Valve spring pressures and testing

Gonna pull some valve springs and test them. First, my cam is a SFT with .625/.595 actual lift after lash numbers. My current pressures are 145/410 with titanium retainers. Would this be enough? What pressures should I have up to 7000rpm? I need to get a spring tester, which one would you suggest for best accuracy under $200. This cam is in my 511 and is 270@50 on a 110.

I would call the maker of that cam and find out what it likes.
There is no such thing as a "cheap" tester!

What would you suggest for spring tester?

Dwayne specced the cam, right?
Call him and ask what spring to run on it. I would assume you would have done that already back when you bought the cam?

Unless the core and lifters are special, that's about all I'd go. Porter may say otherwise and I'd listen to him.

I use a cheap proform tester, and a calibration spring to make sure its right. Checked it against a Rimac tester as well, and it was within 4 lbs with a 400lb spring.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...R4rrZ5AIVgx6tBh1wiQhxEAQYAyABEgJcc_D_BwE

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-5316/overview/

We spoke about a lot of things as he gave me a bunch of his time. I can't remember if it was him or someone else saying they thought the valves pressures were on the edge of being too light. I will have to go back and reread some posts and PM's. Dwayne did say to check my pressures thou just to be sure. Anyone use the spring testers you squeeze in a vice?

the one I have is junk, not even close.

The first one I bought was rated to 300#. I have a calibrated checking spring and it wasn't even close.

The second one I bought from a member here who was selling a "better" version of the same design rated to 600#. It checked fairly accurate the first couple of times I used it. I tried to use it again recently and it has apparently lost its mind and is reading way off. Entirely possible that I did something "wrong" with it, but I still wouldn't purchase another one if they're damaged inadvertently that easily.

Don't know what I'm going to buy at this point, considering everything that has a good reputation is in a much higher price range... $400++, from what I saw looking around online last night.

My Dad has one of the LSM spring testers. Like everything else they have it wasn't cheap but it seems to work very well. It is only meant to do seat pressure though as it doesn't have enough travel to test open pressures.

One interesting thing in the instructions is that you need to tap on the spring lightly with something once you get the height set to relieve any tension between the inner and outer spring, makes a noticeable difference in the reading.

I have a Proform one and compared it to an LSM one and they were very close......within 5lbs if I recall correctly.

I have one.. at first it was way off.. I changed the gauge 3 times to get it right.. make sure there is
no air in it.. I have 1 master spring that I use to check the low and high end of the gauge.. you have
get a good gauge for it

Buying just one tester, I'd go for an LSM on motor tester. Slap on new spriings idle it, then, run over them with the on motor tester and let that be your down from here number. Point being, you just want to replace them when they start to go away. I found that by being able to easily check them on the motor, I keep a closer eye on them.

What are the dimensions, specs & config (dual, or dual w/ damper) of your springs? Also, any idea what they weigh?

I always wondered if some of you guy shop for the he cheapest Cardiologist and Dentist too. I would rather have a good used tool than a cheap new tool. Lots of deals out there if you dont mind checking around on the Internet

I just thought if the testers under $200 were accurate I would pick one up and check my own springs, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I just want to get a couple check, so it would be wise imo to just take them to a local shop and have them checked. If I did this for a living, then yeah, I would buy the $1000 spring tester.

yeah, I was looking at the 600# tester by Comp. Thought maybe it might be a good piece. Thanks for clearing this up guys.

Looks like Jeg's house-brand testers are identical to what COMP sells, only Jeg's has them for about 1/2 the price. Pay your money and take your chances, I suppose.

I don't know if the LSM bench testers are worth the $400+. Everything above that price level is $800 on up, unless you can find a nice used higher-end tester for a good price.

Maybe because now days in more cases than not the high dollar stuff is the same Chinese crap as the cheap stuff........so why piss away money to say it's a brand name.

I agree with you on looking for older used stuff.....you don't realize how crappy some stuff is made today till you get your hands on some older manufactured tools.

I’m with DT, very easy to check them regularly on motor with the LSM. I have an old 500# Rimac I use when they are off or to compare a used set. I’ve been offered good money for it, but it will stay bolted to my workbench. I also have the LSM on motor spring swap tools for my -1’s and 572-13’s, will even use them when heads are on bench, way more control over inadvertent stuff flying around shop. Spendier stuff, but has helped in some tight spots and good quality stuff. Jim

Went back thru some notes and Dwayne did say my spring pressures look good for 7000RPM. Someone else said they thought they were light. If they are what i was told they look good to me, but need checking for sure. I like the LSM tool for checking seat pressure on the head. Which pressure is most importance, the seat or the open?

Which ever one is off by enough to damage the cam or valve train parts. Sorry but if either open or closed pressures are too high or too low then Carnage is the result.

Also with that much lift you have to check for coil bind and retainer to valve guide/seal clearance.

Ok, Todd at Compitition wedge engines contacted me about the springs and wants to test them his self. He also cleared up some misunderstandings of mine about the Victor MW heads. One piece of advise he gave me was to not buy any of those portable spring compressors. Just waiting for him to send his address. Thanks guys

Todd is a well respected member,and I mean him no disrespect,,,,,,,,,but in your location there are several machine shops that could give you a good squeeze,,,,,,and your springs too!

Spintron has revealed something not believed possible decades ago: "these 600 lb. spring are permitting the parts to separate at several different RPM levels". Right - not just float at peak RPM.
Assuming safe break-in: too little spring is more dangerous than too much. If you gap the parts, they will break.

