Starting to work on the Duster

This car has been sitting in my shop for the past 5 years gathering dust. I had it for sale for $4900 but didn't get any offers so I figured maybe I'll just put it together. I have the Car Craft 470 engine sitting on the stand (700 hp, pump gas) and I have a 727 trans. The car has a new S60 rearend with Ford disc brakes, split mono leafs and Cal tracs.

After dusting off that Duster and getting it breathing again, the offers may start to pour in. But then again, you just might be having too much fun with 700 horses in a A Team body like that to be worth trying to get rid of it.

I give you credit Andy as you still have the get up and go. I wish I could find some. Can't wait to follow your progress on this one.

I would have love to buy it but I'm on the wrong side of the planet these days

Very cool project

That is a very nice looking ride. Nice to see that 470 going to use. Please keep us in the loop. I enjoy all your posts.

The car is completely gutted so it would be a big chore to put it back together. That guy I got the car from had just started to build a race car when he ran into some personal problems and had to sell everything. Since I didn't take it apart I'm kind of lost in some areas.

But I figure it doesn't all have to go back together anyway. I'm just going to put it together enough to get it running. It will be very unfinished when I'm finished with it!

I guarantee it will be back up for sale in the future. I don't really have the room (or time) for multiple car projects so once I get this thing running and driving I'll need to sell it.

Nice lookin A-Body Andy.............

What kind of inspiration did you get to start again? I'm 3/4s done on my 70 Duster and can't seem to get motivated either, maybe it's the heat and humidity. I just sat and looked at it for about a hour yesterday then went back in the house. Do we all go thru this as we get older? My hats off to you.

Sitting and looking is actually building in your mind. By that I mean, you are rehearsing the procedures and time line to start the project.
I call it a STUDY. A study is usually created in mind or on paper/canvas as a template for the actual painting that is to come.
Yes, being older does not have the urgency to things that a rambunctious youth is compelled to do. If anything, older individuals should be the ones in a hurry to finish off projects with limited time left. LOL.

I had been getting burned out with my project, but then a friend said he wants to see it ready this time next year, so lately I've been working my tail off to get stuff done. A deadline helps the motivation.

Nice ride Andy. Like the color on that car.

NICE

Cool beans. I forgot you had that!

It is a long story but the short version is that I need to get some projects finished or sold so I can downsize in the near future. The city is going to annex our property and I'll lose my shop. So if I'm going to get stuff done I need to get rolling on it now. I hauled a couple of pickup loads of stuff to the swap meet at Woodburn yesterday and sold most of it so that frees up some space and some money. I'll recycle that money into the Duster to finish it up so I can sell it before I lose the shop.

I was just going to sell the Duster but it is gutted and incomplete so most folks are scared off by a project that big. I'm pretty sure that if I hit it full time I can have it running within a few weeks and then it will be easier to deal with.

I was really, really, REALLY tempted but don't have the room without infringing on some friends shop space. When you took the ad down, I thought "Good, the temptation is gone". Gutted or no, seems like a good deal for $4900!

How come the windshield bars are cut? Just curious...

I prefer drag type street cars anyway. I was also tempted.

I like it, looks all business.

The guy that did the cage screwed up the front bars and made the car really difficult to work on. They were too far back and got in the way of everything. It was kind of the last straw for the guy who sold the car to me. He had saved up his money to build a race car but the guy who did the cage ruined the car. So his money was gone and his car was worse off than before. He just gave up and sold out.

I'll have to fix the bar somehow. I haven't figured it all out yet but I think I can cut off the front bars and just run the rear 6 point cage and be legal at 10 seconds. I need to research it a bit more to know for sure. Worst case is the entire cage needs to meet the whiz wheel and I start over with a new 6 point setup. I do not intend to make it 9 second legal.

Just to get a starting point I put the car up on the scales. Obviously the car isn't complete so I added weight to estimate where I'd end up. I put a battery in the trunk as well as the fuel pumps and then added 35 lbs of ballast for the fuel. I put weight in the driver seat for a driver and I put the starter, water pump and stuff like that in a box on the front fender. The radiator is in place but it is dry. The car is missing a driveshaft and the torque convertor so I'm light there.

Anyway it comes out to 2800 lbs as is so I'm thinking I should be able to go down the track at less than 3000 lbs. I need to add wiring and plumbing and a front windshield so I know I'm light, but I don't think I'm more than 200 lbs light.

Interesting thing was the weight distribution. Looks almost perfectly square front to back and side to side. I'll keep an eye on the corner weights as I build the car. Love to see it go down the track with a 50/50 weight distribution. That should help it hook......

An honest 700 HP @ 3,000#
You may as well put the 10 point in and get it over with....

Yep your gonna have to slow that down by around .5 sec to get into the 10's

Looks like a fun project!!

After reading comments about downsizing and losing the shop over the last couple months, it's good to know what you were talking about. Really sounds like a sticky situation and I hope it comes out in your favor!

Just like mine, 10.80s no quicker. Cut out the halo and front down bars. Do you have X side bars? I tied the front frame bar into those. If tens are doable then the down bars can always be put in rather easily. Can you really tell the difference between a 10.20 and a 9.70? Keep it slow and fun to get in and out of, no net, no cert.

Yeah but I'm sure the 727 and Dana 60 are going to suck up a bunch of power and the 700 hp was with cold air for the carb and dyno headers dumping into a very low restriction muffler system.

I also plan on driving the car to the track so that means street legal rear tires and the front suspension has to be up in the air a bit more than a pure drag car.

But yeah, if it ends up around 3000 lbs wet with driver even 600 hp will push it right to the 10.00 line. The car has 4.56 gears with 345/55-15 tires so it will go thru the lights at around 135 mph at 7000 rpm. Should be a fun ride if it all works out. We dyno tested the engine to 7000 rpm so it will pull it. The peak power was around 6800 rpm so it should pull to the stripe. Guess some of it depends on how good the converter is. I don't know much about torque converter so I'll have to study up on them.

Please tell me the overhead crane is staying!

Time to move farther out of town I guess.

The duster looks nice, I like white.

Sorry to hear you are losing space your shop always impressed me in various pictures over the years.

I'm thinking the duster needs a stick!

It is a manual shift car with the manual shift pedals. I suppose I could pull the Doug Nash out of my Coronet and put it in the Duster!

The Doug Nash is kind of a crude tranny for a street car anyway. But I think that is way more work that I'm interested in. I'll just swap out the 4 speed pedal box for an auto pedal box and be done with it. Besides, if I put the Doug Nash in the Duster I'm sure I'd be busting parts right and left.

A Lenco would be cool but not really in scope.

I have a brand new ST1200 4-speed here for my black Charger...bucket list material for sure.

Something about an appliance white, big tire, 4-speed street-strip Duster speaks to me.

Why do you say the Nash is crude for a street trans? Straight cut gears?

Very cool Duster Andy...just sold mine last month, but I am in the works
right now to possibly get another one (72) this time!

Youll get the fever for a lenco after watching steve clukey's duster on youtube. Its a ladder bar car with mostly stock suspension except the chassis engineering shocks. Runs a n/a sb thats close to 800hp now. Car has been in the 8's. Check it out.

You just can't go wrong with a Duster.

Sounds like every project car I've ever owned!!

One thing to remember about a roll bar vs roll cage is tubing diameter. With a 6 pt bar the bars (atleast the main hoop) is required to be larger in diameter than if you have a entire cage. I forget the actual tubing size, but if the cage was a kit for a 10 pt cage than cutting out the bars may not make the 6 pt portion legal.

I was thinking that too, 1 3/4 min OD for roll bar tubing, 1 5/8 for cages, so if the cage is 1 5/8, it will not be legal as a 6 point.

Real nice lookin Duster Andy, very cool.

Keep us updated with your progress (y)

my best friend always says : "our hourglass is quickly running out of sand....." how true, how true. then, he goes on to distract me from my projects to his ! but that's what friends are for, right ?

Might be wrong, don't have rule book in hand right now. Mild steel 1-5/8 x.120 dom, CM .083 x 1-5/8, welded seam type 1-3/4 x .134 wall. Side bars, if X, then 1-1/2 x .065, if single, same as hoop, seat bar 1/14 x .065

As far as I can tell if you have a 5 point (or 6 point) roll bar then the main hoop needs to be 1 3/4. That is good to 10.00.

The 8 point cage can be 1 5/8 mtl and is required if you get into the 9's.

The main hoop on this cage is 1 5/8 so I think I'm just going to cut the whole thing out and start over.

Any recommendations for a roll bar kit? I see that Jeg's has them, Art Morrison, Comp Engineering, etc. From what I can tell all of the kits are really crude with no fishmouthing on the tubes or anything like that. It is basically just a bunch of straight tubes in a box plus the main hoop. The rest is DIY.

www.swracecars.com

I have put 2 of Chris Alston Chassisworks kits in A-bodies. I think they do a good job for a decent fit especially the main hoop AND side door-bar fit. I have helped install a Jeg's kit in an A-body...it fit poorly. It would be nice and package easier (save time with tin) if you had the rear bars bent to go thru the speaker package tray and weld them down near where a shock crossmember could be intersected. For future owner of course. Call BondoBob...I'd bet he would bend and pre-fit a cage and drop it in the mail..worth a call anyway.

Used a Chris Alston kit in my cuda. Fit pretty good. The chassis shop I used said those kits fit the best out of the pre bent kits you can buy.

I have use Alston CHassisworks kits in three A bodies. They fit decent but I had the rear bars bent to go through package tray, which required buying longer rear bars. Also had the front bars bent to better fit the door opening. My goal is to try and hide the cage as much as possible and I am fairly tall so I end up putting the main hoop back a ways too.

Thanks guys, sounds like I'll give Alston a call. They are west coast so that helps. I called Art Morrison the other day but they kind of blew me off so I'll move on.

I think I'm going to get the car running first and then I'll worry about the rollbar after I've figured out some other things. I need to get the seat mounted and sort out the steering wheel placement and the dash and then I'll know where to put the new roll bar.

Buddy of nine has installed several S&W kits and likes them over anything else for A body.

I used a 12 pt kit for my Duster back in 06 from Jegs. The 1st main hoop I got wasn't bend correctly. When laid flat on the garage floor the one side was 4"+ off the floor. I contacted them and they sent me another. It still wasn't perfect, but was workable. I got a 10 pt kit for my wife's falcon a few years ago from S&W and everything went together fairly well.

I have a S&W kit in mine as well. Installer never complained.

This car sits ready wit to me with a nice size tire at that. I would bet it to be an excellent starting platform for whom ever gets it.
Looking at the Coronet in the background, one may wonder what kind of animal that will be.

Finally got some stuff cleared out and blew away the cobwebs so I could shoot a picture of the interior. Like I said, this car is gutted!

I'm not going to put much back in the car. Pedals obviously and a steering column and the top part of the dash with the dash pad and the VIN. That is about it, bare bones.

Good thing is that it is fairly clean. No rust problems to speak off and nothing has been hit or tore up. Just a few extra holes in the firewall that people drilled over the years but that is not a big deal.

I need to figure out a steering column for this thing. I looked around and Jegs has a simple tube with bearings and a steering shaft. The shaft is set up for a quick release steering wheel on the driver side, can't really tell what is going on on the other end.

Anyone have a race type steering column that they used and liked? I'm guessing that I'll need to weld a Mopar spline adapter on to the box end then shorten the shaft to length and weld the quick release on the driver end?

I'll need turn signals but maybe I need to mount up an old time box on the column. I suppose you can still buy those old turn signal switch boxes.

Andy, thats the same column kit I put in my car last winter and I like it, plenty of material to set the wheel where you want,also comes with a short piece of moly tube and a smooth bore universal so it can work with a rack and pinion steer, I also had to order the mopar spline universal to attach the column to the stock gear box, the steering wheel hub is the multi spline set-up and not the hex style.

I was curious just what I was working with so I pulled out GG's book and decoded the fender tag.

1972 Duster with 225 engine and 3 speed manual with floor shift.
B1 paint code (Blue Sky) exterior with B5 (medium blue) interior
Bench seat, 2 watt AM radio with drip trough moldings

All of that I understand and can see evidence of here or there.

Then the interesting stuff:
A64 - Gold Duster package?
V4X - Black vinyl roof (Halo)?
V5X - Black body side moldings?

I do not see any evidence of the vinyl roof or the body side moldings so that stuff must have been taken off a long time ago and holes filled or something.

Might have been a nice looking car with the light blue paint and a black vinyl roof. I'll have to search around, I'm not sure I know what a Halo vinyl roof looks like but I'm sure I can find pictures.

Halo = half (partial) of the top
I've seen and possibly owned one as a parts car

It's so awesome starting with a clean base project. Seeing that pic makes me have "non-buyers" regret...

