Out dated helmets

So, I had to get a new helmet, but what do you guys do with your old ones? I'm guessing that they can't be recertified because of rule, regulation and construction changes over years. I have an older G Force M2000 helmet that I really liked, but don't know what to do with it now.

I offer mine for free to families with ATV’s.

I have tried to sell them on ebay with no luck.

Put it on the shelf for decoration with old pictures, trophies, models, plaques and any other junk you have there.

Tie it to the car, and drag it.

Then put it on display.

I had a brand new one last year that had a DOT number on it but no Snell. Coles County and 41 accepted it, Joliet bounced it. It's sitting on the shelf now.

Well I really love the way my old helmet fits so I use my new helmet to tech and wear my old helmet to race comfortably. I have tried 3 different kinds of helmets and NONE of them fit like my old Bell Mag4.
Gus

Photoshop a sticker.

Either one of those will get you a vacation if you get caught at an NHRA event.

My son's Bell dated out, AND the interior padding/foam started to .disintegrate

Nothing is more important to me, .

get caught?
"I bought it like that at a swap meet, here's the bill of sale. Prove your accusation, or I'll sue you into hell and back".

Helmet certification = virtue signalling and rent-seeking.
My life, health, safety AFTER a wreck is no one's business except mine.

I have looked for awhile and not found any stickers online, Which is a surprise. I thought for sure someone would be making them. It gets old throwing a perfectly good helmet away just because of a sticker.

You guys are acting like a helmet is only good for five years or so. Lol. Don’t be so dog gone cheap after all it is your head we are talking about

Got a "DNR" painted on the roof over the drivers door?

https://medlineplus.gov/ency/patientinstructions/000473.htm

Do you know why I ran NHRA events pretty much exclusively? Because cars and safety equipment got looked at, and for the most part, I didn't have to worry about going down the track beside some knucklehead who didn't think basic rules applied to him and he could do or not do pretty much as he pleased, rule book be damned.

Helmets are good for 12 years from the date of the sticker. 12 years.

If you read what I wrote, and don't understand it, just say so.

I read it several times - what are you trying to say?

Are you saying that would be your response if faced with the situation during tech?

I have only used one helmet for all my years of racing.
It sag 1973 inside of it. No NHRA racing in my state.

Southern guys and tracks are a different breed which wouldn’t usually bother me but when poop hits the fan it affects us all. Tracks close due to lawsuits and insurance rates raise for every track, not just the culprits.

I understand replacing something that is unsafe or worn out but I cant see spending hundreds of dollars on something new to replace a perfectly good product still in use. The fabric along the neckline of mine is starting to sperate from the foam but I still trust this helmet I've had for 25 years rather than putting something on my head that feels cheaply made.
This topic pops up every couple years at the end of the season along with the belt cert deal.
Safety is important but most intelligent racers know when they need to replace safety equipment without some organization telling me its time without even looking at my belts or helmet. They need to inspect the safety equipment it self instead of when it was made
Gus

We, New York racers, can reuse them as daily driver protection with the terrible, self centered drivers we face everyday going to and from work. DiBlasio should reimburse us for these, as he contributed greatly to this problem.

I had one that was maybe worn twice , but out dated.
Put it on facebook marketplace.
For I think 30.00
It sold to a fellow in Montana and cost 25.00 to ship.
I took that financial windfall and bought a cheeseburger.
But most roundy round guys don't have to worry about that stuff , and he was glad to get it.

I've read a lot of stupidity and nonsense on this site, but I think this thread takes the cake.

A new large open face helmet from Summit is $170 for a Pyrotect brand. This is a Snell 2015 cert piece that doesn't expire until 2027. If you bought one this winter, for next season...it would cost you $25/year until it expires. Obviously $25/year is too much money for the Moparts Allstars to protect their heads. Continue on...I hope you guys never get into a situation where you need that helmet. I've been there, and I walked away from it thanks to SFI's safety rules.

SELL IT to the Stealers quarterback !

Looks like this is the only constructive answer I have received. I'm not asking how to get away with anything. I already bought a new helmet. I just want to know what to do with a perfectly fine helmet that has an expired Snell rating.

Poly, for all the respect I have for you, I sure hope that your answer was a joke.

I know of a couple tracks that have helmets to lend at the tower for the first timers or helmet forgetters. I donated my out dated one. Sure miss it , the new one a Big dollar Bandit sucks. Might check with your track if they could use it. Not all tracks are NHRA rule compliant.

