TF270 accessories

what rockers and headers fit these heads? After the couple track outings with the 511 using Victor MW heads and running a best 10.40 on pump gas, thought I would shave them enough to get 12.5:1 compression as a fix or wake up. Being I have a big intake"Indy 400-3" big heads" 330cc port volume" and big cam "270@50" my thought was it needs some compression to make the combo work properly. Second thought was to sell the heads and get a pair of 270's, but that would be quite an investment for not much more gain. Would my Maddog headers on my victors fit the 270 heads in an A body? Just kicking ideas around right now. Thanks

Before i did all that i would try to figure out how to get what you have to run up to its potential
500+ inch motor with good heads should run 9’s falling off a log in an A body

What do the 60, 330 and 660 Ft. times look like?

1.45, 4.272, 6.626 . The vert may be a tad on the tight side, but if the engine made more power it would make up the difference and stall higher.

That's what I have done. The engine is not making the power it should. Every thing in the combo is big except the compression, so that will now get addressed. I feel the ports are sub par design compared to TF and Indy. They are huge and lazy from what I can gather. Talked to a few on another forum and they have very similar combos going fast. Only difference is they have 12.5-13:1 compression and roller cams. I don't fell my cam is far off if any.

My 67 has a 470 , the CR is 12.5

cam is not wild, its a flat tappet, heads are Victors , more or less OTB ..

Car weighs 3280 with me in it ..

It has run the best of 10.41 to date, we have had lousy summer air here last two years , best 60 to date .1.37 --most often its 1.385

MPH is about 124.5 to 125 most of the time

I think in cool air it will pickup to at least 10.36 to 10.38

It’s purely a car/combo problem.

His heads have already run well into 9’s with the car they used to be in.

I agree partly. I will put some double adjustable's on front next time out. I currently have 60/40's on front. I didn't like the 90/10's that were on it. I still believe it is not making the power it should as is. Something is off in the combo and not sure what it is, best guess is the 11.25:1 compression. I spoke with MALEX over on B bodies, he has the same combo with a roller. His was a slouch with 9.5:1, so he bumped it to 10.5:1 and still not impressive. He then shaved the heads to max giving him 12.8:1, that woke it up big time. I believe he is the one running 10 o's with same weight as me now.

definitely not living up to its promise .
what is rear suspension ? MPH ?
I run Crane Gold 1.5 rockers on my 270s , cant help you with headers I run Dougs

Tex

Dana 60 with 4.10 gear. Calvert mono's with calvert 9 way shock set on 5. It frequently spun the tire with the sb 408 and the shock set on 3 and never spun the tire set on 5 with bb 511. Looks down on power to me.

Thanks. If you read what i said closely that's exactly what i said. “ with those heads and 500+ Inches it should run 9’s falling off a log in an A body.
Obviously the combo isn't right, if it was the results would be different. We are saying the same thing...lol

yep, but as I said 1 major thing is different between that combo and mine, compression. That 511 combo that ran 9.70's in a 3500# road runner also had close to 13:1 compression from what I was told. The calculators show not much gain horsepower wise in 1-1.5 point increase in compression. MALEX told me it took compression to run the numbers in his 511 combo with these heads. Not many have experience with these heads. I called Best Machine today and spoke with Chuck about it. He has no experience with these heads either, but his advise was to try more timing and maybe less jet. Some of his combos are running 38-40* of timing and some have 16:1 compression, yeah, crazy i know. Also suggested a different carb like a 4150 1050 for this combo. Chuck also said shaving these heads wont be inexpensive either. Looking at over $500 plus gaskets. He computes my combo to 570hp. That's pathetic in my opinion. I still think it needs more compression, but thats not a very economical way to go. Loosening the vert is $125 . gonna give it some more thought before I pull any thing apart. Thanks guys.

1. What's your budget for continuing to f%$k with this combination?

2. At what level of performance are you going to say it's good enough?

3. Have you ever heard the old Styx song "Too much time on my hands"?

Want to "proof of concept" your hypothesis it doesn't have enough CR? Put a smaller cam in it to build more cylinder pressure. PorkyPig would have told you to stuff a Hughes HTL6064 in it and see how it responds.