With the dash and all the interior out of the car I would suggest you put a cage in the car, not just a roll bar. Then you could have more options.

Looks like a good excuse to buy a bender. I am sure you can find other parts to make with it.

It was a good deal at $4900 since it came with a bunch of spare parts. But I'm having fun working on it myself and I'm learning a bunch.

Since I didn't take the car apart it is a bit of an Easter Egg hunt putting it back together.

If you don't mind me asking, how much do those digital scales cost, looking to invest in a set like it.
On the roll bar, I found out mine are too small, now ill have to do the full cage( 2 down bars and a halo) anyway they say it'll be better for resale.

Andy, just curious if you had any issues with your cross link bar hitting outer edges of your oil pan when turning the wheel?

My digital scales set me back about $700 beans.

I think I paid around $500 for them but I might not remember correctly since they now cost around $1000. But then again, I think I bought these scales more than 10 years ago so perhaps the price has doubled over time.

Yes, very common with BB A body oil pans. You need one of the pans that has the relief area for the idler arm or you modify the pan like this.

Yes. That pan would make things alot easier. It would have to be notched on both sides thou as my cross link hits pan at the bend on each end of the cl bar.

I need that pan also, my drag link just hits on the passenger side when turning right. I used a big socket and a big hammer, I was afraid I was gonna split the pan open as I had to really hit it a lot.

If i remove the cross link i could do the same, but im afraid of putting a hole in the pan too. Ill figure this out later. Need to drive it first.

Hahaha...... cant help it. Gotta laugh at you guys putting big blocks in your A bodies, when a 4 inch plus arm small block will likely run just as good and be a 1/10 the hassle, especially when building a high 9 sec or slower car most likely.

Rant over .... lol😀😀😀

A 408 with old school w2s will go low 10s. But I also have built a big block Dart. I loved it, then sold it

Starting to get some parts for the Duster. New radiator support from US Car Tool and some cool EFI goodies from Holley.

I didn't have any small bolt pattern jack stands so I had to take a break from the car to build a set. I like using the bolt on jack stands since it frees up some room to work. You don't have to fight to get around the tire.

Those are great. You are a master for sure.

The brackets that Kirkey make didn't come close to fitting this car (looks like they are designed for a flat floor type of car) so I took a shot at making my own brackets. This is the first attempt and it works but I'm going to do a slight redesign. I used 10 ga stainless rather than aluminum and I can feel the difference. Feels nice and solid when I sit in it.

I also got the EFI harness all laid out so I could start planning the install. This is a universal harness with COP so I can run 8 coils. I sent the intake to Wilson (hopefully their shop isn't destroyed by Irma). Once the intake is back I'll get the engine buttoned up and start the wiring and plumbing for the EFI system.

But you are going to use your cam-sync and crank trigger instead of the distributor, right? And I would suggest using two O2s.

Andy, is this going to be a street car only or street and strip?

Yes, I'll use the crank trigger and cam sync setup on this engine rather than distributor.

I probably will add a second O2 sensor since the Dominator allows me to. Just have to buy the extra harness and a second sensor.

I think it is going to end being a hard core street/strip car. No heater, no defrost, no AC, manual steering, manual brakes. Not sure about carpeting. No back seat, no passenger seat, it does have a headliner in it. No wipers but it should have working lights. No horn. So not really 100% street legal but might be able to cruise it without hassle as long as I'm not making a scene.

Nothing says the next owner can't add some creature comforts back to it but right now the car is gutted and it isn't a high priority for me to add stuff like that.

Car Craft article: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/project-car-intro-the-dustbin-duster-part-1/

Nice article ... and there's another good use for the gantry crane!! Have you ever thought about suspending a whole car from the crane so you could move it to wherever you need it in the shop? Who needs GoJaks when you have a crane like that!

I thought Wilson Manifolds was in Cali but they're in Fort Lauderdale ... Bummer.

On 9/12 they posted on FB:

We're Open!

After a long and stormy weekend, we made it through Irma and are back on track!
Thank you to all who reached out to us during and after the hurricane. We are grateful to have not sustained any damage and to have power today.
We wish all of Florida a speedy recovery during this time.
#FloridaStrong

Please bear with us as we are experiencing technical difficulties with our phone lines currently.

*Call / Email / reach us HERE on FB for any inquiries or orders!*
(954)-771-6216
Wilsonmanifolds.com

andy are those front spring hanger brackets in the trunk? you planning to redo that?

I am planning to cut out the existing front hangers and to replace them with hangers that I made. I don't like the front hangers that are on the car right now. Problem is that I don't think I can do that job myself so I need to get the car over to a chassis shop so they can help me do the heavy work. I'm more of an engine guy than a chassis guy so I don't have all of the big tools to cut, grind and weld a frame.

I pulled the cover off the S60 rearend to check it out. This is a brand new rear end that DoctorDiff built about 6 or 7 years ago. Never any lube in the rearend so the setup marks can still be seen. 4.56 gears with a Detroit Locker. Should be a fun ride once I get it going.

I agree that a CM cage should be installed from the start."J" bars and a mid plate too.That way it's DONE and the next caretaker can go right to 8.5 with it.
I saw a car with the truck directional switch and I didn't like it.Might consider a stock column gutted like Doug.

I think I have the alternator mount figured out so one more item to check off the list. Oil pump, oil pan, filter all seem to fit also so that is good.

I think I have the transmission all sorted out too. Turbo Action built a torque converter for me and I picked up a SFI flex plate from B&M. Everything seems to fit together once I pawed thru my bolt drawer and found the correct bolts. I don't usually do run an automatic so I had to dig around a bit to find flex plate bolts.

I cut the column down and installed a Flaming River u-joint. I think I have the steering wheel position close enough for now. The seat can be adjusted so I'll just have to try it and see if everything feels right.

Next project is to locate the shifter and get it hooked up. Takes a lot of work when you build these things from the ground up! Not the same as just bolting them back together.....

Keep in mind that the factory coupling is a slip-joint put in place to allow the front of the car to flex around without jamming the steering column all to heck. It might be possible to build in that degree of freedom under the dash or just let the shaft 'telescope' to allow for it.

Andy is your coupler welded to the shaft or just pinned ? Gary

The Flaming River u-joint is held on with a roll pin.

Andy,

Looking good, thanks for sharing the build.

Could your seat brackets be a possible product?

That "Pivot Plate" looks neat, never seen one before.

Bill

I can make more seat brackets if people want them. I don't think I'll make the rails though since I'm not sure what all they would fit. The brackets would fit on any flat floor.

If you have a stock floor then you need to make it flat somehow. I made rails from aluminum bar stock and bolted the rails to floor. The rails gave me two flat areas to bolt the brackets to.

Yeah the Pivot Plate is a nice tool. It only takes me a few minutes to install the engine and trans using that pivot plate. You just tilt the whole assembly down to go in and then slowing rotate it back to level as you clear the K frame and tie rod. The engine and trans can then be raised just enough to install the motor plate and transmission crossmember and then you drop it in place and tighten up the bolts. I think it took me less than 5 minutes to slide the engine and trans into place last time.

Check out

American Autowire 500148 Turn Signal Toggle Switch

Thats what I used for my car. Didn't want the old turn signal box switch on side of the column

The intake is back from Wilson so now I can start installing the EFI system.

Driveshaft from Doctor Diff showed up the other day. Super high quality setup, looks great.

thats a thing of beauty!

Do you have manifold vacuum(KPA) vs barometer KPA readings from your dyno pulls? My 416 pulls some vacuum on that same throttle body. Its about 4-6 KPA and some people say its worth nothing and some people say they picked up 30HP swapping to a larger throttle body when seeing vacuum.

Looks like Wilson did a nice job on the manifold.

Not on this engine. Not sure if I'll run this engine on the dyno or not, might just fire it up in the car and go from there. This engine has been on the dyno before but not with the EFI setup. On my 514 there was a little bit of manifold vacuum even with a 2000 cfm throttle body. I'm not going to worry about it on the Duster though since it probably has enough beans to run 9's and I'm only putting a rollbar in it. I'll most likely have to throttle stop this engine to stay legal at the track.

I've been trying to figure out the rear shock mounts since I got the car. The car came with Rancho shocks but they were about 6 inches too long to fit. I bought the shorter shocks from Calvert but they were still too long. Finally decided to build my own shock plates to make it work. While I was designing the plate I decided to change the lower shock mount to a double shear rather than the cantilever pin. The double shear is stronger and easier to put together. Just push the bolt thru the bracket rather than trying to twist the shock on over the upper and lower pins. Here are a couple of pictures of the first prototype. I think this design will work so now I just need to refine it and make some more.

Had to build my own throttle bracket to clear the EFI rails. Not too tough of a job for me since I've been making throttle brackets for the last 20 years....

I'm enjoying your threads. Thanks for taking the time to post and upload pics

No problem, glad you are enjoying the thread. I'm working a few hours a day on the Duster so it just keeps moving along. The work isn't going super fast but I'm making progress every day.

Here are a couple more shots of the rear shock plates. I put the lower eye bolt in a location that gave me more than an inch of extension left at full droop and roughly 2.5 inches of compression at ride height. This should be close enough for now and I can tweak it once I get the car running.

Some pretty sharp looking brackets, are those laser cut and cnc formed? we have those machines where I work and they do an awesome job and spot on accurate.

Andy,

do you still have the Hemi billet timing covers?

Thanks

I get all of my stuff laser cut but I bend on a manual brake. I don't have the money to afford a CNC brake press.

Yes, standard product on the shelf. Mancini Racing or Hughes Engines should be able to get you one

Are you going to reinforce the upper mount?

LPW makes some nice stuff!

Second article is posted on the Hot Rod website: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/the-dustb...-marker-lights/

The fenderwells are cut out on this car for headers so I made a small patch panel to hold the coils. Not sure if I'm going this way or not but I might. It seems like it will work.

I also made a two piece cover for the heater hole. That way I could put a grommet in it and hold the bundle of cables for the EFI box. This seems like it will tidy things up and cover up the big hole in the firewall at the same time.

Looks great Andy! Just a thought. You might want those coils mounted low as most BB's have the plug wires happier going from the bottom up.

Yeah I thought about putting them on the frame rail but there are problems with that also. I'm going to wait until after I get some headers to make a final decision on coil mounting.

Headers are here from TTI. Not sure these suckers are going to fit! This is what TTI wanted me to run on the car so I'll see if I can get them on there.

Great idea fender mounting those coil packs

Thanks for that tip, 27$ at summit. Could mount the switch on the column as well

I'm mocking up the coil packs with the TTi headers and for the passenger side it looks like the cleanest solution appears to be if I mount the coils on the valve cover and then loop short plug wires down between the tubes.

The driver side might not be as simple........

Might be a pain to check lash. You could mount the packs on that huge motor plate and maybe profile the plate to the coils? I have those headers on a low deck A-body and they are no fun. Makes things ultra difficult to work on. The starter was the least of it. Save yourself some time and keep the engine and trans. bolted up before you install in the car then let the heartache begin. I couldn't drop the motor in from the top with the headers on it on mine. I think I left the drivers side loose and married the pass. side as it went in. Your cut out core support may allow you to get lucky there.

Yeah I can see that these headers will be painful for any sort of maintenance. Replacing the starter is probably a half day job with these headers in the way. And it looks like pulling the trans out of the car will require moving the headers out of the way.

I'll keep looking at different options for the coil packs but right now I'm leaning towards putting them on the valve covers. Pulling the covers isn't that bad, just unclick the connectors and the plug wires and then pull the cover off. The coils come with the cover so you don't have to mess with them.

I don't know Andy? That #1 exhaust pipe isn't going to cooperate too well with the wires on that side...

I suggest removing the torsion bars for the install, no big deal, keep the bars lubed up for easy removal by hand. Make a pigtail battery cable connection for starter so you can have it wired to starter when installing headers. I use studs on the outer bolt holes for the headers and loosen up all bolts and can get tranny out without completely removing headers.

Id suggest having a custom set of headers made. I have had those TTI's on a few customer cars and they are a PITA especially on a racecar where things are changed periodically. Anytime you need the trans out to work on it or swap a converter you will hate them. Not impossible to do but definitely WAY more work than it should be....

I think I have it figured out. Will most likely require some custom wires from Gorski though to make it come out clean.

Yeah, these are big suckers. They tucked them in close to everything which is great if you never have to work on it.

Did you have them in the car yet? I'm fighting with an older 2" set right now in my dart with low deck and the trick flows.

Very cool build Andy. I had 2" cppa (tti) on my old 71 Demon and they were a bear to get in and out. They looked good once in (one weekend later), but pray you don't need to do any maintenance. What about the Mazzoloni headers that are a partial fender exit? Those always seemed like a better option for a shelf BB A body header.

