72 duster

hey guys: We didn't find the NSS car we were looking for this year.
However, we just fell into a decent little 72 duster that has already been mini tubbed well so- guess its an A body for us this year, I'm not complaining about a nice Duster- grin.

Ok, help me out with as much real data as possible as I need to move rather quickly and shop is busy so- need to do things as linear as possible.

Engine- 511, engine dyno at 665 hp, 690 tq corrected numbers with a 4150 flange holly that we set up for street/strip, we may change that for a strip only car but- lets just use those numbers.

This will be a 727 car ( as of this writing) , will get with converter companies on the converter but suggestions do matter- what companies have you had good service with/good to work with etc.

Rear suspension: Spring hangers are moved in but- not a big cal trac guy on these- front spring section seems too short.

Looks like ladder bars vs 4 link , know ya'll hate those discussions but I really don't want to wade through miles of back posts to look for data.
Please give me some honest input - want to get build plan done/parts ordered.

Roll bar- at 600+ hp, built 727, right converter 3200-3300 lbs :
just an 8 point bar or do i need to go ahead and do a 10 point- this car is stripped down, will 4 corner it next week but think those weights will be close with 511/727.

Front suspension/ clearances: rebuild with good bushings /adjustable shocks etc or just slide an after market coil over /tubular K and be done?

We will likely just motor plate the car to make either easier.

fwiw to save your time/ efforts: We will be using good multi-adjustable shocks on both ends though am interested in folks preferences ( Viking, CE/Strange etc), frame connectors/ torque boxes etc- normal stuff.

Not trying to reinvent the wheel, just build a stable/safe/fast/consistent race car.
This won't see the street .

Thanks ahead of time for any help/ suggestions.

Blessings all,

Rusty

Fastest leaf spring car in the country still has the stock A body front segment cal type springs

Look over my thread on the Duster that I'm building. Sounds very close to what I'm doing.

Thanks, will check on that.
I wasn't aware he was using stock locations.

Thanks, Andy- will do.

Mine at 3160 with driver, 600hp and 540tq goes 10.1’s so I’d go straight for the 8.50 cage unless you plan to run a throttle stop. Caltracs with stock length front segments have been inconsistent in my experience - good shocks are a must, especially if you’re running drag radials.

As for the front suspension - I’d work to free up the stock parts, make sure you have 5” of travel and run it. Maybe tube upper control arms and strut bar. For sure put good front disks on it. I’m happy to share the details of my build - feel free to PM me anytime.

Sounds like a fun build - keep us posted!

Digby's data is surely important/valuable but need more of it- grin.
Lot of chassis work done on that car- not sure how they are getting the IC needed, no doubt they are though!!

thanks, Humpty- will pm so we can communicate.
You're a blessing.

Mount the motor as far back as possible, make sure the valve cover will come off okay on the passenger side. I elongated the trans mount enough to slide my motor back right at a little over a full inch on my 1971 Duster, it was 50.7% weight on the front wheels, 49.3 % on the rear, with me in it full of fuel in the stock gas tank
I also slid the rear end forward right at one inch also, along with stretching the rear wheel wells five inches, two inch to the rear and three inches forward
I use a set of ladder bars and coil overs with a diagonal link for street use, Strange double adjustable 15.5 inches extended with a set of 150 Lbs. springs, a 130 LB set might have worked as well or better but I started of with 175 Lbs. springs do to the car being street and weighing 3450Lbs. with me in it full of fuel and like the 150 lbs enough to not experiment any more. It had a set of Comp Engr. 90-10 shocks on the front to start with and I ended up switching to a set of Koni SPA to make the car faster in the 60 fts.
I ran M/T ET Street 315x60x15 Radials(10 inch wide wheels) on the good tracks and 13x30x15 ET Street bias ply(12 inch wide whels) on the street and slippery tracks and later a used set of M/T 31x10.5x15 W slicks on the 10 inch wide wheels, they wouldn't fit my car on the 12 inch wide wheels which worked very well at the track also
Have fun, enjoy the torque and HP of the BB Stroker

Thanks, Cab.

I'm sure we will enjoy engine.
Its a trick flow headed build based on Andy's work and Dwayne's cam choices.
we actually built it for a 72 charger street car/pro touring deal but- decided we might as well run it this year as Charger build is getting into some extended time - doing "pretty stuff" type things.

Was wondering how far back we might get using Andy's motor plate set up.

The AR Engr. motor plate doesn't limit the rear movement, the firewall, headers and tranny mounts do

Well let's see...

ATI has some new stuff out, they and Coan are doing some Mopar stuff now that the class guys are using. Their technology is current. I would look at them.

Given the choice between a ladder bar and 4-link, given the combination and if this thing is going to be backhalfed and/or Super Stock legal, I would put a good 4-link in it with an anti-roll bar. I would also put a good cage in it with plenty of support, good frame connectors and also bars out to the motor plate. These cars are flimsy at the firewall. A full cage will allow you to use 1.625 tubing and I would do it in Moly. You will never outgrow it done this way, unless you go quicker than 8.50. If you're ever going there, then it's 25.5. I would fudge the rear axle forward some while doing all of this.

