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Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 11/20/19 02:55 AM

More good news

Attached picture 26F94EF9-45AC-4FE6-B7DE-82A26E8DB21B.jpeg
Posted By: BSB67

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 11/20/19 11:16 AM

Those look beautiful.
Posted By: sgcuda

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 11/20/19 11:37 AM

Finally. After 50 years! boogie
Posted By: dthemi

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 11/20/19 11:50 AM

Unless something has changed structurally with them to make them stronger than their original offering, I'd be careful about building a race motor with those.
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 11/20/19 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by dthemi
Unless something has changed structurally with them to make them stronger than their original offering, I'd be careful about building a race motor with those.

Can you explain or elaborate on the power level you're referring to? You build way more powerful stuff than the average Mopar guy does Darren, lol.
Posted By: fbs63

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 11/20/19 01:45 PM

The main bulkheads are very thin below and between the cylinders.
Posted By: fast68plymouth

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 11/20/19 02:37 PM

If the BM blocks are just like the aluminum MP were ....... there doesn’t seem to be any issues at the 900hp level.
Posted By: BradH

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 11/20/19 02:43 PM

Any known P I T A items (issues?) with the old MP-by-World aluminum blocks that Bill Mitchell looks to be reproducing?
Posted By: dthemi

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 11/20/19 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by fbs63
The main bulkheads are very thin below and between the cylinders.



I've only freshend one of these first hand so what I saw was as mentioned, weak in the web, and deck. I have seen 2 broken ones, and one so poorly machined that the rear main seal top, and bottom could not physically align.The broken ones were in spray use, but nothing a good mega block couldn't have taken (maybe 1400hp). Like without a diaper they could have ran the crank over. Some said it was sub par studs, but the look to me was weak block, in the deck too.
Posted By: dthemi

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 11/20/19 03:48 PM

Here's something from them in09,,read this and tell me if this sounds like,,,' I'll just pee on your leg, then calmly explain to you it's raining"





FROM BME WORLD PRODUCTS

it seems it been discovered the world blocks were using ARP bolts and not "ARP" studs and they admit it...... check your world blocks carefully!

Gentlemen,

I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Paul Kaufman. I have worked for World Products as a technical representative and engine builder for approximately a decade. I have been building engines professionally for the better part of my life with over 40 years experience in both the private industrial sector and performance speed industry. I have been asked to express my opinion ( and that of World Products ) regarding concerns some of you may have with the main studs utilized on the Mopar iron and aluminum Hemi and Wedge blocks manufactured by World Products. World has manufactured several thousand of both the iron and aluminum blocks in the last few years and recently we have heard that some of these studs have failed when torqued. I have personally assembled many of the Hemi and Wedge engines at World Products, and have not had any issues. I would love to be able to say that there are many torque wrenches that are being used that were manufactured in third world countries and that is the problem, but that would be unfair. World Products does not manufacture studs nor do we import inexpensive hardware from China. The studs used on the Mopar iron blocks are to Mopar's engineering specs and our engineers determined those studs to be of sufficient quality for use on World Products aluminum blocks as well. These studs are not ARP. More recently World Products chose to switch to the ARP brand studs, not because we found them to necessarily be better, but to align ourselves with the hardware being utilized on our Chevy and Ford blocks. I would like to point out that over the years I have experienced failure with hardware manufactured by ARP, but grab another one and move on. I have also experienced a rod breaking or a lifter failing, all from big name brand manufacturers, but that doesn't mean the sets of parts were all defective. The point is sometimes rods break, lifters fail and bolts and studs stretch, break, threads gall, etc. It is the nature of metal objects that have been cast, poured, machined and manipulated that a small percentage will fail, regardless of who manufactured the item. If you find one defective stud that does not mean all the studs are bad. As with most manufacturers, World Products has a warranty policy. Should you find any defect in any of World Products parts or components within one year of purchase simply contact us and we will be more than happy to exchange that defective part. If you would like to change out your hardware to a complete set of ARP studs, you can purchase them from your local ARP dealer or retailer. The caps are located by ring dowels and block registers. The line bore will not be affected. The torque rating on the ARP studs remains the same. Thanks for your time, Paul
Posted By: blowndart

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 11/20/19 03:56 PM

Their website states that the newer blocks are supposed to have gone through some re-design over the last year+ from the previous generation to make it better. Anyone interested in buying one should ask them what the re-design entailed.
Posted By: rickseeman

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 11/20/19 04:35 PM

Well, they look beautiful on the skid.
Posted By: fast68plymouth

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 11/20/19 04:46 PM

After getting to freshen the two 900hp 572’s I built from MP/World blocks....... I’d have no hesitation using them again for similar builds.
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 11/20/19 04:58 PM

A BM block was recently delivered to Las Vegas.....FWIW I have one living just fine at 1200HP NA in my Stratus. There were some things we had to fix with machining but nothing more than a typical Indy block needs.
Posted By: dthemi

