Budget bracket duster build?

Looking for advice for building a duster bracket car. My goals are to run 10.0s or close, must be easy to work on. I have a 70 Duster body an iron headed 440 and 727 trans 4.56 8 3/4. With that driveline my 3700lb belvedere ran a best of 10.88 and avg 11.0. I plan on running ladder bars and coil over shocks. What is best back half car or mini tub? For the front end I want to remove at least inner fenders or removable front clip? Any other advise? Thanks Mike

Before you build, look on the net --I can find several of those examples out there , in a rainbow of colors and options.. save yourself a ton of $$

True but I have so many parts. Why buy someone else and not know what it is?

Good eye, you can kinda tell for the most part ..selling parts is much easier than whole car ..

Just my advice , find right car ..be racing in a few weeks !

https://racine.craigslist.org/cto/d/union-grove-74-plymouth-duster-bracket/6844189182.html

Thanks for taking the time to answer me. I have at least 2 years before I could start racing. My youngest will be out of the house ,hopefully I will have more time to race. I guess I will build it as light as possible. And go from there.

bigdads got the right idea. buy one already done its much cheaper than starting with a rust bucket from scratch. paint can be changed, parts can be bolted on.

Yes I know. But body is rust-free from North Dakota. It was a /6 3on the tree car no title. Not worth much besides a race car. Thanks again I will figure it out

There are several Duster threads on here including mine. I thought I'd get mine done in a few months but once I got into it I found a lot of stuff that needed to be changed. These projects take a long time unless you have all of the tools, parts, money, time, etc. on hand and ready to go.

it ALWAYS takes more time than a guy figures. my buddy is fond of saying : "there is no such thing as a 1/2hr job. just figure 3-4 times longer than it SHOULD take, and you'll be sorta close".

It's always less expensive to buy a done car than build one. Price out a proper cage, for example.
There's a lot of money to be spent also on suspension, light parts, electronics, etc for a 10.0 car, plus the time.
Depending on how many of your parts you want to use, you might even find a decent roller for not much $$$.
Kinda hate to see a rust-free body cut up, just get a title for it and someone can build a nice car out of it.
Look around, post some photos of what you find, and the guys here can point out the good & bad.

I appreciate the advise. I know everything takes longer and costs more than I plan. I have built a couple of street/strip cars in the last 32 years. I bought this body to make a race car. I have always wanted a race car. Not a compromised street car. I know it's not what most guys do when they get older. So this is my retirement dream.

Just build the car first.
Do it the way you want it....... put stuff in it that’s absolutely suitable for the ET target.
Obviously, lighter is better.

In the grand scheme of things, the motor is usually the quickest/easiest part of the project.
600-625hp is enough to get down into the low tens @3000-3200lbs.

Look for one already done, trust me. I’ve done it both ways and it’s way cheaper starting out with one done. I paid 7500.00 for my black Duster with a well built Dana, CRT 727, good convertor, 11 second small block with Edelbrock heads and Victor intake, 7al3 ignition, 8.50 legal cage, and much more. Then while my son raced I made it how I wanted it each winter. Try building one for double that with those parts.

