Max wedge heads on the street too much?

I am looking for some real life experience from people who run max wedge size heads on their cars that mainly see the streets with the occasional strip run. Are you happy with your heads or do you wish you would have went with the standard port size? Did you lose more bottom end power than expected? When replying can you post you car's combo (model, weight, engine, rear ratio, converter, tire size, head mfg etc more info the better).

A much better way to go about this, IMO, is describe your intended performance goals and how the car will be used, and see what kinds of recommendations come back.

It’s best to have a budget in mind for the engine as well.

"on the street" is too vague of a term. Some guys run full out race engines on the street and they'll tell you that they work just fine. Other guys get bent out of shape if their engine isn't as smooth as a new Cadillac.

My personal opinion is that I'm not going to run a MW port on the street. My street car has a 512 inch low deck with standard port heads and I'm not interested in giving up any low end torque. The car makes enough power as is to get me into serious trouble in just 3 or 4 seconds on the street so why tempt fate with even more top end power. Other people may disagree.

30 years ago I ran a MW engine on the street complete with cross ram and 4.56 gears out back. It worked okay for what it was but I wouldn't drive that combo today on the street.

I am helping a guy right now with a 505 that will have Trick Flow 270 heads and a street roller cam. It will be a pump gas engine with a Sniper EFI setup. I think it will work fine for him since the Sniper will solve a bunch of drivability problems, but I wouldn't build one for my own car that way.

Much bigger heads than that have been run very sucessfully on small mild street engines (eagle heads on a genIII 345 hemi for one example) so I would be shocked if you found them too big on a 44o if thats your concern, heck they would probably would be fine on a 361 with the correct supporting parts like cam, intake carb and such.

where do you want your torque peak to be?
roughly 4500rpm or more like 5500 rpm?

I think all above are correct in their guidance .
I have the Trickflow 270 , max wedge . heads on my 505 daily driver/strip Plymouth . When first fitted the converter felt a bit softer . Got used to this pretty quick and didn't notice after a couple of days

BUT

My combo is not strictly normal for daily use .
68 Satellite , 4.1 gears , 29"street tyre , 5500 converter ( and seems higher now with dominator carb )

I have to pull motor as there is an internal moisture issue . If significant I will put this top end on my 440ci and keep going at least till end of season
Lets face it a 270 head is still smaller than most BBChev heads used , they don't seem to have to many issues on 454 etc

Tex

I appreciate all your replies! For "on the street" I was thinking something easy on the valvetrain and not too steap of gear or big stall. I have been slowly buying parts on the form here when I see a good deal and have accumulated a 440 source stroker kit 4.25" stroke 4.35 bore -27 dish piston, a Indy 440-2d intake standard port. I did buy a new pair of stealth heads in 2009 that have never been installed. I was talking with a local head Porter about the stealths and having them ported and he warned me about them having weak seats along with other issues and it made me gun shy to use them. I figure now any head choice is on the table and I'd like to get some ideas. Buget for the heads would be around $2000. I'd like to stick with a solid flat tappet cam for cost and maintenance. I'd like a cam head combo that would have a long flat torque curve and could take advantage of flow at .600" occasionally and not Reve past 6500. The car is a 65 Coronet, auto, manual brakes, 3.91 gears.

never heard anything bad about the stealth seats, I have max wedge ports on my 512, indy 400-2 intake, 3.54 gear & od trans, love it.

If I had those parts I'd build an engine and drive it. Send the Stealth heads to Porter Racing Heads in VT and have him look them over. Tell him what you're trying to do. I don't think you want to open them up to a MW size, just check them over and give them a Stage II type of porting.

I'd use a smaller flat tappet cam. Lots to pick from, I like the Mopar .528 for a real street car but you could go one or two sizes larger if you want. Maybe take the money you have budgeted for new heads and use some of it for a hyd roller cam??

I'd sell the Indy dual plane and buy a Performer RPM.

The rotating assembly sounds fine to me as long as the compression ratio comes out correct for your application.

I have a low deck 512 in my '65 Coronet with ported RPM heads, cast iron ex manifolds, Sniper EFI and a 246 @ 050 hyd roller cam. It makes about 575 hp which is way more power than I really need on the street.