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 11/20/19 07:53 PM

Are there changes in them from intial offering?
Posted By: Wookie316

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 11/22/19 05:01 PM

I am currently working on a 572 based off an original block.
It will probably be in the 800 range with a set of 440-1’s that Dwayne has done for me.
Should be a great bracket motor in my 71 Charger.
Molnar Crank and rods. Diamond pistons. It will be about 14-1.
At this power level, I do not have any worries. Should hold together well.
Hoping it will be on the dyno in Feb.
Posted By: cesar perez

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 11/22/19 05:16 PM

Are they available in aluminum and how much
Posted By: JACK1440

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 11/22/19 05:52 PM

My block is about 3 years old. It dyno'd just under 900hp but, doesn't have a lot of run time on it yet due to some issues with the block and some issues with my heads. I just got back together but, it looks like mother nature isn't going to work with me this year. My issue was with the block was oiling..... The first go round it cost me a rotating assembly and ended up with 2 sleeves. Bill did work with me and covered the block repairs. I had to buy another assembly and bumped the cu in to 572 since I had bought a good flowing pair of 440-1's. Before going back together we ran gun drills thru some of the oil passages because we found they weren't intersecting that great. She's oiling great now. The block is a nice piece otherwise. Just like I was told on here. You have to have someone knowledgeable go thru the block good before assembly. twocents
Posted By: blowndart

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 11/22/19 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by cesar perez
Are they available in aluminum and how much

https://www.billmitchellproducts.co...lock-10-720-deck-4-490-bore-billet-caps/
Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 11/25/19 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by fbs63
The main bulkheads are very thin below and between the cylinders.


I can remember two actual complaints...some had paper thin spots that could be broken through easily with a sharp object.
(So that means a whole lot more than two were really out there)

The response from the ivory tower was, the product was developed using FEA, and the thin areas in the mains were, at that time, considered deliberate.

I was also given examples of several builders who deliberately opened up/machined away those thin areas which I was told was for a reduction in Windage losses.

This wasn't a debatable topic at that time, and these are not my ideas. The corporate Gods had spoken, LOL.
I'm just the messenger so don't shoot.

for the price charged, I'd prefer overbuilt rather than under.
Posted By: cuda499

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 11/27/19 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by dthemi
Originally Posted by fbs63
The main bulkheads are very thin below and between the cylinders.



I've only freshend one of these first hand so what I saw was as mentioned, weak in the web, and deck. I have seen 2 broken ones, and one so poorly machined that the rear main seal top, and bottom could not physically align.The broken ones were in spray use, but nothing a good mega block couldn't have taken (maybe 1400hp). Like without a diaper they could have ran the crank over. Some said it was sub par studs, but the look to me was weak block, in the deck too.



This is all true
Posted By: MikeN

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/05/19 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by ZIPPY
Originally Posted by fbs63
The main bulkheads are very thin below and between the cylinders.


I can remember two actual complaints...some had paper thin spots that could be broken through easily with a sharp object.
(So that means a whole lot more than two were really out there)

The response from the ivory tower was, the product was developed using FEA, and the thin areas in the mains were, at that time, considered deliberate.

I was also given examples of several builders who deliberately opened up/machined away those thin areas which I was told was for a reduction in Windage losses.

This wasn't a debatable topic at that time, and these are not my ideas. The corporate Gods had spoken, LOL.
I'm just the messenger so don't shoot.

for the price charged, I'd prefer overbuilt rather than under.


If the block was computer designed, what strength was specified? Like peak cylinder pressure, torque etc.
Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/05/19 08:17 PM

The answer falls under the blanket of "proprietary information".

Note I'm not saying I agree with it, but this is what I was presented with at that time.
Posted By: powertrip

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/05/19 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by cuda499
Originally Posted by dthemi
Originally Posted by fbs63
The main bulkheads are very thin below and between the cylinders.



I've only freshend one of these first hand so what I saw was as mentioned, weak in the web, and deck. I have seen 2 broken ones, and one so poorly machined that the rear main seal top, and bottom could not physically align.The broken ones were in spray use, but nothing a good mega block couldn't have taken (maybe 1400hp). Like without a diaper they could have ran the crank over. Some said it was sub par studs, but the look to me was weak block, in the deck too.



This is all true


I e-mailed Bill Mitchell and got an immediate reply: These new blocks have been proven to 2000 HP with no issues.

Sounds strong enough for me, and comes without the Indy attitude, and the extra $1500 for a KB that you can't get anyway.
Posted By: rickseeman

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/05/19 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by powertrip


I e-mailed Bill Mitchell and got an immediate reply: These new blocks have been proven to 2000 HP with no issues.

Sounds strong enough for me, and comes without the Indy attitude, and the extra $1500 for a KB that you can't get anyway.


I have a new KB 4.500" bore hemi block (probably 7 years old) and a new Bill Mitchell 4.500" hemi block that I might sell soon. Also 2 NOS iron hemi blocks if anybody needs them. One is 4.500" bore mega block and the other is a 4.19" no lifter machining block. I guess like they use for Super Stock or other high output applications so they can spread the lifters. I live out in the country and am thinking about taking an extended leave of absence and getting a little antsy about leaving such easy to steal items laying out there while I'm gone.
Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/05/19 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by rickseeman
Originally Posted by powertrip


I e-mailed Bill Mitchell and got an immediate reply: These new blocks have been proven to 2000 HP with no issues.