If your absolutely positive your going to be happy with going no quicker than 10.00 in the 1/4 at or below 135.00 MPH and no quicker than 6.39 ET in the 1/8 mile than a 5 point NHRA legal roll bar will do fine
If not happy with those numbers then have it back half with a cage at the same time your doing the coil over conversion
I built a 1971 Duster 6 cylinder three speed car into a BB street racer that I wanted to go into L.A. CA and race the black guys in Compton and Watts on the street for money, unfortunately (maybe fortunately) I ended up having to deal with a health issue before getting the car done
I had a legal chrome moly six point roll bar installed along with a coil over rear suspension using 15.5 inch extended long single adjustable Strange coil overs with 200 LB. springs , I changed them later to a set of double adjustable with 130 Lb. springs
I did not try to build it lightweight due to not wanting any one to think it might be half fast
I built a pump gas 511 C.I. 400 block stroker motor with a set of mildly ported big valve 906 iron heads that made 9.25 to 1 compression ratio, I wouldn't do that now
Buy a new set of decent aluminum heads like the Trick flow 240 or 270 heads and shoot for 10.0 to 11.0 to 1 compression ratio :thumbs
I used a low deck six pack set up on that motor along with a solid roller camshaft and a cheap set of CAT brand 1.6 ratio aluminum roller rockers that went bad right away due to using the wrong shafts
I dyno tested that motor in 2003 and it made 612 HP at 5500 RPM along with 544 Ft. Lbs. torque at 4500 RPM in Ontario, CA on a DTS engine dyno on CA 91 octane pump swill
I was hoping to make between 550 and 560 HP and didn't have any goals for torque
I got the car running in the summer of 2005 after moving up here to Oregon, I ran the car at our local 1/8 mile track in late August and then in early October I ran it at Woodburn, OR which is a 1/4 mile. It ran 7.0 in the 1/8 mile at 93.MPH, it exceeded my hopes in the 1/4 mile by running 10.69 at 124.+ MPH cork up with the air cleaner on The car weighed right at 3450 Lbs. with me in it with two 1973 Duster front bucket seats, extra thick carpet with extra padding stock heater and a decent AM/FM cassette radio.
It did have a fibreglas race weight hood with a 1968 hemi type scoop and fibreglas front bumper. I moved the motor back around 2.0 inches and I had the rear wheel wells lengthen 5.0 inches, three inches to the front and two to the rear along with full tubs to the stock inner sub frames. I also moved the rear end forward one inch I weighed it with me in it and it has right at 50.5% on the front tires with 49.5 % on the rear tires
On your deal I would build it as light as possible due to you wanting to race it at the track only
I ended up changing a bunch of parts on the car to make it go quicker and faster in the next ten years
It ran a best of 9.993 at 134.7 MPH with the air cleaner and 3.0 inch exhaust on and hook up
Duster flat rock
Good luck on your deal, build it the way you want it and have fun

THE BIGGEST MISTAKE YOU MADE WAS ASKING PEOPLE HERE WHAT TO DO....LOL

Do what YOU want, Of course its cheaper to buy a car done, but maybe you want to tinker and spend time in your garage building the car. Maybe you want the satisfaction of saying it built this myself, whatever the case...So people like to just race and not spend time building the car.

Best bang for the buck if you want a 10.0 car...Build it as light as you can, put a mild BB in it or a junkyard Gen3 if you can get one cheap. If you have a BB already, you can build a 10.00 car pretty easy and it will be reliable. Put a good trans, and rear in it, they will last you forever.

Good luck in your build !

I get the impression that you are well aware of the benefits of buying something already done, but would prefer a project. Nothing wrong with that. In that case, I think your current drivetrain should be fine ,but I dont know about 10.o's. May need to add a set of trickflow heads to bump up the power. Have fun with it.

Thanks Cab, I don't think I can get an NHRA license so 10.0 will be it. Right now I'm trying to decide to back-half car or mini-tub with ladder bars. Not sure what size slick but I have 8&10 inch rims. I don't want to worry about car hooking but don't want overkill either.

Yes lighter the better. I was on FABO looking what some a bodies weigh. It looks like a lot of them are around 3000lb for a more race setup. I'm thinking that shouldn't be to hard to hit.

MY car is mini tub with ladder bars. Its a dart. It can fit a tru 10.5 and I run a 275 on a 12" rim. It weighs 3000 with me in it, Its got a full stock K frame and front suspension . Glass hood, trunk, doors, bumpers. Proglass lexan. Its a t400, BB, 9 inch rear.


