80’s or early 90’s MP “recipe” 440 build article

Anyone have a copy of that article where they built a 440 bottom end with aluminum rods and flat top pistons, and then started swapping cams and top end parts using the MP bracket race guidelines?
I can’t remember if it was a Mopar magazine or CC or HR or PH, but I wanna say the testing was done at Arrow Racing Engines.

They started with what would basically be a stock 440-4, and ended up with the Weiand TR, 2x750 carbs and the .690 mushroom cam.

I might have that.

October '86 hot rod magazine. "b" motor recipies; dc's shake and bake dyno packages. arrow racing's dyno floggers,.....?

Did it start out with stock heads and intake, stock type cam, ex manifolds......and then they work through several combos until they finish up with like stage 5 heads, TR and the mushroom cam?

phase 1 started with stock '452 heads, cast iron exhaust manifolds with stock mufflers, cast iron thermoquad intake with holley adapter, 272/.455 cam/stock rockers, 3310 holey, electronic ignition. 453lbft of torque at 3200rpm, 350 horsepower at 4750 rpm.

last test (phase 5) used ported stage v's, tunnel ram with two 750's, race headers, .690/328 mushroom cam. 603hp at6500rpm, 527lbft of torque at 5500rpm.

That’s the one......Were they using an electric W/P drive or a belt from the crank?

If you don’t mind, if you could give a brief description of a few more of the lower stages that would be great.

It was in a Mopar tech article compilation book I had but may have thrown away since it was real old stuff. Now I'm curious if I kept it or not.

I didn't notice any specialty pumps. pretty sure the belt driven was all there was back then but from what I can tell they used factory type pump.

phase 2; holley strip dominator, 750 holley, headers, 280/.474 cam, no mufflers, chrome ignition box. 478lbft of torque between 3500-4500rpm, 406hp at 5000rpm.


phase 3; small valve stage v, 2" headers, race oil system, 284/.528 cam/iron rockers, steel shim head gaskets. 488lbft of torque at4250rpm, 446hp at 5500rpm. swapping to .620/324 mopar cam gave 478lbft of torque at 4750rpm, 486hp at 6000rpm.

phase 4; ported stage v's, .690/328 mushroom cam, 850 holley. 500lbsft of torque at 5000-5500rpm, 560hp at 5750rpm.


looking thru the details they did use venolia flat top pistons ( the ones I played with back in the day were like 6pak pistons) with bill miller rods.

Thanks Lew.

I was discussing what the real power of a “stock” 440-4 was, and thought I had remembered the first stage in that test was less than 375hp.

Of course, you can’t really have the discussion using data from different sources without the “comparing dynos” factor brought into the conversation.

I’ve never dyno tested a 440 built to stock specs so I don’t have a reference point for the dyno here....... but the numbers gleaned from the pretty mild 440’s I have tested lead me to believe that one built totally to the OE configuration wouldn’t make 375hp here.

Pretty sure there was a more recent dyno test done by Dulcich I believe. He did a stock 383 magnum and also a 440 magnum. The 383 made almost exactly 335 hp IIRC and the 440 made around 350 hp. I'll see if I can dig those articles up...was in Mopar Muscle mag I think.

375 hp is tough to hit for a stone stock engine with assembly line heads, cast iron manifolds, factory carb and factory ignition setup.....

The dulcich test was done in 2001...... which was prior to the revelation that westechs dyno was correcting about 5% high.
The stock test showed 357hp....... if you take 5% off it’s 340hp.

Plus, they ran it without a factory air filter...... which probably costs a few hp.

Back in the 80's we did a stock 70 440-4 on an OLD Gopower dyno it made 325 hp

Chrysler says real power for stock 4bbl 440 is between 270-330hp. this probably includes 8:1 engines. the 440 in my 69 r/t is 9.3:1 compression (kb184 pistons and 906 heads with some pocket porting), 272-.455 cam, stock exhaust manifolds, stock avs and intake, and stock 2 1/4" mufflers. I estimate 325hp; definitely no barn burner.


I do have another article of a chassis dyno test of a '70 6pak super bee if you guys want to know what they really were.

I could give you another "Phase 4" type recipe just for reference, my 446SP motor from actual track mph/weight.....no dyno's.

Stock 1968 440-6 bottom end, with .039 fel-pro's>
Ported 906's (approx 260cfm) 2.14/1.81
Comp. 290@.050-.650/.650 solid>
HS r/rockers
Team G Dom w-2" reducer for 850DP
no alternator
Moroso elec motor driven w/pump
MSD6A...37 deg. total
2" f/wells+12" extensions
Single line external
used to trap around 6600
=531fwhp.

