Pro stock tech

I wanted to start this so I can show Mopar what a mistake they are making. They think nobody likes pro stock. I know that is not true. I see so many Mopar pro stock fans at every race thanking me for sticking with it. So I will answer any questions you got on the engine,trans, clutch & setup.

I will try and answer any questions as quickly as possible.

Could you post as many revealing engine pictures that wouldn't give up too many secrets?

Most of us here don't get to see much from that level of racing.

Alan, can you give us some details on cam and valve train? As a WAG i would assume rocker ratios are very high, (1.9? 2.0?) lift is 1.1 plus, duration is somewhat shorter than we think?

Welcome!! By the way!

pictures probably not but any questions you have I will do my best to answer.

pictures probably not but any questions you have I will do my best to answer. my rockers that I have run the best are 1.85 I'm working on some 1.925 and 1.95 lobes it does look promising but nothing that I'm ready to race with. 278 intake seems to be the best right now for me.

Whats the bore and stroke of a typical pro stock engine?

Do you have a minimum bob weight you need to have?

Thanks for joining the forum!

Alan, if NHRA allowed carbs or fuel injection would you go back to carbs?

Thanks, Justin

Alan,

Thanks for taking the time to post.

I am guessing rear end gears are changed often depending on weather and track conditions but what would be a typical range of rear gear ratios?

Very much different for Denver?

Thanks,
Bill

most of the time we run a 5.43. this week in Vegas a 5.50. in mine shaft air a 5.38. trans gear we change more often.

fuel injection I like the tuning part of it.

my bore is 4.733 and my stroke is 3.55. I would like to try a 4.75 bore combo but my budget just isn't going let me.i think alot of teams run 4.75 bore motors.

Nice of you to post here Alan! We pushed hard on the voting for you! Good luck and thank you for carrying on the Mopar banner! We will be pulling for ya!

I run steel rods so we aren't close to the min. Bob wt rule.

Alan,
Thanks for posting and answering questions.
Good Luck

Thanks for the info Alan - good stuff!

I hope you do well and keep up the good fight!

What kind of stall speed do you look for on a good or bad track

I hear guys talk about the maintenance requirements for a good Top Sportsman combination. Can you gives us some insight on the maintenance routine at the PS level? Number of runs on a freshen, disassembly for inspection, piston/rod replacement, valve springs, etc?

Do you have one or two race day engines that are in a constant state of R&D or mule motors to do R&D on with that info being incorporated in the good engines?

Do you do your own chassis tuning or do you have "people"? Is there constant tweaking according to the track, gear ratios, etc., or is it once it's sorted, it's just a matter of shock adjustments, clutch adjustments, etc.?

we run a 5 speed liberty so stall speed isn't something we are not concern with.

the maintenance isn't as bad as you would think. As far as valve springs we can get 20 Dyno pulls on the intake Springs and 8 to 10 runs down the track. We take the motor apart as much as we can just because we're always trying to look at it as much as possible. The Pistons usually last around 50 passes and the rods last hundreds of passes.
I have two good engines one I like to run more than the other. But unfortunately last Friday dropped a valve on the dyno so I'll be running the backup engine for the next two races.
As far as the chassis this year I have taken that on as far as last year other people did help me. But I felt I needed to do everything myself to save cost as much as possible to race as long as I possibly could. I make all the gear selecting changes and calls myself and also I service the clutch in between each round.

I'm a little shocked that you run steel rods...I would have thought aluminum would have free'd up a little hp...is this more of a longevity issue?

Allan you just keep doing what your doing!I have been a fan of Mopar Prostock "Underdog"racers and without doing a spread sheet id say after your last qualifying your as close to those other cars than everybody thats ever tried Matt Hartford etc.
If you can post a vid of any motor on the dyno you'll get a heap more followers,i had a vid of a B/D engine on the dyno in texas and it blew minds with the noise and revs and it was under 10,500 rpm😆and if i remember it was around the 1370hp mark and it was a 466inch iirc.Where can i get some t shirts and stickers?