Loosening the lash .004 to .008 will make the cam smaller also

Dave,

You and I have kabitzed about my combo, and for what it is, it runs, its not bad.....Why does it run, I like to tinker. We sit around the shop or over lunch some days and look for ways to get more out of it...My heads don't flow $hit compared to what is out there these days. If this thing had real heads, I would be in the low 9's...

Lets talk about what you have and how it runs....As far as compression, I did the Wallace calc thing, and its not as much as you might think.

Thats first thing i would try, smaller cam on a narrower( 108) LSA

What's your shift point and what rpm does it go through the traps? Ever run a shift loop? You'll be surprised what a difference that makes.

[quote=mopar dave. I called Best Machine today and spoke with Chuck about it. , yeah, crazy i know. Also suggested a different carb like a 4150 1050 for this combo. [/quote]

Not apples to apples comparsion but on my race car only I ran faster with the 1050 dominator on the car vs 1000 Holley 4150 carb

I don't like harping on this, but here's some data that should put some perspective on how out of sync something is w/ your combination.

This was a 10.7 CR RB 452 w/ 305 (not a misprint) CFM Stage VI heads, 266 at .050 x .600 x 108 solid flat-tappet cam, and a small 1.42 venturi x 1.75 throttle 4150 carb on a standard Victor intake.

Engine made ~ 610 HP peak at 6300; ~ 570 torque peak at 4900

E-body aerodynamics... not great.

4200 stall / 4500-flash 9.5 converter; 8% slippage

4.10s; M/T ET Street 275/60R15s w/ loaded radius of ~ 13.7"

Best pass launching from approx 2200 RPM, 1-2 shift at 6300, 2-3 shift at 6500, trap RPM 6800+:

60' - 1.454
330 - 4.254
660' - 6.653 at 102.03
1000' - 8.745
1320' - 10.523 at 126.44

Track digital scale showed 3755#s w/ driver right after this pass.

Track elevation is 80'; weather conditions for that run were 63*, 70% humidity, 30.05" barometric pressure.

No, It's NOT an apples-to-apples comparison w/ your results. But your 60/330/660 times aren't much different than mine. Mine ran out of steam on the big end, though.

Here's another long thread from a couple years ago that's also NOT apples-to-apples w/ what we're talking about, but still might be of interest: HERE

Seems like Dave is just dying to make major changes to a combo that only has a hand full of runs on it.

Still no determination on the valve spring situation and the affect that could be having on the lack of top end pull.

If you really couldn’t find someone to test the current springs........ they’re not that expensive.
Buy something new that is a good match for the cam and just put them in.
Less than $200 and a few hours time.

It’s your car........ so you’ll go about it however you see fit.



Soooo....... you think that if you pulled your motor out, brought it to a reputable dyno service and ran it just like it sits....... it would make 570hp?
A motor like that should be 675-700hp.
If you did nothing but swap to TF270’s...... you’d be expecting to pick up 100-130hp over your CNC ported Victors....... with zero other changes?

That would mean you’d be expecting to pick up 7-9mph in the 1/4 from the head swap alone.

I have to switch from + mode to mode for my own sanity.

Got enough problem sticking to my own plan, much less helping others figure sh!t out.

Thanks for the link. Rob from RAMM says the Victors need some help to make them flow, just as I have been saying and he suggested a smaller collector as well. Looks like I should be using 3" pipe instead of the 3.5" I have been using to help increase the flow thru the head and into the cylinders. Dwayne says the bowls are too small as well and need attention. Your on the same page as well with the low velocity and has been my point with the compression bump to help speed up the port flow. I have done a bunch of research on many of the other Mopar sites and anyone running a combo similar to mine with these Victors has 12.5:1 or more compression to run low 10's or 9's or up around the 700+HP numbers. Its just seems compression makes them work. Its clear to me these heads need help and i'm sure my whole package as a whole could use some tweaks as well, but I believe the heads need the most attention. I was looking at the TF270 because it flows the same as my head with a much smaller port. If I had the cash I would drop it on the 270's right now and be done with this patch work.

They have a reputable dyno and knowledge which would be a VALUABLE tool for you at this point. IMO you have been given good advice by some of the best but, as has been said 'it's your project'.

Double, triple, quadruple check that you are getting WOT !!!

I check that every time I remove and replace the carb, but thanks. Always a good point

Absolutely, keep it coming.