Sounds strong enough for me, and comes without the Indy attitude, and the extra $1500 for a KB that you can't get anyway.


I have a new KB 4.500" bore hemi block (probably 7 years old) and a new Bill Mitchell 4.500" hemi block that I might sell soon. Also 2 NOS iron hemi blocks if anybody needs them. One is 4.500" bore mega block and the other is a 4.19" no lifter machining block. I guess like they use for Super Stock or other high output applications so they can spread the lifters. I live out in the country and am thinking about taking an extended leave of absence and getting a little antsy about leaving such easy to steal items laying out there while I'm gone.


Just PM me your address and I will be happy to watch them for you wink
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/05/19 10:21 PM

How much for each
Posted By: rickseeman

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/06/19 03:45 AM

I paid $6,000 for the SS block and I think $6,000 for the KB with freight and I believe $5,800 for the Bill Mitchell. I'm willing to sell them for what I paid. Someone already bought the other block.
Posted By: rickseeman

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/06/19 03:45 AM

Originally Posted by GTX MATT
Originally Posted by rickseeman
Originally Posted by powertrip


I e-mailed Bill Mitchell and got an immediate reply: These new blocks have been proven to 2000 HP with no issues.

Sounds strong enough for me, and comes without the Indy attitude, and the extra $1500 for a KB that you can't get anyway.


I have a new KB 4.500" bore hemi block (probably 7 years old) and a new Bill Mitchell 4.500" hemi block that I might sell soon. Also 2 NOS iron hemi blocks if anybody needs them. One is 4.500" bore mega block and the other is a 4.19" no lifter machining block. I guess like they use for Super Stock or other high output applications so they can spread the lifters. I live out in the country and am thinking about taking an extended leave of absence and getting a little antsy about leaving such easy to steal items laying out there while I'm gone.


Just PM me your address and I will be happy to watch them for you wink


I would prefer that.
Posted By: 23T Hemmee

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/11/19 05:07 AM

HI Rick,

Can you msg me the specs on the KB block, (what stage, water or solid, head stud size, lifter size and
spread, cam journal, is sleeve OD 4.630" or 4.700")anything else you might think of.
Thanks,
Ronny
Posted By: cuda499

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/13/19 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by powertrip
Originally Posted by cuda499
Originally Posted by dthemi
Originally Posted by fbs63
The main bulkheads are very thin below and between the cylinders.



I've only freshend one of these first hand so what I saw was as mentioned, weak in the web, and deck. I have seen 2 broken ones, and one so poorly machined that the rear main seal top, and bottom could not physically align.The broken ones were in spray use, but nothing a good mega block couldn't have taken (maybe 1400hp). Like without a diaper they could have ran the crank over. Some said it was sub par studs, but the look to me was weak block, in the deck too.



This is all true


I e-mailed Bill Mitchell and got an immediate reply: These new blocks have been proven to 2000 HP with no issues.

Sounds strong enough for me, and comes without the Indy attitude, and the extra $1500 for a KB that you can't get anyway.



There is no blocks to be had right now, KB or world. Indy doesn't either, and id rather spectate then give them money for that block that has issues staying cool and returning oil to pan.
Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/15/19 09:42 PM

Bill Mitchell had Hemi and Wedge aluminum blocks at PRI. World did not have an iron block there and an inquiry resulted in "how do you know about that?" and an explanation that they are in the works. No Bulldogs in sight anywhere that I saw.
Posted By: fbs63

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/15/19 11:20 PM

Done
Posted By: rickseeman

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/16/19 12:26 AM

What about?
Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/16/19 01:36 AM

Originally Posted by rickseeman
What about?


Probably parts paid for and not delivered. A buddy of mine almost sent money a year ago, based on the information he was given (not by Bulldog) that the issues were resolved, others had received blocks in a timely fashion and a block was available for inspection at PRI.

He got cold feet .
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/16/19 02:53 AM

Picture of guy leaving the PRI show on the Bill
Mitchell Facebook group page

Attached picture 5A361C13-0450-402B-8540-631549B9223F.jpeg
Posted By: KD800X

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/16/19 03:40 AM

Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Bill Mitchell had Hemi and Wedge aluminum blocks at PRI. World did not have an iron block there and an inquiry resulted in "how do you know about that?" and an explanation that they are in the works. No Bulldogs in sight anywhere that I saw.


So are you saying World is going to cast Iron Hemi and Wedge blocks?
Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/16/19 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by KD800X
Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Bill Mitchell had Hemi and Wedge aluminum blocks at PRI. World did not have an iron block there and an inquiry resulted in "how do you know about that?" and an explanation that they are in the works. No Bulldogs in sight anywhere that I saw.


So are you saying World is going to cast Iron Hemi and Wedge blocks?


That's the scuttlebutt. No involvement from Tony. Seems to be early in the process. Guy I went with talked to them. I'll have to ask him if they said anything about an ETA.
Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/16/19 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
Picture of guy leaving the PRI show on the Bill
Mitchell Facebook group page


That must be really late in the day, given the lack of people. Place was packed all 3 days.