[/quote]
I'm a little shocked that you run steel rods...I would have thought aluminum would have free'd up a little hp...is this more of a longevity issue? [/quote]
. You can get tolerances a lot closer with the steel rod..

Is anyone re-thinking the bore/stroke combo to make power below the 10.5K limit? Do you shift at or near the limiter? Does it hit the limit in the lights?
I know I got limiter on the brain but it just seems as if all the development to this point was to rev the engine higher to make more power??? It also seems as if the current combo's are not optimized for max effort below 10.5K?
Thanks Alan! This is cool!

They have been running steel rods for years now. They is an interesting topic on YellowBullet that Nick Ferri chimes in on quite often, it's in the Normally Aspirated engine section

Instead of stall speed I should have said launch RPM

thanks for the kind words. https dyno pull ://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10210979195216705&id=1258826168 that a link to a Dyno pull I hope that works
You can get my t-shirt from nitrofishracing.com

like i said before I think the best combo is 4.750 bore 3.52 stroke but I can't spend the money to find out unfortunately.
We shift at 10500 the limiter doesn't hit until 10575. That's ideal if I do my job. In Q4 in Gainesville I pulled it out at 10200 in 2 gear than I shifted 3 gear low two and that just killed the 330 number 2.776. you have to be perfect when you don't have big power.
We make peak hp at 10000 I think that is a good spot for me.

we adjust that between 6600 to 7200 depending on the track condition. I like higher than lower because it helps the rt times

If someone can tell me how to upload a picture. I have a racepak run on my phone.

I would be interested to know valve sizes and some head flow numbers if you can. Thanks for posting Alan.

we have a 2.600 intake 1.880 exhaust. flow numbers don't matter. Port size is more important.

Interesting.

Pics...Full Reply Screen, file manager, upload has to be 2MB or less. Go get 'em in Vegas!

Alan,
how big of a role does weather have on the fuel injection system as far as making between round changes or is that compensated for by the computer like or similar to regular automotive fuel injection systems.

We use a calculation off of the weather to make an adjustment to our map most of the time it's less than 1% adjustment round to round.

Hi Alan,

Just saying hi,long time, no chat....lol

and the notes are interesting. I dont want to know the actual max HP numbers, but what is the spread between where you are at now, and how much more power you need to make a top 10 type run? Obviously MPH is the tell all, but seems your able to stay respectable with some other chassis/clutch/gearing changes etc. Reminds me of when Allen and team struggled with less, but stayed close with hard work and a little creativity.

I need probably 20-25 more. but I think I can run less than 1 mph off the fastest car with what I got now.

Its good to see a Mopar still out there competing, ProStock has always been my favorite class. How is the parts situation? I'm ordering a shirt or two, thanks for the post, and hope luck goes your way, Thanks Glenn

I have some early R/D heads and couple of manifolds and the block that won at denver for the first new hemi win,I'm trying to work out how to post some pics?

Nah no pics yet i'll have to go see my 9 yr old neice,lol

Awesome information Alan! In 30+ years of following NHRA I don't think I've heard someone so willing to share information in a Pro class, really interesting info and thanks for coming on Moparts. Keep flying the flag, we'll keep rooting for you!!

Also heard your recent interview on WFO radio, good job. (other members, you should check it out if you haven't already)

This is one of the most interesting threads in Moparts history. Please keep it up. I have always been a fan of Mopar pro stock racing and I go WAY back to the original Ramchargers team. Good luck at the 4 wides this weekend. We'll actually be there in our BAE hemi powered Mustang making some Big Tire Grudge hits on Friday. Hopefully I'll have some time to stop by your pit.

I know you're an engine guy, I try to pay attention to what's going on behind the flywheel.

I've been told that teams will cut certain proprietary bars out their old cars before selling them to prevent anyone from knowing their particular configuration. Truth or BS? How much are teams involved in the design of the chassis? Do they have they're own requirements/configurations that they like? Or do they rely on the builder to provide what's best? Do you use a certain amount of flex by design in the chassis or do you try to make it stiff and use suspension adjustments and components for desired changes and control? Between testing and racing, I expect these cars get a lot more laps than people may realize? How many runs will you typically get on a car before it's considered used up and sold?