A duster mini tubbed will fit a 10.5 W that's plenty of tire. Concentrate on cutting off all the hitchikers, anything not needed get rid of it !

have my P-BODY for sale pretty cheap..its about 1800#.. was 2400#
race weight SB and me at the line.. you can put a BB in it with
minor changes( I was gonna)

An 8 3/4 will live, but I'd opt for a Dana personally that way you wouldn't have to worry about breaking it. We ran a 29.5x11.5 on the mini tub duster. I run 31x14 on my back half ladder bar car, but could go alot wider if needed. As long as the rear frame rails are good a mini tub would be okay for what your trying to do. Putting a BB in an A body and easy to work on is not simplest. We have the inner fenders removed on my car and snout bars going from the cage to the frame tying in the shock tower. Run TTI headers, they fit nice, but is nice in some spots. Before we caged it we ran fenderwell headers and they were SO much easier to work with but limited you on the front tire size. As far as weight my 2 dusters are

1975 back half ladder bar, dana 60 440 with alum heads, intake, full cage, only fiberglass is bumpers - 2950 lbs
1973 mini tubed dana 60 360 alum heads, all steel - 3040lbs

both cars retain factory dash, interior panels and have carpet on the floor.

My B-body has the engine a lot further forward than a Duster. Ho0ks great with 10.5s, ladder bars and stock frame rails ( been 1.240). You existing drive train could net you 10.30s at 3000lbs. A little hop up to the existing engine and a careful weight saving program will get you there. Start cutting. Then start shopping . Lots of good used parts if you stay on it. Make a list and be ready to pounce when you find the right item. I second the Dana. If your 8 3/4 has 35 spine axles they may have enough spline to cut down and fit in the Dana. You'd be surprised how cheap you can build if you plan early and take your time to locate cheap parts. With a 2 year window you should have no issue.
Doug

Thanks Guys. I'm thinking ladder bars good double adj shocks and mini tub. Since this will be a race only car I plan to remove anything not needed dash , glass, gut doors etc. I may try and sell doors and fenders and replace with fiberglass. Not sure about front suspension/steering yet. A rack and coilovers would be nice but not sure if worth it. Your right DVW I've been watching for stuff I will need and found a couple good deals on a shifter and fuel cell.

I run a Duster, and any advise I have, is generally not budget friendly, but,,,,its all in the name of making it easier to work on.

I run a BBM in mine with 4.56 gears, but with a Dana and a 33" tall tire....This car is 2700lbs and would torch an 8-3/4....Heck I already torched one Dana....Put a Dana or a 9" in it....Or even neater idea, a Winters quick change if fits and its a streeter.. You will need somthing to hold up. 10.0's is under what I would use an 8-3/4 for.

Ladder bars I like, easy to work on and easy to tune. Use a good set of double adjustable coil overs like Viking and you are good.

Front end, I like you plan, but one item I can't live without for ease of working on the car is a MagnumForce front end.....or the RMS version.....No torsion bars, no steering linkage to go thru the pan, no header clearance issues....and its light! I know, there goes the budget, but the ability to work on the car is 100% more friendly....Both of my cars have these on them.

I like Dragula’s way of thinking.... I like “easy”, and to increase “easy”, tube K/rack steering/coil over shocks sure frees up a ton of space for go fast parts!

Starting a racecar from scratch I’d go 9” derivative or S60..... this is coming from a guy that had 8.75 rears in 2 cars that Ended up with Danas.

Fiberglass doors and fenders...... way too much BS for what your trying to do imho.

In my p-body I run a alum center 8-3/4.. its strong and light but when
I built my Rampage I put a 9" in it.. the cost of the alum center unit
now days isnt worth the price.. I went that direction to make the
car light.. its a all moly 4-link with struts in the front.. I'm thinking about
putting it back on the street but I have to buy another shadow so I
can get a Vin from it.. I have the title but I tossed the dash when I
built the car

I like the mini tub, ladderbar combo, combined with a coilover shock and rack combo up front to provide the extra room for working on the motor. If i ever build another chassis, i would look into a Mustang 2 style front end, since they are available from a number of sources, and universal fit. My other option would be a strut front from Strange. These options might sound spendy till you add up the cost of going through the stock front end, and adding disc brakes, plus converting to a 4.5 bolt circle up front. And every last extra $$ spent on the strut upgrade would most likely show up in resale value. A mild steel cage would accommodate the strut or M2 style front, and allow you to modify the firewall for some engine setback which will help consistancy. Oil pan options are much better too. I would put the 440 block up for sale and start with a 400 based 512 cube combo. The wider header options may save $$ over what a stock front would require, so figure that in when calculating the front suspension and cage cost.
Have the pistons cut for 2.25 /1.81 valve sizes and deep enough to accommodate a 440-1 head cut to 60 cc, and equiped with a BIG roller cam in mind. That way you can start with whatever budget allows for heads, but can upgrade to a head capable of 9.0s without having to change the shortblock.

