torsion bar crossmember, they notch the transmission just behind the shifter and the crossmember fits within that relief.

The car stuff is super cool and all but I'd really like to see more of that pretty looking shop, too.

Are you on garagejournal?

Or more pix here (I can't possibly be the only one)

Haha, thank you. I did have pics on garagejournal before photobucket ruined the internet.

I'll take some and update.

Kool. Looking forward to it.

Agreed...the photobucket thing definitely trashed a huge amount of formerly worthwhile information.

Well quick rundown is I bought a house that had a lot of garage space, this one was just an unfinished pole building, 36x47.

I replaced three of the trusses with curved trusses for lift clearance and built attic storage within the front two.

Had it spray foam insulated then covered the interior with steel panels called dura liner from Mendards. (same as outside skin but thinner). Easy to work with.

All led lighting. (except for string lights that I haven't taken down since my wedding)

Externally mounted heat and a/c unit. No windows so doesn't take much at all to keep at a nice temperature with the spray foam.

I did white epoxy/urethane which reflects light and makes things easy to find though I didn't do a clear topcoat which was a mistake as it shows scratches rather easily.

Wow! Nice setup.

I have garage envy

It amazes me how nice you can make a shop with enough money and desire
I'm not showing mine

makes mine look like the ghetto

Haha, thanks guys

Exactly!!
Big time!!

makes my shop look like an earthquake hit !

WOW VERY well done shop ,No more pictures of my car in the garage LOL,

Way back in the early 70's when Jack Roush was into Drag Racing that 4 door Maverick he put on a seminar and stated the same thing about over polishing the intake ports. Stated to match port the intake to heads , remove any big goobs and leave the rest of the head intake ruff. He was racing a Ford , but to me at that time made sense.

me either ...only the outside

My shop might have looked like that back in 1926 when it was built as a car dealership. It's only 10,000 square feet though, small by todays standards. Extra room? nope !!!!!!!.

Lmao, well thanks again guys, much appreciated.

10k sq/ft is mega! Having an old car dealer as a shop sounds awesome.

Ha! Wow

Well I'm glad I asked...that looks fantastic. Thanks for the pics.

Nice Clean Looking Shop!. I Know This Is a Mopar Site but I love that Caddy! I have one of those Bailey electric magnetic brakes as well. They're pretty sweet

Thanks again guys

Yes I don't use the Baileigh tools that often but definitely nice to have when you need it.

I don't have much of an update with the holidays but parts are coming in......

Are you using Edelbrock EFI or just the manifold? I've not seen too many positive reviews of their EFI when coloring outside the box they usually play in and that roller seems a good bit down the road and around the corner from that box.

Kevin

I'm using (well intend to use) their EFI. Part # 35670

I followed the pro flo 4 forum for a while and it seemed mostly positive feedback. Some guys running cams with 7-8in vacuum at idle with no reported issues.

System is rated at 825hp so you would think it could take some cam......but if not, I'll change the ecu it to something with full access to all parameters. (Dominator?)

Would still be able to use the entire setup minus the ECU and wiring harness and it's not a bad deal for those parts alone at the price I bought it for.

Progress is very slow!

Received the pistons finally.

Old piston-

Let me know when you're ready for a Holley.
fastmanefi.com

Tell us about your heating system in the pole barn

It's a 3 ton unit. Heat and A/C.

Progress still verrrry slow. I'm told the short block should be ready for assembly next week. Also finally have flow numbers so I will get to work on the camshaft. From SF600 flow bench.

Very nice, but that pool table is taking up space for another Mopar.

I'd sell the caddy and keep the pool table but the black cloth has gotta go.

Haha, can't sell the Caddy. Might eventually move the pool table to the basement but have 2 other garages so not out of space (yet).

Short is done. Getting the rest of the parts together to finish assembly.

Went with Holley efi and flex fuel so will be running E85.

Because of that I ordered .027 Cometics and milled the heads for 12.4-1 compression.

Got the accessories figured out. Ported the intake and drilled the intake for rails (drilled the rails as well).

I would still work outside if that was my garage (cleaner than my house) would be afraid of getting it dirty

That sure is some serious engine building.

Very nice, both the building and the hemi. I have racking over my tool boxes similar to you but some dummy (me) set that shelf too low and I bang my head on it when I look in the top of the box. Have to fix that before blood is shed.

and what fun would that be ?
my tool boxes are positioned similarly, and it's ALWAYS fun "rubbing" the hair [what's left] off the top of my head.

Coming along very nicely

What are the cam specs? Did you decide to go with pushrod oiling?