Front suspension depends on class and budget. If you can put a tubular deal with a rack in it, I say go for it. The coilovers should be supported by the front cage structure. Otherwise, a legal Super Stock type set up with fresh parts.

Use the best shocks you can afford on all 4 corners. Penskes and Santuffs are top shelf. JRi has really nice stuff with a variety of levels of sophistication and price. We've had good luck with AFCOs Big Guns on some really harsh applications and Strange are also good. I would have whoever is making the shock set them up for your combination or have Menscer or someone like that set them up.

Do everything with an eye towards cutting weight.

I have been 5.46 at 130.79 mph .
Stock front segment on the cals.
Menscer did my rear shocks .
Tires are a 28x10.5 stiff side wall slick .
Front suspension is stock with afco DAs
This year with some changes we made we should be in the 20s if not faster

hahaha- well duh!
I know that Cab.
I'm not worth a flip at writing!
Grin

thanks CM.

Any pictures of the car

No pics yet , will post a few next week.

Thanks

Was going to put in my 2 cents but CMcAllister covered what I had to say. Do what he says and you can't go wrong.

Cm: If you were going to go tubular up front, who would you suggest?

Since a decision was made to race this year instead of just supporting the locals, Time is a real factor for me in counting costs .

Secondly : do you or anyone here have a suggestion on complete front end rebuild kits for this car, with good parts/ bushings should we decide to go that west.

Thirdly : I have an opportunity to pick up a built Dana with Wilwoods / Strange axles/ Strange billet cover/ 4:56 spool that’s set up for 4 link - 2200 bucks.
Came out of a tube chassis 8:50 duster that took a bad turn.
Advantage Other than being a Dana is it’s set up and I don’t think I can build an 8.75 with cal’s / monoleaf / spool / gear / brakes any cheaper really .

Thoughts?

Car isn’t too bad- cutting trunk out Thursday as I’m at engine dyno tomorrow .
Danger if she isn’t ugly though- originally yellow, repainted brown with remnants of an old snakeskin half top- whew!
Thankfully getting the ugly off is easy and the least of my concerns.
Car will see frame machine early Thursday just to make sure it’s not twisted somewhere we aren’t aware of- then we start pulling her down.

Thanks for your help - just trying to get a decent parts list in place and things ordered and on the way.


Again- many thanks to you and everyone that’s been helping.

Will post some pics as soon as we can- just hammered and- I have to figure out how to post pics on here.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2410575/1.html

^^^As for the picture posting part read this very helpful.^^^

Thanks!

I'm lazy... and I like things easy to work on. Tube K, rack steering, coil overs were one of my better mods. Plenty of room for oil pans, no torsion bars getting in the way of headers, no hassle over getting engine diaper to fit. My chassis shop of choice made my set up, but there are plenty of them out there now that can show up on your porch in a box. We're not terribly serious about this stuff, but we've ran ladder bars on our last two rides. Found they work better than leaves, and once we set corner weights and ride height, we pretty much never touch them. And speaking of lazy, the two piece trans tunnel floor was a really nice addition as well. That also came about as we do run a 727 and the CSR shield wouldn't fit.

btw a nice front end set up delivered to your door: look up Tory Shellehamer on FB. Makes some nice stuff.

Honestly, the only one I have any experience with is the Alterkation. We used those in a restomod deal and they seem to be fine. Car drove great with that and a 4 bar in the rear. I'm sure others have had experience with other units.

There are places that do suspension kits or you can probably source it from NAPA or somewhere. I try to avoid Chinese stuff, but that's hard to do these days. If I were replacing stock stuff, I would probably go on and convert it to '73 and up parts.

If I were building a new car, I would not use a D60 if it were free, unless it were a Stocker and had to be that or a 8.75. Too many negatives. But, ignoring my preference for the 9" - I've seen a lot of cars built where a used rear, that someone pick up cheap, was used and the car was built to the rear, rather than the other way around. They usually end up being a mess - built in a driveway somewhere and not close to being right, brackets are junk, driveshafts run crooked, wheel spacers needed, wheels not in the same place one side to the other or they have to use some queer wheel offset, 4 link is a mess and no way to get the bars in right, etc.

I wouldn't consider it without close inspection and being satisfied that it exactly fits my needs - who built it and was it done correctly; is it straight, square and not bent; where is the pinion offset; how wide is it; what is the C-C of the 4 link brackets; are the brackets 20 years old with an obsolete geometry; etc.? If the car has to be substantially compromised to use it, it's not worth it if it's free.

This is not rocket science to be sure. Lots of proven combos to do what you are trying to do. You need to make a decision on exactly what you want to do with the car. Is this a temporary deal just to have something to race for now. Id its the latter then the KISS principle seems to be a good way to go. You are not making a lot of HP and just about any rear suspension can EASILY handle it. If this is a temporary race car, which is kind of what I'm getting here they why go extravagant. Just fix what needs to be addressed to make the car safe and legal to run. Caltracs are MORE than up to the task of making the car work easily. Why reinvent the wheel or invest a lot of money in something that is going to scratch a temporary itch while you chase/build the NSS car. Seems to me the money is better saved for what your real end goal is. Just make what you have safe and legal go racing and learn.

