Is there a fix for wheel wobble on stock suspension?

Without converting to aftermarket front end kits is there a way to fix wheel wobble on stock suspension?

Here is a video of my wife’s car with some bolt on parts like tubular upper A-arms, aluminum strut rods, strange brakes and cal-track shocks but still running stock lower control arms and torsion bars.

It might not hurt anything but it looks like it would be hard on suspension parts and could break something eventually...

1968 Barracuda wheel wobble video

Good double adjustable shocks in the front.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91dmTS-UvDc

Here's a better video of what's happening. This is Tig's car by the way.
I can feel mine doing it when it touches down. I don't think it matters what shock you have on it.

Check the idler arm closely.

That is a lot of wobble. I'd beef everything up on the steering linkage side. Heavy duty tie rods, billet adjuster, brace the steering box, etc. The road race guys have been doing this for years so the parts are off the shelf from Hotchkis or other road race vendors.

I have the same issue with my 64 dodge, I do not notice it in the steering wheel but people tell me it wobbles when the wheels touch down just like in your video. My car has everything new in the front end. I went to the heim joint link bar and changed the toe-in settings a couple times and never did correct it.

Doug (dvw) could probably get you straightened out on this if he see's this post.

I'd probably start with something like this: https://www.hotchkis.net/product/mopar-a...amp;md=&sm=

Im glad you brought this up. I was told this last season that I was having the same thing and saw it on a vid. I just looked at an older vid and it was not happening. Will check idler/tie rod ends/ball joints/steering box play closely when I get home

My stuff doesn't have enough power to get the front tires high enough of the ground to create such issues so I have no experience with this. I for one would think that wobble is not the easiest on parts and could also affect your ET run to run. I'd be trying to fix it that's for sure.

After watching that video, there is something very wrong in your steering components. Looks more like a bad idler arm.

Mine used to do the same thing,only worse. The idler arm bushing was worn out. Put a new Moog idler arm on. Problem solved.

Love my tube K rack steering coil over shocks!!! ....carry on! :j

Me too !

A couple of thoughts. First this can only occur if there is movement or flex. If the control arm bushings, idler arm pivot, or strut rod bushings compress and release you will see positive/negative toe change. Additionally there could be hard part flexing. Control arms, tie rod sleeves, ball joints, and even uni-body. So what gets all this started? My feeling is as the A-arms pivot downward and the front of the car raises, the track becomes narrower. When the tires return to the track surface they are being forced outward trying to return to the static track width. This part of the geometry we can not change. Good condition parts, poly bushings are the first step. My bet as stated earlier is the idler arm pivot bushing is a big factor. Tightening the compression on the front shocks helps by slowing the return to earth. I know mine has done it it on occasion when the shock settings are to loose. Look at Tigs car in the video. The RF is wobbling on the way up.
Doug

My Dart did that same typical Mopar death wabble even with all new bushings, aftermarket uppers and new steering box. A big part of whats going on is we do the alignment specific for drag racing it loses the bump steer and geometry and gain a bunch of caster which works for going straight just not up n down. I went to a Bob's Pro Fab unit with double adjustable shocks and and cured that issue. Much more stable on the top end also.

How much caster are you running? That reminds me of a Sprint Car; it's common to see on them, but it's a transient thing, just at one speed. They run a lot of caster.

DVW, do you know about how much toe-in/out change you have throughout your suspension travel range?

me three

Wade my car does it just a fraction of that. Mine has RMS tube uppers, RMS Tube Strut rods, and stock lowers with a poly bushing. 5* of positive caster and it drives like a dream on the track and street.

I agree on checking the idler arm but you might also want to take it over to Jim Sams and let him see it.

Thanks everyone for your feedback!

Bad340fish, yep, I already spoke to Jim this morning and taking it to him as soon as I get the motor back in. He said he may put a B-body tie rods on it as well as checking out all the other components.

wade get a copy of the old direct connection race manuals. this is called bump steer and it does cost et not much but some. the race manual show you how to map your front end out from all the way up to all the way down. you have to raise or lower the point of contact from the outer tire rod to the spindle. there are people that sell bump steer kits they work too. google bump steer

Yes good parts are a must. But it is not just the contributing factor. when coming down it is going threw a caster change and a toe change. the thing is to minimize toe change (bump steer).info in mopar chassis book.
dougs car has very little bump steer. oops saw someone beat me to that.

Check the rear alignment too - it may be driving the car slightly to the side.

I have used the manual on many cars, PIA to do, but it does help. Best fix is rack and pinion, but lots of geometry issues with that too.