If you are happy running low 10’s follow some of the suggestions on getting the front end upgrades, aim for 2800 pounds or less, caltracs or ladderbar, and a stock crank 360 with TrickFlow heads will get you there. Build it into a 408 and easy 9’s are in your future. You will love working on the small block compaired to a big block.

I will add a little more to that Magnum front end.....With the fenderwell headers, the diaper comes right off, and the pan can be removed as well with lifting the front of the engine a little. Headers go right on or off, and plugs are easy to get at. Only thing I still hate are the top two trans bolts....

I have a two piece removable trans tunnel

When I added the CSR shield to my car I was forced to knock some holes in the firewall to get to the bell housing bolts. I wish I did that 24 years ago when I got the car.

I don't think Aftermarket front suspension and budget are in the same sentence. Making the tunnel big is never a bad thing. Trim the K frame. This makes pulling the pan and the motor far easier. I'd run a motor plate. Simple and gains clearance. removing the inner fenders gives more access if snout bars are installed in the correct location. Coil overs can replace the torsion bars in the stock location. But I've seen a few sets of custom headers that actually come off pretty easy with the stock stuff.
Doug

Thanks for all the replies. This is a retirement dream I have at least 3 years till then. But this gives me something to look forward to. Back in my 20's a buddy and I built a back half duster but never ran it much between work and family. I have always wanted to chase points at my local track just to see how good I could do. So I bought this body 12 years ago and figure I better start something or I will be 65 before I have it done. I'm going with mini tub ladder bars and dbl adjust shocks on rear. Not sure on front I have a old mustang 2 front end, buying a new front end or just coil overs like DVW said. My goal is consistency and easy as can be to work on. Going to start with my old 440 driveline and see how I do. I do have a couple other 400 blocks if I really want to get serious. I never really messed with small blocks but I can see where they would be easier and lighter, but will stick with BB. Thanks for ideas and support

You should at least read the thread on my Duster build. I've been working on mine for 2 years now and it will probably be another 6 months before it is running. I've tried a bunch of different things in my build and have changed course a few times. I started off with a motor plate but then decided to go with a spool mount setup. There is no perfect solution, each approach has some good and bad. You have to figure out what the goal is before you'll get very far. If you want a simple bracket racer that is easy to work on then that is different than a hard core race car which is a lot different than a street car. If you know what you're building then it is possible to get the project finished. If you aren't sure what you're building then you'll either never finish or never start.

You are right Andy. I have followed your build very interesting for sure. I have a stock 74 charger street car a 64 Belvedere street strip car now. So this build would be a basic bracket car no frills no fancy paint to worry about.

A basic bracket car should be a fairly easy build as long as you know exactly how fast you want to go and don't change the goal. Cars built from the ground up for a specific purpose usually go together fairly well. It is the guys who start off with 10 second cars that then want to run 9's that have the problem since a bunch of stuff needs to get cut out and redone. If you are going to run 9's then list out all of the stuff required by the rule book and put it all in the car from day one. The build that Forest is doing would be a good one to follow if you're planning on running 9's.

No 9s for me. I can't get NHRA liscence

Why not?
Are you aware that NHRA now allows you to self certified on the medical exam like the FAA is doing now on some pilot medical exams

No I was not. I haven't been an NHRA member for awhile. What does self certify entail?

Filling out the NHRA forms and doing the required drivers test in the car at the track with the required signature from the other drivers that witness your testing and runs
I'm a commercial pilot who has not flown in over 13 yrs now and I was surprised that NHRA and the FAA had loosen up the medical exam requirements several years back
You can call your local NHRA tech director to verify this information on when the medical will be required, it is not require for S/P, S/G and maybe S/C now

I knew about making passes in the car and getting chassis certified. I just thought you had to do medical like CDL. I still don't have plans for 9's want to keep it as cheap and simple as possible.

