Moparts

Vanke Intake modifications

Posted By: Transman

Vanke Intake modifications - 02/27/19 07:03 AM

Looking for a print for these mods.

Anyone have them?

Also, any info out there on the jetting packages for same?
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 02/27/19 03:26 PM

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/upload2/5671605-Vankemod.jpg

I don't have any jetting recommendations. I have one here, but I haven't built the motor yet.

Attached picture vanke mod.jpg
Posted By: polyspheric

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 02/27/19 04:10 PM

Can't answer your request, but the manifold is an answer to "what can I do for more peak power, if I'm limited to the original factory casting?".
I would expect weird mixture distribution, less stable idle, more pump shot needed.
Posted By: rickseeman

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 02/27/19 04:37 PM

I believe there is an old Direct Connection publication on jetting for those. (Possibly a print also.) Of course it will matter if you are using normal street hemi carbs or the 4345S/4346S that came on them. If you go look at a real one you can draw your own print. It is simple machining and welding a dam in. Make sure it's a real one you're looking at not one of those god awful jobs that some hack did.
Posted By: lewtot184

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 02/27/19 05:56 PM

the only info I have is to use the big cheater carbs, without jet changes, in an opened up intake. I think I would be possible to duplicate the cheater carbs with edelbrock 1407's. if this is a driver there will be a noticeable decrease in torque below 4000rpm.
Posted By: Transman

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 02/27/19 06:24 PM

Thanks for the link with the print. Interestingly, unless I am looking at the print incorrectly, there is a radius cut on the secondary portion of the rear carb where the print shows a straight wall. Every one of these manifolds I have seen as of late has this radius.

I understand the potential effect on torque, but being a manual, stroker with headers should make up for any increase in plenum volume. If we end up with one of these plus the standard manifold I would entertain doing an A-B test on the dyno to see total impact.

We have two sets of carbs so that shouldn’t take too long to test.

Thanks for all the contributors to the post.
Posted By: lewtot184

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 02/27/19 07:05 PM

stroker/manual; i'd definitely try bigger than stock carbs.
Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 02/27/19 07:32 PM

The factory carb mod kit for the Vanke intake was P2836137.

Attached picture P2836137.jpg
Posted By: Hemi_Joel

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 02/27/19 08:40 PM

From experience I can tell you, a stroker motor cures any deficiencies in low-end or idle that may have been caused by a Vanke intake modification. My 474 Hemi with a Vanke intake torques out like a locomotive and pulls hard over 7000 RPM. that's not to say that there aren't better choices for an intake, like the stage 5, but if you need to use the stock casting, the Vanke mod is a good start
Posted By: polyspheric

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 02/27/19 09:31 PM

Partially removing the divider wall makes each bank draw from both left & right sides of both carburetors (the reverse of why 180° manifolds are used). Vacuum signal is reduced, not with this design but any wall height reduction.
Since the manifold itself does not have equal air flow to each port (unavoidable with dual-plane manifolds - read some of Vizard's tests showing as much as 50 CFM difference between high and low) even the original fuel distribution is now gone. The WOT can be made closer by stagger jetting, front-rear bias, HSAB experiments, but not the A:F balance to each cylinder.
Posted By: polyspheric

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 02/27/19 09:42 PM

Thanks, John - I suspect a larger photo would show asymmetrical booster venturi notches biasing emulsion discharge off center?
Posted By: Transman

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 02/28/19 06:44 AM

Booster throats are all equal in size. No sniveys or notches in any of them.
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 02/28/19 04:31 PM

Originally Posted By lewtot184
stroker/manual; i'd definitely try bigger than stock carbs.

iagree The Vanke manifold I have is going on a mild 540" street motor w/ a 4 speed behind it. Have an older pair of Carter comp 750s for it.
Posted By: polyspheric

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 02/28/19 05:09 PM

Why are they being replaced?
Posted By: second 70

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 02/28/19 06:20 PM

Here is a picture of the KB marine intake. The mods are similar to the Vanke but have the bases farther apart so you can use Holleys.