I'm looking at upgrading my M/S 3" driveshaft. I have heard from some that the C/F driveshafts have helped with et. Have you found the same results? I wasn't sure how much it would help since the rotational mass is on such a small diameter.

Thanks Al,curious to know an approximate idea of the lift in a prostock motor and are the cams 70mm ?

Alan does Roy J offer any advice on running the hemi motor

I would say maybe years back somebody like WJ or bob Glidden might cut bars out but nobody would these days. I now Jason and Greg's cars probably have thousands of runs on them. Some teams might have their own way of building a car but mostly Jerry Haas does every car basically the same and they work.

2 years back when I came out with the fuel injection Allen helped a little bit but as far as Roy helping with the engine no.If you rely on somebody else you will never figure it out
.

Are cam is a 78 mm clamshell and its 1.200 in lift.

I don't know of anybody in Pro Stock that runs a carbon fiber driveshaft. Pretty much every driveshaft I've ever seen here is a Mark Williams aluminum driveshaft.

What's your opinion of 4-wide?

Not sure if you want to answer this question....... can I ask how much weight is usually on the back tires, and if the left rear is much more than the right rear?

Thanks, Manny

Another question.... what head and neck restraint do you prefer?

Manny

1100 on the rear wheels. I haven't had it on scales for a while so I don't know how much is on each wheel. As far as a Hans I use a rage 3 I'm not even sure if they make that anymore it's actually molded into my seat so I don't even know its back there which I like.

the 4wide seems a little confusing to watch but I don't mind it.

Came by while you were at driver introduction and talked to your dad for awhile..he showed me pictures of your 69 charger his 69 RR...I was passing out ET slips at the time booth for 3 days...LOL

Some people think that job is easy...try it someday at a national event....lol

Thanks for starting this thread. I look forward to following it and learning about your race program. Good to know there is still a Mopar presence competing.

Vegas recap
Q1 we ran the back up engine this weekend because I broke the race Motor on the Dyno last week. So we had no tune up for the motor with the manifold that we run now. We maybe had 4 cylinders misfiring all the way down the track and it showed 7.06 at 196
Q2 I made a lot of adjustment's to the fuel tune up and the engine came to live and blew the tires off. Way to much clutch. The bad part about it is still couldn't work too much on the fuel because we only went one second into the Run before I lifted. So not a lot of o2 information.
Q3 we changed one of the discs in the clutch to a less aggressive disc just because the air was so bad almost 5000 feet. we only had 4 grams of counter weight. Got down ok still had some cylinders misfiring. Still had too much clutch on it but went 6.84 with some decent speed at almost 203.
Q4 made more adjustments to the fuel took more clutch out. It left okay but in the meantime the racepak v-net cable disconnected and I had no shift lights and no O2's. I bounced it off the rev limiter really bad in first gear shifted hit it again and second gear realize that I didn't have any shift lights then shifted it by ear into 4th and into 5th and went 6.86 at 202. I didn't think that was that bad of a pass because of the amount of time that I was on the rev limiter. also i didn't have no O2's because of the vnet cable disconnecting so couldn't make any more adjustments to the fuel for E1.
E1 the air was much better so I added 1.7 % to the fuel map for the weather change. I added a 1/4 turn of base to the clutch and 3 grams. I got put in lane 1 I never got a test hit in that lane because of the k&n challenge. We left higher on Sunday 7200 the car drove hard left. I had to lift for .3 seconds and I hit the chip in second gear and third gear. hard to watch for the shift light when you are trying to keep the car off the guardrail. Got it straight gas to the floor and still went a 6.75 at 204.7 all over the chip at the finish line. I'm pretty sure with all the things wrong with that pass it had a 6.69 in it. Not bad for the back up engine.
With all the things that went wrong this weekend I'm still pretty excited to head to Houston.

I was in vegas for the race. That 6:75 pass looked to me to be a 7:00 watching live with the car moving around. I could not believe the 6:75 came up on the replay monitor. It had enough steam for 6:6x for sure.
I think even the track announcer mentioned how fast of a run it was considering how much the car moved around.