Are you going to try and go rounds or are you just going to play with the car? If you want to go rounds then you'll need to put a bunch of stuff into the car to make it reliable and consistent.

You need about 1 hp for 5 pounds to run 10.00 so that should be your goal. If the car will weigh 3000 lbs with you in it then you'll need 600 hp. If 10.0 is your goal then you can figure out how much power based on the weight. Once you know how quick you'll go you can figure out the MPH at the stripe. If you are running 10.0 then you'll most likely be around 135 mph. Once you know the MPH you can figure out engine speed and rear gear and tire size. As you work your way thru the numbers the car design starts to come into focus.

It shouldn't be very difficult to build a 3000 lb Duster on a budget. If you are going to run low 10's then you only need a 5 point roll bar so you can skip the full cage setup. If the car is 3000 lbs with decent weight distribution you won't need killer tires out back. The big tires add a lot of cost for body work since the fenders need to be reworked. Are you doing the body work and chassis work yourself or hiring it out? If you are hiring it out then you'll want to reduce the amount of work needed.

Not much reason to worry about the engine since almost any combination of good heads and decent compression will net 600 hp but you do need to figure out all of the little stuff like alternator, water pump, radiator, etc. If you have a generator then you can skip the alternator but that can be a hassle. If you need to run an alternator then the motor plate becomes a hassle. So there are lots of little decisions like that which you need to think over. It really just gets down to what you want the car to do. When you take it to the track do you want to hang out with friends and make a pass or two or do you want to spend all day in the lanes trying to win the race? If you want to win races then the car needs to be set up to help you go rounds.

Some of you guys are over-thinking this racing game. Keep it simple and on a budget and go have FUN. My kids stock cast crank runs 6.54 at 3200 pounds (10.20's-10.30's) and with an alternator, alcohol fuel, (165.00 for 54 gallons) he charges the battery once a month because cooling isn't needed at all in the pits. Frame connectors, caltracks, stock wheel-wells, 4.10 gears 8 3/4 rearend, 727 transmission, 750 alcohol carb done by APD, 11-1 comp, small 620 lift roller cam, Edelbrock heads and Victor intake I ported, 1 7/8 Hedmen headers, and 6 point cage, and the only fiberglass is a heavy 6 pak hood. Heck it still has the rear seat and a stock passenger side bucket seat (race seat for driver. Don't let guys BS you and say about all the EXTRA work running alcohol. Pull the seats on his car, fiberglass bumpers, aluminum bumper brackets and he's 10's. Don't over-think it.

This is not mine but kinda shows you how cheap it can be done. More pictures on the link.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/MoparDragRacing/



1971 Duster Street/Strip Roller for trade
$5,500
23061
Looking to trade for 68-72 B Body or 67-72 Dart roller with title.. 1971 Plymouth Duster, No motor or trans. Clean and clear title in my name. Was on the street a month ago pulled motor to freshen and decided to find something with a backseat for kids. Car is Mini Tubbed with narrowed 8 3/4, A.R.T Ladder bars and Strange Single Adjustable coilovers. (Could still go back to leaf springs, Inboard boxes and stock frames rails still in place.) 8 point Roll bar and frame connectors. 8 3/4 has 4.10s and spool. Drum brakes in rear, Wilwood disc in front, aluminum manual master cylinder with line lock. Brand new Pro Stars and tires. 15x10 with 275/60 ET street. Will hold a 12in wheel. 10 Gal. Fuel cell, Holley blue pump, 1/2 aluminum fuel line and 3/8 aluminum return ran. Body is in good shape, painted with Eastwood satin black, does have a patch in Right rear lower quarter and little filler, and driver floor pan been replaced. Nice AAR fiberglass 6 pack hood. Interior could use some TLC, factory panels, carpet etc. car comes with factory bench seat, no heater box. Car had small block and 904 trans. Will come with some hooker headers, radiator and drive shaft. All lights and wiper work. Looking to trade for roller in same shape to drop my motor and trans in. Or will sale for $5500 any questions pm me.