Attached picture 1394C74F-A2E6-4224-826E-54C3A0A8A84A.jpeg
Attached picture 0E0DC55C-641D-4CFB-863B-56D31DDE0177.jpeg
Attached picture 0F4CFA3A-F4B8-4FCF-B66C-20CE613D138D.jpeg
Posted By: rickseeman

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 02/28/19 06:33 PM

Yes, that is a copy of the old KB "Marine" intake for Holleys and they came modded like the Vanke.
Posted By: hemicar1971

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 02/28/19 08:35 PM

I use to have some Dyno pull information from years ago and will see if I can dig them up but never went that way so likely it went into garbage. Also believe NHOA had put in their News Letter in the 80s the jetting used when going from a stock intake to a modified Vank intake and I believe it was on a stock motor. This is what I can remember from the dyno test on intakes. Gain from stock to Vank was around 40 HP and then using the Stage V intake it gained about 75 HP. I can not remember what changes were used for carbs and even how much if any modifications the Hemi Motor had.
Posted By: polyspheric

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 03/01/19 12:39 AM

That's some precision machining there, Bubba.
There's actual math for "how much less does an orifice flow if the entry is a sharp-enough-to-shave-with edge?", and it's not good.
Posted By: rickseeman

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 03/01/19 06:11 AM

OT but FYI I had a pair of Holleys for the KB Marine intake once. In case anybody is wondering I believe the numbers are 4127/4128. Mine were built by Bauman I believe, based on the handwriting. They were made from 3116 carbs. I wish I would have put that intake and carbs on something and drove it. Someone later told me not to use staged linkage with those. Have both primaries open together. I asked KB once how many of those intakes he made. He said he didn't remember for sure, maybe 75. Just passing on the info.
Posted By: quickd100

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 03/01/19 12:46 PM

Originally Posted By polyspheric
That's some precision machining there, Bubba.
There's actual math for "how much less does an orifice flow if the entry is a sharp-enough-to-shave-with edge?", and it's not good.


I was looking at the picture and also thinking why didn't they radius and blend it.
Posted By: polyspheric

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 03/01/19 05:18 PM

An asymmetrical radius & blend to those entries and barriers can be made to clean up cylinder-to-cylinder distribution problems.
Shops: do it once on your flow bench, offer it as a useful service for that manifold. Make a video of the mods, sell it as a CD on Racing Junk, Amazon, eBay.
Posted By: 1118Steve

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 03/02/19 04:52 AM

We ran several of these in the old days. They came on the RO/WO cars. Dick Landy also did those mods.

The only other option for the Street Hemi SS cars at the time was the Rat Roaster, which was a little better, but not much. We found the Vanke/Landy intake was about a half a tenth off from the RR. The Vanke intake took a lot away from the bottom end, but it picked up quite a bit on the big end.

As I recall, the jetting was not all that different from the stocker. A bit, but certainly not drastic.
Posted By: 69 F5 R/T

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 03/21/19 02:57 PM

Would be really helpful/ interesting to see posted jetting and metering for the Vanke on a 426. Been reading for a while and searching around and the .101 with staggered .083 jets seems to be the common theme.

Interesting that those same jets come on factory 66 Hemi's, albeit a different idle circuit.
Posted By: 1118Steve

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 03/21/19 03:45 PM

Whenever we raced them, we just started with stock jetting....and went from there. I probably have this stuff written down somewhere.....
Posted By: Transman

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 03/21/19 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by 1118Steve
Whenever we raced them, we just started with stock jetting....and went from there. I probably have this stuff written down somewhere.....



Well this engine goes on the dyno in about a month - I would be interested in what info you have - in return I’ll let you know how close your package is to max.
Posted By: 69 F5 R/T

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 03/21/19 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by Transman
Originally Posted by 1118Steve
Whenever we raced them, we just started with stock jetting....and went from there. I probably have this stuff written down somewhere.....



Well this engine goes on the dyno in about a month - I would be interested in what info you have - in return I’ll let you know how close your package is to max.



Interesting timing, as we were going to dyno my brothers 426 with Vanke in a cpl weeks, but have put it off until we can get a better idea of what we will at least need to set us up for success.