All that stuff above with just Stock 906's was 456fwhp.
Worked out with Wallace.

An old Mopar Muscle article -- way before Dulcich -- had IMO a pretty good attempt at duplicating a stock 440 HP build, including the reproduction 383-440 HP cam. IIRC, it made about 350 HP, but I don't recall the torque, other than it was a good bit lower than the factory rating. It seemed pretty legit to me.

Anyone know of any tests where a stock type 440-4 build was tested with a 440-6 on it??

Was it worth more than the claimed 15hp gain?

I can tell you what I did. my r/t with a completely stock '69 4bb engine and exhaust (all original parts, no souped up mufflers or stuff), 3.23 gear, 225-70x15 t/a radial ran a best of 14.01@98.9mph. added a 6pak only and went 13.45@104mph. 103mph was a bad day out. I will say that getting to 104mph was a challenge. I had a twisted fuel line back by the sender that was ok for the 4bbl but wouldn't supply enough fuel for the 6pak. once figured out things began to take off. Chrysler claims a 6pak was between 340-370hp stock.


I have a august 1969 hot rod magazine strip test were an a12 car ran 13.56@105.63 completely stock. I think this is a very good number for a stock a12 because I remember a bunch of them couldn't get into the 13's.


I also have a September 1970 popular hot rodding chassis dyno test on a '70 6pak super bee 4spd. completely stock it made 244hp@4250 rpm. ran 13.95@100.78mph. after dyno tune it made 272hp@4250rpm, ran 13.74@105.63mph.


when I finished messing with my r/t 6pak combo it was making 325hp at the wheels on a dyno jet. 9.3:1 compression. stock valve '906's, hughs/engle 2330 cam, 3.23 gear, same t/a radials and exhaust manifolds with dynomax super hemi mufflers. eventually it picked up 9mph in the quarter and I believe at least 6mph was the 6pak. they are power adders for sure but people screw them up with dumb ideas.

At around 3900lbs, 99mph to 104mph shows about a 55hp gain.

I guess I’ll have to add it to my long list of things I’d like to try on the dyno someday.

We rebuilt a 440-6 to basically stock specs last year.
2355 pistons, rebuilt 906’s(zero porting), felpro head gaskets, heads just milled the minimum, but it got a Howard’s 720141-12 cam(279/289, 225/235-112, .490/.488), and it was dynoed with 1-7/8” headers but without the air filter assy.
Made 410hp.

Mopar Muscle did an article on one about 2 years ago, pretty similar build, used a Comp 270h cam, made basically the same power.

my r/t weighed 4060lbs with me in it weighed at the track. with the last combo I had in it I believe horsepower was in the 410-415 range with 107.5-108mph trap speeds. ironically on the chassis dyno the engine was pretty much done at 4300rpm and fell off the cliff at 5300rpm. I shifted around 5200rpm. fuel delivery is a big deal with the 6pak. I do believe the kb184 piston makes more power than the stock 2.03 pin height 10:1 piston.

451 low block 452 heads D.C. Pocket ported. KB reverse dome 10.6 compression. Port matched and Vanke mod low deck cast iron intake 440 AVS carb. Hughes 224 230 at .050 .504 intake .515 stock rockers. Stock hp exhaust manifolds. 3900 lbs Bee, 11" dynamic 4.10 gear. 12.42 at 111 and change. 20 years ago. Had a lot of people scratching their head.

I took a bunch of old track test data from several magazines for 440s and using test weight, mph and weather conditions, correcting to std conditions, they were in the 300 range. I don't think any of the 4bbl cars broke 100 mph. Like Lew said the DC book called them 275 to 320.

Back in 1990 we were talking even back then how hard it would be to truly replicate a factory 440. If you want to try Dwayne, ill toss in the 2.03" (+0.030) pistons.

When we swapped out a factory TQ intake with a Holley 800 cfm spreadbore carb to my 6 bbl set up on a stockish 440 it picked up 2 mph, from about 102 to 104.

My opinion is a truly stock 440 with a well tuned 750 avs/afb Probably gives up 20 - 25 HP to the 6 bbl. But once you do just a little more to the engine, the 4bbl intake has no more to give as it is the limiting factor, where as the 6bbl is not. Add a little cam and better head to 6bbl motor and it mighty pick up 30 or 40 HP but on a factory 4bbl maybe only 15-20 HP.

That 440 I started 4 years ago I was planning to do a bunch of track testing of intakes and carbs on a 425 - 450 HP potential motor. Maybe ill get back to it.