Geez. I had to go back and read the OP. Didn't catch this was a toy just for this year. Sure don't want to tackle a big project and expect to have it up and running early this season. Or even a small one. I'd be looking for something done, plug a motor in it and go. Always less than building as well.

Thanks all:
I think we will just use the Cal Tracks or, Ladder bars with the narrowed 8.75 that’s already narrowed for the car.
Just back-brace it / set it up and go.
Have good axles already and it matches rub width etc.

Still thinking on the front .

Everything else is just about getting to work.
May run the car a couple year- dusters are fun cars, nice weight .

Just got back from a dyno day- always tired afterwards, not quite sure why a full day at engine dyno is so draining but- for me it is.

Perhaps a few pics of this old car tomorrow .

Thanks again to all for your help.

Be careful putting a brace on that housing. I will bend if not done correctly.

I had a 72 340 Duster that I would love to have back. They are near and dear to my heart.

We will Cm.
Have a really good reared man here who has done many with no failures .

Thanks

I have had a couple Dusters over the years. While maybe not the most sex appeal of the available choices but no doubt they make great racecars. This was one of the ones I have owned over the years. Pretty simple ladder bar car with an iron headed 470" motor that went 9.60's

subframe connectors /body stiffening- US car tools weld in pieces work well?

I'm guilty as charged also... I certainly wouldn't have done some of the things I mentioned on a short term project. I have an S60 in the car, and wish we'd gone 9" based.

...and to me "racecar" usually means trans brake, and 8.75 doesn't fit into the equation at all...

What valve bodies are generally best on 727.

No, not a transbrake car.

Perhaps I should have said a Bracket car.

Doing the work isn’t a problem, we are pretty well equipped shop for mechanicals/ body work etc.

Getting the right combo worked out and parts here to work with is the concern.
Budget is fine so far.

Fwiw- I really do appreciate everyone here- your help has been truly that- helpful.

Turbo action reverse manual shift valve body, the only way to go foot brake racing a Mopar
Same thing on a converter, buy a really good one, don't mess around with any thing less

Thanks Cab

Do you know if anyone makes a really good rebuild kit for the 727 - good parts, clutches /plates etc, etc.

Seems to be a million out there these days.
Thanks Again.

Cope Racing has some nice rebuild kits. John Cope is also very helpful if you have questions.

I buy all of my torqueflyte parts form Pro Trans in Lancaster, CA from Dave Smith 661-940-7400
Make sure and tell them that your building a foot brake bracket transmission and how much HP you think it will make

thanks again guys

Ok- mini tub set up/ spring move allows me a 15x10 with 3.5 backspace.

Tire size recommendations as well as Rim.
Weld’s are pretty normal of course.
Lot of rim companies out there but,,,,,,,,

Also- wilwood has a bolt on rear disc brake setup that looks good and doesn’t break the bank- just drag lights , look to be stable.

Anyone used them?

Thanks again to all .

If you are watching you budget do some measuring. My sons 1970 Duster has a 15-10 wheel and I think 5 inch backspace. Stock location caltracks with mono leafs. Stock wheelwells and ran a 10 inch micky Thompson slick but has now switched to radials. Last time out he ran 6.54 in the 1/8 mile with a fresh 360 and zero tuning

Anyone know exactly where to cut, or, take a pie cut out of the front of the rear quarters at the front of rear wheel wells for slick clearance ?
I think I know where I want to make the cut but would like to confirm.
It’s just really tight on the front side of the tire on the lowest side of the wheelwell.

I know I have seen pics, read an article but danged if I can find either .

Parts rolling in next week, trying to get as much done as possible before they arrive.
Thanks again for all the help.

Plan as it stands:
Finish pulling trim.
Media blast engine bay / prep for paint .
Strip/ sand body/ media blast what is needed.
Should finish most of that tomorrow .

Interior is stripped out other than main wiring section from dash/ steering volume to engine bay- it comes out in the morning.
I will retain twilight and headlight electrical runs.

Clean/ prep interior metals for primer/ paint.- hope to finish prep tomorrow or Monday.

Strip/ DA body for primer/ paint-/ paint engine bay, should finish by Monday night.


Body work and primer should go pretty quickly this week.

Wheels and Tires arrive Tuesday.

Strange spool/ 8.75 build kit arrives Wednesday and rear goes to our builder .
Get it back Thursday or Friday .

727 trans kit from A&A should get here Thursday or Friday.

Gerst tubular front suspension , coil overs, Viking dual adjutibke shocks should arrive Thursday.

Cal Trac’s/ split mono - probably Friday.
AR engineering motor plate - hopefully by Friday.
Fuel cell/ pumps/ regulators/ seats hopefully by Friday.

Start mock up of driveline by Saturday .
Hopefully take a correct roller to Fabricator by following Monday or Tuesday for cage - get car back Friday or Saturday to final the body, stick in booth for paint and start final assembly .

I think we can pull this together if build schedule doesn’t get completely blown up prior to final assembly .

If my math is right and, due to the help here- should be a fun car and, be on time for season here .

Caveat- Car hits a frame machine early Monday to be checked- if all is well, a very short visit, couple hours maybe.
If not- I will lose a day or two.

Having a blast in Texas!