I would look at the Maddog headers. very easy install and starter removal doesn't look too bad.

Bolting up the starter was the least of the nitemare. It's nearly impossible to get to the trans. linkage with the collectors in the way. Nearly impossible to bolt the top bell housing bolts. You have to get creative with the engine and trans. dipstick. The factory steering coupler won't work. Should I continue?

Yeah I see what you mean. I put the driver's side header in today and it was a grade A nightmare to install. I had to get the car way up in the air and then use the bridge crane to lift the engine so I could wiggle the header in from below. Looks like they are designed to be installed on a lift.

I think the best way to R&R the car will be to drop the K frame, then drop the headers, then pull the engine and trans as a unit out the front. For assembly the engine and trans slide in from the front, trans linkage is installed, starter bolts in, and then the headers. Once the headers are in place the K-frame with suspension and brakes is lifted up and bolted in place.

Kind of sucks to have to pop the ball joints and bleed the brakes every time the engine comes out but I'm thinking those are the hoops to jump thru.

Just keep fighting! My dart has a trans. leak and I ain't going anywhere near it for awhile. Not until I do my hand and finger aerobics for a month or so...I don't know how many times I got out from underneath the car and just swore up and down that I would beat the living God out of it when I got it running! I make good on my promises and it's a hoot!

Yep. My 1 7/8 TTI's were alot of trouble to install as well. The Maddogs go in 1 tube at a time. Way easier.

The tti website says their headers will not fit with head studs. Actually they fit just fine with head studs as long as you use the ARP 2.725 long studs. I wrote this up in my BB book about 10 years ago but evidently not everyone paid attention.........

I think it will work just fine to loop the plug wires up to the coils on the valve cover. I need to get Rick at Firecore to make me some sample wires to make sure it all fits but I've mocked it up a couple of times and it seems okay.

I think it will be equally difficult for 1,3,5 and 7

The Maddog site only lists ford / chevy headers ??

I'm pretty sure that plug wires are going to be the least of my worries but it will be a couple of weeks before I have the parts in hand to prove it.

Back to working on the rear end. The Dana 60 was not welded to the perches and it wasn't in the correct location when I got the car so I'm working on getting everything properly aligned. First off, that Dana 60 is a beast! I tried to move it around with a floor jack but that didn't work. I'm working by myself so I don't have any help to move heavy stuff around. I finally gave up and designed a little mount for my trans jack so I can safely move the Dana 60 around. With this jack mount I can rotate, tilt, lift, shift etc. and get the housing into the correct location by myself.

Looks good Andy
I want one now

Yeah dont know whats up with that. May make a call and see. They did have mopar headers on their site not long ago as i was looking at them.

You have lot's of other things to think about. I was trying to challenge you a little to think outside the box on the coils. Did you ever get the shifter rods to work?

I dropped the front suspension out of the car so I could install the headers. 5 minute job once the K frame is out of the car. With the suspension out of the car I used the body wheels from US Car Tool to support the car. I think I'll eventually get a process figured out for working on this car but it is going to take some time (and money)! The big headers and the big Dana 60 rearend really chew up the space at both ends of the car. Maintenance becomes a hassle. I understand why guys just go ahead and step up to tube chassis cars with removable panels and all of that.

With my new Dana 60 cradle I can wheel the assembly in and out of the car pretty quickly now. Guess it is just an example of having the right tool for the job. In this case I had to design the tool myself but guess that is how it works sometimes.

Starting to work on the trunk area. I think I have it all figured out now in terms of where the fuel cell goes and how to plumb up the fuel system.

Got the trans cooler mounted to the bottom of the trunk floor and installed. Also picked up a CSR shield and a Moroso pan for the trans.

Got the ears cut off the trans so the CSR shield would fit and I welded in a couple of crossmembers under the trunk floor to hold everything nice and secure back there.

andy, could you show a side pic [if you have one] of the transmission cooler spacing to the trunk floor ? i'm guessing the fan is blowing up towards the bottom of the trunk floor ? thanks !

I think the fan pulls air down thru the core. There is a fairly large air gap between the radiator core and the bottom of the trunk floor. The Derale cooler comes as an assembly, you just bolt it on.

https://derale.com/products/fluid-cooler...ling-pan-detail

I built a fixture for my floor jack so I can hold the entire front suspension setup. This allows me to just pull the K frame bolts and drop it out. I can stash the front suspension in a corner of the shop until I'm ready to put it back in and then just lift it into place with the trans jack.

That one is gonna need an ARxxx part #.

It is a super handy tool but I doubt I'd sell very many of them. Besides, the shipping cost would be really high. I could sell a "u weld it" kit though and guys could make their own from a piece of tubing.

Andy, did you choose a fuel cell yet? Call me if not. Great work. Such a clean and well-thought out build.


https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/product/20g-eliminator-stealth-fuel-cell/

Decided to install a new Strange pinion yoke with an 8 magnet trigger wheel. This will give me driveshaft speed as well as a signal for the speedometer. Maybe even an odometer? Or I might use GPS for the odometer, not sure yet.

One problem I ran into is that this pinion yoke is 1/2 inch longer than the yoke that was on there so now I'll need to shorten my brand new driveshaft.

Starting to mock up the front brakes. This car has the original 4 piston disc brakes on the front but I don't think they will be up to the task of stopping the car. So I'm thinking that I'll pull the factory disc brakes off the car and sell them and then put these 13 inch rotors with Viper calipers up front. DoctorDiff sells the parts to do this swap so I'll work with him to get it all figured out.

We used the stock OEM 1967 to 1972 Kelsey Hayes four piston calipers, pads and rotors on my old 1970 bracket Duster with all three motors, SB, M.W. 440 Wedge and the cross ram M.P. 426 race hemi motor that ran 142.+ MPH in the 1/4 mile with no issues stopping it any where
That was not on the street in traffic either
Way better to have way more brakes on the car than you need, huh

Whats the silver steel round tab for, to hold the driveshaft wheel sensor? Might not be the best place for it. Might try to act like a snubber.

No, that is the lift hook so I can move the rear end around.

great read and a great build, id suggest a differant fuel pump, the holleys arent any good, got a buddy that had a car built and the pump was a failure from initail startup, shop that installed it has 5 other bad ones in the shop .

I guess I'll take my chances. I have a Holley pump in the dyno cell and it has been working fine since day one. I like the integrated regulator and filter combo that Holley sells too even though other people tell me not to use it.

I've had a Holley Volumax pump for over ten years in the Challenger with more than 1,500 passes!

Got the DoctorDiff 13 inch front brake kit mocked up on the Duster. Looks killer. Now I need to figure out which wheels to buy. I'll need a 17 inch rim that is probably 6 inches wide. Weld makes some race 17 inch rims so I might go with them.

If you end up selling the front discs, I might be interested. There may be an A-body coming home soon. Nowhere near as clean as yours, though.
I am always amazed by your fabrication skills. I need to learn to whip up stuff I need rather than buying it. Well done. This is a fun thread.

Well Id look to keep the front wheel as narrow as possible. Weld sells 17" front race wheels as well as other...

I'm thinking I'll use a 17x6 wheel with a 205/55-17 tire but I haven't nailed it down yet. The car had a 15x6 wheel on it before with a 205/60-15 tire so my new combo will be roughly the same, just a little taller. I thought the old tires were a little too short.

I was reading over the post and initially you were going to get it running and sell it. Has the goal changed?

Let's just say the goal posts have moved. Sponsor money means I need to put a lot more effort into the project.

Sponsor money??,, Just where have the Goal Posts moved to. I hope that means not only adding a lot of Sponsored parts, but using all those combined parts and maybe running this Duster down the track.

Your engine building Hp producing dyno skills are Stellar. Maybe we will get to see your skills of applying that Hp down the track in the sponsored Duster???

I hope that's where the new Goal Post has moved .

Couldn't you just move the rear back 1/4" and the drivetrain forward 1/4" and not cut that beautiful drive shaft Just put a spacer on the front spring hanger and call it good

Gus

[quote=fourgearsavoy][quote=AndyF]Decided to install a new Strange pinion yoke with an 8 magnet trigger wheel. This will give me driveshaft speed as well as a signal for the speedometer. Maybe even an odometer? Or I might use GPS for the odometer, not sure yet.


No need to use a GPS for the odometer. The same trigger wheels signal sent to a Electronic programmable speedometer actuates both MPH and odometer miles. You may even be able to Share the signal from just one pick up to feed your both your Electronic Speedometer and your other driveshaft race pac system.

Autometer sells Electronic programmable speedometers. The one I bought was the ATM 1388, for like 130 bucs. registered MPH and odometer miles with the same signal. Installed it on a 38ft, oil well swab truck, Pretty trick for a rig like that.


Further, programing it wasn't that complicated as you would think. You would think that you would have to consider Rear gear ratio and tire size, to figure all the math out.

Nope, all that was needed was to go measure out a mile with a vehicle and mark it, then get at the start line, with the rig, hit the programming button on the speedo, and drive to the measured mile, re hit the program button, and you done. .

I couldn't think of a good alternative to cutting the driveshaft so I shipped it back to Strange. They only charge $80 to shorten the driveshaft so I figured that was the cost I had to pay for changing my mind.

The engine and rear end location are fairly well locked in at this point. The headers are so big that they dictate where the engine has to be and the rear leaf hangers have been welded into the frame so there is no easy way to move them. The rear tires are very large and the tubs were built around them so I don't think I want to move the rear axle.

I haven't figured out the programming end of it yet but the plan at the moment is to run this car without any gauges. I'll just use the digital dash from the EFI system and push all of the data thru it. So the digital dash will have driveshaft RRP and a speedo if I can figure it out and an odometer if I can figure it out.

I've torn out the dash and will not install anything other than a bracket for the LCD. I think I'll also have a starter button and a ignition switch and maybe a headlight switch. Everything else will be controlled by the EFI.

the holley efi and dash uses a seperate gps piece that mounts on the dash for the speedo doesent it?

I got a new Car Craft magazine yesterday with the what I think is the first installment of Andy's "Dustbin Duster" series.

As you would expect it is well written with lots of photos, many of which Andy has shared with us here.

That's a pretty good plug for Car Craft. Now i'm going to go out and buy a copy.

The Holley digital dash has the odometer function built in as long as you have a driveshaft signal.

I have a driveshaft signal and a new EFI product to add to the list. I tooled up a stainless steel bracket that bolts to the Dana 60 pinion snubber mount and holds a Holley flying magnet sensor.

One odd thing is the Holley instructions for the 554-125 sensor have been updated and now say to not use that sensor as a driveshaft sensor. I wonder why they did that? If the driveshaft has a flying magnet on it then it seems like it would work just fine.

They are probably concerned about the magnet setup. The one that comes with the 554-125 is heavy and you should really have at lease 2 magnets. Just hard to set up.

I always use the FAST 301436 (2 magnet) or one of the ones from Motorsprts Innovations.
http://www.motorsportsinnovations.com/Holley/holley-efi-sensors.html

Or if you really want resolution go 18 pulses per rev from:
https://www.motionraceworks.com/uploads/5/3/8/0/53809729/motion-raceworks-dsss-instructions.pdf

I poked around the forums a little more and it looks like the MSD 2348 sensor is the way to go. It is slightly bigger 1/2 inch thread but it is fairly inexpensive at $60 and it has a built in LED which tells you if it is working or not. So I'm going to order one of those and see how it works.

Got the Holley fuel pump today and mounted it in the fuel cell. I think this is a slick setup. Cleans up the trunk area for sure.

andy, what does the knob on the top of the pump do ?

Power knob!

Actually that is the fill port. Just big enough for a funnel or a nozzle on a gas station pump.

Looks like a great set up Andy. Did you get the 450L pump and did it come with the Fuel line fittings?

So that pump unit replaces the original fill plug?

Yes, I got the 450L (110 GPH) unit. The fittings were not included.

Yep. Just unbolt the old twist knob and drop in the fuel pump. Took me about 20 minutes to do it. It is a really slick setup. I think it is a great idea.

that is a neat setup ! and the "power knob" is a very necessary item to have. i wasn't paying too much attention [as always] to the installation location in the cell.

I'm trying to figure out the best place to mount the engine so I rigged up a locator with a 10 ft piece of tubing. There is a bushing in the tailshaft and bracket on the front of the block that centers the tube in the main bores. Now I can see if the engine is square to the frame and if it is pointed at the rear end. I'm also in the process of locating the rear end so this helps with that. It will also help me get the pinion angle dialed in.

I also decided to go with coils on the valve covers. (at least for now)

I had some brackets machined up and now I'll get the wire dimensions over to Custom Wire Rick. I think this will work out pretty good.

Thank you for posting the info and pics Andy- very helpful .