Those are the main doors at the front of the hall. That's a high traffic area and the doors are closed. I'd like to know the details.
Posted By: fbs63

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/16/19 11:18 AM

Back
Posted By: Bad340fish

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/16/19 12:20 PM

I know I saw a few places that put display stuff on sale super cheap because they didn't want to deal with it, maybe it was end of day?
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/16/19 04:06 PM

After hearing the costs they were charged to unload and bring the stuff in I am sure they would be happy to sell anything they can. One vendor who is a friend of mine was charged $700 for a four tables and a few boxes of stuff, union workers due all the loading and unloading. I talked to all of the Mopar producers who were there, two glaring omissions, KB and Chicago Connection/Bradshaw. I know the Wheatcrafts personal and they are well aware of the 2000lb gorilla in the closet and will work quickly to turn that around. Also they plan to get and keep a block inventory. Give them some time and all will see the turnaround. I have 100% confidence they will make it what it could be. They will be moving the operation to the Dayton Ohio area, so I am sure there will be some growing pains but have patience.
Posted By: 67mprfan

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/16/19 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Al_Alguire
. I know the Wheatcrafts personal and they are well aware of the 2000lb gorilla in the closet and will work quickly to turn that around. Also they plan to get and keep a block inventory. Give them some time and all will see the turnaround. I have 100% confidence they will make it what it could be. They will be moving the operation to the Dayton Ohio area, so I am sure there will be some growing pains but have patience.


Is it the same wheatcraft's that own a black fastback barracuda
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/16/19 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by 67mprfan
Is it the same wheatcraft's that own a black fastback barracuda


Yes I believe Chris told me they have 30+ cars total. But yes the black 68 is one of the many and one of the few that is juts a solid color smile
Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/16/19 06:27 PM

Quote
They will be moving the operation to the Dayton Ohio area,


You mean it won't be in a hard to find shed, in an alley in the bad part of town? Great!

Quote
Yes I believe Chris told me they have 30+ cars total.


I believe they had the Demon that was there last year and the dragster that was there this year. If they do everything else with the same level of quality and detail as those cars, they will run a first class operation.

Quote
After hearing the costs they were charged to unload and bring the stuff in I am sure they would be happy to sell anything they can. One vendor who is a friend of mine was charged $700 for a four tables and a few boxes of stuff, union workers due all the loading and unloading.


That's a huge racket. I had an exhibitor acquaintance tell me last year - a small package arrived there for him, UPS maybe, and a runner came to his booth and asked if he'd like to have it brought to him. No mention of money, he thought they were just doing him a favor. I think they charged him $100 to carry a small box across the hall to him.
Posted By: slantzilla

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/16/19 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by CMcAllister


Quote
After hearing the costs they were charged to unload and bring the stuff in I am sure they would be happy to sell anything they can. One vendor who is a friend of mine was charged $700 for a four tables and a few boxes of stuff, union workers due all the loading and unloading.


That's a huge racket. I had an exhibitor acquaintance tell me last year - a small package arrived there for him, UPS maybe, and a runner came to his booth and asked if he'd like to have it brought to him. No mention of money, he thought they were just doing him a favor. I think they charged him $100 to carry a small box across the hall to him.


That is the exact reason people quit using McCormick Place here.
Posted By: KD800X

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/17/19 04:44 AM

Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Originally Posted by KD800X
Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Bill Mitchell had Hemi and Wedge aluminum blocks at PRI. World did not have an iron block there and an inquiry resulted in "how do you know about that?" and an explanation that they are in the works. No Bulldogs in sight anywhere that I saw.


So are you saying World is going to cast Iron Hemi and Wedge blocks?


That's the scuttlebutt. No involvement from Tony. Seems to be early in the process. Guy I went with talked to them. I'll have to ask him if they said anything about an ETA.


Man, I hope your right. Heck... there is a demand for them, I can't understand why no one can make a consistent run of blocks.
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/17/19 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by KD800X


Man, I hope your right. Heck... there is a demand for them, I can't understand why no one can make a consistent run of blocks.



A LOT of foundry issues, and one of the manufacturers has gone through an acquisition. The other was acquired what two years ago now and still has had WAY more promises than deliveries.
Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/17/19 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by Al_Alguire
Originally Posted by KD800X


Man, I hope your right. Heck... there is a demand for them, I can't understand why no one can make a consistent run of blocks.



A LOT of foundry issues, and one of the manufacturers has gone through an acquisition. The other was acquired what two years ago now and still has had WAY more promises than deliveries.


That and a reported investment of close to 7 figures before you have block #1 is not conducive to having anyone jump in the pool with both feet.
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/17/19 06:04 PM

Assume you are talking start up costs for someone to cast blocks. Don't see ANYONE who would consider that move as I cannot imagine there is any ROI there. Not sure what kind of $$$ it took to acquire KB, cannot imagine it was that high for initial acquisition, given the issues. Not to say they do not have that money in the company now just cannot imagine initial cost was that high.
Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/17/19 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by Al_Alguire
Assume you are talking start up costs for someone to cast blocks. Don't see ANYONE who would consider that move as I cannot imagine there is any ROI there. Not sure what kind of $$$ it took to acquire KB, cannot imagine it was that high for initial acquisition, given the issues. Not to say they do not have that money in the company now just cannot imagine initial cost was that high.