If I were starting from scratch I go with the trick flow 270. However, since you already have the stealth I would go ahead and use it. Have them ported by somebody like Dwayne or modern cylinder head and have the locks and retainers replaced. Probably should match the spring so they can too. Personally, I've never heard of any problems with the valve seats in the stealth heads. I've got well over 5,000 miles on mine and they don't have an issue with that.

Exactly and although I run RPM standart ports I will go max wedge.........no such thing as "too much" on the street just not enuff nutz to drive em and I know of a few 7-8 second street cars in my town..........

The head porter is a reputable Mopar guy who makes his living doing heads so I put some weight I what he says. He does sell a competing aluminum head but I don't get that vibe from him that he would stear me away from the stealth to sell his stuff. I have looked back through the form and saw some posts about the stealths being soft and some cracking issues a bit before the time I bought my heads so I got nervous. I didn't see anything about dropping seats though. I originally planned to just port the stealths and feel a bit more confident about it now if that is everyones recommendation. AndyF you say to sell the Indy for a RPM? I thought the Indy was a better flowing intake? Running a hydraulic roller cam around 250 @ .50 How frequent are spring changes, lifter rebuids etc for the hydraulic rollers? I thought the sft cam would be easier to maintain and easier on parts but am all ears! I appreciate it!

Engine building is all about matching the parts. The 440Source rotating assembly is a good match for the Stealth heads. A Performer RPM would be a better match for the Stealth heads than the Indy intake. Cam choice is up to you. A hyd roller will work fine with the Stealth heads since the engine is going to make torque down low rather than be a high rpm type of setup. Torque peak will be around 5000 rpm with power peak around 6500 rpm. You don't need 250 @ 050 to hit those numbers, something in the low 240 range should do it.

I stood with my standard port windows on my Indy SR's against the recommendations of my builder at BEST machine and I am happy with them. They make gobs of torque on the low end right where the engine spends most of its time at.
Trick Flo's are your ticket if you option that way.

As stated it all depends on the combo and the performance you are looking for. I have seen some standard port combo's run as hard or harder then some Max Wedge port combo's in street cars only because the large Max Wedge port combo's were not a good matched up combo. Myself I got my EZ heads from Dwayne Porter and he opened up the ports to Max Wedge size but the heads are not heavily ported. But its what I wanted because I felt I run enough gear and converter for it to work and I also may want to step my combo up some more one day.

My eng is 4.15 stroke 440 (493 ci) and I do run 4.30's gears in my street car but I run 30" tall rear tires and a Dynamic 9.5 converter. And I am very happy with my car as it has run 10.70's driven to the track and raced just as I drive it through the full exh on 92 pump gas. And I don't change a thing at the track as I run it just as I drive it. I also don't run a roller cam as I use a solid flat tappet that's .585 & .592 lift with 264 & 270 @ .050 on a 110 LSA.


So I would say yes you can run Max Wedge ports on the street if you run the right combo so it works good. I feel mine works fine as my car has good low end and runs nicely as a driver. Good luck which ever way you decide on. Ron

The standard port size is a very good size for 470 cubes, but going above 512 cubes the large (max wedge) heads have about the same cross section to cubes as a 383 with standard ports. Those 383s seemed to run pretty good,,,,,,

I would size the cylinder head to the cubic inches and rpm range. A standard port head is perfect for a street 440. But for 500 cubes they are way too small and hold the engine back.
A 270cc port is a nice port size for a stroker rather it’s street or strip imo.

I did a back to back dyno test with Trick Flow 240 heads vs. 270 heads. The 270 heads made 25 more hp starting around 6000 rpm. Below that there wasn't a huge difference. Which means that on the street the 240 heads will work better since most street driving is off idle or part throttle. This was on a 470 inch pump gas engine which is fairly typical for a street car.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/dyno-day-trick-flow-270-mopar-heads/

My street car has a 500" low deck, pump gas 10:1 compression, 557 MP can, and Eddy heads with MW ports. Zero regrets!