The TTI web site has specs on where they think the engine should be when using their headers. It's usually the headers that cause the most trouble.

Yes. Thank you Andy. I also always enjoy seeing the progress on your projects and the innovative ideas you put to use. Coming along nicely

x2

Right, I know where TTI wants the engine but I still need to make sure it is straight in the chassis and that the rear end is properly aligned. Sliding a tube thru the main lines makes it very obvious if the drive train is aligned or not.

Here is what it looks like in the car. I need to finish the plumbing and the wiring but this gives you the general idea of how it will look.

dang Andy- I think just seeing your bolt bins would be an adventure worth talking about!

Always such nice, clean, well thought out work.
Oh that I could do so well!

you and me both !

AndyF take and cut the flanges on the headers. Leave the 2 center tubes together and put a slip on collectors. Makes life so much easier. Can get the starter on and off with just removing 1 tube. Trans will come out with just removing 2 tubes on each side. Really makes it worth it.

It has taken me a long time but I think I'm finally ready to tack the spring perches to the axle tubes. When I got the car the rear end was bolted in place but the perches were loose. I had to get the car put together far enough that I knew where the engine was located and what the angle was so I could get the rearend in the correct location.

I had the engine mounted up a couple of months ago but then the headers arrived and they didn't fit so everything had to be moved around. If I was a chassis builder I'd go broke since I move so slow on this stuff. I suppose some of it is just experience and tools. I have to stop and build jigs or fixtures when ever I try to do something so that slows me down a bunch. Anyway, looks like I'm ready to nail down the engine position and the rear end position now. The 10 ft length of roll bar tubing thru the main bearings really helped me visualize how it fits together.

Thanks for taking the time to share the build! Keep going! Looks great!

don't feel bad andy, i'm even slower than you ! i have many, many fixtures and jigs for my humpback, from suspension parts to bushing and cover fixtures for the steering column, and everything in between. that's part of the reason it has taken me 40 odd years to now on this project. and i have a nasty habit to over analyze things. a lot. keep up the good work !

Well I finally figured out how to make the rear shock plates with the tabs for the Calvert bars and the double shear shock bracket. It took me a few tries to get it right but eventually I came up with a fixture and the correct laser program. Now it looks like everything is in the correct place and it all fits and should work. Getting all of this stuff fabbed up is a big step forward for me.

Each of the shock plates has 7 welds on it and I was throwing parts away since I couldn't get 7 good beads out of my welder. I've been fighting the welder for a few days then I finally figured out that the contact tip had worked itself loose. Once I tightened that back up the welder starter working perfectly. Had me pulling my hair out and cost me some time and and bunch of scrap. The recycle can will be heavy this week!

We are moving forward with your motor plate and using the Cal Tracs as well.
Your further along / started sooner.

Suggestions on an electric water pump and Altenator that might not blow my budget up?

As usual- your craftsmanship is truly excellent .

Got the Duster up on the body wheels and started taking off some of the undercoating. Getting ready to do some welding on the chassis and then it should start going back together. I did not intend to take it apart this far, but once I got into it I found I had to fix some stuff.

Still some assembly required.

Spent some time this morning building a battery box for the small battery. I decided to keep the battery under the hood. Wiring is simple that way and since the battery is only 18 lbs it seems like it isn't much of a penalty. We'll see how it works out.

Decided to try installing the engine and trans from below. Headers are installed, starter is in place, coils on the valve covers, etc. Basically a fully dressed engine.

I have the car on a set of casters so I just lifted the front end up in the air a bit and rolled the engine and trans underneath. Then lifted the engine and trans in from below and bolted it in. Everything cleared except for a couple of plug wires. The coils clear the frame rails by 1/2 inch on each side so you have to keep things lined up when lifting the engine in place. Headers clear by a bunch on each side.

Looks to me like this is the way to do it, especially with these huge headers. Once the engine is in place the headers are a pain to install.

The rear of the car is basically finished but I have a lot of work left to do at the front. Still need to fabricate some brackets, mount a bunch of parts and then start the process of wiring the car. Most of the plumbing is finished although I still need to sort out the radiator mounting and hoses.

Looks awesome Some serious street rubber back there just waiting to be planted

Nice work as usual

Gus

Looks good! Is that a 315 radial? Seems huge.

Man, a-bodies with massive rubber underneath sure look good.

Rear tires are 345/55-15 drag radials. The tires are a few years old, they came with the car when I bought it. Don't think that size is available anymore.

Andy- can you tell me what difference that mount made compared to the square /insert type?

Where to get one perhaps?

I'm starting to work on the wiring. Turns out that is quite a project just by itself. I'm going to rewire the entire car since it was gutted. I can buy new wiring harnesses for the lights but I'll have to build a dash harness.

One thing I came up with was a little copper bracket to tie the two posts on the starter together. I also mounted a stud on the bracket so I can bolt my starter cable on. This will make it easier to R&R the starter in the car. I think I'll make some more of these copper tie bars and list them on my site since anyone running a Ford type solenoid could use one.

pretty neat bracket idea andy !

Thats a nice idea as long as it doesn't hit the head tube or interfere with starter removal. Thats one of the nice things about the Maddog headers. I can reach right between tubes 5 and 7 to hook or unhook the starter wires from above. I do need to remove the draglink to get the sterter out thou.

I also drilled and tapped the fitting in the Moroso pan for a temp sensor. I'm using the newer style temp sensors that come on the EFI systems. It is a CTS (coolant temp sensor) with the two plug harness. These temp sensors seem to be really reliable and they are fairly inexpensive.

Got some patch panels welded in and finished running the plumbing for fuel and trans cooler. Now I'm working on the wiring as I get time.

Trunk is basically finished up with the fuel cell and plumbing. The trans cooler is mounted underneath the floor and it is wired and plumbed too.

Nice ...

Very nice work Andy. Question, have you covered in another thread what your thinking is concerning the pvc valve ? I see it's adjustable and I'm wondering if it adds horsepower which you'd see on the time slip. thanks

No I don't think a PCV valve adds any power, but on a street car it can help keep the engine clean. I'm going to try to see if I can get it set up to work on this engine but I might fail. I figure that starting with an adjustable PCV gives me a fighting chance of making it work.

Thanks, I have a good a document I found on an adjustable PVC. It' too big to upload though. PM me and I can email it to anyone who'd like to see it.

Fuel system article is published on the Hot Rod website: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/dustbin-duster-fuel-system-solution/

Nice progress. Loaded with new ideas for the rest of us!

Got the Doctor Diff Viper kit hung on the front. Brake lines are run and the suspension is back in the car. Getting ready to take the car over to the chassis shop next week for some work. New roll bar, some tin work, mount the dash, fix the core support, etc.

I have that Wagner PCV valve that I'm going to do some testing with. I'm not using it like a conventional PCV and Wagner knows it.

I've done a bit of testing with it, but not enough to say what I'm doing will work.

The new core support from US Car Tool is installed. I tweaked the design a bit so it would fit the C body radiator and I added dimple die hole on each side.

The new rollbar is in place. We put an X brace in the rear down tubes as well as the down bars behind the seat. The roll bar is Chrome Moly. The chassis guy did a really nice job on it. He also built new tin for the back seat area but it hasn't been finished up yet.

Which motor are you going to install since you sold the 470

I'm going to put the 512 out of my Coronet in the Duster. I have a 426W based stroker that is going into the Coronet.

With the new core support it looks like I have enough room to run a stock water pump and a clutch fan. Tight, but it all clears. Or I can ditch the clutch fan and run a nylon or aluminum mechanical fan. I'll have to take a look at some options.

Looking good Andy, lovin this build !

I also enjoy the car craft articles you do, good reading

Nice work. One of the perks of using a motor plate, you get to mock up your cooling system.

Yeah I was thinking I needed to drop the engine into the car to check the clearances then I realized that I could just bolt the motor plate in and use that. Saved me a lot of time.

Here is a shot of some of the extra bracing added to the front of the car. We also installed the torque boxes but those are a little harder to get a shot of.

I like that
Are you thinking of marketing them? If so I'll take a pair

Not my design, those come from US Car Tool: http://store.uscartool.com/A-Body-67-75-inner-fender-brace-kit.html

That's fast becoming a work of art Andy.
Nice stance that pup has.

Sometimes the simplest ideas are brilliant! I was thinking I would mock up cooling on my g3 swap while I was test fitting a bare block. Since I'm using a motor plate, AndyF has shown me the light! At the same time, I'm feeling like...."Duh, Doug".

The front spring hanger boxes that were on the car were thin and hacked up so I built some new ones from 0.188 steel and had the chassis shop install them. Here is a before and after.

Here is a better shot of the front chassis work showing the under fender bracing as well as the new core support.

I decided to see how things will fit together when using a DC type K frame rather than a motor plate. If this all lines up okay then I think I'll go this way. Need to see how everything fits but I like the old DC setup when using internal oiling.

Got some more parts hung on the engine. So far so good.

Looking great Andy !

The Pro Dash showed up. Now I just need to figure out how to get it mounted. It is pretty big when compared to the stock instrument cluster.

Got some more parts for the Duster today. A Milodon road race oil and a big anti-sway bar for the front from Hellwig. Both of these parts should help me on the street although the anti-sway bar might cost me a bit at the track.

Keep em coming Andy !

If you are running cal tracs with the solid bushings in the front you will probably find you don't need the front sway bar. I was very surprised at how much the solid spring eye bushings killed body roll when I put them on ages ago. My car doesn't have much body roll with cal-tac monos, /6 bars, and no sway bars. On drag week this year we went through lots and lots of sharp and curvy mountain roads. My car sits at about 4000-4100lbs on the road for drag week(gear plus passenger) and handling was of very little concern, I think the spool and skinny fronts run out of talent before body roll can become an issue. Just an FYI if you want to save the weight.

Are you installing a rear sway bar that is proportional to the new front sway bar?

Motor mounts? No motor plate?

I do not intend to add a rear sway bar. Yes on the motor mounts. I'm pretty sure that I'm going to switch over to the DC type K frame with spool mounts and not use the motor plate. I have some other things that I want to do in the engine compartment that won't work with a motor plate so I'm making the switch.

I hadn't thought of that. I'll keep on eye on how the rear bushings make the car feel.

Andy: You seem to have a great deal more header clearance than i do on the passenger side.
I'm using your motor plate , RB block, TTI that appear the same as yours and i set up with a bar as you have shown- even popped a centerline on the floor and checked with plumb bob- number 4 header tube almost touches the shock mount- did i get something wrong or is this pretty normal?

For the life of me I haven't figured out how to post pics.

Thanks for any info.

I'm no A body expert but it wouldn't surprise me at all to find that the sheetmetal location is different between various years and models.

TTI has the engine location on their website. They'll tell you where the center of the crank should be side to side and up and down. Best thing you can do is put the engine where TTI wants it and then just deal with any problems that pop up.

I've sold the 2 1/8 headers and I'm switching to 1 3/4 headers. The 2 1/8 headers physically fit on my car but they required a very time intensive process of installing and removing. For example, it required a couple of days of work to change the starter.

On my car given my tools the only way to remove or install the headers was to remove the K frame. So the car had to go up in the air and then the suspension and steering had to be pulled away so the K frame could be removed. Once the K frame was off the car then the headers went in and out with 5 minutes of work. TTI says the headers can be removed or installed from below if the car is on a two post lift. I don't have a two post lift so I had to pull the K frame. I came to the conclusion that I didn't need the big headers for what I was doing with the car.

Thanks Andy.
These are 2” headers and it’s straight as an arrow from crank crank centerline to rearend pinion nut .

Pretty tight on header opening on passenger side trans mount as well but I think part of that is the mount bushing is new ( red poly ) and seems to have pushed trans up a little higher than the bushing I mocked up with - lesson ?
Mock up with exactly what your using- grin.

Next : will you be selling those front spring hangers in the future?

Thanks.

I could make more of the front spring hanger boxes but there are several folks who already make them so it doesn't seem like a big winner for me to make them too. US Car Tool has some heavy duty spring hanger boxes and so do some other places.

The ones I made for my car were out of 0.188 steel so they are really stout. Probably thicker than they should be since the frame rail is a lot thinner than that. If I was going to make more of them I'd drop it down to 10 ga or maybe even 12 gauge so they would weld to the frame rail easier.

Rusty, Andy’s motor is a low deck........ so it will have more header clearance than your RB.

Looking at the picture of your engine sitting there ready to install; noticed you had coil on plug. What would it cost to change a regular engine over to this set up and would there be any benefit/gain for a mostly street w occasional strip use?