[quote=RustyM]Ok- mini tub set up/ spring move allows me a 15x10 with 3.5 backspace.

Tire size recommendations as well as Rim.
Weld’s are pretty normal of course.
Lot of rim companies out there but /quote]
As far as rim width and tire to use is your rear end a stock width A body 8 3/4?
On moving and stretching the wheel wells I cut up three other junk Dusters rear 1/4 panels to use in having mine widen, the darn multiple angles on the rear 1/4 panel sheet metal makes it harder to make it look factory than the other Mopars I have had done

Wholly cow - that's an impressive build schedule!

Check out this thread for some pictures of stretching the rear wheel wells:

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2399290/1.html

no connection to the pics guys- I think they must time out or something- never can pull up older pics.

Cab: 50 wide, wheel flange to wheel flange .

I had my B body 8 3/4 narrowed one inch less than the stock A body where which is what your using, I think I used Welds that had one inch negative, one inch less offset on the inside than the width of the wheels, 10 inch wide with 4.0 inch inset on the inside, 5 inch on the 12 inch wide rims Maybe they where 4.5 and 5.5

RustyM - you have a PM.

Thank you!
Studying the pics now.
Nice work!

As we are going to run Andy’s motor plate and only have a bit over 650 hp , was thinking about using an electric water pump since car will really only see strip time.

Suggestions that don’t break the budget but are reliable/ functional?

Best place to get alternators for the motor plate ?
I see the powermastwrs / Denso’s in a range of prices- some too low to be correct and some to high to buy- grin.

Frame shop tomorrow to make sure the old girl is straight before we start welding steel in.

4 cornered car yesterday and weights/ distro looked good empty so- if she’s bent / torqued , it’s not much at all.

Parts start piling in tomorrow .

One just plain dumb mistake: Ordered wrong slicks !!!
Looked at so many/ so much data on my sheet I ordered the wrong pair.
I snapped later that night and rushed to look at my order - yep, wrong section width and rollout.
Too late- already shipped.
Ordered correct ones and got an RA for the wrong ones- sheesh!!

Haste makes waste and over thinking things makes me plumb stooopid!
Grin

[quote=RustyM]As we are going to run Andy’s motor plate and only have a bit over 650 hp , was thinking about using an electric water pump since car will really only see strip time.

I would use a remote pump like a Meziere, to free up space on the front of the motor.

I used one of Andy AR Engr. alternator mounting kits with a 100 amp Powermaster single wire alternator on my tube chassis Cuda with a stock single groove early 440 pulley

"Anyone know exactly where to cut, or, take a pie cut out of the front of the rear quarters at the front of rear wheel wells for slick clearance ?
I think I know where I want to make the cut but would like to confirm.
It’s just really tight on the front side of the tire on the lowest side of the wheelwell.

I know I have seen pics, read an article but danged if I can find either."

I just followed the wheel well body line straight off to make the wedge or pie cuts.

How much tire is that?

Thanks

She’s beautiful !

32.5 x 16

Wheel openings: to my eye, the trick is to make them look unaltered and related so to speak to the front openings.
My old SS Duster and the current project both retain the upper flared contour, but are cut starting about 2-3" below the center body line. Bottom of cut is to/flush ft of the tub. The racecar is also cut at the rear, and with minitubs & 3" relocation, 13x31s on 15x12 4BS fits fine, 14x32s would be a bit tight. Narrowed D60.
Project is cut almost the same in front, none at rear, measures like it should just accept a 295/65R15 on a 15x10 (ideally 5.0BS) with stock tubs & 3/4" relocation. Stock 8.75.
Both have upper lip rolled up, excess flange cut - take a good look at that area - racecar being thinner than project because I didn't want to cut the wheelhouse itself. Its flange is about 1/2" because of the stock wheelhouse contour. Racecar eliminated that and filler welded in.
Contours at front/inside of tub are another interference point at around 31/32" tire.
Pie-slice allows retaining the stock flange, a tight cut affect clearance only about 3/16".

Got the ole girl back from the frame shop.
She looked/measured pretty good here, just a little different door gab from right to left side.
Sure enough- get it on the frame table and- bam! There it is- twisted across from section from left to right, high on left, low on right and- just a tiny tad low on left rear corner.

All fixed up now- likely better than factory but- who knows.
main thing for us- we know she is plumb/square in all planes.
When i got there to pick her he still had instruments on her so i got to see where she was.
Door gaps good now side to side, front to rear.
Needless to say one can see clean old paint at fender bolt locations from re-setting fenders, grin, that old yellow wasn't so bad when new!- grin

back to building the car now.

Highly recommend having a relationship with a good frame shop- as of this date, never had one truly straight when it got on the table.

just sayin

I would like to know a few duster set-ups and what they run at what weight: 1/8, 1/4 , mph in both and 60 ft times.

This would help me greatly in building/setting up the car.

I have been using Wallace calculators for some things but not sure how accurate the data is one gets from these type calculators because we don't have air temps/dew points /drag coefficiants etc.