(won't be offended if you'd rather not say)

I could not build oil pressure with the same Morels in my world block at full lift. Due to the lifter design with the side cutouts. It pushed oil out like a sprinkler at full lift prelubing with a drill., I could not see the cutouts but close enough to the top it caused issues.. You might check it if you haven't. It may have just been the machining on my block but a different lifter design fixed it. Just passing it on because yours looks like mine in the pictures. Nice build, appreciate you sharing it.. I am doing close to the same EFI on my 572 hemi using holley dominator ecu and smart coils. Galen

Thanks guys.

Before I ordered the cam I measured the reliefs in the oil galleries to decide base circle and lobe lift. With .428 lobe lift on the intake it's .100 away from uncovering the oil gallery on both the base circle and at peak lift. Lifters measure .9035-.9036. Lifter bores .9052.

I did prime it already and everything looks very nice. No problem getting oil up to the top and nothing appears to be a 'gusher'.

I am running pushrod oiling.

Cam Motion ground the cam. I asked for 268/268 @.050 on a 112 lsa. Bob ground it 262/262 @.050 as it's a low lash lobe (.010 hot) and he said that would be rather comparable to the 268 I wanted if it were a standard lash cam.

So it's 262/262 @.050 112lsa .428/.421. Measured .658/.612 at the valve. I installed it at 107 ICL. PSI 1575 springs (1.4" OD) with Xceldyne ti locks/retainers. Intake 245lbs at 1.83 on the seat, 613 open. Exhaust 256 at 1.81 on the seat, 598 open.

Galen I suspect you are running a bit more lobe lift than me. It would help if the lifter bores didn't have a huge chamfer on the top. Yours sounds like a nice build! I'm going to try Ford Coyote coils.

Good deal I'm glad you didnt have the same issue, I could not tell from the pics if yours was cut as deep as mine on top or not. I really liked the looks of the morel lifters . It was the world block , wedge head on my old 65 belvedere. They did get carried away on the countersink cut at the top of the lifter bore on mine. Lobe lift on that engine was in the .450+ range if I remember correctly. I just got the KB block back from machining for the hemi. I went ahead and had lifter bushings put in it with a .028 oil hole.. I have the same tone wheel, cam sync etc. that you have. I got everything from Rich Nedbal including two accufab throttle bodies. my intake is the stage V. I am still in the mock up stage though and quite a ways behind you., wiring, plumbing etc. I have a couple of cams I am going to try with the Efi I am putting in the 262/270@.050 Lift .710/.690 on 114lsa. Also have a 270/276@.050 .704/.690 on a 112lsa we may try down the road. My wife is in love with that Caddy by the way.

Dang my lifter's look short next to yours. If it hadn't been together for 10 years I would be scared they wouldn't work. Lol

Galen, I bought my parts from Rich as well. My vote would be for your 2nd cam considering your engine size. And thank you, the Cadillac is pretty beat up but it's a good old car.

second 70-

Not to far away from my cam! Events on mine are

IVO 24
IVC 58
EVO 68
EVC 14

I'm ready when you are to tune that SOB!
Great progress..I normally use the Crower Enduramax lifters that oil through the pushrod as well as high pressure to the roller. Never had one fail. Keep the pics coming.

Thanks Rich! Too many projects so working at a glacial pace....

Turning out really nice. anxious to hear how Rich's tuning goes. I'm plugging along but your glacial pace is making my pace look really slow.

Very nice

Nice work with the coil mounting. clean!

What kind of coils are they?

Thanks guys!

The coils are Ford coyote.

were any mods needed for the coil to the spark plug length ?

Yes the boots have to be shortened a bit. I'll get you a measurement.

Is that a red Ferrari in the backround?

Jeez, a hemi AND a Ferrari, I feel so inadequate...LOL

Good for you!

Joe Latessa, yes, I'm Italian

so you are familiar with the word "FRA GEE LEE", yes ?

My son puts one of those legs in his front window every Christmas,
so yes, I'm familiar.

Funny, that thing was delivered to him in the same box as the movie....

Joe

Haha, yes it's an old F355. Thank you.

I trimmed .125 off of the end of the coil. Also shortened the top of the plug tubes by .200.

The threaded spacers to mount the coils are .400 thick.

Very cool!

With the coil on plug setup do you use a distributor? I can't see what's under the distributor hold-down.

Thanks. No distributor, just a cam sensor that Andy makes.

thank you for the info !
i'm not sure i can ever use it, but it's nice to know a relatively easy coil-on-plug setup can be installed on a hemi and look good as well.

I moved the engine to a rolling table, installed clutch and flywheel. Did a cranking compression test on one cylinder just out of curiosity.

Also didn't like the look of the vacuum pump relief valve so put it inside a breather.

Also Brian Smith designed some header flanges for me but was unable to find someone to machine them for less than $1400 Not really sure where to go with that so may just bail on my header building idea and order some TTi's.

That EFI/COP setup is so beautiful this thread should be put in the tech archives for later reference.