My opinion on the fix for the wobble is to limit how high the wheelies goes up, limit it to a 1 or 2 inches and it won't do that

The video of the challenger is from 2010 and I've done some work on it since then. Replacing all the bushes including the idler arm helped but didn't eliminate it. Limiting travel helps but may cause traction issues, especially with Caltracs.I also found out that E bodys use 2 different Pitman arms on manual steering boxes and they have to match the idler arm or the heights are different, this will mess up the bumpsteer as each side will then do it's own thing. At the same time, I flipped the tie rod ball joint/steering link bar to help with toe out on extension, but it still does it, though to a much lesser degree. I'm replacing the stock K member with a QA1 tubular after a big wheelie elongated cracked the LCA/torsion bar pivot mount, maybe this will help. IMHO, the only way to eliminate it entirely is going to a strut type front. HTH's

DVW, do you know about how much toe-in/out change you have throughout your suspension travel range? [/quote]

Less than 1/8" though out the travel. Mine will wobble slightly if the front rebound is to loose. A few more thought. Adding caster on a traditional Mopar front suspension brings the outer tie rods closer to the ground. Depending on your car this may help or hurt the situation. Mine has heims in place of the outer tie rods to lower the tie rods. In my case it was pretty close to start with.
Doug

I have these on my car and it still does it. I think it happens when there is very little weight on the front tires.

If you will go back and look at old Hemi Challenge races, before they tied them down so much, almost all of the SS/AH cars did it at the time.

Here is a slow motion leave for my car and you can see them wobble.

This is probably aggravated by the fact the most of us run so little toe in. My car has had the bump steer corrected.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB47w1GF6TY&feature=youtu.be

A steering damper, like is used on VW's and Monte Carlo's. Used to see that problem a lot on old straight axle drag cars. Basically it's a sideways shock absorber.

My truck started doing the death wobble thing. Put a new steering damper on it and it was cured. Very simple setup.

If you watch it's not the wheels going left, right, left,etc like a straight axle would. They to in together, out together. It's not just Mopar's. Anything that has A-arm style steering using linkage. I don't think I've seen a strut car do it. Or for that matter one with Rack and pinion. I still believe its caused by load from track width change and flex (most of it in the steering linkage). When mine does do it looks similar to the video posted by 340 Cuda above.
Doug

When my Valiant was doing this I tightened the top control arm bolts super tight and it cured it.

My buddy's 68 Barracuda did the same exact thing. It would eventually loosen the bolts holding on the steering box. The fix is simple but sadly it's been a few years and I can't remember it all. Maybe it's bump steer? Maybe the fix was rod ends for the outer ball joints. Sorry I can't remember the exact process.

Wade as I recall. A B-body strg knuckle is 1" taller than an A-body. This will help the upper control arm. As it will shorten it's travel arc. The B-body will work if you already have the large upper ball jnt.

wade i have noticed that your front tires lean in more than mine do. Although they both seem to look fine when parked. That might be a function of different brand of front end parts?

Wade's photo is from Mary Robinson(I had to crop it out to make it fit)

looks like the upper bump stops are gone, or have been cut down

FWIW, watching the second video of the Challenger, take a look at the LCA at 30-32 secs. in. Sure looks like odd movement. Like it's stretching forward in the air and gets slammed toward the back on touch down. After that, the wheels look like they are wobbling in sync and independently of the suspension. Looks like a steering issue from here. Carry on...

My upper bump stops are cut down to almost down to the numb for more travel.

In my opinion that is A LOT of the problem, that car hooks good, replace the bump stops & play with the rebound on front shocks.good double adj shocks would be the best, bet the car would et better

Limiting front suspension travel (EXT) can cause problems with Caltrac cars. Calvert asks for a minimum of 5" I believe, which may necessitate the cutting down of bump stops. Basically we're asking the suspension to move in a range they were never designed for

No issue cutting the bump stop. Travel and shock dampening are two seperate tuning windows. You can still use tight shock settings with a lot of travel. A car that is real nose heavy and or a very long wheelbase may like a lot of travel. For what it's worth. On my 64 Belvedere I tested removing the bump stops. It was only worth 1/2" increase in travel at the wheel.
Doug

The red Cuda with the camber change: lengthen the upper arms (Jack Arnew was the guy on that back in the day) and/or adding bump stop height.
He did the front end on my Duster back in its SS days in the '70s. Basically widened them to move the spindle to a more vertical orientation.
Side effect is I can get over 7 degrees + caster. Car goes straight as a string & no issues when the tires come back down to earth.

Mine are as well. I actually have some low profile poly ones in there but they just barely touch the arm at full droop, I should probably just take them out and save the lbs.

The AMX I race used to have the front tire wobble, but since I rebuilt the front end, installed heim joints on the strut rods, and did a alignment is has been good.

Also remember Caster is relative to frame angle. A 2 degree rake with 3 degrees of caster will be 5 degrees when the car is at speed and level. Mine runs 2 1/2 degree of caster with 2 degrees of rake. Drives perfect at 150
Doug

Make sure you have no worm out, bent or broken pieces up front, I doubt you will find anything but check for sure. But looks like typical bumpsteer to me. Lots of ways to fix it..

Did a quick search and this is a decent explanation of what it is and does. It can easily be measured on your car and then can be addressed a few ways, may not be able to TOTALLY get it out but can be made better.