Dwayne and Todd and friends. Dwayne spec'd the cam, so I feel confident Todd will get me on the right track with this spring ordeal. Incompetence in many shops and businesses around here is over the top. Doesn't matter what kind of business it is, some people just don't give a sh!t no more and its getting worse.

Yes, I have a friend that feels I should run more spring pressure. Not that it matters, but he is a Hemi guy, Jim Keys wrench who maintains Jims 68 Hemi cuda super stock car. He has his own factory stock car he runs as well. He runs much more spring pressure on his SFT cams and they live. I just do not want to flatten a cam in this engine.

You have who you need and one phone call gets them delivered to your door!

Does he have a good quality spring tester?

It’s really quite simple.
There is either a valvetrain control problem...... or there isn’t.

If there is, you need more spring load, or a different spring altogether....... or lower the engines operating range so you’re not running the motor in the range where the loss of control is occurring.
If there isn’t a control problem, you have other issues(or the combo just doesn’t work that well).

Obviously, the best way to determine exactly what’s going on is to dyno the motor.
That answers (at least) two questions.
It will show whether or not there is a valvetrain control issue that’s keeping the motor from realizing it’s potential...... and whether or not it makes enough power to achieve the desired goal as is....... or if more power is needed to get there.

I’ve tested many motors........ after the owners had spent thousands and thousands of dollars trying to get their car to run a number that the motor didn’t make enough power to achieve.
In most of those cases........ the car was going as quick as it “should”.

Sometimes a dyno run will show a narrow band of small spikes at an RPM where nothing should be happening. That's what VT harmonics or weak springs will do.
This also happens with pushrod flex, IDK how to distinguish between them. The usual rule is "If you don't have the biggest pushrods that fit, get them".

I put .116" wall pushrods in it. When I ordered them from Manton the gentleman told me everything flexes no matter how big or thick they are. You just want to keep the flex within reasonable control.

Dwayne, my thinking is, you know the cam and Todd knows the springs. So I figure I have the best two guys on this possible problem. As soon as the weather turns here, I will box up 4 springs and send them to Todd for inspection.

DON,T do just four, send them all
You know Murphy loves messing with us hot rodders and drag racer, don't you
One bad spark plug wire can drive you CRAZY

Send 'em all. Dwayne checked a set of mine after a problematic dyno session years ago and found a number of the intake springs had lost a lot of pressure during the tests.

Do you know the advertised specs for your springs?

No, I can only tell you the pressures as they are set up. Dwayne suggested only checking 4 springs, so I figure 2 pistons at TDC would make it easy to do. To pull all springs the heads need to come off.

I've seen guys remove all 16 springs on the motor by using clothe pins or additional valve seals on them

Buy a set of 16 of the soft checking springs and simply swap the real springs out for the checking springs while they're off getting tested. Be aware you need to shop around a bit cuz some of the parts vendors ask as much for 2 springs as others might for a set of 8.

Or, if Dwayne suggested only needing to send four, pick 2 intakes & 2 exhausts (which I suspect was your plan) to be able to see if there's a pattern in load degradation between the two sides.

So, what pressures & heights are (were?) the springs set up for?

Install height per Todd are 1.930 with 145# on the seat and 410# open. Coil binds at 1.200.

I have been really thinking about this valve spring thing and not enough compression for the combo issue. I'm thinking it may be better to pull the heads and have all the springs checked. While they are off I will get them shaved .045" off and install new thinner Cometics(.045)/4.410 gaskets. This should bump the compression in a more desirable area for the heads and the cam. I have plenty of v to head clearance and would put me in the 12.5:1 area. No more 100% pump gas, but that's fine as I can't stand the smell out the pipes anyway. Race fuel smells much better. If the springs are bad I can replace with a known brand like Pac for instance. I may not need to pull the convertor and have it loosened. I think its worth a try.

If you’re good with buying the gas....... go for it.

Yeah I really don't mind. I'm already buying and mixing race fuel anyway. The VP race fuel concentrate that autozone sells in the quart cans works pretty well for longer trips as well. I really think the compression boost will bring the combo together. If the vert needs loosen then i'll get that next year. Like Lenny said, if you loosen the vert now, you might find it too loose after the engine tweaking. I'm confident the spring check and compression boost is the key.

Weighed one? Over or under 150 grams?

I have no idea what they weight, but they do have Titanium retainers. I wont be pulling this apart for a couple weeks yet.

Dual spring with flat damper between the inner and outer coils? If so, more likely to chew up the ti retainers.

I don't recall that. Twin spring with TI retainer. No damper as I recall.

My favorite solid flat-tappet spring for .600"+/- lift was the Lunati 73121 (no idea who the manufacturer is, or if the same spring is offered by other companies). Some were made as dual springs w/dampers, others were dual springs w/o dampers (interference fit), but the part # was always the same. I had some of both style, but preferred the no-damper style since they didn't chew up the ti retainers I liked to use.

1.540 Outer spring OD
1.140 Outer spring ID
.860 Inner spring ID (no damper version)
.794 Inner spring ID (w/ damper version)

Advertised pressures:
Closed - 142# at 1.940
Open - 402# at 1.250
Rate - 377 #/in
Coil bind - 1.089

The other thing I liked about them was they're light: 126 g (no-damper version) vs 153 g for COMP 928/930 dual w/ damper. Even the w/damper version was still about 20 grams lighter than the 928/930.

I don't have any more new sets because I sold off my spares when I switched to a solid roller. If you ordered them new today, I suspect they'd be the w/damper version, based upon the current product description.