Coil on plug is just a natural evolution once you have multi-port fuel injection. The computer already has the ability to run COP so why not use it. COP solves a bunch of issues but it does create a few more. The OEM's have all gone to COP to get rid of the mechanical distributor and to get rid of long spark plug wires. On a race engine COP is nice since it allows you to adjust the timing for each cylinder. Also, really high HP engines need either COP or a mag in order to have enough energy to fire the coils.

Awesome work as always Andy.
Just a thought, you may want to add that fresh air vent back to the battery box side if you are still going to run the battery up front. It will help to keep the battery temp down a little with summer street driving.

Andy, isn't what you are showing actually Coil Near Plug and not Coil On Plug?

I know it's picking the pepper out of the fly poop but they aren't the same.

Agreed Dewayne: Plus we have 2 inch headers.
its tight.

Yes, technically CNP.

Got a new alternator kit mocked up in the Duster. This is a low mount 90 amp Denso alternator kit that I'm going to sell for EFI engines. I like the low mount design since it frees up some space at the top of the engine.

Working on mounting the front spoiler. I have it as high as it will go but I can move it in another 1/2 inch or so. I think that is where I'll mount it. As high and as far in as possible. Seems the safest place for it.

Sold the 345/55-15 drag radials since they were a little too big for this car and swapped on a set of 315/60-15 MT drag radials. These MT tires fit the car better. Should look mean once I get it back on the ground.

I love how the shop in which you are working on the Duster is nice and clean. It reflects in your work and we can all see that.
And your pics; how many mega-pixels are they? They are so vivid and clear.

Onig

I'm curious Andy because I ran into some alternator trouble about a year ago. 90 amps seems a bit low for all the electronic stuff you are running. IIRC this will have full lighting, heater, wipers plus all the computer stuff and the injectors.

Evidently you think 90 amps will be enough. Did you calculate all the values up? I know I had weird things happen when the system didn't have enough power. Like timing changes, fuel pump slowing down and the big one...the defroster would just start slowing down as the system ran out of power.

Maybe I had other issues.

Thanks. I try to keep the shop clean but I'm working on two cars at the same time so stuff tends to spread out on the floor and I have to keep after it. My camera is very old. It shoots 2.75 meg files. I've had it for about 15 years so it is ancient in the digital world. A friend of mine who is a photographer showed me a few tricks years back. No big deal, stuff I could show someone in 5 minutes but those tricks make a huge difference in picture quality.

I'm basing the kit on a 90A alternator which is OE fitment for a Land Cruiser. The Land Cruiser is loaded with electrical stuff such as seat heaters, mirror defrosters and stuff that muscle car guys will never have. So a 90A alternator should work for almost any muscle car.

You ever compare height between an M1 with carb to the
TF with air only throttlebody? Tb are a bit shorter right?

Thanks Andy. Just so I know...how much energy does the CNP/COP ignition use compared to the MSD 7? Is one better (use less power to get the same or more spark energy at the plug) than the other?

What I remember from all of my college classes on electricity and energy there are no free rides, in other words the more resistance to the spark plug the more current is needed in the transformer to make enough energy to force the spark across the air gap

My son's car has EFI, Coil near Plug ignition, two electric fans, two electric fuel pumps, phones, laptop, GPS and an iPad all charging.

This year on Drag Week, driving in the rain with windshield wipers and lights on, no problems with 60 amp alternator.

I would have to agree with Andy that 90 amps would be plenty for most cars. Your mileage may vary...

Correction Dad, it is a 100 amp GM unit. But it proves well capable of running all that stuff even with a 5" crank pulley and an 8 year old battery.

Oops... Thanks!

A Moparts member helped me out by locating a set of lower control arms that had the anti-sway bar tabs so I got those mocked up on the K frame. I've tried a couple different oil pans with limited success. I have another one on the way that should work.

Also finally got the Weld wheels for the front. I guess they had to build them since it took about 5 weeks. 17 x 6.5 with clearance for the Viper calipers and the correct backspacing.

What oil pans have you tried? the road race pan is cool but I think it's too wide for the Spool mount k frame. I like the hemi pan I just had to cut the lip off the k frame and weld it.

what brake set up did you use for the car?

Viper calipers mounted on 13 inch Baer rotors. I'm using FMJ knuckles.

That is a C body 187 pan in the picture. It could be made to work but I'd like a little more oil capacity. I tried a Hemi pan but the idler won't clear without making some major modifications. The Milodon road race pan won't fit the late model K frame without a lot of modification. I'm going to try the Mancini Hemi pan that has the 187 notch. That should be the perfect pan if it fits. It has the 6 qt capacity but it also has the 187 idler arm notch. So basically they took two good ideas and married them together. I haven't tried it yet so we'll see if it actually works like it is supposed to. If it doesn't work then I suppose it is time for something custom.

Yeah I have the c body pan on my duster I feel it doesn't hold enough. I wasn't able to find anyone that fit the hemi pan, I wanted to try it on the dart so I bought the cheap 440source pan. I think I just put a dent with a piece of round bar to clear the grease fitting, but I don't remember now.

Finally got around to building some permanent brackets for the front spoiler. This is a metal spoiler from Spoilers by Randy. It looks nice but the attaching hardware seemed like a joke so I tossed it all in the trash. If this car goes 125 mph at the track then there is going to be a fair amount of force pushing on the spoiler so I wanted something fairly beefy to hold it in place.

The factory tabs that Randy attaches to are just flat tabs with no support for the face of the spoiler. I got rid of those and bent up some tabs that extend out and support the top as well as the front of the spoiler. I welded my tabs to the frame but if I were to sell these as a kit I'd probably recommend people bolt them to the lower core support.

Time to fab up some lightweight bumper brackets!

These are the brackets I have on my Duster. Got them a few years ago, they were made by a guy on here JBMopars. These shaved a bunch of weight but still hold the stock steel bumper up no problem.

Obviously no spoiler mount but you get the idea.

I've got the Milodon RR pan in my B engine A with the spool mounts. It's tight and I did some trimming on the lip when I welded it up. The K members aren't very consistent in the fine details, and I'm using the Schumaker conversion mounts so- YMMV.

I welded ends or caps onto the K frame. I haven't seen this done before but it seemed like an easy upgrade. The cap adds some strength and provides me with a place to attach a strap.

Here are the oil pans I tried. The black one is the one from Mancini. It seems to work the best. They call it a Hemi pan but I think a better description would be a deep 187 pan. It basically looks like the 187 pan but is just deeper. The orange pan is a factory 187, the green pan is another Hemi pan from Mancini and the gold pan is the Milodon road race.

Nice selection. Is the engine already chosen?

For some reason I didn’t think the notch was needed on the 73+ steering? You tried these pans with the engine and trans in place in the car?

Yep, I'm pulling the 512 out of my Coronet and putting it in the Duster. I'm building a 496 (426W with 4.25 stroke) for the Coronet.

It is required in my car. It doesn't need to be a big notch but there needs to be clearance for the idler or else the steering won't go full lock.

The 1966 to 1969 street hemi oil pans fit the early, 1962 to 1965, B Body very well, they are a lot deeper than the stock 4 quart 361 up to the street 426 oil pans also Hence the welded on wedges on the street hemi k members t help protect them
If you wanted to use a 1966 to 1971 b body wedge k member in your car the 1970/71 Hemi and 440 6 pack 6 quart oil pans fit really good and they are not hanging down like the street hemi pans do, that swap also moves the motor down and back around 1 inch moving the center of gravity back also

Duster Cab, Duster.....

Nice and concise images and explanations Andy.
Your environment makes anyone want to tool on their cars, even if you are doing it old school on a crawler.

If you slide the motor back about one inch to the rear in the duster the stock 1970/71 6 quart Street Hemi and 440 6 pack oil pan works very well

It looks like I can squeeze the big radiator out of a Cordoba into the space available. It is a tight fit between the frame rails but it clears. The Cordoba shroud also fits just fine and I think I can make the hoses work also. This is an old stock radiator but new ones are available from Rock Auto for $300 so I should be good to go. I'm going to take this radiator over to a shop in the morning and see what they say.

Curious Andy...

Why an OE radiator and not aluminum from one of the various suppliers?

It might just be the angle of the picture, but looks like it sticks up from the radiator support a fair amount. Does the hood close with it in place?

I like the OE look, especially for radiators and shrouds. Aftermarket radiators and shrouds tend to be ugly. Griffin does make some nice aluminum radiators that have an OE appearance but they are super expensive.

It does stick up a fair amount but the hood has some clearance in that area so it seems to close okay. I'll keep an eye on it as the build progresses.

The Cordoba radiator is a surprise, have to say it's cool to see something like that in the mix.

Check this out
http://www.speedcooling.com/26-Big-Block-Mopar-Radiator.html

Paint the tanks black

I was thinking that too. If anyone can make Córdoba parts popular, it's Andy.

Usually Racecar mean liteweight, just sayin

I bought an aluminum radiator from www.autocityclassic.com. The tanks look closer to stock, than any others I've seen. Fit was perfect, and a stock shroud will bolt up to it. The best part, is they are only around $200. I powder coated the tanks, and brackets, then spray painted the fins.

Andy I am pretty sure this is the pan I had on my 73 big block dart. It was a factory 318 car. I used the shumocker conversion spool mounts, tti headers and Indy EZ heads. The pan fit great and the draglink etc fit great. Didn’t have to dent the pan or anything. I bought the 440 short block from a member on here that had it in his 66 Plymouth B body.

https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/50274/10...awaAgGOEALw_wcB

That autocity rad is pretty nice looking, what size tubes does it have? I don’t see mopar stuff on the site.

It has 1" tubes. The site hasn't been updated in a while, but they do have Mopar radiators listed through their eBay store.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-1972-MOPAR...497.m4902.l9144

Nice work, Andy.


Tim

Thanks for that! Saved seller

Been working on mocking up the EFI engine with a mechanical water pump. I think I have it all sorted out now but it did require some invention.

Trick number one is that I'm using one of my new small diameter 36-1 trigger wheels that is bolted to the back side of a Doty pulley. That leaves the pulley in the stock location and the smaller trigger wheel fits under the factory water pump housing.

Trick number two is a low mount 60 amp Denso alternator. I can go with a low mount since it is EFI so there isn't a mechanical fuel pump. With the fuel pump gone I was able to move the alternator down and in so it fits nice and tight. That makes a nice package in a big block A body car.

Moving the alternator down also opens up a nice window to see the timing mark on the damper. I also developed a bracket for the Holley crank trigger sensor and mounted it on the billet timing cover.

Looks nice as usual. The Doty pulley with your billet 36-1 wheel is one of the fanciest looking things on my engine, makes me wish it was easier seen.

Is the low mount alt brackets something you may end up making and selling in the future?

Yes. I have the 90 amp low mount kit in stock now but I'm still working on the 60 amp version. I haven't added them to my website yet. Might be a little bit of time before I get pictures taken and get the website updated. If you want a 90 amp low mount bracket kit you can shoot me a PM. BB only and it is a different part number between RB and B. The 90 amp uses a Toyota alternator with a V groove pulley. It is a bigger and heavier alternator than the 60 amp Denso unit but has the same plug on the back.

The radiator is back from the radiator shop and is ready to go. I have it mocked up now with a factory 20 inch fan and fan clutch. I have about an inch of clearance between the front of clutch and the radiator core so I'll probably order a shorter clutch from Hayden. I might also drop down to a 19 inch fan just for some extra clearance around the shroud. Other than that I think it is a go.

Here is a shot of the new roll bar and tin work. Shifter is also mounted in the car in this picture. Interior is getting closer to being finished. Rear of the car is basically finished. Still need to finish up the engine bay.

The 512 inch low deck engine is just about ready to go to the dyno. Need to screw on the correct oil pan and finish up a couple of details. This is a pump gas, hyd cam engine with old Mopar aluminum heads. The heads were ported by Modern about 15 years ago. I don't remember the compression ratio on this engine, maybe around 10:1? I'll have to look it up. It should make around 575 hp on the dyno. It made 485 rwhp on the chassis dyno earlier this year in my Coronet but that was with cast iron manifolds.

Car Craft article: https://www.hotrod.com/articles/dustbin-duster-mopar-project-car-update/

Hello Andy

-When will you start to sell the 90Amp low mount kits? Looked at your web page but could not find them.

Also -Any idea if this kit would work with a CVR electric water pump with out the belt interfering with the pump casing?

Thank you!

/Tom

I have the kits in stock but I haven't printed out instructions yet or updated the website. Never used a CVR electric water pump but it should fit if the electric motor isn't too big.

Where did you locate the fan shroud?

That is a factory Cordoba fan shroud mounted on a Cordoba radiator. All stock stuff.

Thanks Andy for your reply! I will be checking out your web page when you start selling these.. or will you sell them through Mancini and/or Hughes?

