Will this stock stroke 440 make 700hp?

I have a 446 I’m putting together currently and want to see what you guys think it will make horsepower wise
10.700 deck
3.75 crank
7.100 rod
14.5:1 .030 dome piston
Eddy m/w victor Cnc port heads 332 cc 2.25 int 1.81 exh
Heads flow 375 at .750 lift
.705 lift cam 282/292 110 centerline
PAC 1225 springs
1.6 rockers
Eddy super victor intake
1050 dominator
Single line external oil pickup

Well start out by figuring you have what .660-.675 max lift after subtracting valve lash, pushrod deflection, and angle loss. Now It’s at that lift for a split second so how well do the heads flow at .550 and .600 lift.

335 at .550 343 at .600

Looks like a fun build. Hopefully it’s an aftermarket crank and a ported intake

Maybe. You have lots of compression so that will help. Cam seems too big for that size of engine so I'm not sure how well it will work. With that big of a cam you might not build enough torque in the mid range to carry the numbers up high. You'll just have to give it a try and see. You might end up needing less duration and more lift to make big numbers. Good luck, let us know how it runs.

Whose MW Victor CNC program?

What's the combination of the car it's going in?

It should make 700.

650-800....... depending on where it’s tested.

Scott at competition components
a body

Yep ported intake forgot that.

[quote=Roughbird72] [/quote

BEST answer EVER

My mates 3150lb Dart ran a best of 10.12@132+change = 600fwhp, spec was
446, 12.5:1, Eddy's flowing 320's@600, MP purple .590 solid 271@.050
iron rockers, so prob only (.550" lift with lash/ratio etc.) Victor int. 1050 Dom...

If your similar weight? and run 139>140 then thats 700fwhp..only way you'll really know, stating the obvious.
wallace calc, others may differ.

You can pick up some easy hp with a Tunnelram and 2 carbs.

Whatever it makes, I expect it's going to be at well over 7000 RPM and will require around a 6K converter and plenty of gear to keep the RPM up down track.

My RB 452 has standard port Victors and a 265 at .050 roller; peak HP 6900 and peak torque 5100. Even though you have 3 points more compression, the bigger ports and much bigger cam are going to shift your peak RPM #s up way higher than mine.

Unless that is a dyno proven package there is no guarantee that the torque peak from that huge cam will match the torque peak from the large ports. OP will need to get it on the dyno and see what happens. If it is a dog then pull 10 degrees out of the cam and try it again. Of course, this might not be true for certain types of race cars. Some class guys run huge cams and spin the engine way past the torque peak just to squeeze the last bit of ET out of a combo. But the OP didn't appear to be building such a combination so I'm not sure what sort of advice to provide.

What are you using for fuel

It would be interesting to see just where the tq peak occurs, and how big the number is.

The combo looks to me like it would be best suited towards a dragster, or another pretty light car with a trans brake.

A RB451 I built with MW port SR’s that flowed noticeably less than the OP’s Victors, 13:1cr, Indy 440-3, 1050 carb, a cam about 10deg smaller with .650 lift and my dyno headers made 712hp@7200.
Peak tq was at 5500.......right about 600ft/lbs.

Found the sheet:

I ran MW heads with a cam in the 280 range on my 514 with 15:1 compression and made well over 800 hp. But I'm not sure what would happen if you took those same parts and put them on a 440. You can argue that it should make roughly the same power at just a higher RPM, but it doesn't always work out that way. I'll be interested in seeing what the dyno sheets show. I do agree that if the OP's combination works, it is going to require a ton of stall.

I talked to a NHRA SS guy a few years back who was racing a 440+6 combo. He had roughly 10:1 compression, legal heads, exotic intake and a camshaft in the 280 range. Said it worked but he had zero torque below 5000 rpm.