Where are you going racing around here that you need a new certified helmet to pass tech? Even when I was at an NHRA tech'd event (only twice in my "career"), they never looked at my helmet.

When a helmet becomes outdated - I usually sell them at a swap meet as it has some worth to somebody that can use for a another purpose. I look at it this way - if its out of date most likely so is the technology that made it - time for a new one. As far as getting a bogus sticker for the helmet - there is way too much of that going around right now especially on some of the knock off stuff coming from China and other places. You want to make up a bogus sticker deal that's up to you - it just confirms the theory of natural selection. As far as Tech - just about every time I have been teched they look at the seat belts and the helmet for the date.

I use my old helmet for snow blowing on windy days

The inside do come apart in time and they have a long life sitting on our sweaty heads.The think that ticks me is the 2 year rule on belts

I have everyone in my class sign it and throw it on a shelf in my rec room. I do like the other idea of donating it to someone with kids with atv’s but mine is X large.

and yet allow factory lap belts that are 45-50 years old to be used in the 11.49 & slower classes not needing a roll bar.

I get a new bike helmet whenever I get a new bike. It always amazes me how much the helmet and bike technology have improved. I had a Bell back in the '80s that was top of the line. The Last Arai I got made it seem like I had a concrete block sitting on my head, the new ones are that much lighter.

Sorry, I don’t have a useful recommendation for the reuse of the helmet. I’ve got a few myself. All of the tracks I race at, ALWAYS check for the Snell date. You get a warning and a smelly loaner. ONCE.

I am all for safety. Racing at NHRA tracks in Division Six tech is taken very seriously! As mentioned I am all for making our sport as safe as it can be. However, I am a little frustrated with the helmet rule. More because I had a very well fitting expensive top of the line helmet that went out of date. My area of frustration is that I can go to my local speed shop and buy a $100.00 piece of junk Chinese made helmet that has a sticker on it that makes it legal. However, if I get into a crash I would feel way safer wearing my expired $1000.00 ARAI Signet helmet over the in date cheap one.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I've been told that NASCAR allows five year old SFI belts in their cup cars
I also heard that they got a lot stricter in their inspections on how their belts are mounted after Dale Earnhart died in his wreck
My S/P car sits in the trailer or in the shop out of the sunshine when it is not at the tracks, I race it a lot less up here than when I raced in SO CA so my belts are looking really good before having to replace them every two years
I've said for many years , if you have a cheap head buy and use a cheap helmet
AKA aside, buy and use the best ones you can get when it comes to buying and using all safety equipment

It's not a matter of passing tech. It's a matter of piece of mind and safety. I just finished up a car for my son. First time ever drag racing. Car is going low 7's in the 1/8 right now. Soon to be going low 6's, maybe high 5's. When your kids want to start racing because Daddy does it, let me know if you put that 20 year old helmet on their heads.

This^^^^. I've helped clean up the mess after incidents. I've seen friends (and strangers) badly hurt and permanently disabled. Much of it could have been prevented. I suppose that's part of the reason I cop an attitude when someone starts to gripe about safety rules being a money grab, cheating their way through tech and being smart guys by running at tracks that don't look at anything.

Safely starts in our shops at home. We are not children and it isn’t techs job to babysit us. Use your head and think about not only yourself but also your family that may have to fend for itself because you were either to lazy or to cheap. Most of the tracks I go to require us to fill out our tech cards before we go to tech to be checked out.

Buddy of mine mounted his old skid lid on the wall in his shop upside down and attached a funnel to it that ran outside.
You can imagine the rest...

Digger73 (Mike)

I'm really surprised at the incredible naiveté expressed here.

Who do helmets protect:
1. the person wearing it
1. the insurance companies

Who do they have absolutely not effect on:
1. the other 7,000,000,000 people on the planet, including you

Can't argue that, but did have to check the 7 billion number. I'm amazed, actually shows as 7.5b. I thought we were still at 3 1/2 b. I'm out of touch
When I was born, was about 2.5b

So if I use an old helmet, there will only be 6,999,999,999
Think I'll be missed/

Calm down Kenny. My question was out of curiosity to see if yall got hassled at a track (I know yall went to Pageland recently) around here for an older helmet, b/c I never have.

Then the question is, who pays the increased Insurance rates because of a track injury?:
1. The poor choice helmeted injured driver?
2. The 7 + billion?
3. Or the other track racers?