Thanks again!
/Tom

I had some parts that were still a bit gunky/rusty so I loaded them up and took them over to a local guy who does soda blasting. The bumper brackets came back looking like brand new. I was going to get this stuff powder coated black but now I'm considering just shooting these brackets with clear since they look so good.

I built an aluminum panel for the Pro Dash. I'll get this mounted up in the car and see how it looks.

Good stuff, keep the content rolling...

I like the effect on the background, and am starting to see what you were talking about re: the F settings on the other thread.

FYI that effect is referred to as Bokeh.

Can you start the coffee pot with that thing? Does it get Gmail?

Thank you. Good reading.

I should probably take a class or something but sometimes it's more fun to pick things up here and there.

where did you purchase the chin spoiler from ?

Spoilers by Randy

https://www.spoilersbyrandy.com/70-73-duster

I think I could maybe make that fit under my car , with some work

They make one for a Road Runner, that might work better.

negative

Why? Should be the same width.

shaped like a RR bumper --not straight

Look at the recent pic of my car in the random mopar race car thread. Page 25 , It's got a 79 Malibu chin spoiler. I did some fab work, but it fits and looks nice

Got the Weld S71 wheels mounted up front. I think they look pretty good and they clear the Viper calipers just fine. The nose will come down a bit more once the engine is back in place.

Really like this project! nice work!

Ran the engine on the dyno today. This is a 512 inch low deck with MCH ported Mopar heads and a Holley EFI setup. It is a 10:1 pump gas engine with a hyd roller cam. The engine made 600 hp at 5900 rpm and 580 torque at 5800 rpm. The torque curve has a bit of dip in it since the torque at 3200 rpm is 571. So saying the torque peak is at 5800 is true, but a little misleading. Not sure why there is a dip in the torque curve, something isn't happy between the cam, intake and exhaust system I suppose. But 600 hp should be enough to put the car in the low 10's if it hooks up so that is fine with me. I didn't prepare the car to run faster than that anyway.

Awesome engine, very nice build!
Though... there must be a typo hidden somewhere, since 580 torque @5800 equals 640 of them good oregonian horses.
580torque@4800 does make more sense to me.

You are correct, I was trying to do too many things at the same time. Peak torque was 580 @ 5200 rpm but it also had 570 @ 3000 rpm and 500 @ 6200 rpm so it was really a big flat torque curve. Not perfectly flat, kind of a rolling hill type of torque curve for some reason. Should run fine in the car though.

I am sure it will!

I wanted to dimple the 3 inch holes in the cowl support but the 3 inch dimple die isn't available in a bolt together, only in a press style. So I bought the press type dimple die and had a machine shop modify it and then make me a big press bolt. Worked like a charm. Just took a few twists of the wrench to dimple those holes. They look a lot better after they are formed.

Looking good!! Birdtracker

A buddy helped me with some minor body work on the front clip. Just some sanding and seam sealing. Basic prep work and then we rolled it into the booth for some color.

Really nice, can't wait to see it done.

The time and effort into this build is super. This will be one nice ride when it is complete.

I let the paint dry in the sun for a few days and then started hanging parts back on it. It is a lot nicer working on a clean shiny car than how it was before.

looks really nice!

I like the "Spinaker White". It looks great! Provides a nice contrast for any factory stripes.

Looks great, Andy! Now that all the hard stuff is done, it should be fun to put it all back together knowing that everything bolts right in.

Working on the Viper brake install today. It is nice when everything is clean. Sure beats laying on my back having dirt and gunk drop in my eyes every time I turn the wrench!

Man that looks great! I cant wait to get to that point on my demon build

Looks like on a factory assembly line back in the day... only they didn't have Viper brakes back then.

Be prepared for nhra techs to occasionally beach about the brake line across the firewall.

Looks great Andy; I really love white A bodies

Getting ready to lift the engine and transmission into place. I decided the starter was a little close to the headers so I gave the starter the gold foil treatment. Hopefully this helps keep the heat down.

I decided to switch to a set of Firm Feel upper control arms so I had to grind a little bit of clearance. Once a small piece of sheet metal was ground off the arms fit just fine. The FFI upper arms will give me a little more caster plus they look nicer than my old original ones.

Thank you - much easier on the eyes with those tubular UCAs. One step closer to losing the torsion bars too.

Article on the Hot Rod website: https://www.hotrod.com/articles/dustbin-duster-love-big-brakes-cannot-lie/

Coming along nicely Andy.

andy does some fine articles i really enjoy reading ! keep up the good work andy !

I'm starting to put the car back together now. Decided to put the engine in from below since I had the car all apart anyway. The engine goes in fairly complete this way with water pump, fan, alternator, headers, starter, etc. all installed. Just lift the front of the car up in the air with my overhead crane and roll the engine/transmission assembly under the car.

Once the engine is hoisted into place the suspension assembly (K frame, lower control arms, steering box, steering linkage, knuckles, hubs, caliper brackets, anti-sway bar, etc.) is lifted into place using a fixture on my transmission jack. Screw home the four big bolts and then start attaching stuff.

The install isn't finished but I'm making progress. I think the Cordoba radiator and shroud look good in there. It was a tight fit but it looks OEM.

Looks great Andy, can't wait to see it out.

Looks amazing Andy!
I see you installed a distribution block with the 4 wheel disc brakes. My 4 wheel Wilwoods kinda suck, the front brakes are too small, and I think I need the smaller bore master cylinder but I've also had people tell me the distribution block can be removed with 4 wheel disc. I hate to remove it though because all the lines are nicely bent to it.

Whoever told you that probably didn't know the difference between a distribution block and a proportioning valve. A distribution block is just a block of brass with holes drilled in it. It doesn't do anything to brake pressure. It is just a couple of T fittings that are joined together so there is no reason to remove it or not use it. The question about using a prop valve with 4 wheel disc brakes is more complicated. In theory you don't need one but for home built brake systems it is probably a good idea to install one. Most people don't know how to design a brake system so having some adjustment built in is probably a good idea.

Made a little more progress today.

Ok thanks Andy. I really like your Baer master Cylinder setup.

I picked up a stash of parts this weekend from a guy who was under orders to clean out the garage. One thing that was included was this air grabber type air cleaner. I don't know if it is an original or a reproduction. I think it might be an original since they guy had it sitting in his garage for a long time. It is beat up pretty bad but I think I might be able make it work. I hadn't even considered using one of these on the Duster but it looks like it will fit and work so I might just try it. Just depends on if I can get it hammered back into shape or not.

I like it! Ran one on my roadrunner with a K&N element for few seasons before switching to dominator carb.

That's coming along amazingly well. The paint job makes it hard to recognize as the same car.

It seems to have a good blend of Vintage Mopar content with updates/electronica to appeal to a wide audience.

Yeah getting the front clip painted really changed the project. It is a lot more fun working on it now that it is clean and shiny. This is the first project car that I've worked on that had new paint. I've been working on cars for 40 years and this is the first. All my projects in the past have been used cars with layers of crud. My Coronet is fairly clean by now since I've washed it and wiped it down a ton of times over the years but it still has factory paint on it which is all chipped up and scratched and beat to heck.

Wow ! Very Nice !

Making some progress when time permits. I finally found a coolant recovery bottle that fit in the space the way I wanted it. Not sure what it came off of, I just bought a few of these from Amazon and this one fit the best.

My custom battery box came back from powder coating so I got it mounted up.

Got the battery installed with the strap and the starter solenoid. Now I need to hook up all the wires so something happens when I turn the key.

Very, very nice chrastmanship as usual!! I know that those Braille batteries are very good, but do they hold a charge for cars that sit for a couple of weeks at a time with no maintainance charge hooked up?

They should be able to sit for months at a time as long as they are put away fully charged. Lots of those small batteries are just motorcycle batteries with a fancy label and price tag.

saying those are motorcycle batteries, they probably wouldn't last long if the engine were hard starting ?
EFI would go a long way on that type battery's life, no ?

Looks like it'll be done just in time for SEMA 😆

Finally got the rod shifter installed and working. I designed this last year but couldn't get it built quite right so I asked for some help from a local fab guy. He made a few tweaks to my design and now it works. I think it looks cool. Might not be cool enough for SEMA but it is cool enough for me.

The same guy helped me with the exhaust. It built from a box of 3" mandrel bends. You can't see much of it since it tucks up under the car. The TTI headers hang down a bit so the exhaust has to come down to meet them.

Starting in on the wiring. I'll be able to start the car once I hook up the ignition.

I took some time off over the summer but now I'm starting to get back on the Duster. I have the Pro Dash wired up and it is live. I have it sitting on the cowl for now as I double check things. I haven't seen any cars with a Pro Dash installed yet so it might get some attention around here when I take the car to the local Cars & Coffee.

Love the mix of new and old on this build!

Yeah as it is coming together I'm starting to get some really positive reactions. I had a couple of Mopar guys stop by the other day to buy some parts from me. They just stood and stared at the Duster for a while and tried to wrap their heads around it. They hadn't seen coil packs and MPFI and a digital screen married up with a Direct Connection K frame and a Cordoba radiator and Viper brakes. I'll need to get the car out to some local Mopar shows next year to see what people think.

The coil on plug really throws them for a loop. People immediately assume LS swap, partially because I use LS coils but most just don't expect coil near plug on an old car. I had a gentleman pull me aside at Cordova on drag week 2015 and tell me he really liked my car even though I had put a chevy motor in it haha. I hadn't finished my EFI at that point so it was coil on plug with a carb so it really looked wacky.

The duster is looking great Andy, and that pro dash looks awesome.

Pretty nice job Andy

looking good. how big is that Holley dash ? can't wait to see it in the dash!

The Pro Dash is listed as 12.3 inches but that is diagonal. Here is some info on it: https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/gauges_and_displays/parts/553-111

Yeah I expect to have some people ask me if it is an LS engine even though the heads say Mopar right on them and it has a stock water pump. But people who only have a general knowledge of cars will probably assume it is a LS engine.

Latest article in Car Craft: https://www.hotrod.com/articles/dustbin-duster-tackle-big-block-body-swap/

I enjoyed the article Andy. Can we get a little more information on the battery you are using and also your shifter rod setup? Thank you.

The battery is just an off the shelf B2618 from Braille. I think I bought it from Summit Racing. The rod shifter is fairly simple. Just a piece of tubing with rod ends on it that was bent into a S shape. It connects the shifter to the linkage on the transmission. The rod takes up a lot less space than a cable but it has to be bent correctly and cut to the correct length. Shouldn't be too difficult for the average chassis guy to make.

Thanks, I think that is a great idea. I will have to research Braille batteries.

Andy, that article says you are running the Mopar version Edelbrock heads but CNC ported. Do they flow as well as the PP240 heads? do you know the port volume?

Thanks!!

I have old Mopar 452 heads on the Duster engine. They were ported by Modern about 15 years ago. I don't think they work as good as out of the box Trick Flow heads and they cost about 3x what TF heads cost.

I mocked up the new electrical system for the Duster using some relays and I wasn't super happy with how complicated things got. Then I came across this solid state relay from MSD that appears to solve those problems. I haven't seen anyone post about this MSD solid state relay bank so I figured I'd at least show a picture of it. I'll start running the wires once I transfer the dimensions over to piece of sheet metal.

I kicked everything MSD other than my crank sensor bracket off of my car when I went EFI because I had experienced reliability problems. That being said I like the clean and simple setup those relay setups offer, and they are solid state on top of that.

that looks like a very clean setup andy.
and , being lazy as always, is it possible you may have a link to that ?
TIA !

A buddy loaned me his Longacre alignment tool. I've never used one of these before but the process was actually pretty quick. I dialed in 1/2 camber and got about 3.5 caster and aimed for 1/8th toe. I figure that should work well enough for some shake down driving around town then I'll take it in to the local alignment shop and let the pro lock it down.

andy, those longacre tools are pretty accurate. i have a similar tool [i can't remember the name, but it was one of the first ones of that design put out], and have used it a lot.
i bought that, plus a couple of others, and i have had great luck aligning my stuff, and no goofy tire wear.
there are no good places around here to get an alignment, thus my delve into these tools.

My dad (who was very cheap) used to say, "One plumb bob, two strips of angle iron, 4 C-clamps and a tape measure." Well it worked on his 46 Plymouth. LOL.

Toe is easy to do with a tape measure and camber can be guessed at pretty well with a straight edge and bubble level but caster is the tough one. At least on a IFS. Caster wouldn't be too hard with a straight axle I suppose.

I think a person could design a fixture that measured caster directly off the knuckle but it would take some clever thinking.

With a spool the car is already hard to turn, so dialing in as much caster as you can just makes it ride better down the track.

I finally got most of the wiring hooked up and working. Still have a few things to button up but it is getting closer.

I ended up buying a repo air grabber setup for the car. I decided I liked the way it looked so I plunked down the money.