Hasn't been much interest in maintaining the tech archives....And once it is archived, nobody can reply to it.

I would suggest, at whatever point it's comfortable to move, that it should be moved to the Member's project area instead.
It's over here
Supposedly pictures will be saved as long as the servers keep running, and the thread can be replied to continuously.

Great thread !

As an aside, I believe the OEM AUDI/VW coil packs are a direct fit and don't require trimming like the Coyote coils do. It would perhaps depend on whether you are using Indy or Stage V heads as I believe the Indy plug tubes are taller.

I will be going down the EFI path at a later time on my 572 and am collecting parts atm.

The breather cap / relief valve is positively inspired.
The whole project is pretty awesome , but those little touches are what shoves a project to the front of the line for me.
Very nice !

Well thank you, much appreciated.

I originally made a bracket (that I didn't take photos of) to brace the top alternator mount to the water pump..... Then noticed after tensioning the vacuum pump it was easily flexing on it's studs if I pulled on the belt.

Hmmm, don't like that.

Toss alternator support bracket in the trash and start over to include vacuum pump. Very solid now.

Finally caved and ordered some TTi headers. Very impressed by the construction and fitment. Thick flat flanges, not just a ground down weld beat at each port.

I welded o2 bungs in them and had them coated locally. Color is called "titanium" and they say rated for 1800deg. Installed with my favorite sealant, Toyota FIPG and no gaskets. Also used Zircoflex ceramic heat shield around the starter.

What bell housing and the size of clutch?

It is a Keisler bellhousing. Clutch is a Mcleod 6911-07 which is dual organic discs of 9.688 diameter.

Some more photos. Everything fits well so far. Also wired up an output to a relay to use the hood turn signal lights as a shift light as well

very nice

Thank you, much appreciated

Your efi wiring looks better than mine, it was hard to find a good routing, I have so many relays ,diodes ad ons under the hood, it looks like a wiring factory exploded LOL

That still looks awesome! Mine was similar before a few miles of split wire loom. I took apart the entire Holley harness to add as much as I could within it then re-loomed.

that looks real neat and clean .
CSK - that looks like my engine bay . except i dont have AC or EFI

Tex

So is that a TKO 5 speed you have on the bench? Just wondering if you might step up to the new TKX with improved innards.
Looks great and I'm very impressed at your attention to the small details That dual disc clutch is really going to put a beating on that transmission.

Gus

Thank you! The trans is a TKO 600. In part some of the reasoning behind what I did (keeping displacement smaller and aiming for higher rpm) was to keep peak torque to a point that it wouldn't immediately destroy the trans.

If that plan fails I would move to a different trans altogether, I believe the TKX is still rated at 600ft/lbs.

The clutch should be the softest way of transmitting the power as it's a light pressure plate and organic discs. (IMO a heavy pressure plate and aggressive disk material could be more grabby and put more of a spike in tq to the driveline)

I have really enjoyed reading your progress. I got the same headers bare also. I had to cut and relocate the collector to clear the 4L80, The titanium coating looks good.. Yours is turning out really nice, very clean.

Very nice. I like the whole EFI conversion. EFI with dual 4500 throttle bodies will be my next upgrade someday.

Thanks guys! ^ Looks awesome I have nothing against carbs, just thought EFI would work better with E85 (or at least easier having a composition sensor vs having to test the fuel).

For exhaust, I bought a "stainless" system from ebay a while back. It's not stainless and not entirely sure it was made for this car. Had to cut up every part of it to make it fit. Used some 3.5in bends from the headers, reduced to dual 3in near the crossover. Pypes "race pro" mufflers (which despite their name I find to be quiet), and stock style tips from Accurate exhaust.

All coated in the same finish as the headers.

Also made some brackets to mount the Spal fans to the radiator.

About damn time

that is awesome, seems very responsive on the throttle! Great work!
Matt

Thanks! Ended up making 595 to the tires, pulled to 7600 limiter.

Your attention to detail is incredibly impressive. That is the nicest '69 Charger build I've ever seen!!!

Not sure it's deserving of that but thank you

when you say it pulled to 7600 limiter, that's what those need to see and hear in the Hemi vs 440 thread. The difference in the hemi upstairs is amazing. Also I could not help but notice the San Francisco dodge tag holder, If you turn over a Pioneer Dodge San Jose tag frame reasonable give me a shout. That is where my 66 coronet came from.

Matt

Here is mine to 7600.

https://www.facebook.com/193108010854372/videos/652818031550032/

Very impressive build! Hope to see it at a local show or cruise your close to my area.

Are those Coyote coils (dumb coils)? So you had to use Holleys drivers correct?

Thanks, John.

Thanks John! I've been driving it so will probably see you around. And yes, I used the Holley coil drivers.