Untitled by John Cadamore, on Flickr

Untitled by John Cadamore, on Flickr

Untitled by John Cadamore, on Flickr


Untitled by John Cadamore, on Flickr

I agree with Pitts.. dont over think it. the 2 things I did was to make my
car lighter and I ran E-85.. around here I could buy it at most of the
stations around here so it was cheap and easy to get.. I ended up
running 8.90s with a SB.. 9.5 is when you had to have the NHRA cert
from a doctor.. I played that game with the NHRA but I had some other
medical issues also so I couldnt get a license the last time

I want to have fun and go rounds. 10.0 isn't a must have but everyone always wants to go as fast as possible. I have my 64 for messing around. I have the complete drive line that I had in 64 radiator, alt, pulleys,etc from 64 it ran 11 teens @3700lb. with a best of 10.88. I built a maxwedge cloneish. With new radiator alt, pulleys, distributor, ignition, motor with crossram new convertor, trans. The biggest things are chassis, brakes, suspension, roll bar. I'm planning on doing work myself with help from a couple buddies. Body and paint are not a big priority. Most likely flat black or something like single stage enamel. Pittsburghracer that duster looks like a hell of a deal. If I was wanting to go racing now that would be what I would be looking for. I'm still sorting out the 64 and that motor build was in 2016 so I don't do anything to fast. I'm hoping life will slow down in a few years. If not my kids will have a bunch of stuff to sell

Mr. P I agree with you lighter is better faster and easier on parts. The couple of cars I have raced were always a compromise between race car and street car. I like the idea of E85. It is available here, but I'm a ways away from deciding that.

I have always been a chassis guy and didnt bother a lot about making
big power.. I would tell you to make your ladder bars a bit longer longer
than the standard kit ones.. I went both ways on my stuff.. the 4-link
is the way to go.. way more adjust ability to them

Thanks

E85 or not is a good thing to think about. Personally I wouldn't go that way but perhaps it would work for you. If it was my car I'd set the engine up to run pump gas and then I'd use a Holley Sniper on there. The Sniper will tune itself for changes in elevation or weather so that is one less thing for you to worry about in the pits. Pump gas is cheap and easy to find and the O2 sensor will last a long time. If the car weighs 3000 lbs you only need 600 hp to run low 10's and that is easy to do with a pump gas big block. A set of Trick Flow heads and a mild street roller cam should get you into the 600 range with a Trick Flow intake and a 800 cfm Sniper. That should be a very solid and reliable combo that could go rounds for a lot of races. The Sniper also gives you a built in data logger which is nice.

My 2 cents. Make the car easy to work on, and low maintance. Build it so it can hot lap if you have to.

A car that repeats and prints time slips is a lot easier to win with than one that has wild ET swings because of a little DA change or some track starting line inconsistency

Go to your local track and get involved with what ever you have that runs, and get ideas for what you really want to build.

The definition of bracket racing people that spend a whole bunch of money to make junk Go real fast and then slow it down so they don't go too fast ... not sure I quite understand the concept

Most of us don’t play that game

Well sir some of us don't want to shove a lit JATO rocket into our butt and fly to the finish line while torching our wallet, we prefer a gentlemans game of chess at a 125+mph

You'd love watching racing over here then ....thats mostly all we do, brkts and 8 sec cars running SG, etc.

I know EFI is the future I like the data logging part. But I'm going to start with what I know. Having a car that can repeat is the goal. When I take the 64 to track the ET varies a lot. I know with more runs and testing I could get it better. That car is a compromise this will be track only car. The ET goal isn't top priority going rounds is more important. The ET will come. I know bracket racing doesn't make sense to a lot of people, but I want to give it a shot. I have be going to race tracks all my life but never tried seriously this is my chance. Thanks again

I started racing at a track in SO CA in 1964 when class racing was the only choice at Mickey Thompson Fontana Drag City
I remember when bracket racing started a little later and thought that was a bunch of bunk
I didn't do any more at the track racing until around 1972 and not many of the tracks in SO CA had a regular schedule class racing races, but they all had regular bracket races every weekend and some of them race during the week also
My message is if I didn't learn to bracket race I could only race class 5 or 6 times a year
We all get to make choices in life, my choices on drag racing are now limited by the market place