Sort of. Should we as participants not be concerned about other participants being killed, burned, disabled, flung from cars like we can see happening in old films of Indy and sprint cars? Should we be OK with guys wearing leather helmets and T-shirts at the speeds we are seeing now?

Plain vanilla bracket cars are going faster than Top Fuel cars were years ago. Should safety not also evolve to keep up? Why not take advantage of the technology? Should a person be allowed to drive a Top Sportsman car in a ball cap and shorts? What about his family? What about who's going to pay the medical bills for him being stupid if it's his turn to be unlucky?

Public image and insurability are two things that need to be at the top of the list, if we want to continue to do this. We've come a long way from the old street racing hoodlum days, despite the negative image portrayed in some current TV shows.

While I appreciate the Libertarian ideas of allowing people to be as stupid as they want to be, we are living in a world where BEING SAFE is often the most important consideration for any activity, if we want to be seen on the same level as other mainstream sports. Nothing happens anymore that doesn't get instantly spread through social media, especially if it is something bad. Frankly, I prefer to see video or reports of ridiculously bad accidents, fires, or the incidents that are inevitably going to happen, and see the guy walk away from it without a scratch. That's when the value of all this "safety crap" becomes evident.

Years ago, I did tech at a local track, and I looked at the cars, not just handed out stickers. It was unbelievable the crap some people would want to be allowed to run down the track. Then get mad at me because I didn't want to sign off on them racing in a death trap. So yes, some folks need to be protected from themselves to keep the rest of us from looking like idiots. I like to go to the range, do a little target shooting on occasion. And I really don't want to see an idiot shoot themselves, accidentally or otherwise, for many of the same obvious reasons I don't want to see anyone hurt in a race car. It's not a good look.

Well said, McAllister...Joe

who pays the increased Insurance rates because of a track injury
As a result of someone injured in a race (for which he already waived litigation) due to his own negligence? He won't get a dime, and you won't pay for it.

That was the "legal" argument giving the Federal government the right to lock you up for... not wearing your seat belt.
Remind me - where does this appear in the Constitution?
Trick question: it doesn't.

Very simple: you're responsible for your own life, but not mine, unless you want to pay for it. Give me your credit card number and I'll buy any helmet you approve of.

Please tell me you aren’t out of the loop so far that you don’t think track injuries affect all racers.

I always Ebay my MINT condition sfi belts ( SCAM ) and my MINT sfi (SCAM) helmets.

Oh look..i had to sit out 2 seasons and my UN-USED belts are now "illegal" . What a joke....same with "locking dipsticks" .

F the nhra/ihra sfi racket .

Calm down Kenny. My question was out of curiosity to see if yall got hassled at a track (I know yall went to Pageland recently) around here for an older helmet, b/c I never have.

As you know, I haven't raced in a bunch of years down here. In NY, they checked it every time we raced. Helmet, belts, wheel studs, damper was the normal routine. Since I rented the track for the day, the only thing checked was the cash. Lol! Guess I'll find out soon enough who checks and who doesn't. Sorry if I took it the wrong way, Chip.

I've raced at a LOT of the tracks around here. The only things I've ever been checked for was a driveshaft loop, radiator overflow bottle, seat belts, and helmet. When I say checked for...I mean to see if they were actually there. Never checked the actual location of the loop or dates on anything.
Most tracks don't check anything. If you have a car, you're good, lol.

Darlington is the most strict...they will turn you away if you don't have long pants and a helmet. They have loaner helmets though. They do require a single layer fire jacket if the car is quicker than 6.50 in the 1/8 I believe.
I've run mid 5s in the 1/8 and 8s at over 150 mph in the 1/4 and never once been asked about my cage cert (which is out of date), comp license (which I do have), or the parachute I don't have.
Believe me, there are MUCH faster cars w/ way less safety equipment than I have.

Last time I was at Pageland I think I just wrote the number from the gate ticket on the windshield and that was all that was needed to go run.

Some of yall from up north would be appalled at the junk that is allowed to run at tracks down here, but it's all about money. If you turn this guy away b/c he has junk, there are so many tracks down here that he (and all his friends) will just start going somewhere else.
There's a reason certain crowds only go to the small outlaw 1/8 mile tracks and never frequent the bigger nicer facilities like Darlington or Rockingham. Some of these tracks are literally a couple strips of pavement at the back of a field w/ a timing system and what looks like a fence.