Not a 440 but back in the August 2017 issue ( I think ) Mopar Muscle dyno'd the 340 they built to basically stock specs but had roller tip rockers and mild bowl blending. It made 320 hp with stock intake , carb , cam specs and exh manifolds. They added the 6 pack setup and made 356 hp with no other changes. Ron

I would have loved to hear about the engineering and testing that went into developing the A12 six pack package.

Sort of...

After Dulcich did his big 440 intake comparison which IIRC included an OEM iron 4-bbl, he did another article where he tested a 6-bbl on the same engine to see how it compared with a Performer RPM and a Holley 830 HP.

Once he stuffed enough jet into the outboard carbs, the 6-bbl made a few more HP than the Performer RPM combo.

I suppose if you could find both articles online that there would be a way to compare the OEM iron intake with the 6-bbl. But it wasn't a stock 440 he dynoed, either, so the comparison would need some caveats...

I know this isn't really what you're after, but I changed manifolds on my old 10:1 906 headed (unported) 440 w/ the MP 509/292 cam that ran high 11s w/ a Performer RPM intake and 830 holley.
I had an MP aluminum M1 dual plane manifold (aluminum version of the stock HP intake) that I put on just for the hell of it w/ the same 830 holley. I didn't take it to the track, but the loss of power was astonishing. It felt completely neutered and was all done at a lil over 5k rpm versus the 6200-6300 or so RPM the RPM intake would pull. Really wasn't expecting that drastic of a power loss on such a mild engine.
After that, I could definitely see why the 6 pack cars ran so much better than the 4V cars.

I believe it! I took the 6bbl off my r/t and put the original stock stuff back on a few years ago and the power loss was tremendous.

I found another track test of a 375hp 440 in a '69 gtx automatic 3.91 gear car. best e.t. was 13.98 and best mph was 103.80. I consider this performance to be more of an exception than common place. I remember back in the late '60's, when pure stock racing really was pure stock, 375hp 440's would run in the lower half of 14 sec bracket. exceptions to that would be 14.00's to 13.90's at 100mph.

on another note here, who was the first to coin the phrase 6 bbl? ford in 1962 with their 3 carb 405hp 406.

found another track test (1970 hot rod magazine); '70 challenger, 375hp 440, auto, 3.55 rear, 3850lbs; 14.54@98.36mph. a little below average performance.

It's amazing what headers and a cam will do.

Stock '71 bottom end (ring and bearing) and stock 452 heads with a Holley pattern '67(?) Intake and 750 3310.9.5:1 CR.

Made 318hp to the rear tire.

I wish I had kept it long enough to play with intakes...

Fairly recently a friend of mine reringed and rebearinged the low mileage 440 in his 69 GTX. He put one of those resto camshafts in it as well. It ran 13.97 at 100MPH at Mission raceway. I think that was faster than an average one back in the day but Mission is a good track and this thing was as close to stock as you're going to get.

I have seen multiple references for a '69 GTX 440 4 speed 4.10 car that trapped 104, with a 13.7ish ET. It's been referenced in various coffee table type books, but I can't remember where I read it.

http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-bin/p...taldisplayed=50

This one had a 69 X with a 727 and 4.10s turning 13.7 @ 102.8, and a Charger 500 with a 727 and 3.55s turning 13.9 @ 101.4. That's a great website if you like reading through old road tests by the way!

It seems to me that most 440 B bodies with 3.23s and a torqueflite would trap 97-100 MPH, but that trap speed started gaining with more gear. I've seen tests with lower trap speeds, but honestly there doesn't seem to be that many. 98 MPH for a 440 4 barrel with 3.23s seems to be about par for the course.

I think the 6 pack setup is worth 2 MPH vs the stock intake and 4 barrel. It seems a good running 4 barrel car with 4.10s would trap 102-104, and a good running A12 car would trap 104-106. There are also plenty of tests from 70/71 B bodies with the 6 pack and a 727/3.23 combo and those seem to trap 99-101 MPH.

A friend bought a loaded '67 GTX convertible, 4 speed, brand new. He recalls running 14.60s-14.80s when it was stock, which he thought was pretty strong for a heavy convertible as it wasn't much off what hardtops were running.

when I was running my set-up I tried 3.23, 3.55, 3.91 gears. anything lower than a 3.23 didn't do anything. baffled by that the chassis dyno told the story. the engine was quitting around 4300rpm; went thru traps at 4300rpm with 3.23's, anything else was over gear. back in the day there was a dyno shop we'd go to and we all noticed that the engines/chassis combo's made far lower horsepower numbers at the wheels at much lower than max rated horsepower rpm. we were always baffled by this and didn't know how to explain it. I understand it all now. what an engine does on an engine dyno is one thing; what it does all hooked up to accessories/full exhaust/drivetrain is another.


all cam changes did was fatten up the torque curve with maybe a few more horses. I tried the stock magnum cam, comp cams 268/276 magnum replacement, 272/.455, and the engle 2330; engle performed best. the summit 6401 I later tried with the stock 4bbl set-up would have been very promising and may have been ideal for cast exhaust manifolds. the 6401 isn't made very well but does outperform it's price. howards has those lobes and could make a more accurate camshaft.