If Stock Eliminator had a class where the engine was limited to 511 inches, pump gas and Victor MW heads the cars would be in the 8's. So I don't think there is anything wrong with your basic combination, you just need to sort out the details.

That's seems to be what i'm getting from most here. I think the most economical way would be to go in baby steps here and get a few springs checked, then back to the track for some driving techniques like short shifting for one. Try some timing loops and play with jetting. This combo should work. Although I thought I played with the timing and jetting enough, but maybe not from what i'm hearing now.

Dave,
It takes time. I have been developing my combo since 2012....Lets talk about yours and see where you think its missing....Right off the bat, your thinking its the heads....Lots of things to check there....Valve springs.....Most over looked aspect of the heads. Pull a couple, check them.....Bent valve causes all kinds of issues....What have you checked and What does it drive like?

It runs and drives great. It doesn't skip a beat and going down the track you expect a low 10 slip, but that's not what ya get. Its a great engine, just don't run to my expectations. I tried 34* an 36* at the track. Didn't make much difference from what I remember. tried replacing .028" high speed bleeds with .030" it went too lean and not liking that either. Tried removing air cleaner and it didn't like that either. Tried running without the 1" 4 hole tapered spacer and it didn't like that either. Tried foot braking at 2000rpm and 2500rpm, it liked 2500 better. Tried shifting at 6600 then tried 6800 and not much difference if any. I need to try shifting at 6000 just to see results. I think that would tell a lot right there. I need to try leaning the front of the carb down a bit as it has .067 pvcr with a 82 jet and an 88 in rear. It has BLP jets in it so that is the conversion. Seems like wide open it might have too much fuel in the front. I also would like to try 37 and 38* of timing at the track. Those things there once done should give me some data to chew on. Maybe it would be best to try 88 square jetting instead of running that power valve. A lot of things yet to try.

If going from 34° to 36° didn't gain anything, I would be surprised if adding more total advance got you anywhere. Also, has true TDC been verified against the marks on the balancer; does the ignition system have any curve, or is it locked out?

How does the plugs look, from cylinder to cylinder?

Also, since the cam is fairly generous, compared to the CR, what fuel is being run in the car? Sometimes, some combos actually run a little better with a lower octane rated fuel. Not saying it's the case here, just something to consider.

If you have plenty of valve 2 piston clearance, how about advancing the cam some? Getting that intake valve closed earlier might help build a little more pressure, especially at lower speeds. If the combo likes that, and a little extra valve lash... Fairly cheap to try, just a couple of gaskets.

Also, tried launching @ 3000? If it liked 2500 > 2000...

I realize the OP may have tried any or all of these things, just trying to throw some cheap and easy things to try and check out there.

All very good points. First time out the air temp was 72* and I had timing on 36*. I ran the first 3 passes on 36* of timing and someone had oiled down the track,so i took the time to set the timing at 34* just to try. By the time they cleaned that up and I made my way back up there thru the long line the air temp had dropped quite a bit. I would say 65*air temp by then. Car went faster, so I left the timing at 34* for every pass after that. Every pass from then on was faster. The air temp continued to drop right til my last pass which ran a 10.401@129.75 and air temp 58* with low humidity, I believe 45%. So that needs to be retested.
I run a short curve. I should just lock it out. Yes, the timing tab has been set to TDC, but i'm thinking I may install a factory cover with the timing tab cast in and as you suggest bumping the cam timing ahead while i'm at it as my cranking compression is a bit low at 175/180. How many degrees? 2?
Ran 93 pump gas in it with about 3 gallons of 110 as a mix.
Its hard to foot brake to 3000 as the vert is too tight in my opinion, it starts to push the tires thru the beam.
Thanks

You could tighten up the lash from.004 to .008 to make the cam bigger, more lift and duration sooner also
Lots of easy things to test with, good luck

At the above shift points what did it go through the traps at. If you are shifting at 66-6800 I'd want it 7000-7200 going through.

