Solid flat tappet lifters

Looking for a recommendation on a set of solid flat tappet lifters for a cam that I want to try. I thought that tool steel would be nice, but read the following thread and decided that they may not be the best.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2402051/flat-cam.html#Post2402051

Application is a 440 iron headed bracket race motor. Cam is an old Lunati grind that I planned on using with Comp 928 springs.

Yep that was me, Roller in it now.

Thanks.

What did you end up doing to get the oiling issues corrected?

Multiple things, main bearings worn, oil pump shaft bushing was REAL loose & ruined the oil pump , as of now I have 3500ish miles on it since the refresh & cam change.

I am real happy with Howards lifters with edm oiler hole .
Used on the last flat tappet cams in my 440,505,505
Brackst raced plus daily dtiven

Tex

I have been using Trend/Barton tool steel lifters. (they're a little different than directly from trend as the body has no groove/space in the middle)

The same set have been used on 4 different cams in two different short blocks. I use either Schaffer's or Valvoline 10-30 racing oil with no additional additives.

Currently using Isky 8205 springs.....I'd have to check my notes, but I think they're around 150# closed and #430 open

I read that link posted above and my planned 3 year rebuild never happened last Winter so I lowered my shift rpm from 7000
To 6700 rpm and ran it for a forth year. Everything must be ok as it was still cranking out 6.0 passes. Still same EDM lifters and Penn Grade (old Brad Penn) oil and a zinc additive for extra insurance.

Thanks for the replies. I had my eye on the lifters from Barton, if they can be reused on cam changes I think they are well worth the money.

Yeah, well My lifters are still perfect & could be reused on a new cam, the old cam not so good.

Tool steel lifters ?

Tool steel ?

not tool steel .
And I better check my spelling better !
You could also check on classracer.com re tool steel lifter use


Tex

I just read an add for tool steel lifters. I use the comp EDM lifters as well. Don't know who makes them for comp, but Hughes Engines and Bullet Cams sell a Johnson lifter with the oil hole as well.

I've made switch to a solid roller, but am still curious about what combination of cam treatment & solid lifter material is getting the for street & strip use these days.
- Standard cast iron cam core
- Standard cast iron cam core + nitriding
- Standard lifter + EDM hole
- Tool steel lifter + EDM hole (assuming all the tool steel lifters have the EDM holes)

What I think I've heard between here and SpeedTalk is that tool steel lifters and nitrided cams are a bad combo. Now I'm wondering if tool steel lifters are simply a bad choice for long-term street use, even for non-nitrided cams.

What about standard EDM lifters and nitrided cams?

David Vizard claims a nitrited sft lobe has nearly the same friction as a roller lifter. Seems that nitrite is an efficient friction reducer. Never knew that.

IIRC, the nitrided layer is very thin. If that's worn through, then the softer untreated core is exposed and wears quickly.

These are the ones I used in my R3 small block. Curious to see how everything looks after 4 years.

http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/...amp;level1=TGlmdGVycw==&partid=24238

All I know is I used Tool steel lifters with EDM on a non treated cast iron cam, That is how Trend & Howards said to do it, for the money I wasted I could have gone roller to begin with.

I did it backwards...I went from a solid roller, to solid cam with Howards EDM lifter (with the oil hole). With the oil through capability of the lifters (and oil through push rods), my push rods look much better this year. In previous years I was getting bluing at the push rod cups on a few....it was not good.

Your pushrods are oiled both through the rockers (shafts) and the pushrods?

I am going through what i am going to due. Lost a flat tappet cam due to indy rocker failure. Heads are 360-1 springs are 939 comps 140 seat 415 over nose. pulled engine cleaned and put short black back together. I already have a new ft cam. First FT. I never lost what a huge PIA. Years ago had a bracket car duster 3250 446 B1BS heads car ran ran 9.70s in good air usually 9.90 with flat tappet Racer Brown. Switched to a roller cam picked up less than .05. cams were vary similar 272 @50 roller had over.100 more lift. I alwyas ran 150 seat 410 over nose is that to much spring.

I gotta check my notes but man 415 over the nose sounds high to me for a solid cam

I like the edm hole. I thought it would not stay clear due to its size, but every time I check it was clear.

Brad , I had the cam in my first 505 nitrided , block split then I went to build another . Pulled the cam to reuse , fark ! . Surface was heavily pitted . After talking to Mike Jones seems this is common . Nitride toughens the surface but can soften the under layer , so surface can collapse a bit like a sink hole . The lifters still looked like new .
New cam is not nitrided , got Howards edm lifters again .
I thought I was doing the right thing with nitriding but didn't work out . Could I go solid roller with a street profile ? Would make a bit more power , but just not sure I can get the street milage/usage . Especially the long highway driving . . Maybe use BAM lifters they seem to have a good name , Crower hipo ? Lot of $ to find out .

Tex

Ran those 928 springs on my 472 and 451 over the span of almost a decade using the same set of comp cam 821 tappets. Broke the cam in right using good break in oil for 30 minutes, always ran high ZDDP oils (Admax, Brad Penn, Rotella w/ STP addative), and never had an issue.

That said, I'll never go through the hassle of braking in a flat tappets cam again. I'd rather shell out the money for a mild hydraulic roller than go through that 30 minutes of anxiety again.