I remember Paul Rossi and some other SO CA six pack NHRA SS racers in the early to mid 1080 saying they shifted there motors sat or close to 5500 RPM with the two piece bolt together Weiand six pack intake with O69J converters
Paul was testing T/A converters at Orange county on a Wednesday night before the first divisional race over in Phoenix in 1979 later that week, he would leave at a idle and pull the front tires way up and long in first gear in his 1971 Challenger
My pump gas 400 stroker motor with a stock low deck six pack intake with stock type 440 vacuum carbs like to be shifted above 7000 RPM to make the car goes as fast as it would that solid roller cam was 260@.050 on the intake lobes with .420 lobe lift and it had 266@.050 on the exhaust with .409 lobe lift ground on a 108 LSA installed 1 to 2 degrees advance depending on which lobes I check
I dyno tested that motor on three different brands of engine dyno in three different towns, Ontario,CA on DTS engine dyno in Madras, OR. on a Studka brand engine dyno and in Klamath Falls, OR at 4300 Ft elevation on a new(at that time) DTS the last time. It would make peak torque either at 4500 or 4600 rpm with peak HP at 5500 or 5600 RPM regardless of which brand dyno or at what elevation I had two different sets of heads on that motor with the six pack, I later swapped the heads to a set of Indy SR M.W. ports with a Indy 400-3 intake with a 1050 CFM Holley Dominator carb, which made some more HP and torque at a lot higher RPM with the same cam. Those changes pick the car up around .25 ET and 8 MPH

Planning on c16

I’m probably going to advance the cam a couple degrees

4 degrees usually works great for me and I would hate your fuel bill. Lol. Why not alcohol

I have no experience with that stuff

I think if I advance it the cam should work okay

A friend ran a 440" with a similar cam in his 3000lb GTX. Had -1 heads,11.5-1 on alcohol.Never dynoed. Ran 6.20s, left very lazy. Swapped to a 268 duration cam went 5.95 1st time out. Raised the launch rpm and bent the front suspension coming down from a huge wheel stand on the next pass.
Doug

Use at least 3/8" diameter x 0.120" wall pushrods.
Seems like alot of duration on the cam, but it sounds like the engine is going to rev over 7,000 RPM?
Make sure the heads have the long / deep thread inserts for the rocker shaft studs. On my first set of MW victors (early castings), I broke the center rocker shaft stand on both heads.
We modified the rocker stands by milling off the original stands and using the MW type rocker stand blocks which also allowed up to adjust the rocker shaft height.

My second set of MW Victors had longer thread inserts in the rocker stands which should be better, but not wanting to take chances, we converted that head over to use the billet aluminum MW style rocker shaft stand blocks.
Not sure if you already have the rocker arms, but now you can get a paired rocker 5/8" shaft rocker arm system that should be more stable (less flexing) than the single shaft rocker arm system.

Should make 700+ HP, but watch the High RPM power curve for valve train stability issues.

Did your buddy have his cam advanced any?

I believe it was 4 advanced.
Doug

Well I have a 4.30 gear in the back still debating on tire size 28-29.5 but I’m sure I could get it to leave with a smaller tire having more gear but don’t know if I would run out of rpm up top

the quickest and best way to find out is to go run it

I really think it should. This 451 consistently made 750+ hp on unleaded pump gas.

750+ horsepower 451

The motor now sits in a storage room. Lol. Another dyno queen story.

I actually just talked to a friend of mine that makes custom grind cams and he’s Going to do one up for me 272 /282 at 50 700 lift 110 centerline

Pittsburgh-guy, You have pretty decent resume. I'm no fancy racer and I now live on Social Security. I'm just a backyard engine mechanic who can't even afford to go racing. But in 2009 I was pretty proud of what my son and I did in an unheated two car garage and a master bedroom turned into a clean room for assembly. To this day I'm still proud of it.

In 2004 my son brought me the Dec.1982 Popular Hot Rodding magazine that had an article on a 440 that his grandpa built and said, "Hey, Pop did this back in '82, can't we do something like it?" I told him we needed cylinder heads. He got out his grandpa's old flow bench and began destroying cylinder heads, had a pallet of ruined ones when he brought me a set of iron 452's. They were good enough for us to make 621 HP and 588 LB-FT on pump gas with our first 451 engine. It went into the '71 Road Runner and drove around on the street for awhile. Eventually it made 554 RWHP with 906 iron heads using the same shortblock we used in all the dyno contests. When doing some tests for a contest, where we built a 500 wedge, the 451 made 694 flywheel horsepower @ 9.7:1 compression with 906 iron heads.

We entered the 2009 dyno contest held at Comp Cams because we were head hunting Indy Cylinder Heads. The year before the spec heads were Indy heads (SR I believe) and they let Indy Cylinder Heads enter the contest with their own heads. Guess who won? I thought that was kinda corny and so we entered the next year hoping Indy was going to be there again. No such luck. I guess they weren't interested to see how much power they could make with the spec'd Edelbrock RPM head for that year. Our "queen" made 135 HP more than the next closest 451 and only 1 HP less that the highest horsepower engine in the contest, a 500ci engine.

