The Pro Stock circus continues

Like this is going to save the class.



https://www.nhra.com/news/2017/nhra-allow-any-accepted-enginebody-combination-pro-stock-2018

Used to be my favorite class.....Now its Promod and I am sure they will screw that up.

It's a good idea. Cunningham, Patrick and those Ford guys can run cool looking Mustangs and be competitive. Same with Kramer and guys running Darts. Makes more money for the GM engine guys as they will have engines in everything. Racing is racing. This allows everyone with a pocketbook to be competitive and race the brand car that they want. The only thing that I'm sure will absolutely DESTROY my love for it is when someone shows up in a Camry.

A high dollar Comp eliminator. The same guys will still dominate, there will be no difference. The cars/engines are close now......AJ''s Dodges are within a half a tenth of the leaders. The problem is the cars are too refined, they don't make a bad run. So, it might as well light years. The days of someone coming out of the middle of the pack, even though it's within a few hundredths, and winning on a hole shot, or because someone misses a shift or even a shift point, are over. The cars are like watching robots. Not even fun to watch.

I guess to the "average" spectator, it doesn't matter. As long as it goes fast and makes a lot of noise. Gotta hand it to Allen Johnson. He maintained brand loyalty and purity to the end, despite the odds.
Pro Stock - the original "factory hot rods" RIP. It's where the FS cars should be.

I'm guessing no one had a problem when pro stock allowed the use of the hemi in a duster......

Well golly, I thought the Hemi was a Plymouth engine! And Vegas came with small blocks, who would of thought

Or a Boss 429 in a Maverick...
Really???

Now the class will be boring .

It's all a ruse to get Toyota into the class.

What a joke.

Yep!

Well, the Fuel classes all run what still looks like a Gen 2 Hemi, so I guess the GM-ish engines in all the PS cars is about the same logic.
That aero reference is because the PS bodies are approved in a standardized form, which is why they look Pro-Mod-ish.
ProStock's gravestone will read "1970-2017".

I was watching Jay Leno's garage awhile back. He went for a drive in a I believe a Score [ Toyota ] off road race truck. The owner said it was powered by a Toyota engine that could run 10,000 RPM's all day . Maybe the Chevy's will be taking a break from the winners circle or there will be a lot of toyota engines in Chevys.

Those Toyotas are not Toyotas. They are an amalgamation of the Chevy and dodge engines.

Why doesn't NHRA do a spinoff of pro stock and call it PS/C similar to our SS class SS /H for the old HEMI cars. It's all Chevy anyway.

Here comes Toyota..This is not new news per se'. The word of this coming has been floating around most of last year.

Great more uninformed people on the planet (or the same amount with with more ammo).......I can hear them now boy those Toyota's really run. Just another reduction to the intelligence for the almighty dollar. I have good friend that swears that Top fuel engines are Chevy because of the advertising on the body. Even after showing him the pics of that teams engine. Ever listen to stock car racing fans talk about their favorite Ford, Chevy, or Toyota. Exactly why I haven't watched any professional racing on TV for almost 2 decades. Heck I usually don't even read these post about them. I would love to watch some bracket, sportsman, or swamp-buggy racing any day. But for some reason they won't show that. Man I miss Sundays with Diamond P sports on TNN . I know times have changed.....

Quick Question,

Will a a mid 60's iron 396 Chevy head or Crank still physically bolt into a DRCE motor?
I believe an original 66 Hemi head or crank will still drop into a modern top fuel block. to me that is the Litmus test. if they hybrid P/S it is no longer a valid class, it's basically a homogenized heads-up comp eliminator class with spec engines...what could be more boring.

I suppose the goal to the NHRA is the perception of diversity, I wouldn't be suprised if there aren't 'back-door' incentives to rebody your Camaro to a dodge or a Mustang...that might actually appeal to the Summit or Jegs teams.