I'm not sure where it wants to be shifted. I just went for what might be my last blast in it for this year. Sure is a fun car to drive on the street, I will say that. no dips or sags or stumbles, It runs very good on the street. If ya didn't know better, you would think it had a 4150 on it. Very good street manners in my opinion. I was just out running it up to 7000 thru the gears, seems like it runs out 66 or 6700. Really hard to tell, but it is done at 69 to 7000. It might be worth it just to get on a chassis dyno and find peak torque and best timing. I currently have the timing at 37* total and I leaned to carb down a bit, but its still at 11.7AFR WO with the fuel I just put in it. Needed to get rid of what was left of the race fuel for the season. With straight pump gas its usually around 12.5 WO throttle. My thought right now is that the timing is very close at 36-37*, just by looking at the plug, watching vacuum and listening to it, driving it and a bit of track time. The carb could use a little time I think on the pvcr's as the specs show more fuel in the front than rear. .067pvcr 82 jet front and 88 rear. I need to get my carb book out to see what is equivalent in pvcr to 6 jet sizes.
It went thru traps at 6900 RPM

After talking to Dwayne and a few others, I do need to spend some more time on tuning. see what happens.

If it was my car I'd pull the engine and get it on the dyno over the winter. I'd also be prepared to change the cam since my guess is that yours is too big for your combo. But I understand that not everyone has the same resources I do so what works for me might not work for someone else.

Not sure if this helps but will tell my story first combination
B block 400 499'
4.150 stroke
13.1 compression
Cam motion 283 Duration 704. 660 -2 retarded roller
Isky redzones
2 inch fendwell
Hughes Max Wedge Victors 333cc first editionnot the monster max
indy 4150 intake cast with 2 inch spacer with 1050 4150QF
40 degrees timing on engine dyno
724 at 6800 650 at 5200

Car 67 Barracuda
14.32 tire 456 dana
Glide with 1.96
6000vert
Weight 2762 w/ driver
Changed from 4150 to 1100cfm 3 circuit Dommy (pro systems)
35 degrees timing
License pass
9.68 at 136.56 mph
At 3000ft
Needless to say was not impressed with the performance but over the years tweaked the motor

*went from 35 degrees to 40 degrees.
New best 9.61 @138 mph
* went from mineral oil to synthetic
New best 9.55 at 139mph


Next race season
Switched to indy 4500 intake w/ plenum modded from ebay (lol)
Hvh super sucker cloverleaf 2 inch
*timing at 35 degrees (mistake lol)
New best 9.50 at 142.3 mph

Same year found a used holley ultra dom 2 circuit 1150 from holley
Carb to carb swap
New best
9.41 at 143.32 mph

1.96 glide gear broke (dang)

New 1.80 gear set

New slow e.t 9.51 at 142.3
Timing from 35 degrees to 42 degrees
New returning best: 9.43 at 142.6

Following race season

Added 3.5 inch collector extensions
Built airpan seal to hood
Hvh cloverleaf to a regular 2inch super sucker
Slight porting of intake runners +port match
New best 9.33 at 143 mph

Next year

Went to a BTE 1.98 gearset
New et best 9.23 at 144mph

ets recorded around 3000ft for comparison reasons

Sometimes you just have to tune what you got and work the car around the combo.
1 freshening same exact long block.

With tuning guessing engine makes 750-770 hp 650t shift at 7200 first/drive

Having a camera man + go pro + afr gauge helps with tuning. Having more eyes than your own is your greatest ally.

Lady driven. It's my mother. Me and the ol'man are the pit bitches.

(Knowledge from Moparts members greatly assisted with the progression of the car.)

Thank you. Ryan

Why is that cam retarded 4 degrees? Is it installed at 4 degrees further away from TDC on the intake lobe center than the exhaust lobe is?
What lobe separation angle is this cam ground on and where is the intake lobe center installed now ?

My apologies it was installed -2 ill make the correction in the post

The short block was originally installed in a 3300 pound Ebody with 2.19 valve E heads that made 688 with the same camshaft.
Used a 727 with a brake with a 5000 10 inch vert ran consistent 10.10s with a 4150 1050 with the same cam. With the lighter car engine builder decided to retard the cam for the glide and the looser converter im guessing. Power range was 5000-6500 but when through at 7100. Standard port head was tapped out after 6500 with that particular combination.

