Holley Street Dominator Vs MP 337 intake ?

I am curious as to some or anyone who may have tested both of these intakes as they are about the only single plane intakes that will fit under my hood of my 63 ? And I was hoping in the next year or so to try and get my hands on one as one day I want to try a single plane on my car and also more carb. I believe the 337 is no problem porting to max wedge size ports but am not sure about the SD as I never tried it. So just curious on opinions as to if the Holley SD can be ported close to max wedge size ports and which you feel may work better on my pump gas 493 in my 63 ? My eng now uses the Indy dual plane which works great on the street and track but I want to see how fast a single plane is on it one day. Right now I still run my 850 carb and I would love to try a Dominator but again I need to be sure it will fit under my hood with one of them single plane intakes. All opinions welcome and thanks. Ron

The 337 is a MW, although the ports are cast a bit undersize at the exits. No way a SD can go MW. I think you better start looking for a 337...

Actually you can make a SD as wide or wider than a MW (I've done it) and almost as tall. I don't think a ported SD would work better than a PORTED 440-2D Indy though, but a dual plane really wants a bigger carb on a 500" since the plenum is split. The 2d REALLY NEEDS PORTING especially in the lower plenum though, a couple of the cylinders are down somehere around 30+ cfm to the uppers, maybe Ron you might want to try mine now that I've swapped to the 337....but I think you might need larger than an 850 to see Apples to Apples.

My 337 is fully ported with the runners matched. Yes they are cast about 1/2 way between a 906 and a MW.

If you put a SD intake on that motor, the car will just slow down.

In order to see any gain over the 2D, you'll need the 337....... And even then, I'd expect the differences to be small.

I dont see any way possible a SD will work better on that engine, in any form.I also think it would be tough to improve upon the 2D, even with a 337, which is an intake I like along with the 2D. With a little work, maybe some extra MPH out of a 337, but boy, it wont be much.The differences seem greater when cam, compression and CI come up from my experience, then the better intakes like the Indy shine a bit more.

I never ran an unported 337 and I resisted putting it on for years, loving my deep ported 2D. My 517 motor is very comparable to Ron's maybe a 1/2 notch hotter with a few more cubes a low deck and the Chapman heads. But my car is a 70 Charger R/T Dana car so it's also several 100 ponds heavier I'm sure than his awesome 63 B.

Anyway, curiosity finally got the best of me and I sent the 337 over to Larry Smith to work it over, the porting is amazing. So then the 'Scotsman Logic' in me finally said "I have too much $$$ in this hunk of aluminum to just leave it on the shelf! LOL. Anyway I finallly put it on and the response and torque is as good or slightly better but the upper range 4500-up to 6800 redline feels stronger but unless I do a back to back on a chassis dyno and/or the track I'll never really know...I know it's tough to beat a well ported 440-2D on the street though. I'm not sure how Ron's motor revs but this one responds like a comp eliminator motor, it's the first big block Mopar out of maybe 20 over 37 years of driving and racing that I needed to put a shift light on, let's put it that way.

And I agree I wouldn't run a MW ported SD, at best you can get about 320-ish CFM out of the runners and at that point the plenum becomes the choke point, great manifold otherwise though but you need a manifold that can at least keep up with the heads...oh and a bit bigger carb.

I did not think the SD could go to max wedge size and I also did not think it would be better but I was not sure and knew some of you have run more of these combo's and know more about the SD then me. I have a friend who went to a Victor I believe from his Indy dual plane and his car was close to mine but has more comp. He went from 10.98 to 10.90 with the intake change. He did however switch his 850 DP to a Dominator and dropped to 10.60's and picked up about 3 tenths. But I dont know how he had his 850 jetted and worked. I just keep thinking I should try a single plane and a Dominator on the car one day and spend a day at a T & T. And I think the 337 is about the only single plane I can fit under my hood other then the SD which is not what I want and you all seem to agree on that. Or I could consider trying a Dominator on this intake. I really dont have the money to make any major changes which I dont want to as I do like how well this combo drives and runs. But I have always wanted to try the Dominator and a good single plane just to try. It may not be much if any better but I think it will like the more carb some. My question is will a Dominator fit under my hood on this intake or on the 337 ? This setup is tight up to the scoop botttom as my carb stud now is about 1/4" below the bottom of the scoop. Thank for the replies. Ron

I'd recommend the 337 if you can find one and stay with the same carb. The 337 is lower and should give you room to run a larger air cleaner which might help make a little more power. I don't think I'd recommend a Dominator for you. They are big and expensive and not really designed for street use.

Ron...the Holley SD isn't available w/ a 4500 flange, so you'd need the tall adapter to use a dominator carb. With that tall adapter, not sure if it would fit under your hood? I know they make short adapters, but they don't work well at all and wouldn't be worth trying.

Either the Indy 2D or 337 would need to be modified to allow the use of a 4500 style carb without the use of an adapter.
Both for the bolt pattern and more than likely throttle blade clearance.

