Re: The good, the bad, and the ugly,2update, new motor combo

I finally got the 528 apart. Found some issues. #6 Jesel intake lash loose by .003, the paired rocker shaft was chewed up on the pushrod side of the offset rocker. The whole valvetrain will come apart AGAIN down to the individual rockers for inspection with a jewellers loop to look for anything getting ready to fail. Last outing the bypass in the oilpump stuck and i had had trouble pulling a prime with the Milodon five lobe extra volume pump. I use a single pickup and had capped the other intake port. That left a cavity of .590 x 4 inch plus the transfer slot on the unused side of the pump. I am going to fill it with a 9/16 × 4 inch piece of rod to see if that will eliminate the problem with poor/no priming.
The bearings were hurt. Mains not so bad, coating wore off on some and a few scratches. Rods were in tough shape with some serious smearing of bearing material on some. Crank had scratches on the rod throws, mains look good but maybe could use a polish.
So with having to regrind the rod journals i plan to offset grind them to 2.10 from 2.375 for a stroke of 4.400 to 4.410 for an added 32 cubes, bringing the motor out to 560 from 528. The rods will be changed to BME aluminum 6.815 c to c, .990 pins. Pistons are going to Line 2Line for coating. The cylinder bores need a rehone and will probably be out .002 or .003 oversize to get them cleaned up. The old rods were Manley Hbeam 6.965 long, 910 grams each. Going to aluminum and the 2.100 bearings ought to lighten things up a bit.
I am hoping to pick up .10 to .15 with the new combo. The 440-1 heads had been fully ported (years ago) with an intake volume of 365cc, 2.300 intake valves installed, alky injection and a 3x indy intake. The cam is a Jones Cams with 85510 intake lobes, .510 lobe lift, 284 dur @ .050. Exhaust are 85480 lobes with 296 @ .050 and .480 lobes, LSA is 114. Net lifts are about .850 and .800 . Both sides have 1.70 ratio rockers. Opinions on what this added 32 cubes may do for me appreciated! So thats the story. I hope to get it out by mid May next spring provided the snow is gone!!

Ambitious as always Greg..... it’ll be interesting to see what the added cubes will do. Perhaps more power at a slightly lower rpm?

That is what i am hoping for all though i hope it will carry the same hp up top as it did at 528 inches. I trap at 7300 now, hope another 100 rpm won't be too much strain on stuff.

Thoughts? I wish I had your get up and go but I’m glad I don’t have your desire to build oddball combos. Being you aren’t a heads up Racer it just seems to me that you took what was a reliable combo years ago and turned it into something on the raged edge. Sometimes we take the fun right out of the sport

John, i admit it cost me some of the fun, and added frustration. But the rewards were always going a bit faster, and the satisfaction that i was a good part of the builds. I always got a great deal of help hear though, all the way back to 1999? I have had issues with the Jesel stuff from way back in 1999! That was on a 499 lowdeck build, and did go rounds for awhile but the poor k1000h springs started to kill rocker bearings, and i broke a few of those springs. I went to Comp 947 springs and picked up .08 in the 1/8th mile! On the 528 build I used an Isky RR735 cam, it worked great and made great power. But i had a new cam designed and the lobes were harsh and rocker failures increased. I should have put that Isky cam back in but didn't.
I suspect i should have had the whole set of rocker arms rebuilt when the failures started, but didn't and suffered more failures as a result. I will be 70 this Jan and figure this time around will be my last engine build before i give it up for good, so i am putting extra care into making sure everything is in excellent shape when it goes together, and plan on dynoing it next spring when done. At my race weight of 3040 it takes about 32 hp to go .10 faster, so a tenth would be a good gain. Lets hope.

I’m going in the opposite direction from Greg as I get older.
I want the stuff to require less time and energy from me to keep it going.

I wish you good luck with the build, and as always will be following the results.

Thanks Dwayne. Life is changing for me, i sold my other 65 street Dart and bought a turn key hotrod that I won't have to work on.
A 2019. Mustang GT with 10 speed auto. I know, blasphemy. But that hotrod runs high 11s at 119 bone stock! And it is a ball to drive! So now I just putz with the racecar and hope to run it two or three times a year. The rest of the time i am out cruzin😊😊

Sorry to hear about the carnage Greg. Couple things come to mind...may want to talk to crank grinder to see if that amount of offsetting will compromise oiling position on the journals. (shafttech does good work) Next is the new stroke and rod combo packaged to reuse your old pistons?