Numbers I've heard starting from a clean slate for an iron block. Certainly high 6 figures.
Posted By: jim sciortino

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/17/19 06:23 PM

Pontiac has more than 1 option for blocks at a decent price in both aluminum and iron, while even !!!OLDSMOBILE!!! has an iron block available that according to one of Old's top builders I spoke with is.................."bad ass".

That you can't pick up the phone and order (then get) a quality small/big/HEMI MOPAR water block, is not only pathetic, it's enough to get a lifetime MOPAR guy (myself, for example) to build a Dart Big M Pro block with MBE Big 9 heads..........or something similar, on a future build.

A sad state of affairs that has gone on for too long.
Posted By: The Shadow

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/17/19 07:07 PM

It was a considerable amount for KB from my understanding
50 blocks were replaced on top of litigation with Ken.
Not for the faint at heart
Posted By: MikeN

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/17/19 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Originally Posted by KD800X
Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Bill Mitchell had Hemi and Wedge aluminum blocks at PRI. World did not have an iron block there and an inquiry resulted in "how do you know about that?" and an explanation that they are in the works. No Bulldogs in sight anywhere that I saw.


So are you saying World is going to cast Iron Hemi and Wedge blocks?


That's the scuttlebutt. No involvement from Tony. Seems to be early in the process. Guy I went with talked to them. I'll have to ask him if they said anything about an ETA.


When the World blocks were released around 2007 it was said that the "race" gray iron block (and the CGI block) was the same casting as the aluminum block (casting no 5153778). That foundry (https://www.gwcast.com/en/) is still in business.
This means that if BMP wants to, the production of iron blocks could start without to much work.
Note that the "production" casting sold by Mopar is a different one (no 5153843). Weight difference doesn't seem big though.
Both types were described in the 2009 World catalog pg 57 (http://www.hivolume.info/catalogs/WorldProducts2009_catalog.pdf).
Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/17/19 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by jim sciortino
Pontiac has more than 1 option for blocks at a decent price in both aluminum and iron, while even !!!OLDSMOBILE!!! has an iron block available that according to one of Old's top builders I spoke with is.................."bad ass".

That you can't pick up the phone and order (then get) a quality small/big/HEMI MOPAR water block, is not only pathetic, it's enough to get a lifetime MOPAR guy (myself, for example) to build a Dart Big M Pro block with MBE Big 9 heads..........or something similar, on a future build.

A sad state of affairs that has gone on for too long.


Like I heard a lifelong Mopar guy explain when asked why his dragster has a big Big Block GM in it. "I can spend 25k and go 4.40s and not wait on it or I can spend 35k, wait, and go 4.90s."

IF I switch, I'll switch all of it. I won't put a GM engine in a Chrysler product that I own.
Posted By: racerx

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/17/19 09:33 PM

IF I switch, I'll switch all of it. I won't put a GM engine in a Chrysler product that I own.
^^^ iagree^^^ if I was to make the switch it would be all GM.
Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/17/19 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by racerx
IF I switch, I'll switch all of it. I won't put a GM engine in a Chrysler product that I own.
^^^ iagree^^^ if I was to make the switch it would be all GM.


Saw a real nice '68 Camaro street roadster in Indy.
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/18/19 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by CMcAllister


Like I heard a lifelong Mopar guy explain when asked why his dragster has a big Big Block GM in it. "I can spend 25k and go 4.40s and not wait on it or I can spend 35k, wait, and go 4.90s."

IF I switch, I'll switch all of it. I won't put a GM engine in a Chrysler product that I own.


$35K for 4.90's, he is doing something VERY wrong. We went 4.60's in Vegas for less, in a mopar. But I hear what you are saying for sure..Hell I am an idiot not 4.60's in a door car with a Mopar, and NO I wont mention the cost smile
Posted By: jim sciortino

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/18/19 02:31 AM

Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Originally Posted by jim sciortino
Pontiac has more than 1 option for blocks at a decent price in both aluminum and iron, while even !!!OLDSMOBILE!!! has an iron block available that according to one of Old's top builders I spoke with is.................."bad ass".

That you can't pick up the phone and order (then get) a quality small/big/HEMI MOPAR water block, is not only pathetic, it's enough to get a lifetime MOPAR guy (myself, for example) to build a Dart Big M Pro block with MBE Big 9 heads..........or something similar, on a future build.

A sad state of affairs that has gone on for too long.


Like I heard a lifelong Mopar guy explain when asked why his dragster has a big Big Block GM in it. "I can spend 25k and go 4.40s and not wait on it or I can spend 35k, wait, and go 4.90s."

IF I switch, I'll switch all of it. I won't put a GM engine in a Chrysler product that I own.
I sold one of my 2 cars and when the other goes, I'm relocating across countr. When I get settled in, my next car will be a 67' Chevy II with a Whipple screw GM style big block. It's painful, but I don't wanna' be in position where the foundation for a good powerpant is unobtainium. What....send a rod in an iron block and you're out of business for who knows how long??? Forget about it.