Brand loyalty has almost completely vanished from motorsports, sadly it's all about the show anymore. It means no more than the corporate "Stadium Naming" in the NFL. Things that mattered to older generations for the most part were not passed down to younger generations. Maybe if we had all the distractions and diversions in our day that kids have today we would at least be able to understand it better.

The teams are the ones that asked for this. What it does, is allow teams to choose what engine, in what aero package ( body) they think will work best.

I agree, the same as everything else today, repeating what they hear, with no understanding what so ever of the topic. Back in the day you found out what was right before you spouted off like an idiot. We where car junkies, not game boys. As far as Toyota, the other three can get off their butts and spend the jack to compete, they're still living on last years fame, plus the "owner" we have at FCA is out to lunch and going back to V6s and 4 cyl, full circle back to the wonderful years.

Really?!? The future is in 4 cylinder turbo cars and electric, the days of V8 muscle will end when this current crop of muscle cars are done in the next couple of years.

Glad I won't be around to see that future.

Truly we are devolving.

The only reason I can think of for the teams asking for this is so they can possibly go for more MFG moneys since Chevy's marketing "pot" split 16 ways probably isn't enough to buy spark plugs for a season.

But what MFG is going to offer up sponsorship $$ in PRO STOCK when everything is a GM motor.... Top fuel and Funny Car all run mopar motors and there's not really enough $$$ in it for GM or Ford to justify spending $$$ for a brand specific block and heads...is there? Maybe when Force did the re-badged ford Hemi is somehow talked them into that? but not for pro-stock.

I know when I think of the epitome of the pure iconic American muscle car....... Camry is right there at the top of the list.

Years ago when the Camry was first introduced the local toyota dealer was on the radio advertising them as "the toyota cam ray". What a dufus.

In the south it's called Tiota, or Tiyota, some pronounce the y, some don't, like root one or route one (the highway)

Personally, I think Pro-Stock died years ago when the body's became carbon fiber blobs with decals loosely resembling something offered by Chevrolet or Dodge. I'm not sure it can be saved by anything at this point.

I'd like to see Factory Stock take the spotlight. If they had to even the field, a weight minimum dictated solely by aero drag coefficient, keeping the cars in bone-stock Sheetmetal, with a factory built chassis and engine combination is something I'd like to see.

Basically funny cars with doors and gasoline now. Will not change the landscape much in the near future. The last Dodge after Allen was switching anyhow. Maybe Wescott will get back into it. Still has the car I think.

This sounds like an act of incredible desperation... and I expect the class is still effing doomed by EOY 2018.

I like it. This will allow Ford and Mopar to participate as sponsors without having to deal with the exorbitant costs of PS engine development. PS engines are freaks that bear no resemblance or commonality (other than name) to anything I will ever own, so my brand loyalty in that respect is weak at best.

Heck, I would venture a guess that if you took all 3 PS engines apart and set all the parts out, most guys couldn't tell what was "GM", "Ford" or "Mopar" anyway.

"Heck, I would venture a guess that if you took all 3 PS engines apart and set all the parts out, most guys couldn't tell what was "GM", "Ford" or "Mopar" anyway."

That depends on how old you are, over 50, you can tell. THAT is the problem today with all forms of racing. As memory's fade, so does the why of what it once was all about.

They fowled up Pro stock when they allowed Grummpy's tube chassis V-8 Vega to run, and every body else had a factory bodied car.

The big teams that are running are a millionaires club, that want to keep playing in their sandpit.
All that aside, these teams employ many staff to run their operation, if they stop racing Pro Stock, you'll have plenty of folks looking for a job. Some of the engine guys may stay on, but I can understand why the teams are trying to stay racing.

On various Facebook posts regarding this news, a lot of people are wanting Pro Mod to take it's place, some getting behind the factory based stuff. If Pro Stock goes, I'm not sure either will get up

you mean like the four link, acid dipped bodied, dusters with hemis?

Most of the PM guys don't want to run a 24 event season. They are happy running part time. Make it a full series and many of them won't make all the races.

IMO, they need to scrap the EFI, or at least let carbs run with them, because that was a giant flop. Get rid of the rev limiter, because it didn't bring in a single new competitor. Hood scoop or no hood scoop.