Car is looking good Andy.

Funny about the air cleaner, I bought one too for my car as well some time back. I love the look of those. Heck even bought one for my 74 440 Trailduster.

I love the digital dash... is that the permanent location or are you looking to retrofit on the factory dash frame?

I'll put the top part of the original dash frame back in place since that part has the VIN tag and it supports the windshield gasket. The bottom of the frame has been cut away.

You ought to talk with Hemi denny about some of his LCAs. A lot lighter.

Here is how the actual sub panel ended up. I think the MSD solid state relay module is a cool idea. I'll probably put one in my Coronet to clean up some of the messy wiring.

That air cleaner top would look great painted to match the valve covers. Just would have to get a filter with a black seal.

very NICE sub panel andy.

If I change the color on the air cleaner I'll probably go black, Maybe make the valve covers black too. I'm going to leave it orange for now since people expect an Air Grabber top to be orange but if I get tired of orange I'll probably powder coat it black. I don't think I'd go with the turquoise color.

If you do any road driving a 60/40 shock on the front is way more manageable. Nice car.

Very nice work! attention to detail is off the charts!!

Andy
My bass boat has the identical relay wired inti the trolling motor battery lines
Not sure who makes it, but not MSD on it
They should be available if you want to start making those plates.

I hadn't thought of making the sub panel as a product but I probably could. I have the equipment to press the nuts and standoffs into the plate so it is simple for a guy to just buy the other parts and assemble it. I think a panel like this would work for most race cars. The fuse module has 12 circuits and the relay bank has 4 relays in it so a person can run fans, fuel pump, electric pump, etc. I'll think about it.

These solid state relays are used extensively in modern cars and failure is common , the entire unit or fuse center has to be replaced if one relay circuit goes down. A relay over lay is possible in some instances however.

Hey Andy,

Since you're pondering a product, a scaled back panel for assisting with FI conversions would be most welcome I'm sure (and probably at a higher margin). Powering a panel properly and running the circuits from there would be a good bit simpler and cleaner than working with the car's electrical system.

About the only clever thing I know to use for Mopar EFI conversions is a time delayed relay that allows the IGN1 and IGN2 circuits to be tied together to provide 12 volts when cranking and running. I've seen it done before but I haven't done it myself. Otherwise the EFI systems that I've seen installed just need power and ground and some sensors hooked up.

Ahhh, gotcha. I was thinking along the lines of having the fuel pump circuit on there, nab power for the FI unit there too and maybe some extra taps for nitrous, stereo, whatever. Strictly speaking, more of an elaborate bus than a sub-panel I guess.

I've done the electrical hookup work on a couple of Fi-Tech/in tank pump conversions and I pondered such a thing. Get an adequate power wire to it and a good ground, and you have a nice tidy power center in the back of the car and isolated from the factory electrical system. You'd have to go back to the front with power for the FI unit, and maybe run switched power signal back there as well. I'd love to have a convenient bus in the trunk.

Latest article in Car Craft: https://www.hotrod.com/articles/high-tech-mopar-setting-up-holleys-pro-dash/

The Duster is running and driving now but not quite complete. I'm waiting for the dash to come back from the paint shop and then the windshield and trim have to go back in. I also need to do some fab work on some front sheet metal parts to get things to fit the way I want. Otherwise she is finished up.

I have a black steering wheel for that thing that I can drop off next time I'm over. I have the black column as well but it's got a shifter sticking out of it.

A black steering wheel would be cool. My interior is a mixture of blue and black right now. The car originally had a blue interior but some reproduction stuff is only available in black so I ended up with a jumble of colors. Let me know on the wheel.

Love the way this car is coming along. Cant wait to see how finished dash comes out.

The dash is at the body shop getting a coat of B5 texture paint. Once I get that installed then the windshield can go back in and the car will be ready to go.

Right now I'm spending my time trying to get the front sheet metal hung correctly. It takes time to get everything lined up nice and square.

That ;looks good just like it sits
Are you going to paint the entire car B5 blue also?

No, I'm going to leave the car in primer for now. I might paint it down the road or I might let the next guy paint it. The front clip was painted Spinnaker White.

Okay, now she is ready to fire up and pull out of the shop for the first time in 10+ years.

Cool. Looks real nice Andy.

Cool, good luck! Can´t wait for timeslips

Michael

Looking real good Andy .
I really like the turntables in that alignment picture Great idea.

Gus

Very very nice!

Thanks. I put the finishing touches on the front sheet metal and I was able to finally figure out the exhaust tips. Everything takes so long to do on these projects it is hard to stay motivated. The exhaust tip install took several weeks by itself. I tried a few different tips then once I selected these I had to cut away the existing brackets and fabricate new ones. Seems like it would be a 30 minute job to install exhaust tips but not when everything is custom. Same with the front spoiler and the grill support. Lots of fab work required since the core support was modified and relocated. Everything else got shoved around by custom core support.

Those tips look a lot like the ones I used on my 1966 Coronet

Your gonna like those rear tires. They hook real nice and last a long time. What mufflers did you go with Andy?

Could be. They are a B body type tip made for a 3 inch exhaust system.

We used the muffler that fit. There isn't a lot of room for a full 3 inch exhaust under an A body car so there were not many choices. In fact, I think once we laid the whole system out there was only one muffler available that actually fit in the space. I considered cutting the floor to provide more space but the fabricator I was working with said he could make it work. The exhaust system did end up costing a pile of money since it took the fab guy two days and a big box of mandrel bends. But it fits and works and is tucked up out of the way which is what I wanted. I'm not a fan of exhaust systems that hang down below the car.

Picked up some nice floor mats with matching B5 script. I haven't decided on carpet yet but I'm sure I'll end up putting carpet in the car if I drive it much. I bet it is going to sound like a thunderstorm on a tin roof every time I drive it.

TTI makes a turnkey full 3 inch exhaust

Yeah, I used a TTI turnkey exhaust kit before. Nothing turnkey about it! I knew better this time. It is easier to buy a box of mandrel bends and hire a skilled guy to knock it out than to start off with stuff that doesn't fit but is already welded and coated and has all the brackets in the wrong place.

Wow. Read the enitre thread. Nice work, Andy! Very cool and innovative. Damn nice build!

Wes

Thanks. Here is a start up video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2r4PVJXnSk&feature=youtu.be

The engine is running and I've done most of the tuning. Just need to get it road worthy so I can finish up the EFI tuning.

Wow! Sounds real clean and healthy! Installing the full exhaust system is a nice touch and stealthy. Wheel dyno tuning coming up?

Yeah I wanted the exhaust tips coming out the back. It took some work to put a full 3 inch exhaust in there with the narrowed rear end but it all cleared. The key was the fuel cell in the trunk rather than a gas tank hanging down under the floor.

I'm not sure about running it on a chassis dyno. I've never had any luck running automatics on a chassis dyno. The numbers come out weird and it causes confusion. I think I'll just drive it on the street for a while to get comfortable with it and then take it to the track next summer for a few passes.

I agree Andy. Just drive it and have some fun with it. When you think you have a good tune on it, then take it to the track and get a time on it.

Totally understand, been there done that also. Takes time and patience, and then you can still be chasing your tail. Good luck with it. That is definitely a cool project and once sorted out it’s going to be a BEAST and very dependable street car! Best of luck with it.

Got the dash back from a local body shop. Guy I know there did a little research and came up with a formula for the suede finish on the dash paint. I'd called around a few places and everybody told me that the suede paint wasn't available but he figured it out. Might not be 100% correct but it looks good to me.

Did you make or buy those defrost vent block offs ?

Every detail on the car is sooo beautifully executed.

Those do look nice!

Wow, that's actually pretty cool. Details like that can tend to get lost on race cars. Last summer I was at an auto body supply store for what seemed like hours trying to match the original Duracryl lacquer paint on my steering column and what we ultimately came up with wasn't even close. Do you know how they came up with the texture?

I made them. They are laser cut aluminum with pressed in studs with flush heads. Then the nuts attach from below.

Here is the paint card. The DX 1999 is a texture additive. I'm not a paint guy so that is the limit of my knowledge.

Thanks for posting that dash paint info! I saved that as I will need same on mine.

X2, thank you Andy.

DONT COME HERE LOOKING FOR IT....I ALREADY LOOKED IT UP AND ITS DISCONTINUED

WELL THERE IS A NEWM PN …...DITSL1999 LOL

BUT I WOULD HAVE TO GET IT IN, SO CALL AHEAD IF YOU WANT SOME

IT SAYS 3G OF THE ADDITIVE, BUT IN HOW MUCH OF THE CLEAR???

Tony, I did appreciate you guys trying to help that day. I know it was really difficult to match the sample I brought which was not flat and kind of faded...

There's just no substitute for the original Duracryl suede lacquer, nothing else looks like it or gets the texture right.

THE CAPS ARE NOT YELLING LOL

JUST TYPE HERE TO INVOICE IN CAPS....LOL

WHEN YOU WANT IT, WE CAN GET IT

Cool, thanks!

Andy, I'm sure you are aware of these but for anyone else that might be interested, Holley makes "can-bus" style stepper motor gauges that look like traditional after market gauges but work with the Holley ECU. The gauge housings are slim depth so they don't take up a lot of real estate behind whatever panel you would use to mount them. You have to get a gauge module to drive them but the individual gauge wiring is really simple since they use audio jacks to daisy chain them together.

I have a set on order for my in-process Sniper EFI '68 Coronet to replace the factory gauges. The auxiliary gauges (2.062" water temp., oil press., fuel level and voltmeter) are $125 each though the electronic/GPS speedos and tachs are more. I generally prefer a more traditional looking gauge but these are OK. They have replacement bezels if you want to change it up.

Holley EFI water temp gauge

Yes I know about the Holley EFI gauges. I have some of them on hand but I haven't used them yet. I might build myself a small gauge panel just for fun and hook them up even though I don't need them in this car. They are cool since they daisy chain together. It only takes one wire from the ECU to run all of the gauges.
https://www.holley.com/products/fue...es_and_displays/analog_style_efi_gauges/

I found a super nice dash pad in the local craigslist. A guy was selling off some Duster parts that his dad had collected over the years. He said his dad had this dash pad sitting on the shelf for a future project. It appeared to be NOS. Had a part number stamped on the back side and didn't appear to have ever been installed on anything. This isn't a resto type car but I needed a dashpad and this one was perfect so I bought it.

The car is almost finished. Just need to install the windshield and tidy up a few things. Not sure what I'll do with the car now that Car Craft has bitten the dust. I was writing articles on the build but that gig is over. Guess I'll hit the streets with the car next year and then figure it out later.

Here is a shot of the engine from the passenger side. The low mount alternator setup is working out really nice. I'm not so happy about where I put the dipstick but it will take a bunch of work to change it so I'll leave it for now. Spark plugs have all been easy to get to except for #4. The dipstick makes it tough to get a wrench on the plug so that was my mistake. The coolant recovery setup seems to be working fine and the car runs cool with the big Cordoba radiator. Haven't driven in the heat yet so I'll keep my fingers crossed on that.

Amazing progress as usual.

Whats going on with car craft?

Andy, how do you like that little battery your using? Does it have much reserve power? Project looks real nice.

andy, what is the last issue of car craft to be published ?
i have always liked your articles !

I heard about Car Craft today and this project was the first thing that came to mind.

Yeah it isn't just Car Craft though, it appears that all of the Motor Trend magazines have either been down sized or eliminated. I checked in with the editors at other magazines to see if they wanted any articles for 2020 and none of them have any budget. So it appears the faucet has been turned off. If it stays turned off that will ripple thru the entire aftermarket sector since there was a lot of cash that flowed out from the magazines to various shops and installers who then used aftermarket parts who then got free advertising who then turned around and paid for advertising. So it was an entire ecosystem where the magazine took in advertising dollars and then sent those dollars out to shops and installers and freelancers. Without magazine funding the whole system will break down. Not sure what will replace it.

That battery works just fine. I think it has 1100 CCA so roughly the same as any normal size lead type battery. Smaller size, same CCA, less weight, more cost.

Wow. 1100cca is a ton.

https://braillebattery.com/collections/lightweight-agm/products/b2618

They use "Pulse Cranking Amps" which is a much shorter test than regular CCA but it is still a sufficient battery to start a healthy motor. To convert a regular battery CCA over to "pulse CCA" you add about 40% last I checked.

I just bought a new battery last summer, a blue top optima, so wont need a battery for awhile, but I will check that battery out. Andy, yur Duster gonna be a street romper only or do you have any plans for some track time?

I saw and posted the whole list on another site that I use way more than this one, and yep it is indeed brutal.

Guess I am one of those folks who are partially to blame, as I haven't purchased one in many years for a variety of reasons.