Already tracked down and purchased 2 strip kits for the AFB's to make sure we have a good mix of tunability. : )
Posted By: polyspheric

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 03/21/19 07:37 PM

One jetting problem: the cylinder to cylinder and bank to bank distribution is not constant throughout the RPM range, or throttle position (vacuum) range. The engine will still be knock limited by its hottest leanest cylinder, but which one?
Posted By: Transman

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 03/22/19 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by 69 F5 R/T
Originally Posted by Transman
Originally Posted by 1118Steve
Whenever we raced them, we just started with stock jetting....and went from there. I probably have this stuff written down somewhere.....



Well this engine goes on the dyno in about a month - I would be interested in what info you have - in return I’ll let you know how close your package is to max.



Interesting timing, as we were going to dyno my brothers 426 with Vanke in a cpl weeks, but have put it off until we can get a better idea of what we will at least need to set us up for success.

Already tracked down and purchased 2 strip kits for the AFB's to make sure we have a good mix of tunability. : )


I think I am ready in regards to having enough jets, metering rods and even some boosters. And of course some spare air horn to main body and booster gaskets.
Posted By: 69 F5 R/T

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 03/22/19 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by polyspheric
One jetting problem: the cylinder to cylinder and bank to bank distribution is not constant throughout the RPM range, or throttle position (vacuum) range. The engine will still be knock limited by its hottest leanest cylinder, but which one?


Possibly a question that could only be answered by someone who's "been there and done that".

If it were an issue of major concern though, you would see a pattern of burnt down Vanke mtrs like a plague on the forums and no one would be considering running them any more ; )

To bad no one has one of the original Mopar upgrade kits laying around. Would be nice to see the individual parts break down of all the pieces they supplied for said modifications : )
Posted By: 1DGEMAN

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 03/22/19 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Transman
Originally Posted by 1118Steve
Whenever we raced them, we just started with stock jetting....and went from there. I probably have this stuff written down somewhere.....



Well this engine goes on the dyno in about a month - I would be interested in what info you have - in return I’ll let you know how close your package is to max.



I believe Bob Mazzolini runs this manifold on his NHRA Stocker. You might give his shop a call.
Posted By: Hemi_Joel

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 03/22/19 06:01 PM

this info is from an old magazine article about the Vanke intake.
I used this as a starting point with my sock 625 cfm carbs and vanke modded intake, and it worked pretty good.

The jetting Vanke used was (probably with open headers);
rear carb
throttle side opposite side
primary stock .089 stock .089
Vanke .089 Vanke .104

Secondary stock .080 Stock .082
Vanke .089 Vanke .104

Metering rod
stock .0665 .058 Stock .0665 .058
Vanke .0665 .058 Vanke .071 .061

Front Carb
Primary jet stock .089 stock .089
Vanke .104 Vanke .104

Secondary Stock .1065? Stock .089
Vanke .1065 Vanke .095
Metering rod stock .071 .061 Stock .071 .061
Vanke .071 .061 Vanke .071 .061

The article also mentioned different pump clusters (carter # 48-294-s) different needle and seats (carter# 25-861-s) and different primary clusters (carter#58-902 and 58-903) the pump cluster orifice size is .075 and the needle and seat orifice is .111
Vanke stated this was all just a starting point and that the clusters were not all that important
Posted By: 69 F5 R/T

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 03/22/19 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by Hemi_Joel
this info is from an old magazine article about the Vanke intake.
I used this as a starting point with my sock 625 cfm carbs and vanke modded intake, and it worked pretty good.

The jetting Vanke used was (probably with open headers);
rear carb
throttle side opposite side
primary stock .089 stock .089
Vanke .089 Vanke .104

Secondary stock .080 Stock .082
Vanke .089 Vanke .104

Metering rod
stock .0665 .058 Stock .0665 .058
Vanke .0665 .058 Vanke .071 .061

Front Carb
Primary jet stock .089 stock .089
Vanke .104 Vanke .104

Secondary Stock .1065? Stock .089
Vanke .1065 Vanke .095
Metering rod stock .071 .061 Stock .071 .061
Vanke .071 .061 Vanke .071 .061

The article also mentioned different pump clusters (carter # 48-294-s) different needle and seats (carter# 25-861-s) and different primary clusters (carter#58-902 and 58-903) the pump cluster orifice size is .075 and the needle and seat orifice is .111
Vanke stated this was all just a starting point and that the clusters were not all that important


That is some Great info Hemi_Joel!