In it's lifetime so far the "dyno queen" probably made some 200+ pulls from the first to the last with approximately 50 pulls over 700 HP. It now rests in the 1/2 ton 4x4 shop truck with 452 iron heads and de-tuned to 580 horsepower. "Dyno Queen"? I'm proud of our Dyno King!

It still comes down to the numbers at the track. We all know numbers on a flowbench or DYNO have been know to lie a little with a tweek here or a tweek there. The interwebs and RAGAZINES are full of high horsepower numbers till the rubber hits the pavement.

Man you're rough PR. The OP asked if his high comp 440 would top 700 hp. Mr.LaRoy stated it should based on his experience. Many others offered their opinion. No et goal was stated by OP.

A little off topic but I wish jerks like you had a pair enough to throw your hat in the ring of an engine contest.(But you never would) You should win easily with your flow bench developed La eddys. Oh wait you just poo pooed flowbenches. Then again your flowbench never lies does it? Just everyone else's.

I bet you would have a whole different outlook on things. But alas, you are just an old guy that has a flyweight , very well sorted chassis that would run in the 11's with a stock 318 out of a '81 Mirada. Give yourself a big pat on the back. J.Rob

Dyno King is a good name for that engine. That was a good one. I was never able to get within sniffing distance of 700 hp with Edelbrock heads. I don't think I ever got much over 600 hp with any of my RPM headed engines. Once the Trick Flow heads came out I was able to make 700+ pretty easily. Your set of Edelbrock heads were definitely a high water mark. That engine really knocked them over at the EM.

FWIW I would expect this thing to pretty easily make 700 hp. It's not going to be a low rpm grunt motor by any means though.

With a 5,000 Stall converter who cares about low end grunt

I know what you're saying , but I'd expect a 5,000 stall to be too tight for this motor. My old 446" used a 5k stall w/ smaller heads and a lot less cam.

Seems reasonable and my 470 junk loves my .680-.660 276-281 @ .050 ISKY solid roller both street and strip for many trouble free years in the 9's and a blast to drive.....

Am I crazy or is 7000rpm with a stock 440 block going to crack the mains?

In over 20 years of running 8.60’s-10.40’s I cracked one block and that one was a 500 inch Stroker engine with 440source billet main caps. No concrete, no girdle. Now I did crack several 440 forged cranks and got to the point if I got 3 years out of them they went on my scrap pile

Probably not, especially with a good balanced rotating crank assembly and a decent tune.
Detonation is the major cause of cracking the main webbing in 440 blocks, not RPM

I would have never bet that my 15-1 comp 572 would need a 6100 converter. 5700 was to tight. Unless you're talking Q16 there us no reason to run C16. I've had zero issues with Renegade 114.
Doug

Question: Assuming two engines make the same peak HP, what's more stressful on a bottom end?
a) 7500 RPM with a 3.75 stroke (451)
b) 6500 RPM with a 4.25 stroke (511)

Not meant to be a quiz; I'm curious about what's more likely to put the hurt to a marginal block.

Personally I think bob-weight will play a bigger hand than stroke - in the last 511 I built - we got the bob weight below 2200 grams using the 7.1 rod and a 4.25 crank in an stock RB block - I also believe in aluminum main caps. The first 511 stroker I built with stock rod journal and rod length had a bob-weight of almost 2500 grams - it beat the stock main caps to death even with studs.

If its a light weight assembly and well balanced and not running into detonation- 7500 RPM does not seem to make much difference

FWIW...

3.75 x 7500 = mean piston speed 4688 ft/min; max 7363 ft/min
4.25 x 6500 = mean piston speed 4604 ft/min; max 7232 ft/min
4.25 x 7000 = mean piston speed 4958 ft/min; max 7788 ft/min

https://www.racepagesdigital.com/pi...ctive-forces-at-work-inside-your-engine/

I guess this is probably a dumb question, but can you calculate the max piston speed without knowing the rod length?

Also I think what really matters is max accel/decel

Me thinks the rod length has nothing to with the piston speed, the stroke and RPM does though
I've heard that the rod length makes a difference on the piston speed at when changing directions on the stroke at BTDC and again at TDC but I've never understood that thinking
I can understand the cylinder wall loading differences between a short rod and a long rod with the same stroke

Rod length affects dwell time at TDC & BDC; not required as an input for mean & max piston speed calculators.