I would NEVER stick a non-MOPAR engine in a MOPAR car, so it's gotta' be the whole package and at least the Chevy II looks good and you can get a complete 65# carbon body for under 10K.

If it was just a racecar, there are plenty of good HEMI options to choose from and that would be the way I'd go, but I like to drive stupid stuff around town.
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/18/19 02:52 AM

https://moparconnectionmagazine.com...gHM_ZRkTqMgT8SeCOKlW4LplQ8DLum0VKluPDKC8
Posted By: racerx

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/18/19 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by jim sciortino
Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Originally Posted by jim sciortino
Pontiac has more than 1 option for blocks at a decent price in both aluminum and iron, while even !!!OLDSMOBILE!!! has an iron block available that according to one of Old's top builders I spoke with is.................."bad ass".

That you can't pick up the phone and order (then get) a quality small/big/HEMI MOPAR water block, is not only pathetic, it's enough to get a lifetime MOPAR guy (myself, for example) to build a Dart Big M Pro block with MBE Big 9 heads..........or something similar, on a future build.

A sad state of affairs that has gone on for too long.


Like I heard a lifelong Mopar guy explain when asked why his dragster has a big Big Block GM in it. "I can spend 25k and go 4.40s and not wait on it or I can spend 35k, wait, and go 4.90s."

IF I switch, I'll switch all of it. I won't put a GM engine in a Chrysler product that I own.
I sold one of my 2 cars and when the other goes, I'm relocating across countr. When I get settled in, my next car will be a 67' Chevy II with a Whipple screw GM style big block. It's painful, but I don't wanna' be in position where the foundation for a good powerpant is unobtainium. What....send a rod in an iron block and you're out of business for who knows how long??? Forget about it.

I would NEVER stick a non-MOPAR engine in a MOPAR car, so it's gotta' be the whole package and at least the Chevy II looks good and you can get a complete 65# carbon body for under 10K.


If it was just a racecar, there are plenty of good HEMI options to choose from and that would be the way I'd go, but I like to drive stupid stuff around town.


I tell you …….I like your way of thinking up
Posted By: racerx

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/18/19 11:17 AM

I don't no the age of most on this forum , but I thought that I would be able to get a stout short block built before I retire. But it's not looking promising. I figure I'll be a gearhead for life why not get something that the after market supports work .most of the racers in my circle seems to think that I'm a all die hard Chrysler but that's all I have.(spare parts for) . I'm getting to the age were I just what something I can drive on the weekend with my grandson and enjoy it. Time is running out for me I need to make a decision within the next few years on what I what to do shruggy should I just sell it all and get a cruiser?...…………………..who would think that in 2019 that aftermarket blocks will be this hard to get.
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/18/19 04:37 PM

If I could sell all my stuff, which unless I wanna give it away does not seem likely, not much market for higher HP Mopar stuff I could not GIVE AWAY an 1100HP engine for $17K, now its fresh and ready for the dyno Id be willing to bet I couldn't sell it for that same $17K now either. If I could get out and not loose my a$$ I would be in a 66/67 Chevy II so fast it would make your head spin. I talked to RJ about building a new Chevy II when I was looking at my Stratus, in hindsight I should have just done it then. I already have a 68 Camaro with an aftermarket block in it. Its just to easy and way more options to make power.
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/18/19 05:54 PM

Al, it's sad, but I agree w/ you about your engine. The market for that type of stuff is soooo small.
I love the '66-'67 novas, but I'd be all over a '70 Chevelle. Always liked the bigger cars.
Posted By: n20mstr

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/18/19 06:14 PM

WOW....ONE BY ONE, ALL MY HIGH HP MOPAR "HEROS" ARE GIVING UP

LMAO ! !

KEEP PLUGGING AWAY AT IT AND...…
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/18/19 06:17 PM

I drive and own a 6 cylinder fuel injected 2003 Chevy Malibu that my mother bought new. Does that count because that’s as close to being a Chevy guy that I care to get. I do wish a few guys would jump into the Chevy crowd as I get tired of the constant whining.
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/18/19 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by n20mstr
WOW....ONE BY ONE, ALL MY HIGH HP MOPAR "HEROS" ARE GIVING UP

LMAO ! !

KEEP PLUGGING AWAY AT IT AND...…



Well I for one am pretty tapped out NA wise. We know there is a few more HP in it and will likely address it at freshen up with some new pistons, more compression and a different cam,. But its basically tapped out, at least as a reliable piece. I have all the confidence in the world it will go 200 laps between freshen ups but cannot afford to have anything happen to the block so its on a 100 lap schedule, same with the other engine and its pretty mundane really.

On the bright side it appears there will be a block available again for those few that venture here with a BB. Once the Wheatcrafts get Indy back to speed. Mitchell has no interest or plans to build anything other than "stock" configuration stuff. No raised cam, no bog cam core, no revised lifter angle or spacing. And I cannot blame him one bit. I mean how many people out there would even be interested in one, more will be willing to get on forums and MF the product they have no experience with than actually will buy one. As for the other player, so far empty words and a lot of other people money, Hopefully they can get things headed in the correct direction but at this point its not happened.