I have a 440 that was first built in the 80s, the short block was blueprinted and has 9.5 cr, the heads are 452 s with 2.14 /1.81 and have been pocket ported along with port matched. About five years ago I found all the parts for this motor cleaned them up and reassembled it and added a NOS 557 mech mopar cam I had and an old M1 and 850 Holley. There's nothing trick or hight dollar just trw pistons mopar rockers and MSD ign.

520 hp @ 5900
545 tq @ 4700

Everything else being equal, gear won't really change trap speed much. Maybe 0.5 mph, and it could go down.

I know gear didn't work on mine. cured me of the gear hype.

Okay, I found it. Looks I did this in 1989, and it was not corrected to std conditions.

In summary for 440 4 bbl cars:
1) Eleven 440 hp (67 through 70) track tests from various magazines.
2) All but one ran in the 14s, one a 15.2
3) All but two were <100 mph. The 69 'Cuda went 103.8 and a 70 Superbird went 103.7, but was tested on a 10°F day in Detroit with snow on the ground.
4) Uncorrected the Mopar "Drag Strip Dyno" horsepower had them from 252 to 360 hp (note, the DSD generates hp values about 20 hp higher than the Moroso calculator). The above referenced 70 Superbird had the 360, most of the rest were about 300 hp or lower.
5) Test weights were high due to extra test equipment and sometimes a second person. Range from 3780 to 4550. Only one was below 4000lb.

FWIW.

Also found these notes that you might find interesting.

This was in 1987 shortly after I purchased my 67 Charge. It had about 105,000 mile on it, and burned oil like crazy. For the motor, the only change from pure factory original was a refresh of the heads that included new replacement valves and new guides (hoping this would solve the oil consumption problem). It was AC equipped at the time and race weight was 4380 w/ driver. It was a cool spring day at Tri-State Dragway near Cincinnati OH (i.e. pretty good air). It ran 14.9, 14.8 and 14.6 at 93.1, 93.5, and 94.3 mph. My now wife said at the time that it smoked so bad she was a little embarrassed.

This from Ma Mopar. The math suggests that they think it is 35 hp difference between a 4 bbl and 6 bbl.

Thanks Russ for the info, I got to thinking about the one we dynoed , it had headers on it,that would explain the little bit more HP

I've seen 8 to 12 HP changing from a low deck six pack intake with stock type 440 vacuum carbs.(720 HP to a team G 4500 low deck intake with a Holley #9375 non HP 1050 CFM carb. that made 708 to 710 HP on my old 518 C.I. pump gas motor

I'd agree it won't change MUCH but maybe 1-2 MPH in some cases, and you can definitely have too much and slow down.

This article kind of shows that off pretty well, not huge gains from the gears, and 4.30s slowed the 440 car down (trap speed) until they put some taller tires on.

http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/members/A...num_440_1-7.pdf

This seemed to be very common to have multiple passengers and equipment, does anyone know why the heck they did that?

Look at pass 2 to pass 3, both cars. There is your comparison. Both cars picked up in the last pass. Money says a better cool down and better air is the reason. Maybe better driving too.

I've done this many times. Watched others do it. Raced against the same guys all the time that tried it (this is very interesting). The outcome was always the same. If there is any difference, it is likely because of some other factor.

Re MPH vs gearing, the difference between 3.55 and 4.10 when my car was in the 12s was negligible. It ran 12.4 at 112.7 with 3.55s and 12.2 at 112.7 with 4.10s. The MPH only changed when the tire & gear combination resulted in the engine over-reving, and then it dropped off by 2 to 3 MPH.

When I first put my 440 together to go into my satellite back in 1981, when I really had no clue as to what I was doing, it was a fairly stock build.
Block just got a skim cut, bored .040 over(no plate), I used the correct 2.030 c/h pistons, heads looked okay(to me at the time), so they just got cleaned really well, valves wire wheeled and lapped in, and new springs and retainers to go with the Crower Monarch 280H cam I bought for it.
280/280, 224/224-110, .460/.460
Original Torker intake and a Holley 650DP, exhaust manifolds hooked to a new stock replacement Maremont dual exhaust for a 383, because the 440 H pipe wasn’t available.
12” converter, 3.23’s, G50-15 Kelly Springfield SuperCharger tires....... best ET was a 14.04. I think it broke into the 99 mark, but I don’t remember the speed for sure....... other than I know it never broke 100mph.
Shows about 265hp on the morose chart.