I have another customer running that same top end Ron is running but with a similarly speced roller cam instead of the solid.
He was also running an old school style 850DP.

He called AED and had them build him an HP1000 carb...... Picked up about .2 and 2mph in the 1/4.

I'm not saying you'd see the same thing, just pointing out that some carbs people are running that they feel are working just fine...... Are leaving a fair amount of performance on the table.

Is that a 4 hole or open spacer?

Mine picked up taking out some divider on the 2D, and picked up again going from a 4781 to a 950 hp.

I have an Indy 2D on top of my 512 with a set of Nick Wilson prepped Indy Max Wedges with a solid roller and am doing the exact thing Ron is wanting to do. Larry Smith at Flow Tech just finished porting my 337 intake and opening up to the Max Wedge ports. Also curious, as I'm going to try with the my 1000 AED first, then going MPFI with it.

You're gonna love what Larry does to that 337!

It's almost a shame to put a carb over it, lol...plus it works awesomely!!

is the indy dual plane same height with the 337?
thanks

I’d be willing to bet you’d get more out of a swap to more carburetor than a either of the single planes you mention, Ron; or really any manifold swap for that matter. You drive your car on the street a lot, so I’m not sure a dominator would ultimately be your best choice. Dom would likely disagree with that, and could likely build you a 4500 that would work seamlessly on the street; but that would be a fully worked and re-calibrated unit.

It just sure seems that the Indy 2D with a good 1000cfm based 4150 would be a tough system to beat on your car. I recently found a way to put an open 1/4” spacer between my 1000HP and the RPM, and blended back the top and divider of the RPM plenum, just trying to get more open plenum area, and my car seemed to respond well to that mod.

I would actually like to run one of the 950 or 1000 hp 4150 carbs as I would not have to use an adapter that the Dominator needs on them intakes. Course my problem is I would really like to try one first as my cash flow is very tight and I really cant afford to spend $700 or more on a carb. I would love to try one I could work with some as right now the only other carb I have is my buddies 950 Proform and I have not done anything to it as its not my carb so I really cant mod it any unless I buy it from my buddy. Dont get me wrong I like how the car runs now and I have no complaints on how well this basic 850 DP works. But like any gearhead we always start thinking about little thinks that might pick our cars up a little. But honestly my main problem is I am living on disability as I cant work with my joint , knee and back problems and even when I tinker with my car I cant go no more then maybe an hr on my feet and then I look like a damn cripple I get in so much pain. Sitting is one position that I am ok at. I just dont have the spare money to buy many parts and I am ok with that but it makes it tuff when I think about something I want to try on my car. Honestly I have no complaints how my car runs now as it runs and drives great on the street and at the track and I am happy with it. But like any gearhead 10.50's is better then 10.70's ! My best bet would be to try that Indy 2D intake thats worked like the one Streetwize has and get my hands on a nice 4150 carb of the 1000 hp kind since it will bolt right to that intake. And since mine is a street car I like to use the 1" phenolic spacer as it helps a ton with heat soak on the street. Course the wooden spacers work great also. Thanks for all the replies as I appreciate it very much as I know most on here have fooled with more combo's then me and many of you know what works good on our combo's. Thanks and I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas !!! Ron

If it was me I'd keep my eyes open for a 337 intake. They pop up once in awhile so you have to be fast on the trigger. Get one of those and then just try it. You might lose a little torque with the single plane but you'll pick up room which will then allow you to use a phenolic spacer and still be under the hood. You'll also be able to run a big air cleaner. Down the road you can get the intake ported and/or try a bigger carb. You can sell the 2D intake and get some money back to buy the air cleaner and carb spacer.

Is the 337 intake taller than the Indy 2D?

Every once in a while an old dual plane dominator flange intake shows up for sale. I think it's a Weiand but I don't remember
Has anyone ever ran one before?

BTW, Hey Ron I will still send you my 1050 QuickFuel 4150 for a couple weeks whenever you want to give it a try

Gus

No, the 337 is probably an inch shorter than the 2D but it has been awhile since I had both in my hands.

anyone knows if the 337 is taller or shorter than the indy dual plane?

ok Andy thank you!! looks that would clear in my 68 charger

If you search on "337" you'll find a lot of info. We've been talking about this intake manifold for almost 10 years now. It is kind of like Yeti except that the 337 does actually make an appearance once in a while. MP killed it once and Moparts brought it back but I don't think we'll be able to save the next time it gets killed.