I will attach the cam card

Thanks for that combo and your experience's with it. I'll surprised with the 5* timing differences with the changes, but with same 4.25 stroke and heads. I just called Comp Cams to get a better understanding of the cam I have in it. Dwayne says it has a mild lobe, Comp says its a 32.7 on a scale of 25-50 for intensity. They also tell me it has 4* ground in and should be dot to dot to have the proper advance set. I degree'd it to 105.5, but i'm pretty sure it was not dot to dot at the 105.5* setting. Maybe I have the cam 4* too far advanced? Don't know, but I will pull the cover and check it and get some springs off for checking as well. I thought it was odd i have .160 pv clearance on int. and .230 on ex. Not sure,but that could be an indication too far advanced.
Still playing with the carb. Dom told me to drill the pvcr's a little bigger .080" to help get up on the power quicker. I did this and it worked. Hits the vert hard and quicker blowing the tires off thru 1st and 2nd til I lift or shift. This is with the new M/T R radials that really stick. Tach goes right to 68-6900rpm and lays there til lift or shift. That was a good tweak. Still fat on top and expected with the bigger pvcr's, so will try a .029HS bleed and also square jetting today. No real data, just street tuning for now. Timing at 37* total now and engine does not skip a beat and never has.

From what i've seen most mopars like 38* timing the trickflow heads seem to like 34-36 degrees maybe because of the better combustion chamber. Also the pistons in our combo are domed with a 70. Head gasket so im guessing it wants more timing from the dome i also found it odd that it liked so much timing.

Our 1150 ultra we run 98 squared with 30hispeed. In good air under 2000 we go 28 and 99. Also run c114 vp. Runs good for what we need it for.

The cam spec i have posted worked really well at 11.1 maybe see what they think about that particular cam. It'a also from cammotion

So you’re within 1/2 a degree of 4deg advanced.

Do you not trust that you degreed it in properly?

Frankly, you’re calling everyone under the sun and getting tons of info, much of which is just erroneous.

Like the cam advance for example.
It makes absolutely zero difference whether there was 0, or 4*, or 50* advance ground into it.
You do what’s required to install it where you want it.

If it’s in at 105.5....... I doubt you’ll find any magic by moving it......... but, there is only one way to know.
And that’s to move it and see what happens.

If you bought a cam that had a 108lsa, and had 4* advance ground in it, and stick it in the motor, degreed it in and found it was in at 112.
You call the cam grinder and they tell you it should have come right in at 104.
So, do you leave it at 112 because the cam grinder(who is not working along side of you while you’re installing the cam) said it really should have come in at 104........or do you move it because it’s not at 104?

Do you think there is somehow a difference between the cam being in at 105.5 with the gears dot-to-dot vs the gears being advanced to the +4(or -6, or off a tooth, or any other way imaginable)and the cam being at 105.5?

105.5 is 105.5........ doesn’t make any difference how you got it there.

Yes, 105.5 is what I degree'd the cam to and that is where I would want it. I'm just saying the dots where not lined up with the cam being degree'd at 105.5 from what I remember and it wouldn't hurt to check. Maybe my math was off, who knows. Also, I want to install a factory cover with the timing scale mounted on it for more accurate timing settings. I don't like the one I have. So it's a win win.

Just do what you need to do to get confidence in your tune. Keeping careful notes and taking pictures as you go is the best method I know. When I degree a cam in on one of my engines I take a picture of the timing wheel when I'm finished. Then I can look back thru my pictures and see what it was. I don't trust my memory or my notes.

Good advise Andy . Wish I would have done that, but the chain cover is coming off regardless. If I don't bump the compression up to where I think it needs to be, then a smaller more aggressive cam change may be just the ticket for now. I'm thinking something like a 266/270@50 on 108 and same lift, but more aggressive lobe. something like a 27 or 28. First need to get the springs checked and go from there. It may take me a bit, but I will get this sorted out, I always do.
The square jet test went ok. Can't cruise it on the street, but it runs great at WOT. Cruises 11.5-12.5 fat. Wide open was 13.0-13.2 with the bigger .029" HS air bleed in the mix. I think that air bleed will work good in warmer summer weather. Thanks for the help guys.