I fell into the "need deep gears!" trap at an early age. I blame it on a Chrysler Power article that had a chart showing progressively faster e.t.'s with deeper gears. Went from 3.23's to 4.56's behind a solid cammed SB in my Cuda. Car ran identical e.t. and mph. ...but with a lot more rpm on the street! Promptly pulled the 4.56's and sold them a month later..

i found a 1967 hot rod magazine road test of a '67 r/t 375hp 440, auto, 3.23 rear; 14.91@93.16mph.

You can find a lot of the 1/4 mile times from various old magazines here:

http://roadtests.tripod.com

i'm going to include this test although it's not a 440 car. it's the 1968 hot rod magazines test of a '68 383 4spd 3.55 rear road runner. I remember gobbling up this article in early '68 and actually bought my first new car, '68 road runner, based on it. 14.74@98mph.

My dad has always told me that his '69 road runner (bone stock, but driven hard) w/ a 383/727 and 3.23 gears would run right beside every 440-4V car he ever raced. Two in particular were '70 cudas, both U code 440-4 cars.
Stock vs. stock, I don't doubt it. Start throwing parts at em though and cubes are king.

Makes sense when you consider both used the same cylinder head, cam, and similar induction. The 440 will just turn less rpm.

Good friend of mine had a drag car w/ a 440 w/ a decent solid FT cam, M1 intake, dominator, and stock 346 heads.
He wanted to upgrade to a 493" stroker, but didn't have the money for heads so we put together a good 493" bottom end, but reused the cam, heads, intake, etc.
It ran 7.30s in the 1/8 at 440".
It went 7.20s at 493". Converter was a lil tight w/ the 440, pretty sure the extra stroke just made better use of the tight converter.

I thought this was a pretty good read:

https://www.greenval.info/horsepower---fact-or-fiction

that's a very good read.

I remember back in the day we'd go to the track and run our muscle cars in pure stock. my road runner did 14.40's on a bad day and 14.20's on a good day. speeds were between 96-98mph. the gtx's and r/t's with the 440's were about 2-3 tenths quicker and a couple mph faster. traction was very difficult no matter the car. we probably ran the engines too high of rpm, over geared them, and whatever else dumb thing we could do; we simply didn't know any better. think what we could do back then knowing what we know now.

Good friend of mine had a drag car w/ a 440 w/ a decent solid FT cam, M1 intake, dominator, and stock 346 heads.
He wanted to upgrade to a 493" stroker, but didn't have the money for heads so we put together a good 493" bottom end, but reused the cam, heads, intake, etc.
It ran 7.30s in the 1/8 at 440".
It went 7.20s at 493". Converter was a lil tight w/ the 440, pretty sure the extra stroke just made better use of the tight converter. [/quote]

Had a good friend do the same thing with a 351. Stroked it to 393", got a new custom ground cam from Bullet but, kept everything else the same including the factory iron heads that he'd worked over himself years before.

I was at the track with him during it's maiden voyage with the new motor. He did not tell anyone until later that day what he'd done over the Winter. As far as we knew, he just freshened the motor. He was all over checking floats, timing and etc. He was frantic and not happy. Car went from 7.50 to 7.38 in the 1/8.

Everyone had the same thought, he simply reached the limit of what the heads could do. A set of AFR 205 aluminum heads later and the thing picked up almost a whole second in the 1/4.

Very good ! Thanks

i fell into the deep gear trap as well ! ran 5.38 gears for years in my charger. that was fine for NU-BE drag strip and stoplight to stoplight, but cruising on the highway was a drag [pun intended ! ] put in 3,91's and it ran the same, but without the super high rpm's.

Which TRW's did you use?

Same here.

In my 20's I went from 3.23's to 4.56's convinced that my solid cammed SB 'Cuda would be faster. It ran exactly the same at the dragstrip.

I guess that sort of backs up my combo>
stock 1968 440-6pk bottom end 9.5>9.8:1
260cfm 906's, .650" sft cam, 850DP on a Team G
530+fwhp@6600 trap
125mph in 3300lbs car.

My guess is L2355F

Here’s is a Chrysler Engineering dyno test from January 1968 on a GTX/RT 440 4 bbl, ran with full exhaust, air cleaner, vacuum advance, heated intake with riser open, using the production high performance camshaft, AVS carb.