Andy I actually use this smaller 9" air cleaner because its what I want. I found the larger ones hold more heat around the carb bowls on hot summer days and anything that helps keep heat away from the bowls I did since this crap pump boils about 190 degrees. This smaller one did help some as to not trap as much heat on the carb bowls. I just remove the air filter at the track. I had noticed one day how hot it was on my hands when I put them under the larger air filter to lift it off which told me I wanted to go with this smaller one for street driving. I dont street race anyway and it along with the heat shield and phenolic spacer and moving most the fuel line outside the wheelwell took care of the fuel wanting to boil in the bowls on super hot (95 +) humid days. Ron

Thanks Gus as I would love to try it one day. Really it would be nice to take the worked 2D like Streetwize has and the 337 with that 1050 to a T & T one day and try them. I need to get new slicks though before I race again so I need to do that first. Thanks again to you all. Ron

Ron,

I'm thinking about a cam swap sometime in the spring, since you are in Maryland and I'm in NC maybe somehow we can meet again ( I met you at E-town I think back when I was doing the F.A.S.T Tech) 1/2 way in Virginia and I can lend you both of my Top ends (the 337 and the ported 2d with my 1000HP carb)to try out...just a thought. I know a LOOOONG time ago I lent a carb to 440Jim and he picked up a tenth or so on his 9 second Duster.

It would be fun to borrow both intakes and the carb as I would love to try them at a T & T. And of course its so easy to change the intakes on our engines that it would be fun to test them. I could give everything back to you the following weekend. I do want to get new slicks before I race again as they are getting worn out and have been on my car 5 years or more now. Course it would not be until May most likely at the earliest. But I would drive down your way to meet you as you are doing me a favor so I dont want you to go out of your way as I would do that. Maybe around April I can talk with you to see if it can be worked out ? Thank you , Ron

Sounds good, buddy!

We have somewhat similar engines..(493 vs 505) both pump gas, both flat tappet Comp XX lobes. You have one size bigger lobe on on intake and exhaust and 1.6 rockers versus my 1.5 as well as your EZ heads with max wedge ports.Your car is lighter as mine is 3840 with driver. My hood is flat and you have a scoop.

You have 4.10 i have 3.54. I used to have a Dynamic 9-1/2, the starter knocked off some of the teeth so i had to replace the starter and swap in an 8" Dynamic (no et change from the 9-1/2" to the 8" but i also had Lenny restall the 9-1/2 right before the starter hurt the convertor teeth)
I used to have the 2D(std port) and RPM heads(std port). Then i swapped from an old Holley 850 to a 1000AED. Et droped and MPH picked up.

Then I swapped the 2D to an M1 and kept the 1000AED. It then dropped to 7.0's and 11-teens. Was still over 3,900 pounds at this point.

After that i took off the front 1-1/8 sway bar, power steering, and head pipes and mufflers, left tailpipes on. And got some 11.0's at 120-121

Try the changes for sure

I've had several 4150 tunnel ram intake tops modified from 4150 bolt patter to 4500 pattern, you can do the same thing on a single carb intake also

The 337 and the 2d are real close as far as height goes. I compared mine and one end of carb pad on the 2d is higher and the other end is lower. Remember alot of carb mounting pads are not machined parallel with the top of the block in an attempt to keep the carb level.

Thank you good buddy. Ron

Wow thank you RalleyA12 for that good info. Ron

Edelbrock made the dual plane CH440 with a 4500 top.

perfect pictures
looks like the 337 is 1/2 inch shorter

The only pain Ron in attempting a back to back swap is you probably have the Indy Valley plate with your 2D sealed between both your heads. The 337 replaces the valley tray so it's a bit more than a Typical 30 minute RB swap. On my Chapman Stage VI low deck the 337 cast valley sits over the low deck Indy valley pan, theres a small but adequate air gap between them.

It'd be interesting to see how the ported 2D would do vs (I assume) stock MW, just curious if you have ever checked your plugs after a hard pass? The lower plenun #3 and #7 I think are the holes that only flow about 80-85% of the best upper plenum runners, I wondered if that type of inblanace could be read off the plugs (or on a dyno with individual EGTs) in terms of A/F distribution. Of course with a dual plane the plenum charge itself may be able to compensate a bit for that.

I was told the 337 will bolt right on my eng with the EZ heads and that it will sit just above the Indy valley pan. Someone even had a pic posted of it where the 337 sits just over the Indy valley pan when its bolted down on my eng ? So I thought from what I was told I wont have to touch my valley pan ? Ron

That may be, hmmm, I only know how it fits on my low deck with the Stage VI heads.

I guess the 337 manifold was designed to fit either the original Stage I-III max wedges or only the odd-ball non raised port Max wedges that MP introduced several years ago? No wonder they didn't sell many of them.

I just assembled 337 on the EZ-1 heads on my top end awhile ago. I used a allen screw with a smaller top instead of the indy valley plate bolts. The 337 clears each screw about 1/16" or a bit less. Hopefully the pics show this clear enough. I figured changing the screws was easier than drilling a bunch into the intake lol.

Thanks Willie as thats how it looked at the pics I saw before. I cant remember who it was but they told me the 337 will bolt on just like in your pic and I can just leave the Indy valley pan alone. Thanks , Ron