Hcb, thanks for the tip on the oil passages. I may have to have them welded a touch before grinding? The rods are going to be BME 6.815 ALUMINUM 396 FORGINGS. The pistons will work most likely as Line2Line said they can coat them up to .020 ! I probably only need .002 or .003. I was thinking about the oil holes, and it might be close since the bearings will be sbc width, a fair amount narrower than mopars. I had a set of rods made the same way to go to 4 inch on a stock 440 crank a number of years ago. BME made the rod bodys mopar rod width with the sbc bearings centered. Made a nice 475 inch combo in a 440 block.
The other things i think i need are to upgrade to .180 wall piston pins from .150 and cut some of the dome off the pistons to keep comepression at 15.5 or less. With a 4.41 stroke going 7400 rpm the guy at CpCarrillo suggested it.

I know aluminum is what people run to go faster, but...., in the interest of reliability, wouldn’t a steel rod do the job. Both of my 580 inch motors have steel Oliver’s, and one is shifted at 7400 and one at 7600. I know I sleep better because of it, probly giving up some power. Curious if anyone has a rough idea how much. Jim

I like steel rods too, but nobody makes a bigblock rod with a 2.100 bearing. Hence the need for a custom rod.

I woke up with. Ideas spinning in my head about this new build. If i am having custom rods made, then i can have the rod bearing tangs (slots?) Cut to move the bearings off center a touch if needed. The crank is at the engine shop right now so i will have to go measure everything and talk to the crank people and BME.

I will check out the GRP rods. Looks like they might even be less expensive. On the oil hole locations maybe GRP can offset the bearings a touch if needed. Thanks much to all that contribute to this thread! The help and sugestions keep me from picking the wrong parts, etc and make success much more likely!!!

100% for your application. I put 0.185" wall, 0.990" dia pins in my 540 (4.5" dia piston) from Diamond (4130 material). Will be a big help with durability.

Talked to my machinist today. The crank is going out for max offset rod journals, from 4.15 to about 4.415. Will be 560 cubes. I talked to GRP rods and they make big block rods with 2.100 rod bearings, and are less than BME by $300! That $300 will more than cover the cost of .180 wall piston pins. Compression will be set at 15/1 or max 15.5/1 depending on the final volumes. So thats the plan. A rehone, coat the pistons at line2line, new low tension rings, valve job freshened and springs checked. I hope to see an honest 880 hp on the dyno!😃

Have you thought of using the .043,.043 rings with the 1/16 low tension oil rings?
if not maybe you should

Cab i am reusing my old pistons. They have .043 top and second, with 3/16 low tension oil rings with a vacuum pump.

Well, I can't go to the 2.100 rod bearing for a stroke increase. Not for the full .275 increase anyway. It would move the rod bearing oul holes too far and thin the inside of the crank throw. So i decided to go with a 2.20 bearing and 4.315 stroke instead. Not quite what i wanted but thats life. It will be interesting to see what these changes will do for power. The cubes will be 550.5.

You still amaze me, Greg! Keep at it my friend!

Wes

Well, I can't go to the 2.100 rod bearing for a stroke increase. Not for the full .275 increase anyway. It would move the rod bearing oul holes too far and thin the inside of the crank throw. So i decided to go with a 2.20 bearing and 4.315 stroke instead. Not quite what i wanted but thats life. It will be interesting to see what these changes will do for power. The cubes will be 550.5.
Edit;
I got lucky today. molner makes a Hemi length H beam 6.860 rod with .990 pin and bbc 2.200 rod bearing! With my 1.660 ch pistons, 1/2 of 4.315 stroke = 2.1575 it puts me at .022 in the hole. Cometic makes a .027 thick gasket to fit providing .049 piston to head. Right where i want to be! Rods are on order!

Sounds very tight Is this an "on the edge" drag engine?

This is my last effort to go a bit faster. I assume .049 is plenty of piston to head clearance for steel rods. I had no issues at .045. Compression will be 15.5 to 1. The valvetrain is where the most issues have been.

Wishing you the best of luck,,GET IT!!

Thanks Hemi itis! I just got the specs after the rehone. Had to go out to 4.5043 to get all eight holes clean. Line2line can easily make that up they say. They coat the skirts so only 25 percent of the desired piston to wall clearance is left, then a three step warmup/ cooldown process wears in the coating to proper fit and it gets saturated with oil and is ready to go. Since it needs a full cooldown three times that rules out dynoing the motor. Hopefully this coating will stablize everything and help make more power.

Me thinks the dyno testing would be the perfect way to warm it up and cool it down 3 times very quickly with a electric water pump

Just a guess but i thought they wanted the motor almost room temp each time. I will have to check with L2L, as a dyno session sure would be nice.

All the engine dyno facility I've used have local water supply piped into a tower, the towers have thermostat to set the run temps so you can test it at 220F down to the local water temps coming out of the pipes to the towers
I like to do my pulls between 150F to 180 F, like I race my motors at

Thanks Cab.

Yes i agree with what Cab said about being able to control dyno coolant temperatures. Never had a problem. Also, that is what i was speaking of when i spoke to the maximum safe amount to offset that journal.