Open to advice as usual and any data folks are willing to share is greatly appreciated.

thanks,

rusty

My old street car, 1971 Duster, weighed 3450 Lbs. with me in it ready to race with full 3.0 inch exhaust to the rear bumper and air cleaner on. Ladder bars with double adjustable coil overs and a diagonal link,
M/T ET Street Radials 315x60x15 mounted on 10 inch wide Weld Pro rims. Stock gas tank with a Magnafuel 275 pump with a # 10 AN feed to the pump, #8 AN bypass and #8 AN (1/2 O.D. soft aluminum line to the regulator mounted up front in front of the carb.)
That motor was a 400 block bored to 4.375 and stroke was 4.300, Comp Cams custom ground solid roller 260@.0500 intake side, 266 @.050 exhaust side with Harland Sharp 1.6 ratio rockers that netted .700 + a tiny bit at the retainers on a set of Indy SR Max wedge size intake port heads and a Indy 400- intake and a Holley 1050 CFM Dominator.
It ran a bunch of 10.00 through the exhaust on 91 octane non ethanol Oregon pump swill, the motor made 727 HP the last time it was a decent engine dyno in Klamath Falls ,Oregon at 4300 Ft. in the spring

I've had two 72 Dusters - the first was a big tire SS spring, 451ci BB that made 677hp, 590tq, built 727 with Turbo Action Transbrake, 8" Dynamic 5000 converter, 4.10's, spool, slicks, 8 point bar, stock front suspension, 3300lbs with me at the line, 6.65@103 1/8mi, 10.40@128 1/4mi, best 60' was 1.45.

The second is in my sig - 408ci, iron W2's that made 605hp, 540tq, built low gear 904 with A&A Transbrake, 8" PTC 5500 converter, 6 point bar, front coil overs, 4.10's, spool, 275 drag radials, stock location cal tracs with split mono leafs, da AFCO's on all corners, 3160lbs with me at the line, 6.47@107 1/8mi, 10.18@131 1/4mi, best 60' is 1.41.

Cheers

My back half duster was around 3000 lbs 499 CID with Indy SR head ran 9.80 in 5000 foot air running 100 LL. This is with all pretty standard stuff 727 with griner transbrake and a Lupo converter.

mocking up the seat- poly seat.
best/easiest way to install race seats/ figuring distances?
Using a new steering column as stock was shot thus, wanting to get mock up done as easily as possible.

sooo far behind!
argh.

thanks guys.

also- perhaps some pics/ideas on mounting shifter would be really helpful time saver.
thanks again.

Check Andy's thread...

Slide the seat in with the new column and steering wheel in place and sit in the seat, move it around to where you like it and mount it there
I like to move the seat as far as comfortable to the center and as far back as my legs will safely reach the peddles of the car for two reasons, one is moving weight to the passenger side and the other is more arm room from those dang, pesky door bars
Think twice, modify once
Same thing on the shifter, put it where you like it

I have some extra seat brackets for a Kirkey, not sure if they'll fit your seat or not. I made several brackets for my car so the extras are just sitting here.

I'm interested Andy.

need help- bad as I hate to say it!

car finally back from getting a simple 8 point put in.

Mocking up drivetrain:
AR engineering motor plate, empty 413 bock with main caps, empty 727 case, stock 72 Duster trans mount bracket and rubber mount for mock up.

Problem 1 : I didn't pull pull old trans out, have mount in with "lip" to the rear as it seems like being toward the front limits access to speedometer drive ( but not cable- we wont be using anyway, so doesn't matter)- plenty of clearance on upper trans bolts for a ratchet wrench or open/box wrench- is this correct?
if mounted the other way, engine moves back another 1/2 to 3/4 inch.

Problem 2 : I used a 1 1/4 inch piece of tubing ( thanks Andy ) through the mains, through trans case to help align engine to rear pinion - not going well it seems.

motor plate has to be all the way over against drives side inner fender on frame rail to get real of trans aligned with pinion- im still off to the driver side approx. 1/2 to 3/4 inch.
How much play "right to left" on alignment is within good tolerance?

pinion angle ( verticals) I can get, no problem, its the horizontal plane thats giving me grief.

trans to firewall looks square, engine though looks like its angled from front drivers side to rear passenger side.

It "looks like" i need to modify trans mount hanger, move trans toward passenger side and then motor plate to passenger side to everything can be straight side to side , back to front.
This would also put me closer to TTI specs on split.
right now the difference is 2 inches instead of 2.5
I'm 14 1/16 from pass side frame rail to crank center line.
I'm 16 1/16 from drivers frame rail to crank center line.

I'm way, way behind on this car and- frustrated.

Rear housing is square to the car on all measurements.
there is no way for me to hit pinion nut to front of crank center unless i move rear of trans.
Right now motor place is sitting half on and half off passenger frame rail as we cut off all of the folded up area on that rail.

Install just looks all wrong- goofy, not square.
yes, Im aware engine sit to passenger side- just don't want driveshaft/u joint issues etc.

swimming in it in Texas, sheesh!

Rusty

Any chance you have the motor plate on backwards? The motor plate has the correct amount of offset built into it so it should drop in and be really close side to side.

Here is what mine looks like at the moment.