I think some of the confusion on horsepower produced is due to SAE standards back in the day.
One rating is with accessories and exhaust, one without.

What are they talking about with the “V19” heads?

It says 10.2 compression. Is that a generic description....... or were the heads “adjusted” to provide an actual 10.2cr?

Looks like race gas?

Dont’t know what the reference is to V19 heads but all the dyno runs I have mention the same head.

My understanding is the motors were built in the Engine Room to factory specs as listed in the SAE reports.

As for fuel, several different engine tests that I have seen mention Pure Race. Puzzling because Sunoco 260 was good enough for a 12.5 to 1 Race Hemi at least up until the early 70’s.

My guess Pure was a known supplier and had the contract to supply fuel in bulk to the tanks in H.P.

That's such a cool find. Thanks for sharing that Transman.

this is pretty cool, but i can't read the numbers. can anyone tell me the numbers ? like power and what rpm?

Approx. 445 lbs. ft. and 335 hp NET - full exhaust, air cleaner on, 5 degrees initial production distributor with manifold heat, alternator and fan attached and being driven.

This isn’t a flogged engine but a standard production engine. No tricks.

does the chart say at what rpm the peaks occured?

Here is the lower portion of the chart.

The first 440 build I ever did 23 years ago, I walked into a local machine shop with a disassembled long block and a magazine article for a hi po 440 build, probably similar to the ones being talked about here. upper 9's to 1, big valves, some porting, MP cam etc.
The machine shop took a pen and x'd out everything they said would be a disaster in a 4x4 truck, I spent quite a bit of cash, took their advice, and basically ended up with a stock 8:1 motor .030 bigger than I took apart. Should of gone elsewhere, that shop is long out of business now.

thanks for this! looks like peak power rpm numbers coincide with advertised peak rpm numbers. actually i thought the true hp number might have been a little less than 335hp (maybe 325), but still very good info that supports reality. exhaust pressure numbers are very helpful. good stuff!

i got back into the mopar stuff in 1985 after a 10yr lull. went thru about the same thing in 1985. not sure anything has gotten better.

That skill of selecting a combination comes from racing/dyno work.

So the question should be when you walk in to a machine shop and ask them for advice on selecting a package - how much successful racing have they done and do they have a dyno. No racing experience or dyno, leave unless you know what you want done and don’t allow them to give you anything you didn’t ask for.

Enlarge the graphs and keep reading, there is a lot of good info on the charts. All for free, thanks to Ma Mopar

One of the first motors I built and dyno tune on a engine dyno was a 1962 413 M.W. motor for one of Boyd Coddington cars he had sold to one of his customers.
It was a original 1962 Dodge dart M.W. car that had a really bad worn out made up cross ram motor with a standard 413 C body short block that was already .060 over size with a lot of taper and really thin cylinder walls after sonic testing it
I found a 413 truck block and had it bore to 4.250 and had Ross make a set of low compression pistons so I ended up with 9.5 to 1 compression ratio. I had the original M.W. heads worked on replacing all the seats, guides and valves, the seat were really sunk I had Comp Cams make me a custom grind solid flat tappet cam and freshen the carbs and put the factory jetting in the carbs.
That motor ended up making 499 HP after a lot of testing and experimenting with valve lash, ignition timing and spark plug gap and heat range. I was really happy with those results
We made 32 pulls before changing the oil to Mobil 1 synthetic and lost 30 HP due to the intake gaskets weeping through them oil into the combustion chambers a little with the Valvoline straight 30 Wt. oil. I made one pull with the Mobil 1 and oiled all eight spark plugs
I fixed it by doubling up the intake gaskets and wasn't able to put it back on the dyno to find out how much difference that made

wasote=Transman]

That skill of selecting a combination comes from racing/dyno work.

So the question should be when you walk in to a machine shop and ask them for advice on selecting a package - how much successful racing have they done and do they have a dyno. No racing experience or dyno, leave unless you know what you want done and don’t allow them to give you anything you didn’t ask for. [/quote]
I think back then, compression seemed to be a dirty word. Locally the choice of machine work had a lot of rumor in it and people told me the racer shops were just good at blowing stuff up or the place I went to that was known as a place to get accurate machine work done. Their machine was good, they just didnt want to venture off of stock specs. They said if I went with 6 pack pistons it would ping on pump gas, they freaked out when I ported the heads with the mp template, and told me the heads would crack and leak. They wouldnt put 2.14 valves in , said the valves would hit the pistons. In the end the motor went together and still runs today, was just never at the potential it could have been. Im playing with the idea of putting Estreet heads on it and dropping 10cc off the chambers.