I drove it to the track with 3.23 gears, ran 10.69 at 124mph and drove it home.

On the street I can launch in 2nd gear and it feels like a 10 sec pass. I love it.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but he's gonna have 35 more cubic inches. I agree that either trick flow head would work great. But if it were me I would get the bigger cylinder head. Because if he decides he wants more later, he will have room.

I know the 240 and 270 heads flow identical from.100" to .300" and then start to change. It isn't until .600" you really see some substantial increases for the 270's vs 240's.

I'm going to investigate getting the stealth's ported with new springs, locks and retainers and see how much i'll be into them compared to if I sold them and bought some trickflows. I'm thinking I'll end up having the same total amount of money in a set of heads either way even if I take a few hundred dollar hit on the stealth's.

That is a interesting thought on the about the cross section to cubic inch ratio. I'm not engine builder and do not know science to building an engine but that makes sense to me at face value. I'm sure there is more to this!

AndyF would you have dyno sheets you could post showing the 240's vs 270's when you did the back to back pulls? It would be interesting to see the slower port velocity of the 270's down low in the rpm's and to also see where peak torque and hp happened for each head. I am surprised the engine didn't make more hp on average earlier and at a greater number since you had some pretty serious lift without a ton of duration on that cam. Like I said I'm not a engine builder so that may seem like a dumb statement! It is the air velocity that is keeping power so close to with each head correct?

ProSport - That is a impressive run! What weight is your car and what trans setup are you running and what is your tire size? Please divulge any more details you can on your ride if you can! Wicked car!

Thanks, it's a 3300# Duster with me in it.
275/60/15 drag radial, bone stock suspension, one new leaf added to each spring as they were sagging.
727 trans, 9.5" dynamic street converter, 8.75 rearend with Yukon nodular center section and stock 3.23 gears, Moser axles and spool.
Small 1.75 headers, mechanical water pump and fan, never runs hot. Indy intake with pro-systems 950 carb.

Without any specific horsepower or ET goal, I’d say you could achieve good results with either std or MW port.
If I were starting from scratch, I’d probably lean towards the 270’s and run the Indy 2D opened up to match the heads.

My combo is wilder than your looking to build, but in my opinion it works good on the street. 67 Barracuda, 3300#, 512@11.25:1,270@50 solid flat, 5200 8", 4.30/28" tire. Vacuum idling in park is 9" and 7" in drive. I'm using the MW Edelbrock victors with CNC by Hughes Engines. Heads flow 356 from .600 on up and port measures 330cc. It will soon be getting a 3.73 gear as i think it can handle it just fine. Haven't been to the track yet,but i am expecting easy mid 10's and should go low 10's on drag radials. Currently using Hoosier QTP and i can break those loose at 45MPH in 3rd gear. Plenty of grunt for the street and resently drove 60 miles to a car show in 92* humid weather with no issues other than it was very hot inside the car. I would go the the 270 head with not much to loose down low. 512's make alot of torque anyway with that 4.25 arm. One other thing, my 8" 5200 vert drives like a common 3500 stall or better. Got it from Dynamic and refreshed by Lenny. Very nice piece. Hope this helps.

Kind of reminds me of the article way back in the dark ages when Chrysler Power put their set of -1 heads on their dually and reported favorably.

I had three different sets of heads on my old pump gas Duster stroker motor, a set of 906 ported big valve heads, a set of CNC ported Eddy RPM heads. I used the same intake and carbs on both of those, I saw .2 ET (10.69 to 10.49) and 3.2 MPH(124.5 to 127.8 MPH) increase in performance on that swap. I dyno tested two different sets of Indy M.W. intake port heads, a set of SR and a set of CNC ported 440-1, I used the same intake and carb. on both sets of those heads. The 440-1 heads made 50 HP more on the dyno but I didn't run them on that motor at the track.
The car ran a best of 9.993 at 134.6 MPH on Oregon 91 octane pump swill through the 3.0 exhaust system exiting at the rear bumper with the SR heads and a 400-3 intake and a Holley 1050 CFM # 9375 non HP carb
The right foot controls how far open the throttle blades are open, doesn't it The camshaft, intake and carb and cylinder heads determine how many CFM the motor will consume at WOT
Keep in mind though that I am a drag racer first, not a street racer or show car type of guy

This description doesn’t sound like someone targeting the 10’s.