Are you checking the cam timing off of the lifters or valve retainers with light checking springs like the motor will be ran with the rocker arms on it with the lash set cold for the aluminum heads?
I do the initial cam timing check on the lifters and do the final cam timing off of the intake lobe centers at the retainers with light checking springs and I always verify the exhaust lobe centers once I have the intake lobe set where I want it to make sure the cam is ground on the LSA the cam card says it is I've found more than one cam, from two different makers, that where not ground on the LSA the cam card called for One was ground on a 101 ILC when the card called for 104 ILC and the other was ground with 8 degree retard ground in it, that rascal wouldn't fall out of tree installed like that

Cab, I degree'd the cam with the heads off and used a tool that fits in the intake lifter bore and rides directly on the cam. I didn't double check the accuracy of the cam, but sounds like I should have. Now that the engine is fully assembled, I don't think the tool will fit in there, so this time I will have to measure off the lifters edge.

Unless your time & budget is unlimited, you need to approach it like you're in a class that requires the parts you have already to be legal, and the goal is to get it dialed in as best you can given those specific constraints.

The problem when I try this is that I keep changing classes on myself. &

Or, mock it up to read off the pushrod end. That might be an easier way to get an accurate reading w/ the heads still on (but the rockers off, obviously).

I'm with you. My class is constantly changing as well. I thought I was done with this go fast stuff, but its in my blood and has been since I was 14,well, maybe 7 is more like it. I know I told Dwayne I wanted a street/strip cam easy on parts when he spec'd this cam and that's what he gave me. I understand and my own fault. I thought I was all grown up now and didn't need to go real fast anymore. I was wrong. I now need to turn this program up a couple notches. I want to run 10 o's or near it, so what ever it takes within reason, more compression, a more aggressive cam lobe that will live on the street and a bunch more tuning.

Shouldnt be hard. I had a smallblock i drove everywhere with a roller did that had mild lobes Dwayne did cam on ran 9’s easily at almost identical weight.
Just gotta get the combo right. I know you will.

If I were to do compression and a roller I have no doubt it would go low 10's and maybe better with some work. Looks like a more aggressive flat tappet isn't worth much and a roller maybe 15hp and same for compression, but together it's a good boost.

The rpm is high ? Converter/trans issue ?
You are mid 125-127MPH? I am 130mph @ 6700 with 30"radial Flat tappet 272@050/600 nett lift . @ 3780lbs . 6000 converter shift @ 6500 (faster than 6300)
Last time out :
1.439
4.205
6.553 @ 104.17
Best sixty is in the 1.42s

Your numbers :
"1.45, 4.272, 6.626 . The vert may be a tad on the tight side, but if the engine made more power it would make up the difference and stall higher."


Tex

That's been my thought too. Leave the vert in for now. My best 1/4 was 10.40@129.75. What's your cubic inch. My gear is a 4.10 with a 28" tire. Gonna switch to a 3.73 late next year.

505ci@11.0:1 pump gas . 4.1 gear . If you are running a 28"radial rpm is about right , I went 10.25@129.65 right around 7000 with a 28x10.5 Pro bracket radial . That was turning off the line for a 1.45-46 sixty . Now have the 29.5x10.5 Pro BR , 28s didn't like the T brake at least not at that time .
Slower et = chassis setup or other ? . NOT HP . You are mph ok for 10.20s . What MPH do you gain in 2nd half of the 1/4 ? If you run 1/4 ?

The vert comment was yours I copied .
But when I foot braked the 505 with standard port heads , 4150 carb ,it went 10.50 , changed to smaller size vert , went from 5000 to 5800 , same et's . Fitted 4500 same et's more consistent , though didn't have much tuning till I split intake ports and the block .
I would be getting the car better before I spent more money .

Tex

I ran 105.2 in the 1/8 mile and 129.75 in the 1/4. I'm sure the car needs some tuning of its own as well. Double adjustable Vikings are on my list for the front. I have Calverts on the rear that were set on 5 and left at that setting. I will try tightening those up next time out.

Why not pull the engine over the winter and get it on a dyno? Then you'll know how much power it is making and what the torque curve looks like. If you are super ambitious you can even line up some parts for testing on the dyno. Intake manifolds and carbs are easy to swap. Ignition timing is easy to adjust, etc. A cam change on the dyno is a major thrash so you might not want to attempt that but you should still be able to learn a lot.

The mph you posted suggest that the times are 6.4xx in the 1/8 and 10.2-10.3 in the quarter .. work on chassis before spending money on new parts

Yeh, but then you’d know what it makes for tq/hp, and what it “should” run, and be able to make informed decisions on how to proceed based on the results.