Maybe if I only raced 4-5 times a year max it would bother me more but like I said I’m cool with getting over 10 years out of a helmet. I love the diaper I put on my car and the 8.50 cage cert was well worth the price. The seatbelt rule bothers me not so much the price (40.00 every two years) as I sell mine local for 20-25 dollars. It’s more the labor required to change them out especially on my blue Duster.

I agree the current seat belt rule is ridiculous - 2 years is just a little short - Indy car says 5 years - I think NASCAR is the same - I can agree with the five year rule. - Diapers or pans are life saver and I think a good investment for anyone racing - I have seen too many cars get into their own oil at top end and end up in the wall or on their roof.

Let's say something crazy happens and you get severely injured or killed drag racing, and your life insurance finds out your safety equipment was in violation of posted rules...and they pin loss of life on it. Think they would pay out to your family? If $150 is too much, I'd hate to see the rest of your equipment, especially when I'm in the other lane. Even if that 1990 helmet is perfect, it's still old technology.

Things don't last forever.

I got nabbed this year at Norwalk for a two foot section of my roll bar needing a piece of padding. I had removed it sometime ago for some reason and never put it back on. It’s in a really tight spot so I bought a piece of the new SFI rated padding that is now required. You wouldn’t believe the differenc between this and the old pipe insulation we used for years. It is so much denser.

W/r/t your life insurance finds out your safety equipment was in violation of posted rules...and they pin loss of life on it

This is quite possible, "contributory negligence" is claimed to reduce the award value. IMHO an insurance company is likely to use this as a bargaining chip, regardless of what actually happened, and let your lawyer argue that the accident was fatal regardless of helmet quality.
The question of "is a helmet that expired yesterday more dangerous than one still legal?" will be fun to watch. These are frequently decided on this basis: "what engineering data and destructive test results were used to determine exactly when a helmet has decayed significantly? (exactly 730 days, not 729)".
The surprising answers come back:
1. "we were told..."
2. "we just made it up, after that big donation from the helmet manufacturers"
3. "none ever actually failed from a crash, but we had to say something"
4. "we read about a helmet settlement in Kazakhstan in 1986 from a WW2 helmet, so we made it different"

Wasn't the best best money helmet can buy really helpful to Dale Earnhardt?

I'm under the impression that Dale Earnhardt death was contributed to him (his crew, car builder, chassis builder) NOT having the lap belts attached properly to the car, his neck getting broken during the crash had nothing to do with the helmet
I'm going to say the neck and head restraint systems required now are a result of his death, to bad they weren't invented and required before his last accident

No, But a lighter, composite helmet like the high end stuff sold now might have made a difference, and a HANS may have actually saved his life. Or is that another useless money making scam dreamed up by SFI?

And my advice would be to not tell your life insurance company you drive a race car. They'll dump you so fast, your head will spin.

Sorry, this position doesn't hold water.

Life insurance usually even pays in suicide, with certain restrictions, forget "contributory negligence", that's how most accidents happen anyway..

They don't give a crap how you kicked the bucket.

However if its a mega policy, they might exclude car racing in the the terms.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Life insurance would pay out, provided there isn’t a no racing clause. No way in hell they would drill down to out-of-compliance safety equip.

The weight of the helmet actually contributed to his death. The sudden stop tried to yank his head off his neck. Just as it did Adam Petty, Clifford Allison and Kenny Irwin Jr. Without a Hans device probably all the drivers would've died regardless of what helmet they were wearing.

Lots of race car drivers survived many head on crashes with guard rails and other cars long before Hans devices where invented or used, especially NASCR drivers
Some men and women didn't survive on the track or on the roads

That's kinda like saying lots of people never died from cancer caused by smoking. It's true but doesn't change the fact that a Hans device probably could've saved some lives just as not smoking could've too.

I also believe the lack of a full face helmet played a significant role in his death, Dale being the only driver in the race wearing an open face, to the consternation of Nascar, and it's nuanced IMO his face struck the steering wheel, something a HANS would have mitigated. This is also why I believe, the first person's reaction to Dale's wrecked car understood the obvious seriousness of Dale's injuries, and why autopsy photos were so diligently guarded.

NASCAR no longer allowed open face helmets on the track.

Sorry, this position doesn't hold water.


Are you kidding? It's not life insurance or suicide.
I sat on a Nassau County civil jury in which the judge explained contributory negligence "can be from 0 to 100%".

I agree. We were at that race and I watched through binoculars Kenny Schrader's reaction. I told my cousin that it must be bad. Later in an interview Kenny commented that "a person should never have to see a friend like that".