A pump gas 505 with std port heads and a low maintenance solid flat tappet will easily make 600hp & 650ft/lbs.

My suggestion for the 270’s is really based on the possibility the OP might want to up the ante down the road, and that’ll make it easier to do should things go that way.

But as for what the original goals are.... easily achieved with std or MW heads.

1968 Dodge Charger,4050lb with me Street car, COLD AC, 512 low deck, 440 source stroker kit
9.7 compression,Morel high rpm roller lifters, Hughes hydro roller cam 255,258@.050,
.608/.613 lift with 1.6 T&D rockers with B3 geometry correction,Trend push rods, Indy 400-2 intake
that I ported to max wedge,1050AN 4150 pieced together carb,
440 source Super stealth heads max wedge size that I ported flow 330 @ .700, with Farrea valves,
Comp Beehive springs, 1 7/8 headers, full 3" magnaflow exhaust & tail pipes.
A518 overdrive trans,4000stall lock up converter, alum driveshaft,
3.54 Strange Dana 60, Caltrac bars & split mono springs with sliders.
325-50-15 MT drag radials street. drove 80 mph, 80 mile round trip to the track, dropped the air pressure in the rear tires, turned of the AC & made a easy , short shifted pass,11.33 @ 121, next pass went up against the converter 2500 & it blew the tires off, got to hot outside for me, drove home in the ac. smile

If I had it to do over I would get the Trick flow 270, even though I did my own port work I have a lot invested in these 440 source heads.

I wouldn't use the real max wedge heads, to rare. $$ to mess up.

Dwayne is correct. I'm currently not looking to get into the 10's but I do like the idea of spending money wisely and planning for the future. If I can spend some money now that would make any upgrading easier down the road I'd like to consider taking that route. Like what 383man did with his heads and build.

csk, how do you like the Morel lifters? I have not considered a hydraulic roller but I have noticed a lot of guys with great cars running them like you, therocks, GY3 and AndyF etc. I think I'll pursue the head upgrade and see how much money would be left to possibly go with a hydraulic roller setup.

An "on demand" power adder like a small shot of nitrous allows you to have a reasonably mild street engine/converter/gear combo.

Open the bottle, spray a small plate shot and dip deep into the 10's and possibly 9's.

Nitrous loves a 3.54 gear and a tight converter.

My build thread details how I installed my system and the results.

If you have a $2000 budget for heads then you can buy a set of Trick Flow 240 heads. Sell your Stealth heads for $600 or $700 and use that money to buy a hyd roller cam and lifters. You'll most likely need to add a little money to the pot for gaskets, pushrods, etc. but the damage shouldn't be too bad. The TF 240 heads on a 505 short block will make more power than you really need in '65 Coronet. Especially if you still have four wheel drum brakes!

Good luck and have fun.

I got the high rpm Morels, kinda pricey, I went hydro roller after having a solid FT failure,I have 1000 miles on it since the change, my valve train is not the quietest in the world, my cam has a fairly aggressive ramp,this car is a BLAST to drive, I just got home from a 75 mile freeway run, if I had the gas money I would do that more than a couple of times a week LOL. so far no tuning,1st easy pass 11.33 @ 121 1750 DA

What cam cam and lifters we're you running when you had a failure? Did you lose a lobe? That is a nice pass especially for a first run!

I had a Howards cam & Trend Tool steel lifters, running the hard lifters made it fracture, Flaking the nose of every lobe, That is what Dwayne suggested as the cause & I agree with him, quite a few people have had the same results that I did, I probably would have been ok if I had not used Tool steel lifters, very expensive mistake,although cam & lifter people said things would work GREAT LOL, I just did not want to take another chance on Solid FT cam again, a lot of people have NO problem with plain EDM lifters.

Very cool car, if you lived closer we could do some cruisin!

Thanks ProSport, if you ever make it down to the Houston area let me know