Can you hear the frustration yet?
Posted By: TRENDZ

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/18/19 07:23 PM

I don’t understand why manufacturers don’t sell line delete castings. Lets say I want blank cam bore and blank lifter valley, or raw deck heights with no head bolt holes etc... less work for them and more desirable for custom builders.
Posted By: jim sciortino

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/18/19 10:03 PM

I never had an Indy block, but from what everyone says, it has a number of issues and even when fixed up, is not in KB's league. I wonder if the Wheatcraft crew will address this problem???

If they can get water blocks in the pipeline and get them to be reliable around the 1500 to 2000hp range, that would definitely be an alternative. Companies like CN already support above that power level with a variety of HEMI blocks, so the really high end market is covered. I know it's alot to ask since it would require design changes, but that would fill the hole between the existing Indy offering and a really good block that has no water.

As for an iron deal, I can't believe there isn't a market for something that can take a beating well above an aluminum capped and filled stock piece. I split one of them in the early 90s with Indy 440-1 heads and a moderate shot of nitrous. Granted, 1000+ is asking plenty from 50+ year old assembly line castings. Hell even Pontiac and Oldsmoblie have options and I know for a fact the Pontiac alternative is stout, as a couple friends have small tire 1/8 mile cars over 3000# that run pretty hard, including one that's been 4.90s with a plate system without block issues. Plus, they get em' in short order and for a decent price.
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/18/19 11:49 PM

Mopar guys have nobody to blame but themselves. Can’t just have one block gotta have nine different versions of each.
1 Stock Hemi block, 1 340 block and 1 440 block. Adjust from there!
Posted By: Spaceman Spiff

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/19/19 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by jim sciortino
Pontiac has more than 1 option for blocks at a decent price in both aluminum and iron, while even !!!OLDSMOBILE!!! has an iron block available that according to one of Old's top builders I spoke with is.................."bad ass".

That you can't pick up the phone and order (then get) a quality small/big/HEMI MOPAR water block, is not only pathetic, it's enough to get a lifetime MOPAR guy (myself, for example) to build a Dart Big M Pro block with MBE Big 9 heads..........or something similar, on a future build.

A sad state of affairs that has gone on for too long.


They even make aftermarket 409 blocks. An engine that was available for just 5 years.
Posted By: jim sciortino

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/19/19 03:15 AM

Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Originally Posted by jim sciortino
Pontiac has more than 1 option for blocks at a decent price in both aluminum and iron, while even !!!OLDSMOBILE!!! has an iron block available that according to one of Old's top builders I spoke with is.................."bad ass".

That you can't pick up the phone and order (then get) a quality small/big/HEMI MOPAR water block, is not only pathetic, it's enough to get a lifetime MOPAR guy (myself, for example) to build a Dart Big M Pro block with MBE Big 9 heads..........or something similar, on a future build.

A sad state of affairs that has gone on for too long.


They even make aftermarket 409 blocks. An engine that was available for just 5 years.
Very true.....so how can the market support the existence of these pieces while the Dodge/Plymoth crowd has continuous supply and quality problems???

It would appear that every time blocks actually do hit the streets, they certainly don't sit on manufacturers shelves, unable to be unloaded.
Posted By: slantzilla

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/19/19 03:20 AM

My buddy at The Chicago Connection told me he could get rid of 100 blocks almost instantly if he could just get them.......
Posted By: cudatom

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/19/19 03:38 AM

That doesn't surprise me.

If I wouldn't lose my azz I would just switch over to the Gen III stuff. Unfortunately I have everything I need except for pistons for a BB. I'm giving KB until the end of January and if nothing I'll pull the trigger on a BM block. Not going to waste good rods, crank, cam and heads on a stock block. If the mains let go its all gone. Not saying that can't happen with a good aftermarket block but chances are less.
Posted By: iapco103

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/19/19 04:23 AM

Originally Posted by slantzilla
My buddy at The Chicago Connection told me he could get rid of 100 blocks almost instantly if he could just get them.......
Has he gotten any blocks? Paul
Posted By: slantzilla

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/19/19 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by iapco103
Originally Posted by slantzilla
My buddy at The Chicago Connection told me he could get rid of 100 blocks almost instantly if he could just get them.......
Has he gotten any blocks? Paul


Last time I talked to him a couple months ago he had not seen any. He was pretty concerned when I told him people on here were getting blocks directly from Bulldog.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/19/19 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by slantzilla
Originally Posted by iapco103
Originally Posted by slantzilla
My buddy at The Chicago Connection told me he could get rid of 100 blocks almost instantly if he could just get them.......
Has he gotten any blocks? Paul


Last time I talked to him a couple months ago he had not seen any. He was pretty concerned when I told him people on here were getting blocks directly from Bulldog.

I thought Bulldog went out of business shock Do you have any contact info for them now? help
Posted By: slantzilla

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/19/19 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Originally Posted by slantzilla
Originally Posted by iapco103
Originally Posted by slantzilla
My buddy at The Chicago Connection told me he could get rid of 100 blocks almost instantly if he could just get them.......
Has he gotten any blocks? Paul


Last time I talked to him a couple months ago he had not seen any. He was pretty concerned when I told him people on here were getting blocks directly from Bulldog.