What got me was nascars reaction, it took the death of their star to get a reaction. It's like the deaths of the three young drivers from the same type of injury was only a minor inconvenience to them. That was the end for nascar with me.

Haven't paid much attention to it in a while - except for when I Googled "race car drivers and life insurance" when I went looking for actual facts - but for the last life insurance policy I applied for, one of the first questions was "Do you participate in hazardous activities like sky diving, or driving race cars?". Policies are not all the same. The more you're worth dead, the more they pay attention. Read the fine print.

My suggestion to anyone questioning the value and/or motivation for the emphasis on being as up to date as possible on safety equipment - message Alan Prusiensky, John or Brittany Force (or any of the people who leveled one in a Funny Car this year), John Medlin, Stevie "Fast", Steve Torrance, Sidnei Frigo or any of the other people who have had real experience with ferocious crashes recently and walked away with minor or no injuries. Ask them their opinion, based on their first hand knowledge.

Or not.

I have no idea what you are referring to.

A life insurance policy is a contract, and unless its clearly stipulated the insured has a responsibility for any required behavior, the only requirement for a full benefit payment is proof of death, period, doesn't matter one iota how stupid the insured actions were.

And I'm drowning here.

All I can add here is years ago I had a Prudential Life insurance policy. My agent knew I raced so there was a rider added to my policy and a small monthly fee so I was covered on and off the track. I cashed in that policy years ago needing the money while going through my divorce

Racing deaths are not suicide, and the policy in question is not his life insurance - it's the cost to the track and other drivers.
Your life insurance may cover you for a racing death - and that has the following effect on other participants: none whatever.

"No suicide for 2 years" was the rule in life insurance policies for over 100 years. You agreed to it when you paid the premium; no, you can't cross it out and initial it. No one who killed himself with wet ink on the new policy received money.
My source: Metropolitan Life Insurance Company employed my grandfather, my father, and me beginning around 1930. I was employed as a Senior Court Clerk by the Supreme Court of New York County, Civil Term, after that.

Check which statement you THINK I made, but did not:
1. "I won't wear a helmet, and you shouldn't either"
2. "all safety rules are dumb"

I watched that happen to two of my old Arai motocross helmets while they sat on a shelf for years.

They don't last forever, much as I wish they did. When they get past being safe, display them or trash them.

Tour statements seem to be in conflict:

"W/r/t your life insurance finds out your safety equipment was in violation of posted rules...and they pin loss of life on it

This is quite possible, "contributory negligence" is claimed to reduce the award value."

This last posting of yours only restates what I mentioned a number of replies ago for the discerning reader..

Let me recap succinctly:
1. Accidents/deaths at the track effect all racers, partly thru increased insurance costs of the operators.
2. life insurance benefit award for at the track incidents are not directly effected negatively in anyway by "contributory negligence" pf the deceased.
3. Its hard to justify "contributory negligence" as a life insurance benefit reduction factor, IF for example say almost universally ,suicide is no a reduction factor, as I already clearly noted, but there are often certain restrictions regarding suicide on life insurance ( 2 yr initial exclusion being the most common).
4. Life Insurance is a contract, subject to its terms, that both parties agree to in advance.

W/r/t insurance:
During my decades in Supreme Court, I spent many humorous hours reading the most recent Appellate decisions (where you go when the State Supreme Court is wrong). A large percentage of these share a concept: the 2 parties who signed the contract had very different opinions as to what they were required to do, etc. It is the insurance company's legal fiduciary duty to deny all claims. Yes, really - until or unless the Judge or jury makes them. The default position is OMDB..

The author of a good contract (I sold some with [insert Party 3 here] fields for DIY legal separations, child support mods, waivers, releases, renouncement of surviving spouse's right to elect against the decedent's will) earns his fee from Part 1 by crafting language that appears to grant concessions to Party 2 - but:
1. does not
2. requires impossible standard of proof
3. waives or delays performance as to Party 1

If anyone ere believes that there is some form of "Court of Last Resort", whose intellectual brilliance and ultimate competence can and does correct any & all outrages, insults, etc?
Explain "Kelo", "Citizens United", "Roe v. Wade", "Batson", and "Dual Sovereignty".

Waiting for the penny to drop: the NY "look back provision".

Let me summarize: in motion practice, any form of moral rectitude, consciousness of error, etc. are fatal handicaps.

Guys....This thread is going nowhere fast...It is done. Sorry!