I think back then, compression seemed to be a dirty word. Locally the choice of machine work had a lot of rumor in it and people told me the racer shops were just good at blowing stuff up or the place I went to that was known as a place to get accurate machine work done. Their machine was good, they just didnt want to venture off of stock specs. They said if I went with 6 pack pistons it would ping on pump gas, they freaked out when I ported the heads with the mp template, and told me the heads would crack and leak. They wouldnt put 2.14 valves in , said the valves would hit the pistons. In the end the motor went together and still runs today, was just never at the potential it could have been. Im playing with the idea of putting Estreet heads on it and dropping 10cc off the chambers. [/quote]

Sorry, I made it sound easier than it is - it depends on locality, etc. Here in my area going back the last 50 + years we had an abundance of good shops and of course some not so good but those were few. And we had a lot of successful racers in the area so we all fed the good machine shops and didn’t have to ask any questions.

Being where you are I would imagine you don’t have many shops to choose from so that makes things much more difficult for you.

Used to be a guy that would come across the border from Windsor with his car, switched the motor for a cleaned up junk yard motor and he would leave his motor to be built. Would come back another day and do the switch again. All because he got stung several times in Windsor.

I dynod my bone stock 74' 440 with stock exhaust manifolds and pipes. The true compression was 7.8-1. It made a stump pulling 294hp and 408 ftlbs.

Who would ever have thought that a post about 80's and 90's technology would be the second or third most popular post on the first page of Moparts......7,100 views....lol

Well...... it does have two favorite items in the article.
Iron heads and purple shaft cams.

Probably because of the demographics of this forum, we were all there in that time period, trying to get the same kind of motor, corralled in by the limited support for the engine and the brand at that time.. I would sit with the mopar engines book and the DC catalog, make a list, phone the dealer and have my dreams crushed by pricing and availability. Then when there was any kind of mopar build in any mag, it was exciting to see what parts they used and what power they made, in hopes there was new support on the horizon, which usually there wasn't but a mag had a picked up a project car and attempted a build.

Keywords to increase views (an experiment to see what happens to the numbers)

Direct Connection
Mopar Performance
Pinion Snubber
Slapper Bars
Pinion Angle
J converter
M1
Torker
TM7
TM6
Tunnel Ram

I just scored a set of blue anodized Direct Connection valve covers for my '68 GTS. It has a cable drive tach and sounds like the old .533 juice or .557 solid cams : D

It's not a record setting pound on your chest all over yellow bullet combination. It's old school nostalgic fun for me. Back when things were simple and Sunoco 110 was like $2.75 a gallon out of the pump.

For me, it seems that the mid 70’s hot tip was still the Racer Brown SSH-25 or 44 hydraulic cams but the Purple Shaft cams of similar lift were gaining in popularity.

The GK cams like the A5H288B were kicka$$ cams too.

Had a Mini Express in my SS car in 1973, then went to the GK roller late that year and all of 74.

It’s a shame GK closed shop, Tewles and Brookshire where up there in talent equal to Crane and the others.

I'm still running an SSH-44.

PAW
B1
Thin wall
6 pack rods
3/4 race
full race

800 views added overnight. Success or failure? You be the judge

I think the answer to that is YES lol

is that 7944 votes for iron heads and purple cam?

It’s kinda funny and pathetic at the same time reading this and thinking back. The funny part is Direct Connection gave us the Bible on running anything from 8’s-14’s with junk parts. Lots of us were running high 9’s to low 10’s with factory heads, stock cranks, and TRW or Sealed Power heavy weight pistons with 2800-3200 pound cars and Super Stock springs. Now with stroker engines, cnc’d heads, lite-weight pistons, better tires, better suspensions, better traction at tracks, etc very few an put the total package to run fast at the track. Impressive DYNO numbers and somewhat pathetic track times. I see guys weekly that are t happy with their performance so instead of working to fix it throw a NOS kit on it. Laugh if you want at the old school ways but I know they had some pretty smart guys putting these packages together. Anyone look looking for those old cams may find them on their Dads parts shelves. I know I still have mine.

I love the fact that the technology for our stuff is ancient, personally. I love it even better when you go to a bracket race and they are still getting the job done, well in fact, and reliably.

I resemble that remark

And yes, there is a .620 purple shaft in the basement just in case anyone wants one.

I am porting a set of speedmaster heads for my son in Colorado and will be checking a couple purple shaft cams I have. I’m almost positive I have a 501 cam that they recommended for four speeds but hopefully have a 484 lift cam. He purchased a 340 so that would work perfect in the 1974 duster he is rebuilding. He just bought a J convertor while he was home from a buddy of mine. I’m trying to help as much as I can but I’m 2400 miles away.