What’s the fun in that?

I only dyno my engine so I can make pretty graphs with the data that doesn't mean anything to me.

I'm too lazy for all of that. I could put it on a chassis dyno and find the best timing and peak torque. Just gonna tune it in the car. They want $700 for chassis tuning now. Last time I went it cost me $250. Everything has gone stupid expensive anymore. I will figure this out, it will just take a little longer. Thanks Andy

I think your right, but the car and the engine need a bit of attention IMO.

Your right Dwayne, I have seen a few engines make big power on a dyno, but not so impressive at the track. Oh, Buy the way Dwayne, I received my height mic today. Not sure how to read it thou. I may have these springs off in the next week or so.

If you have a set of dial calipers use it to find what the height mike reads

Thanks Cab. I sat down and took a couple minutes with it and I understand it now. The scale just looked a bit different from my micrometers. Seems easy enough to use. It's a proform. Not sure how accurate it is.

I've had a bench mounted 1000 Lb. valve spring tester for many years, I use a set of small inside calipers to measure the installed height of the outer spring seat and the retainer and then add the thickness of the retainer on the spring to set up the installed height of all my heads I do, I use valve springs shims to shoot for + or- 5Llbs on the seats and no more than 15 to 20 Lbs. difference on the open heights
I will swap the inner springs and dampeners, if they springs have them, around to get those results

Told you before when you were attacking me in other Victor cylinder head threads----These heads take serious work and ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$) to get them to perform. You called me all kinds of unpleasantries. These heads suck in terms of bang vs buck--period. J.Rob

p.s. @ CCDave--I could describe in great detail what it would take to get your heads up to snuff but ........

You have the wrong guy, but with same problem. What works and does not work with these heads? I would like to know the details. PM me if ya want.

It’s easy enough...... just copy what Todd did with the motor that was running solidly in the 9’s........ with the very heads that are on your motor.

In my mind it’s simple........ your heads(not heads like your heads)have already proven they are capable of going way quicker than you have.
Whatever the problem is.........it isn’t the heads themselves.

I would sure think it would run the same if I copied what Todd did with that engine. More compression and a short roller, but I don't know what they had for duration. Maybe a more economical way to go would be a more aggressive lobe flat tappet .625-.650 lift on a 108 with the compression boost. It looks like i'll have the springs on there way to you next week. You tell me if the springs are good or bad and i'll decide what I will do from there. Thanks

I missed that this earlier. You had 11:1 compression in that combo and made 688hp with the 280* cam? Kinda blows my theory on mine needing more compression.

I’m pretty sure it was an off the shelf cam.
I don’t think it was top secret....... just ask Todd for the part number.

[/quote]
Told you before when you were attacking me in other Victor cylinder head threads----These heads take serious work and ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$) to get them to perform. You called me all kinds of unpleasantries. These heads suck in terms of bang vs buck--period. J.Rob

p.s. @ CCDave--I could describe in great detail what it would take to get your heads up to snuff but ........ [/quote]

J.Rob- I for one would really be interested in what you have found to make these heads perform. With a long valve and offset rockers, I would think they have as much potential as 440-1's, and more potential than the Trick Flows (Trick Flows limited by standard offset rockers).

Brad and Dwayne clearly have the Victors working for them!

I’m pretty sure he had posted a pretty detailed thread on them several years ago when he was using them for his Enginemasters entry.

Careful searching would probably get you to the thread.

Thanks, Dwayne, I will search for that thread.

While you are doing that this winter, find the true top dead center (such as with a piston stop and hand turning) and mark it on the new cover (they can be off). I have had good luck with timing marks (+/- 1 deg) over the years; but others have had issues.

When building, I use a dial indicator on the piston (heads not installed) to verify TDC from crank key, damper, cover, etc.

Thanks Jim and yes, that is in my plan. I used a bridge and dial indicator to get that set when I built the engine. Once the cam was broke in I had to remove the cover because of an oil leak and guess what, The timing tab is a bolt on unit and had to be removed. I did my best getting TDC and tab back in proper place with heads on, but I never had 100% confidence in that. It will get fix with the factor cover.

Never assume anything on race, NEVER
Verify exactly where TDC is on the timing cover in relation to the stripe on the dampener