Can you elaborate on your Hemi set-up (426 or over bore/ stroked) Stock or other cam ect?

Great to see info like this still out there and individuals still willing to share it!!!!!!!
Posted By: 69 F5 R/T

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 03/22/19 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by Transman


I think I am ready in regards to having enough jets, metering rods and even some boosters. And of course some spare air horn to main body and booster gaskets.


Sounds like you're right about where we are. Also have multiple sets of metering springs for fine tuning drivability once the rough is dialed in.

Maybe we should compare our build specs, as I intend to update this thread as we go through the summer or until everything is dialed in for anyone looking for this info in the future.

You do the same and we can bounce our findings off of each other and maybe make it that much easier : )

Posted By: JAKE68

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 03/22/19 07:33 PM

While all that jetting is fine for a starting point but remember the factory cars equipped with the vanke intake had larger carbs than factory street hemi.
Posted By: 69 F5 R/T

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 03/22/19 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by JAKE68
While all that jetting is fine for a starting point but remember the factory cars equipped with the vanke intake had larger carbs than factory street hemi.


Agreed, but when you get confirmed info from a reputable member who says this;

"I used this as a starting point with my sock 625 cfm carbs and vanke modded intake, and it worked pretty good."

It gives you a good indication that dual 625's can be made to work : )
Posted By: Transman

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 03/22/19 10:17 PM

69 F5 - PM sent to you.
Posted By: Hemi_Joel

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 03/22/19 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by 69 F5 R/T
Originally Posted by JAKE68
While all that jetting is fine for a starting point but remember the factory cars equipped with the vanke intake had larger carbs than factory street hemi.


Agreed, but when you get confirmed info from a reputable member who says this;

"I used this as a starting point with my sock 625 cfm carbs and vanke modded intake, and it worked pretty good."

It gives you a good indication that dual 625's can be made to work : )


When I used 750's on the Vanke, I started from scratch and developed a stagger that worked using dyno testing with thermocouples in all 8 tubes plus track testing. I am 100% certain that my results were NOT dead on. But they were closer than when I started. That was 16-17 yeas ago. If someone is going o run 750's on a Vanke, I will try to find my notes.

My motor at the time I switched to the Vanke was a 4.310x 4.15, solid flat tappet w 630ish lift, short duration (can't remember the numbers) $600 worth of porting by Glen Knowlton, 11.8:1, 612 horse. Over time, I added the 750's, a .730 roller cam, more porting, and added about 100 horse. Shifted at 7400.
Then I converted a factory intake to a single plane that still looked stock on the outside and picked up another 40 horse. This was all with exhaust manifolds for FAST.
Posted By: 69 F5 R/T

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 03/26/19 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by Hemi_Joel
[quote=69 F5 R/T]

When I used 750's on the Vanke, I started from scratch and developed a stagger that worked using dyno testing with thermocouples in all 8 tubes plus track testing. I am 100% certain that my results were NOT dead on. But they were closer than when I started. That was 16-17 yeas ago. If someone is going o run 750's on a Vanke, I will try to find my notes.

My motor at the time I switched to the Vanke was a 4.310x 4.15, solid flat tappet w 630ish lift, short duration (can't remember the numbers) $600 worth of porting by Glen Knowlton, 11.8:1, 612 horse. Over time, I added the 750's, a .730 roller cam, more porting, and added about 100 horse. Shifted at 7400.
Then I converted a factory intake to a single plane that still looked stock on the outside and picked up another 40 horse. This was all with exhaust manifolds for FAST.


Man, to be a fly on the wall during those dyno sessions would have been Nuts!

Do you recall the change in bottom end and top end power when you switched to the gutted (pretty well plenum short runner) intake?

I could see 3-500 increase in top end power, but very curious how much low end would be lost.
Posted By: Hemi_Joel

Re: Vanke Intake modifications - 03/26/19 02:36 AM

The rumors at the time where that the vanke was going to kill the bottom end. I was expecting a big hit, but it never happened. I assumed it was because of the cubic inches.
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