You guys are speaking my lingo, John. This is the first thread I've seen where I knew what anyone was talking about.....

Are the Dominion machines adding views at 3AM?

I remember in the 80s and 90s all the magazine builds were 350 chevy. Even for a mild build the thing would get gold roller tip rocker arms. On the rare occasion a magazine did a mopar it got roller tip rockers when stamped steel would have been perfect. Applying that Hot Rod and Car Craft Chevy mentality to mopars. A set of Crane adjustable rocker arms for a chevy in 1988 was like $90. A set of Harland Sharps for a mopar was $350 plus but they still threw them on. Thats why the mopar magaazine builds that used OEM parts were so appealing. Real world.

Yeah, this thread has been fun to read and very familiar, bought my GTX in 1975 bone stock. With G60 14s and my granny shifting it ran a 15.20, it was my daily driver, first thing my "expert" buddy said was you need headers and a 4.56 gear in that thing...with headers, purple hornies, 7" cheater slicks and better shifting I managed to get into the low 14s. The funny/scary thing about this read is how many of these old parts I still have on my shelves

First time i might agree with you...lol In the early 90s i had a .030 over 440. lightly ported 906's .509 hyd cam, stock pushrods and rockers. Strip dominator and propart headers. that thing is shifted low enough LOL went 11.90's all day long. A plate with an .073 jet (175ish HP) went 10.40's. Yea it was real basic a lot of stock parts, and yea it was relatively fast back then

An I call you buddy now or do I have to wait for a second date. Lol 😂

Well I was one of those that hit mine with a 175hp kit cos I wanted to run a 9 which was my goal in 1990. Going from a 10.71 NA to 9's was out of my range money wise, I had fairly good 906's 260cfm, and that 290@.050 sft cam but a mere 9.5>9.7:1, and an850DP on a crap team G, couldn't afford pistons, and a rebuild, already had a 4800 stall and 4.88's, there was prob 1>2 10ths in the chassis but not 8 10ths....motor ran real good NA...on the N20 9 sec pass it trapped@7400 and I didn't wanna do that again with 6pk rods/pistons, that was 2000gms per pot swinging about in there and it was the same with the 340 car 12.4's>11.01, and a 10 sec340 car was the goal which didn't exist back then.

Could it be?

Probably not

That car has been on jackstands for 25 years.

Pics

I can offer this up to add to the fray. In 1990 I drove my 1967 GTX from CT to Englishtown and ran it. Typical early June weekend, about 80-85 degrees, not bad humidity. It ran almost exactly what some magazines from 1966-67 said it would: 15.29 @ 95.8 mph. No spin off the line. Here’s the drivetrain lowdown:

Original 67 440 c code hp, all original carb(625 abs), single point, stock intake,dual snorkel air cleaner(used on the run), heads(stock steel shim head gaskets), stock manifolds, year one repro exhaust with sonic turbo mufflers(non stock) out through the stock tips, AT, stk converter, stk driveshaft, 3.23 SG, 225/70/15 Goodyear eagle GT’s all around on stock steel rims. Ps,pb, etc all stock engine accessories.
My dad and I took the engine apart and simply honed, cleaned and re-ringed the stock pistons. New bearings. The crank, rods, pistons, cam, lifters, pushrods (the ones that tapered near the lifters, remember those?), rocker arms, etc were all reused, all factory components.

For whatever it’s worth. Thanks for the wonderful memory. And my old notes on a withered paper!

A friend of the current owner just told me the other day after he sent me this picture. The friend had asked me if I knew all the guys in the pics.
All but one.

That engine doesn't look like it is going to fit in that car! Those headers are crazy.

The 1967 and earlier RB and B motor had different lifter cups size and heights in the lifters, 1/4 inch instead of the later larger 5/16 cups and balls on the pushrods so the pushrod ends and pushrod lengths are different also, I found that out the hard way back in the early 1970s

Back when my son (Dizuster here) was in High School.he traded cutting lawns for a Duster. 318 short block, 360 heads and intake, TQ, The only "hot rod" parts were a .484 purple shaft , headers, 2 1/2 exhaust. Wire wheeled and drill lapped the valves. He and buddy swapped it into a 71 Dart . The stock 727 converter and cam kept it from spinning the G60×14s. 4.10 gear corked up. Him and buddy made a million passes in it. Ran 14.0@100 .
Put a lot of bigger motor stuff to shame. Heck it was faster than my bone stock 383 Dart GTS 4 speed convertible (3.23 open, 14.7@95)
Doug