What oil did you use

Edited my post before I saw this...Admax for awhile, Rotella w/ STP addative, and then finally Brad Penn. Anything you find in a parts store is likely to be sub-par for what we need as it needs to work for the masses with catalytic converters.

It's getting close. I've run that high but you can't let the idle speed get too slow, you can't screw around getting it cold started it if sits for awhile and you have to be real careful about floating the valves.


I can't explain the last one...but I know from experience when the spring pressure gets over about 360 on the seat, that an over rev or banging the engine off the rev limiter it will tear the nose of the cam much quicker.

I pulled the inner spring setup at 1.900 155 and 345 at .600 is that enough to shift motor at 7100. i am gonna buy the lighters lifter and tool steel retainers. Any thoughts on beehives spring 75 to 90 gram lighter than conventional springs. I guess what i did is now a 936 spring. I want to drive the car alot on the road thanks for advice

I would like to use the beehives, I have the Trend H-13 solid f/t with the edm hole in the face and they weigh 69-Gr. +/- and trend p-rods. Pac tells me NOT to use the Beehives with solid f/ts and Comp says its ok.? My only reason is is the huge weight savings of the beehive and Ti retainers/locks. Oh yeah, I have used my Trend tool steel lifters on 2 different cam grinds and am going to use them again as they look good as new. Should a person be afraid to do away with the dual spring to go to the light wt.Bee's?

I have also used the Howards EDM lifters with good results. Before EDM lifters were available I had a tool that would cut a small groove in the lifter bore which increased the oiling to the lifter, that worked as well, just took some time to cut the grooves. Much quicker to use the EDM lifter after they came out. Anything much over .600 lift I use a roller lifter, due to the spring pressure needed on higher lift cams.

https://www.jegs.com/i/COMP-Cams/249/5007/10002/-1

I pushrod oil as well with flat tappet using EDM lifter and nitride cam. Just took everything apart and all is very well. No signs of wear anywhere. I plugger the oil galley in the heads so it wouldn't double oil. I read something on harmonics awhile back. They stated that the oil running thru the pushrod absorb's some harmonics.

Been doing a bunch of reading lately. Another David Vizard statement, flat tappet cams are on par with a roller til about 265*@50. I'm assuming similar lift.

Thank you what oil and spring pressures are you running

Listen to PAC. I don't get the love affair with beehive springs. Is isn't new technology. It's OEM stuff that's been made to sell to the hot rod market and they have very little value IMO. I refuse to use them unless there are zero alternatives.

Let the flaming begin.

Tim Banning at FHO has built over 50 hemis with them he is using Manley spring

if your running a stock OEM Mopar block you really don't need the EDM lifters due to the stock blocks having a bunch of lifter bore to lifter clearances, a bunch
Try priming a motor with the intake valley pan off the amount of oil leaking between the lifters and the lifter bores onto the cam is a bunch

I use the Comp EDM lifters which are not tool steel. My cam was nitrided and I broke it in on just the outer springs. My pressures are like 140 on seat about 350 open. Been running that setup in my 63 over 8 years since June 2011 and it still runs the same 10.70's and 10.80's. Ron

Ron, which lobe family did you use again? XX or XTQ?

I use the Amsoil Dominator series oil in a 20/50, but I think I can get away with a 10-40. Amsoil doesn't offer a 10-40 in a performance oil, so I may go back to the ole Brad Penn. Spring pressures are 135/430.

I would have to ask Dwayne Porter as it is a cam he did for me. Ron

FWIW, my last sft was a XX spec'd by & sourced from Dwayne for my old Stage VI combination. I had Schubecks at the time, but would probably go w/ standard EDM lifters today.

Still not sure on whether nitriding is a "no brainer" at this point.

Why risk cam lobe failures on any flat tappet cam when you know the history of failures since zinc was removed from most engine oil

Use good race oil like Penn Grade and add a small bottle of zinc additive for insurance. That and EDM lifters works for me.

I know I'm not the first person to mention this, but too much "zinc" is a bad thing. If you take a high-zinc oil and put more in it that may -- or may not -- mix properly w/ the base oil, how are you going to know when you've passed the "Ooops..." point?

To little or to much, which would you choose. I know I just went 4 years with a .650 lift solid cam and it runs as good today as the day I put it in. Same spark plugs too. Lol.

My choice is to use an oil that doesn't need to be "improved".

Ohhhh ok. I see said the blind man. When you get that car out and about let us know how that works out for you. 😂

No problem. BTW, I switched to a solid roller, but will still run the good oil.

Forgot to ask how many miles on the street you ran up in those four years... I put about 5000 on my last .600" sft cam.

Sorry I race my cars. I haven’t been a “street hoopie” since In the early 1980’s when I grew up. My 6 cylinder Malibu does the speed limit plus a little more and I never will be a car show guy.

That's 5000 miles on a pump-gas 10-sec street car running up most of its miles driving to & from the track for both bracket races and test & tune events. No show car here, either, since I sold my A12 Road Runner years ago.

Your turn.

(We could do this until our keyboards are worn out, but I'm sure we both have more important things to deal with.)

Ya you won. Lol. I’m worn out. Goodnight 💤

You still win; my junk hasn't been running in 10 years. But it's getting much closer...