Move the motor over to the passenger side as far as you can get it safely with the parts you have, same thing on the rear tranny mount, move it as far back as you can and still hook everything up
I did all of that with my last Duster street car build, it had right at 50.25 % weight on the front tires with me in it with a full tank of gas in the stock gas tank
That rascal would flat hook up in the middle of a rain storm in a mud puddle AKA, that car flat worked well, it exceeded my expectations a bunch
Plan ahead and then build and enjoy it forever

have engine side toward engine Andy.
Im fixing to pull the stock trans mount bracket to see if there is any offset to it at all.
Motor plate is also square to core support - same distance on both sides.
Seems it has to be some sort of trans mount issue.
I just dropped plumb bobs on both sides in rear and rear housing is centered and square to car.
Im just pivoting on trans mount - near as i can figure- I have a problem there.

As you stated-" If i was a chassis builder i would go broke", on top of that, lose my mind- grin!

Did you have room left for your trans cover or blanket- cant remember?
Im "really tight " towards top of trans tunnel at bell housing.

Plumb bob, stringline, locate the centerline of the chassis. The center line of the drivetrain, from the front of the crank to the pinion, should be parallel to the chassis centerline. If going in on stock mounts, it will be about 1 1/4" to the right. If using motor/mid plates, lowering the engine will help clearances at the bellhousing. Putting a hole in the floor with a removable tunnel to fix clearances and access to bolts will make life easier.

Thanks Cab: I'm set up to pull trans mount back off now.
It looks like this is where my problem is- did any of these early dusters have an offset in them?

Bottom line, i may have to modify it or, fab one up that will allow me to mover everything over towards passenger side another 1/2 to 3/4 inch to get everything lined up properly.

If i knew how to post pics- I would.

Transmission crossmember should only fit on the car one way. The holes are not the same from side to side. However, over the years most anything could've happened to the parts you have. My car came with the wrong transmission mount and it took me a while to figure out the problem.

I have a CSR shield and it does not fit under the stock floor when the engine is in the location that TTi wants.

Do you have your headers yet? If you have your headers you should bolt them on the engine while you are at this stage. Depending on which headers you are using they can change everything. I had to start over once I tried to mount the headers. I had to move a bunch of stuff around and I still haven't quite recovered from that operation.

I have the TTI units you have .
I do have the Gerst front suspension that helps slightly in that i don't have the steering gear box- other than that- we are dealing with the same things.

1. yep- this trans mount only fits one way. That said, I'm wondering if its the slant six/904 unit, not that I know that makes any difference.
It does bolt up to crossmember and trans-mount base on transmission.

2. loosened everything up, slid motor plate back over pretty close to where it should go- everything lines up- but cannot attach mount to trans pad.
secondly, transmission is hugging passenger side of trans tunnel- not touching but, its getting pretty close.

Im wondering at this point if third member off-set is correct- sigh.

Anyone know what the pinion offset should be from the spring hanger when springs are moved into frame rails?

I can make this work by modifying a mount and hugging the passenger side of the tunnel- If headers will fit.
Mock those up tomorrow .
Would be nice to know if rear-end builder got it right or- wrong.
8.75 - built- Mark Williams/Strange etc.
don't want to waste work.

thanks guys.

Thanks CM: Its a motor plate, Rb Block/727 /8.75 combo.

at this point, it looks like i'm either going to be fabricating a trans mount and keeping everything a little further to passenger side ( if headers will clear ) or, have 8.75 re-cut.

Going to hang plumb bobs and see for sure- cannot find a spec for where the dang third member centerline "should be" from spring perch's.

Thanks for the help.

As far as I know the pinion offset should be the same as the engine offset. You might need to check with John Knukle or Cass to verify. Those guys know the rearend stuff better than me but I think the Mopar engineers moved everything over the same amount in the cars. Engine, trans and pinion are all moved around 1.25 to 1.50 depending on the make and model.

Thanks Andy.
I did as Cm suggested and im only off a tiny bit now- everything can be set at 1.5 inches off centerline to passenger side with a little tweaking.
will have to modify trans mount a little and man- headers are going to be tight on that side.

Going to look at it all again in the morning- i'm toast, 13.5 hrs today- enough.

Thanks guys.

Rusty

Center of the driveline should be parallel and offset an equal amount from the chassis centerline, from the front of the engine to the center of the pinion. If the springs are in the car correct, you can measure from inside of spring to the center of the pinion on both sides and that will give you a rough idea of the pinion offset. I.E. if the right side measures 17" and the left side is 19", that's 36" spring to spring with an inch pinion offset to the right. Another method is carefully straightedging across the mounting face of the axle to the pinion. 21" on the right, 23" on the left is a normal 44" wide unit with an inch offset.

I have seen cars with the shafts running back through the car crooked to a minor degree, without any real negative effects, due to the pinion being in the wrong place for whatever reason, BUT I would avoid it if possible, especially in a high power/speed situation.

Ladder bars are cheaper and lighter than Cal Tracks. At axle set up for 4 link gets you half way there as well. I've had no issues with the stock front suspension on my B Body. Good shocks, set for zero bump steer with heim outer tie rods. Though it was pretty close stock. Car has been 1.24 on a foot brake on 10.5x31

ok- Think I have the drivetrain aligned in the horizontal axis- i'm inside 1/16 from pinion centerline to crankshaft centerline at front of engine.
yep, things are tight on passenger side, will cut/dimple die some access areas for plugs on passenger side.

now- can anyone tell me what the engine angle is supposed to be in the vertical plane when setting up these cars?