Run PM at half the races and PS at the other half and have 3 races a year where they both compete. Say...the Winternationals, Indy and the Finals. That would be 15 races a year for each class.

There hasn't been anything "stock" in Pro Stock since the first couple years. Also, weren't the Eicke Mopar years run with his lectover Pontiac motors?

I love the technology in P/S, but it's so outof control I rarely watch anymore.

I think it is a joke. What made Pro stock great was the different manufactures competing against each other. NOW it is nothing more than carburetor on a Funny Car.

Hence the birth of the predator cyl. head. Along with Nickens. I believe that the rule when they were running is that the engine case casting had to have (same as the car) factory Pt. #'s. They must have been lenient with cyl. heads and let them use a sharpie.

More logic right there in one internet post than NHRA has shown in years.

On a unrelated note, GREAT signature pic!

The blocks and heads were REQUIRED to have a factory stamped part number for use in Pro Stock, unless that has changed in the very very recent past. The stuff I had all had Mopar part numbers in the head and on the block. My car also has Mopar part numbers on the entire thing, body, trunk, doors, dash etc. Don't mean much as they submit the parts for NHRA approval and once given they are produced. Same thing happened with the Eicke stuff. The were not the direct Pontiac parts, they casting was changed to make them have a Siamesed exhaust port like a factory head. Just as the latest "Hemi" run in Pro Stock is not a Hemi...

As for the comment is the current Pro Stock internals were laid out on a table I doubt most anyone here could identify them unless they had seen them previously. Age would mean nothing.

I would bet you will not see 1 Ford or 1 Mopar out there this yr with a GM motor its pro chevy camaro AJ and his dad and Mopar talked to NHRA about prostock and they wanted no part of what Mopar was asking for so they said see you later Just let it die

Oh you forgot the Lenco trans

Cunningham passed away a few years ago.

I think you'll see a couple chevy powered darts, purely because they could be picked up cheap(ish) and they are pretty slick.

Ever look at John Force's funny car engine? say's Chevrolet right on top of the valve cover, got to believe that right? LOL

https://bangshift.com/bangshift1320/time-bret-kepner-predicted-future-pro-stock-40-years-ago/

Just when you think NHRA couldn't do anything any dumber, THEY GO OUT AND TOTALLY REDEEM THEMSELVES !! Just my opinion, they should have to use FACTORY Steel roof and quarter panels and motor combination that is currently offered in a PRODUCTION vehicle let them run the factory super chargers or turbos of that manufacture. After all it's supposed to be pro STOCK !! Ok now I'll shut up. NHRA pro stock is now pronounced dead.

Tube chassis Dusters where not allowed until a year after Jenkin's Funny car Vega and they had to carry a .50 lb per c.i. weight penalty with a Hemi which was changed to .75 half way through the next season.

Pro Stock sucks to watch because it has no power adders. 6.50 1/4 mile? Oh boy! 213 mph? My car goes 205 to the 1/8th. And it costs a fortune to be that unimpressive. Pro Mod is the next big thing but the NHRA is already messing with that. Spectators love nitro and the sound big power turbo cars make. The rest is just time fillers.

And on the opposite note, power adders are VERY predictable and SHOULD go that fast.........500 cubes all motor, let that sink in plus w/enuff $$$ all of us can make just about anything fly...........

Look at the Oklahoma Outlaws now, big $$$, fast et's WHEN they can get down the road/track and where does it end and how many more crashes will need to take place before people realize you can buy/build endless power which eventually can and will kill you...........

I'm impressed!

You and me noth Dave. Anyone who plays in an NA world and is not impressed by 500 cubes at 2350lbs running 6.50's is nuts....

Power adders are far from predictable. Not many N/A cars are just starting to lift the wheels at the 330 mark, or start to lose traction at half track.