Thanks for the info. We watch the posted info, MPH, 60s and short times and can only assume what might be occurring. This helps connect the dots.

We are discussing plug gap with the coils and ecu you are using. Can you divulge the plug gap you run and dwell times?

.030 on the Gap and 5.0 on the dwell.

Rod length, compression height, rod ratio can be adjusted for a specific stroke and deck height. Are these parameters changed or adjusted for different situations or engine design, component weights, etc., or is there a set combination that has been determined to work best in these engines?

8.800 deck is pretty much standard for all the teams that I know of.

Is longest rod, shortest compression height that fits, a standard combination?

yes are CH is under I inch and we run a 6 inch rod.

Very interesting, thanks for all the updates and information.

Good luck in Houston!

Exhaust systems. Is there much time spent testing different configurations? Is a program like Pipemax or the Burns deal used or is there enough real world experience that the header/collector are pretty much a standard deal? 2 steps/3 steps used? Typical diameters and primary lengths?

with my budget I can't afford to work on headers. It is on my to-do list lol. We run tri y headers.

Other than the expected things; engine, input shaft, driveshaft RPM, O2s, G-force, what else is monitored with the data recorder on these cars?

engine vacuum, 3 ride height sensors, fuel flow, 4 shock sensors,wheelie bar load sensor, and tps. I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple.

For what it's worth I'm often around WJ and Kurt

I asked him recently who to vote for in the K+N deal, and he said without provocation, you. He was very complimentary of your effort as a racer, and as a person. Anybody that's around Wj much knows his compliments are rare, and served in small doses lol.

Which are "nice to know" information and which are "can't do without"? Or is all of it important to tuning during to course of an event?

it's pretty cool that he even knows my name.

every sensor is important but as a engine builder I usually look at the vacuum first after a run. It gives me a look at how good the motor is sealed up.

Keep up the hard work Alan!

Thank you Alan, & Welcome to my home town Houston, good luck !!!!

I will be cheering for Alan at home in Oklahoma watching on All Access, but those of you at the Houston race should go by and personally thank Alan for taking the time to share information with us at Moparts.

Bill Lamb

Especially for guys who drive Jeeps.

I just wanted to say thanks for sharing....

Prostock has been, and probably always will be, my favorite class. Ever since I was a little kid, I knew I wanted to race in prostock. And specifically, in a Mopar. As time went by, I learned my way around some friends race cars and eventually was old enough to get my own....Been racing Mopars ever since. Mind you not prostock, just brackets and what ever the budget allowed for. Had plenty of cars over the years, but usually Cuda's....

I remember trying to learn everything there was to know about the secretive prostock group...Even got to hang out in the pits with a few of the Mopar prostocks at National trails a few times. I always loved seeing the Mopars kick ass.

Always appreciate it when racers share there stories...I still race, and yes, its usually in a Cuda or a Duster....And as you do, I wish there was more support for racers and manufacturers....Seems like this hobby is going to go thru a big change soon....

Keep up the good work Alan, and maybe we will bump into you one of these days.

One of the topics of conversation is the availability (or lack of it) of good blocks and to a lesser degree, good heads.

Is the availability of the pieces you use a potential problem or is there plenty of that stuff around now that you're the last guy standing? Is anyone using the basic components for anything other than Pro Stock or are they pretty much built for that application?

I would be interested to know what a Pro Stock engine might have for cranking compression....

Also how many runs before the valve job would need attention typically?

Thank you!

How much HP are you down compared to the top 5 I see your down almost 5 mph to the top cars

[quote=340man4ever]I would be interested to know what a Pro Stock engine might have for cranking compression....

Also how many runs before the valve job would need attention typically?
Not Pro Stock but comp eleminator in the 90's and it was 15 runs and it motor out for a freshen up.But it was the rings that were the issue.May have changed now with those fancy ring packs that are out there.

Pro stock is the space program of drag racing

Alan, do you guys run a timing curve on your ignition? Obviously, I'm not talking about a normal idle to 2,500 rpm curve. I was wondering if the ignition timing is varied on upper rpm levels (from launch rpm to shift point) or is piston speed at a point that it doesn't change much.