I will be measuring pinion angle this morning but can say its not bad now.

Just wondering if there is a "rule of thumb" for engine pitch before a start working on pinion angle.

Thanks for any info.

most of the ones i have measured come at around a 3* pitch to the rear, with the carb base on the original intake level. if you look at an intake on a table, you can see the rearward pitch compared to the carb base.

thanks

I don't worry much about the left to right misalignment positioning of the motor due to the tranny U joint needing misalignment for it to work properly on the needles bearings, if it is off some it makes the needle inside move and rotate more.
As far as the angle of the carb flange on the intake manifold that changes a tiny bit when you climb into the car, doesn't it
It is really nice to get as close to as you want it as possible so you are happy with your work

bad day: Willwood drag brakes ( rear ) hat is only set up for 1/2 studs.
I call them, tell them i ordered it for 5/8 studs and gave them my axle register info, hat register is much larger.

They tell me they dont make a hat with 5/8 studs, have to be drilled.
I ask what bit to use to have correct tolerances- they don"t know>
Ask about the register issues- they don't know, its a universal hat.

I wait an hour, call back, i'm told you cannot drill the hats and they don't make any for 5/8 studs and dont know why a 5/8 stud has a 11/16 shank anyway.

Idiots!!

Weld wheels- ordered for 5/8 studs.
What do i get, rims for 1/2 inch, what am I told- drill them.
Idiots!

why place an order , take my order and not say anything?

Will never purchase anything else from Willwood or Weld again- EVER.

So, I
drill one hat to 11/16 knowing dang well its not going to allow enough clearance and, sure enough, too tight.
Done on drill press/centered- but axle stud locating just isn't that accurate .
Anyone know what size bit is proper to drill these stupid things and not have them sloppy ?

Thanks,
One mad Texan.

Then i try to register at Yellow bullet and- their stupid software keeps asking for some security question garbage that- you guessed it- doesn't freaking work.

I was watching TV last night and they built an entire race car in one show. Dang those boys on TV are fast.

Not only that. They never sweat or bloody a knuckle

Yeah, right Tthey don't do any actual work either, all acting

whats a Tv??
Grin

Anyone drilled these hats and if so, what did you use to get proper clearances .

If the studs are straight then 11/16 will be clearance for 5/8 studs. If the studs aren't perfect then you might have to open one or two holes up a touch more. 0.060 clearance on a stud is a lot. If that doesn't clear then your studs are not in there very straight. If that is the case then you'll have issues with the wheel also. Better to solve the root problem than to hog everything out......

when I bought my weld wheels they came with holes for 5/8 stud's and you had to use a lug nut with a shank that fits the wheel for alignment when using a 1/2 stud,, 11/16 hole should be god's plenty of clearance to fit a 5/8 stud, if you are using a standard drill bit,then it is walking around and making the hole oblong and probably won't be on center, need to find a 4 flute core drill that has a flute at every 45 degrees for more support, it's hard to make an accurate hole size with only two points of contact and nothing to keep it supported between them when you have a starting hole that big.

Studs are new Strange units , shanks are 11/16 dead on.
Thread ends are 5/8.
I ordered them to be long enough on the shank for the brake hat , weld wheel center sections, then I have to spacer/washer, then the 15/16's nut.
These are Mark Williams axles so- should be straight on hole bores/spacing.

Hell, I can order anything for a freaking Chevrolet and it fits- no problems.
Nothing for the Mopars has fit other than engine/transmission internals and your parts- literally nothing else has fit/ worked- period.

I have 14k worth of parts sitting here and so far- nothing but pure hell and these "Race Parts" companies don't have help any different than Autozone.

I take that back- all of Strange's stuff has fit/worked properly.

I guess im just going to eat the one hat, send everything Wilwood back and by Strange or something.
I simply cannot keep working 12-14 hr days and not getting 6 hours of real work done.

I put a whole new suspension- front and rear, tubulars, anti squat , disks etc on this 65 chevy truck in a day and a half-every piece was correct, everything fit as expected.

Freaking Mopar Major suppliers are useless .

arrgghh

Weld says they wont fit without being "relieved".
I can wiggle , push, bump etc and get the wheel over the studs- but its just too tight.
Weld agrees and says they have to be relieved.

run a reamer thru the holes, I had to do this after using the 1/2 studs with the shank style lug nut's and they swelled the holes in the wheels slightly,I used the moroso 5/8 stud kit,,strange has brake hats that will fit 5/8 studs kit, at least mine did, I really like mine, I bought the complete front and rear kit including the matching master cylander.

The only reason I started making parts was because I got tired of buying garbage from Mopar Performance and Hamburger and other Mopar suppliers. I got sick of paying good money for crap that I had to re-machine before it would fit.

Agreed Andy : It’s horrible out here.
I appreciate the thoughtfulness and accuracy of the parts we have gotten from you.
I forgot to mention the Gerst front suspension did fit like a glove- no issues at all and Carl Gerst is just one of those “ jewels “ of a guy.
I think everyone here would like him .