I thought Bulldog went out of business shock Do you have any contact info for them now? help


Bulldog is the one who is probably being sued.
Posted By: BANDIT

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/19/19 08:10 PM

I have R-M built 583” BBC in one car and a 588” R-B built Mopar motor in other. One makes 150 hp more than the other and was $8000.00 cheaper. The Mopar is a wedge head, both are aluminum blocks, the Mopar is an Indy block. Bet you can’t guess which one is which. Jim.
Posted By: jim sciortino

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/19/19 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by BANDIT
I have R-M built 583” BBC in one car and a 588” R-B built Mopar motor in other. One makes 150 hp more than the other and was $8000.00 cheaper. The Mopar is a wedge head, both are aluminum blocks, the Mopar is an Indy block. Bet you can’t guess which one is which. Jim.
Because not only do we have a block porcurement problem, unless you opt for the best of the best HEMI heads for a boosted application, they are playing with spaceships and we're stuck with chariots in the cylinder head department.

The cost difference is understandable and makes sense economically for a variety of reasons, so that part of the equation doesn't bother me nearly as much as R&D/availablity nightmare.
Posted By: Ray408G3Hemi

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/19/19 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Originally Posted by slantzilla
Originally Posted by iapco103
Originally Posted by slantzilla
My buddy at The Chicago Connection told me he could get rid of 100 blocks almost instantly if he could just get them.......
Has he gotten any blocks? Paul


Last time I talked to him a couple months ago he had not seen any. He was pretty concerned when I told him people on here were getting blocks directly from Bulldog.

I thought Bulldog went out of business shock Do you have any contact info for them now? help



there're still in business,.... Ric talked to them today about getting a block , he said that Bulldog has a 10.2 small bore large main sitting there.....which is not what I want for my next mopar build ,"Bill" (think that was the guys name) told him it would be 6-8 week wait for what I want,.. 9.98 deck small main ,small bore contact info is . indydawg20@gmail.com​​.
​317-869-8689
Posted By: parksr5

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/20/19 12:02 AM

I've read responses to posts like this over the years, where we've had some serious all out racers talk about the lack of availability of very stout, all out race blocks for Mopars. From my recollection, I don't recall anyone mentioning Allen Johnson Race Engines. They've had 5-6k HP capable Hemi blocks available for years. Why doesn't anyone ever mention them?
Posted By: jim sciortino

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/20/19 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by parksr5
I've read responses to posts like this over the years, where we've had some serious all out racers talk about the lack of availability of very stout, all out race blocks for Mopars. From my recollection, I don't recall anyone mentioning Allen Johnson Race Engines. They've had 5-6k HP capable Hemi blocks available for years. Why doesn't anyone ever mention them?
There are a number of options at that level of "HEMI' and plenty of serious guys use em'. Unfortunately, for the less than all out folks, these are not an option.
Posted By: parksr5

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/20/19 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by jim sciortino
Originally Posted by parksr5
I've read responses to posts like this over the years, where we've had some serious all out racers talk about the lack of availability of very stout, all out race blocks for Mopars. From my recollection, I don't recall anyone mentioning Allen Johnson Race Engines. They've had 5-6k HP capable Hemi blocks available for years. Why doesn't anyone ever mention them?
There are a number of options at that level of "HEMI' and plenty of serious guys use em'. Unfortunately, for the less than all out folks, these are not an option.


I understand that; I'm in the less than all out folks category and will never be able to afford anything close. I was just pointing out, some say they want to run with the top dogs with a Mopar, I'm just saying it's possible but, no one seems to mention it.
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/20/19 03:56 PM

Those AJE/BAE blocks don't work so well for the Wedge head crowd, or the street strip guys. There is a billet water wedge block that is in the works but I am sure cost will scare most away if and when it comes. BTW just FYI a billet Dart water block for a BBC is over $14000 and they sell plenty of them
Posted By: iapco103

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/20/19 04:56 PM

there're still in business,.... Ric talked to them today about getting a block , he said that Bulldog has a 10.2 small bore large main sitting there.....which is not what I want for my next mopar build ,"Bill" (think that was the guys name) told him it would be 6-8 week wait for what I want,.. 9.98 deck small main ,small bore contact info is . indydawg20@gmail.com​​.
​317-869-8689 [/quote]I wonder if the " Bill " he spoke to is Bill Hupke? Perhaps Bill is running the office so Richard can ride herd on the foundry & machine shop guys. Paul
Posted By: Ray408G3Hemi

Re: Bill Mitchell Products. More Mopar blocks - 12/20/19 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Al_Alguire
Those AJE/BAE blocks don't work so well for the Wedge head crowd, or the street strip guys. There is a billet water wedge block that is in the works but I am sure cost will scare most away if and when it comes. BTW just FYI a billet Dart water block for a BBC is over $14000 and they sell plenty of them




I have a Shelby FE Alloy block sitting here for the 63 T-bolt Clone, it was $7500+ shipping, Irony the closet HP to the Hellcrate is the 536Ci 750HP crate engine.....it's only $37,299.99
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