If I was still interested in Pro Stock (which i haven't been since the dodge boys days)

I would like to see basically the pro stock truck smallblock motors limited to about 370" (6.2-ish litres) with no RPM limits and in Carbon Fiber but all stock/oem dimension bodies. If they whine about standard overhangs, go to a rollout type double trigger light where it has to be off the wheels (similar to the starting line) You could run a Challenger....or a Dart, a Mustang or a Fusion, a Camaro or a whatever. That to me would be far more exciting and interesting to watch and would be more or less back to the early 80's concept of Pro-stock.

won't happen, but it's a nice dream.

Well here is some insight from someone who ran the class for a very very long time on the new rules package.

https://www.nhra.com/news/2017/pro-stock-legend-johnson-shares-his-thoughts-2018-pro-stock-rules

The same guy who thought EFI and losing the hood scoops would save the class now thinks essentially a spec engine will save the class.

Wrong again WJ.

Wonder if (conversely, as WJ pointed out) somebody like KB start tinkering with the Hemi? I know both Line and Anderson have Mopar history going way back.

Considering this was done because it’s what the teams asked for, I’d take the opinion of someone who actually competed in the class for 40 years, over that of the fans.
Personally, I think pro STOCK died in about 1973.

As soon as they put a rev limiter on the hemi
they killed that engine.. its no wonder that
Chrysler pulled the plug.. if Chrysler was winning
they would have put money in it

The RPM killed the Asymmetric head, teams chose not to pursue the symmetrical port head when it was released because the asymmetric head made more power. With the intro of EFI and the RPM limit the symmetrical port head is a better design. But since no one was developing that platform they fell behind. They were making strides with it and given a bit more time I am quite sure they would be right there again. Kramer stayed with the asymmetrical stuff as that's what they had their time and money tied up in. No different than how those changes affected the DRCE2 stuff. It was hurt by the ROM limit but the DRCE3 was superior. Team KB was on the development of the 3 head way before anyone else which is why they had such a quick start. To oversimplify it

WJ wanted EFI near 20 years ago. The fact that they did it so late doesn't make him wrong.

Pro stock is ever advancing, despite funding losses. I've been at WJ's on holidays, even on Sunday mornings,and sometimes late in the evenings, and he'll be filthy head to foot, with chips in his hair like stripper glitter. He never stops, and the stuff he works on spans all the tech involved. Right down to predictive software relative to head flow, that transfers straight to machine code. He, and Kurt not having sponsor money to spend in R+D is a huge waste of a dying resource.

Love the made my money racing, I won't spend it on it comment lol!

Are there any pics of the current state of the art DRCE Heads out there? Last ones I've seen up close were a few years ago (which I guess is a generation ago in pro stock)

Interesting view, surprised what a big pro stock Hemi fan he is. Of course he said parts availability was a big issue for him and I am not sure any more are being cast.

Bill

Sounds like grass is greener syndrome after working on GM stuff for 50? years... OR silently whispering into Mopars ear that he's available to run their team.

I too thought it was funny how hung up he was on the Hemi.

The DRCE3 head (WJ's choice) and the Mopar head are closest regarding valve rotation, the Mopar block is longer than the GM blocks though, a slight disadvantage.

Why is the mopar block longer? The bore spacing is the same...and IIRC, the rear overhang is very close.

Just wondering.

Well, WJ certainly nailed what the Camaro looks like.

This is one of the few times I can say i agree with what WJ has said.

Not sure why, you'd think Mopar and Ford would have looked at what's winning races and learn from it (like Toyota did before casting their nascar blocks). Yes, all are 4.900" bore space, but left bank to right bank bore offset is more on the Mopar, and the Ford is even more IIRC.

More bore offset makes for a longer less rigid crank.

Toyota did not build there motor nascar told them here’s the block now copy it just like Mopar and GM when was the last time you looked at a small block Chevy and seen the dist in the front of the motor there all using a version of a ford block

You're right, I'm clueless.

Never said you were clueless

Well since the width of the rod journal, width of the connecting rod's big end and the bore offset are all interrelated just how many thousandths of an inch are we talking about?