I’m just really frustrated and - sorry I vented here.
I have a very low tolerance for what goes on with these parts suppliers .
Too many people just reading screens.
Tech support that seems it couldn’t open a coke can without a screen shot, don’t know thief products and- my favorite - getting different answers to the same questions from different people at the same company .

Our time ,,, matters.

Yep- I’m old.
I came up when customer support was king, knowing product was important, returning phone calls was important and not doing so , well, you didn’t want to get called into the office over that.

Tradecraft, accuracy , problem solving - these things were important.

Ok- Rant over.
I will work problems to solutions tomorrow, pick up the type drill bit mentioned.
Set up a dial indicator and make sure I don’t have a problem at the axle end .

I will win.

I have 5 mopars sitting here to build after this one, one more may be on the way.
Hopefully by the time I get to the next one- I will have parts pipeline figured out better, know where the land mines are and how to navigate them.

Once again: I can’t say enough how much I appreciate the Moparts community.

Thanks Dartman: I will go get one of those bits in the morning.
I’m going to check runout on my drill press as well.
Going to dial indicate my axle ends/.
Put studs back in and run those- Think Andy had a good idea in checking to make sure I don’t have problem I could correct wrongly .

The bit issue makes sense as well.
Might be an error on my end by using a regular ( but new! Grin) bit .

I appreciate the help - truly .
Thanks

Wheels are made for 1/2" shank style nuts which are a few thou under 11/16" diameter in the shank. A little honing or fitting is usually required. I usually get them to fit snug at first since they will loosen up some with use and I don't want them sloppy loose. Typically I'll use a stud to fit each hole rather than trying to fit 5 at a time. I suppose another option is to turn a few thou from the stud.

I think I used 11/16" bit to drill my drums, fit right on. just set it on the drill press and drilled , no special set up.

Hey guys: Before I get this chassis in paint- should i ad the Caltrac sliders to this thing or just run the shackles with poly bushings?

The sliders make sense to me, just don't know if they make a difference on 60ft times.
Some guys down here say they make the car more unstable on the big end when letting off ( more swing/sway.

Anyone have any data?

Thanks.

No sway on the big end when letting off.
https://youtu.be/pykomRESf0M

Fiberglass six pack hood for Duster- who to use today?
Race weight
would you use bumpers from them as well?

Thanks

Unlimited Fibreglas on both 877-735-7772
They changed ownership several years back, 10+ yrs., and moved out of the L.A. basin to the high desert in Hesperia ,CA . Those changes have made it a lot better company on product development, products and delivery
I've bought hoods and bumpers for my old Duster and my current Cuda, all where great fit and finish

Glasstek All the Way.
Best quality - just bought 6 pack hood for my Demon.

thanks guys

Hi Folks: Race season over and back to working on the Duster.

Update: Engine/trans/rear-end/caltracs /Gerst front-end are all in the car after painting underneath/engine bay/trunk/interior/
If someone could try "one more time" to instruct me on putting up pics, I would post a few. Warning, I'm an Apple/Mac/Iphone guy and not too bright- grin.

Questions:
1. with the 28x15 rear slicks, what front runner would you use ?
So far i have had to use the bottom hole of the front spring hanger so the car id a little higher than i want in the rear, sliders will lower it a tad.
So, I'm considering a 1" lowering block in the back and either a 26 or 25 front tire- thoughts?

2. Drivers fender is pretty rough so, glass or steel fenders?
i'm a fan of steel but, glass is light and less money generally.
Car will be tagged but see very, very little street time.

3. We used the Mezier electric pump with a drivers side dump water pump housing and the 4 core aluminum radiator for a duster- any decent looking/reliable way to make the trip across the lower radiator with radiator hose?

4. If anyone needs a = 2000cfm extremely low profile "puller" fan- look at "The Fan Man- sidewinder"- little expensive but a very nice piece and min. weight penalty.
https://the-fan-man.com/product-category/sidewinder/

5. Anyone know where to get a duster "blank" gauge panel- the whole bolt in piece?

6. Anyone have any pointers on getting the trans blanket in on a bb duster? grin.

Lastly for now:
I want to thank Moparts family for being here and specifically all the guys that helped me/us this season.
The 65 Satellite many of you helped us with did in general meet the goals set, we moved it from 6.72 to 6.41 , it was capable of running 6.58-6.60 with high 1.40 60 fts >
Our best time was a 6.37 ( could have have done one more carb change and gotten a .35 but no more time left) and 60's of 1.40, 1.41, 1.40, 1.42, 1.41, we had one .43 60ft in the other lane.

All the chassis advice really helped a lot, carb tuning advice helped a great deal .
We will put new double adjustable front shocks on the front and hopefully new torsion bars , a tad more carb work and .56 gear in it which should have him at 6.33 in good air and thus be able to stay on his .41 in Texas summer heat/humidity.
I can honestly say a great deal of the seasons success in reaching his goals is directly attributed to you good folks.

Thanks again and , wishing you all a very Merry Christmas!

Rusty+

I moved my motor back about one inch on my old 1971 street Duster using elephant ears on the front and longating the tranny mount holes, I pounded the firewall, floor board pinch weld seam flat and use a full coverage blanket on it. that was with a 400 block, 727 tranny and fender well headers I'm drawing a blank on which brand name though