You and I both. I can’t remember the last time I subscribed to the ragazines of today. I guess it all stated fir me when the the my dyno engines can beat your dyno engine. Lol. I guess people doing the testing are going to have to start paying the same prices for parts as the rest of us now.

Just curious, Where did you post this?

X2 Same here.

Andy: It seems everything is being replaced with video content on the Motor Trend Channel.
Perhaps you could talk to them and, with their help, create your own channel inside their network, im sure it would be a hit as you actually build things we can learn from, duplicate etc.

Just my thoughts.

Just curious, Where did you post this?
--------------

Nowhere important, just on my personal Fakebook... not an enthusiast site or anywhere like that.

I went and grabbed it, here it is:

4-Wheel & Off-Road
Automobile
Car Craft
Chevy High Performance
Classic Trucks
Diesel Power
Hot Rod Deluxe
Jp
Lowrider
Mopar Muscle
Muscle Car Review
Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords
Mustang Monthly
Street Rodder
Super Chevy
Super Street
Truck Trend
Truckin’
Vette

All gone now.

Link:
https://www.foliomag.com/ten-publis...Mjlqxn7kW1cvGTgjvb0YUwlw2QhjqZn3VpU9ha4I

Not my cup of tea. I just do this stuff for fun and I don't consider shooting video to be fun so I'll let someone else take over.

i for one will miss your articles.

Really sorry Andy: I , for one, really benefit from your work/writings.
I know that sounds selfish nd it probably is, but, don't know how to better say I have really appreciated your work.

Blessings

Mopar Action contact Cliff Gromer

Sure seems like Richard E. has had that whole deal sewn up for the past few decades.

sure, but Andy can still contribute a few articles here and there
Also he should look at RPM magazine. They also accept contributions for articles

Sorry to here another mag going away. I like the EngineMasters mag, but can't find it anymore. Would rather read about engine tech.

Engine Masters magazine went away years ago.

I didn't know that. I have been looking for that mag for the last 9 months. Well that sucks, I really liked reading that mag. Thanks

Wiring is finished and the windshield is back in. Basically ready to hit the road now.

I’m betting right now a lot of guys wish they would have bought this car when you had it for sale. Beautiful job.

Sweet!!!

Looking forward to the driving impressions report!!

And when the weather breaks...... some track reports.

I don’t know if it’s been covered already...... but, what’s the hood situation?

Don't hold your breath. The weather is about to break---in a BAD way. Tracks around here try to open in March but usually are delayed, sometimes by quite a bit.

The car came with this super stock style lift off hood. I'm not a big fan of the way the hood looks but I'll run it for now. Might get it painted satin black or something, haven't put much thought into it. I'm planning to drive the car without the hood when I'm just putting around town.

Not a lot of weather breaks this time of year but sometimes we'll get a dry day. I've had the car out of the shop a few times so far and it seems to run fine but I haven't jumped on it yet. I'm sure I'll have some more EFI tuning to do but it should go fairly quickly at this point.

Yeah I was a little surprised that it didn't sell. I was asking less than $5000 for the car and it included a brand new Strange 60 that cost $3000, a new Calvert split mono-leaf suspension and new Centerline wheels. So I had $5000 worth of new parts plus a straight body with a clean title for sale for $5000. But nobody wanted it so I put it together myself.

Great job on the car Andy, I like it A LOT

Car looks great Andy! Love the simplistic/clean looks of it as well as the stance

Been watching this for the last couple years and I have to say this easily in my top 3 favorite builds on this site. The blend of old and new school is just awesome.

I had a set of original Duster bucket seats that I'd found on Craigslist. Finally got them recovered and now the passenger seat will go in the car. Kind of funny how much money this cost me. The seats were expensive on CL, the new foam and covers were expensive and then the labor for installing the covers was expensive. Amazing how much it all added up to.

Hard to find anything that is not expensive for cool cars these days.

I bought a crusty 2 door bench seat for a core, then the seat cover from Legendary, and had the local upholsterer redo the whole thing.

I have about $1000 into a bench seat

I hot rodded the adjuster. The original wire one was busted so I just built one from some hex stock and a couple of heim ends. Seems to work great.

Got a part number for that?

That's pretty cool on the adjuster, probably works great. The OE wire/turnbuckle/spring things are cheesy.

Just throwing this out there for comparison. I used a set of '80s Jeep Scrambler seats in my Duster mounted on '68 S/S style brackets. 22lbs each!

Got the seats for free, the covers were around $150 off Ebay IIRC. If you squint they almost look like they belong in there.

I bought a new SCAT ProCar seat for the passenger side but the SCAT brackets didn't really fit very well so I got frustrated with that install. Then a pair of original seats showed up on CL so I decided to buy them. The SCAT seat will go to the swap meet or get put on CL. Had the engineer at SCAT done his job right I would have the ProCar seat in the car right now but he didn't so their seat isn't in the car.

Weather was dry today so I took it for a short ride around the block. Seems to run just fine. I'll gradually venture out further with it as I get used to driving it. This was the first time I had ever driven the car so a lot of things feel new to me.

Wooohoooooo! Nice work Andy! Car looks super cool.

I agree,geat stance!

Looks great Andy.

Been following your progress. Turned out very nice Andy. Should be fun to drive.

Love it.

It is turning out great.

Thanks for keeping us in the loop on this project.

Bill

Looks great!!

However......I’m not a big fan of the no hood look........ but I’m also not in love with the hood you have for the car.

I know I’m going to get flamed big time for saying this...... but I actually think a hood with a smallish cowl scoop would look nice on it.

No Flaming from me Dwayne LOL, as always you are right, cowl hood is IT !!!

Also, I should add that it has been inspiring to see steady progress being made on a pretty big project....... from a definite “pile of parts” ...... to a running driving car....... with many changes and updates along the way.
It was nice to be a long for the ride.

Thanks, it has been a good project for me. I wasn't really interested in it at first and I got frustrated and quit a couple of times but with some help I was able to finish it off. These projects are hard to do and I have advantages that most people don't have. I have time, tools, space and resources and the projects are still tough to complete.

If I build a new hood it would most likely be a cowl scoop. I might do a TA type of hood but if I needed more space than a TA hood then I would go cowl. I'm not a fan of the SS Hemi scoop that the car came with. For now I'm going to run it around town with no hood. Eventually I'll decided which way to go. I also haven't decided on finishing the paint. I think I'm going to take it small chunks. I'm going to see if I can source a replacement deck lid and get it soda blasted and painted and then maybe attack the door jambs next.

Very nice Andy. You made a good point about the difficulties on finishing a project. My preference on a hood would be a flat one. Keep it simple and carry a big stick

Good luck finding a decklid in these parts
I vote for flat hood, I haven't seen any mods that don't make a car look any better. Sure, it might take some changes in the induction department but remember, a car is not a dynomometer, or is it the other way around?

Can almost hear it rumble...

Looks great, I think a cowl hood looks great on a duster.

It looks like a flat hood wouldn't have a chance of fitting, plus its nice to get as much cool air in as you can.

Heck! When was it for sale? Turnkey or roller? The car is BA!

Flat hood would be cool, but I’d like to see something like the hood on my HellCat Challenger. The center scoop and one heat vent duct on each side would be bitchin’. Would take some work, but would be cool and different.

Nice build, well thought out car.

If you go back to the start of the thread you'll see the pictures of the car when I had it for sale. I was asking $4900 as a roller with all of the parts in boxes. That was a good deal since all of the body work was done and it had a new S60 rearend as well as a new Caltrac mono leaf setup and new Centerline wheels with disc brakes all the way around. There was also a new alterK in the box as well as a bunch of other parts. Probably $15K worth of parts were included. But nobody even came to look at the car so I decided to put it together myself. Took me two years to do it. I figured I could put it together in just a few months but once I got into the project I found out that it wasn't so simple.

Maybe there's middle ground between flat and a cowl hood with a custom hood. This 70 RR hood looks good in body color and quite subdued

I like the way you think Wes! This car would look good in your garage.

Looks awesome

This Demon was just at a local show here in Wichita - gives you a sense of the Demon hood suggestion. Very custom.

DEMONIC

Lol! What’s up man!?! Been a long time!

Not much, getting old and tired lol. I've made 5 passes down a dragstrip in the last 8 years.
I sold my 10 sec Duster to build a streetable 9 sec car but I stumbled onto a pro touring Challenger project and snagged it.
Lots of fun but I miss racing. Wish I had the money for Andy's Duster right now!

That thing looks cool man!

I've been out driving the Duster the last few days. It seems to run really well, even took it out today on a parts run. Dropped off some packages at UPS and ran some other errands in it. I like how it drives around town. The converter has enough stall in it that the car doesn't creep at stop lights and it doesn't drag the idle down. The car stays nice and cool. So far it has never gotten over 165 degrees even when it just sits and idles. The weather isn't very hot at the moment, I think it hit 60 degrees today so not too much strain on the cooling system yet. The car is a little loud but I figured it would be. It also smells like I have an oil leak but I can't see it or find it. I just smell it. The Caltrac setup is noisy. It clanks on every bump and every shift. I might try some different adjustments to get rid of the clunk. I don't need it hitting hard on the street.

I keep mine 1/4 preload, nice & quite 9k street strip miles & all is good so far.

I'd love to hop in for a ride and roam the streets of Portland.
Been living there in the nineties... somewhere off NW23rd.
Many fond memories...

I had SS springs on my heap for about 20 years.
They were shot and needed replacing, so I went with the XHD springs and Cal-Tracs.
It totally fixed my inconsistent 60’ times, but I was pretty surprised at, A- how hard the ride was, and B- how much noise there was.

Glad to hear you’re out putting on some miles on it.

Andy, good to hear your out having some fun with your build. Try more preload on your cal tracs. I have 1/2 turn in mine, no noise.

I run a few flats of preload in mine and they do not make any noise. I always leave my shocks setup for the track so the front of my car rides like an old floaty lincoln and the back like a log wagon.

I put about 1/2 turn of preload in it and took it for a drive. It doesn't bang on the 1-2 shift but it bangs hard on the 2-3 shift. Not sure why that is. I did try a 2-3 shift while I was on the throttle and it didn't bang so perhaps it just depends on how the suspension is loaded. I'll call Calvert next week and chat with them to see what they say. The car seems to hook and go straight on the street although I haven't hit it with more than 1/2 throttle so far.

I did get the oil temp, trans temp, driveshaft speed and fuel gauge hooked up and working on the digital dash. I still need to program the dash with turn signal indicators and then I'll be pretty close to finished. I also added a second O2 sensor so now I have one in both head pipes.

I'm probably going to buy the Holley G force sensor and plug that into the computer. Then I can data log G forces.

I am also running left & right 02's Holley HP ecu, I have it so they both read on my Holley dash & they are both on the data log. the ecu tunes off the left bank & with data log I have tuned the right bank to match the left. working great so far, but DO NOT adjust the throttle shafts or I will lose the right bank tuning. the right bank is my LM gauge I was using when it was carbed. Hilborn set up

Some of that noise may be caused by the Detroit Locker.

Yeah I was wondering about that. I get a clunk out of the rearend when I shift into Reverse or Drive. Since the isn't moving I figure the clunk must be coming from some play in the driveline. Could be the Locker that clunks a little bit. The car doesn't have any carpet in it and the rear is all aluminum panels so a clunk in the rear end sounds pretty loud inside the car.

Detroit Lockers have a lot of internal lash. They function like a ratchet with 1/8" of slack between each click.

That could explain the clunking at low speeds, not sure if it is the clunk I hear during gear changes. When I put the car in reverse it clunks so I think that is the Locker since the car is barely moving. I don't think the Calvert setup would make any noise when the car is barely moving, especially in reverse. When driving at low speeds over rough pavement I hear a fair amount of clunking from the rear end and I'm guessing that noise is the Calvert load bar hitting the springs. From inside the car it all kind of sounds the same but I think the noises are caused by different things.

Hey Andy, are you running sliders or stock type rear spring shackles ?

I used to put a piece of heater hose on those load bars. Now I have a piece of 1/4" thick polyurethane glued to the top of the spring. The poly holds up better.

At part throttle the shift overlap between second and third will pull the load bar off of the spring and then slam it back down. Not nearly as noticable on a full throttle pass. That overlap is a balance of valve body, clutch pack springs, kd lever ratio, kd lever adjustment, kd spring. Careful here because if it doesn't have some overlap it will flare.

No over lap on the 2nd to 3rd gear shift is a good thing, especially at WOT
Quicker at the track also
When it starts to flare on the 2nd to 3rd gear change with a manual V.B.at part throttle or at WOT the front clutches need attention usually
Love the T/A reverse manual V.B. for that reason

I just added a Holley g-meter today. Pretty slick device that Holley sells. It plugs into the EFI system and allows the computer to data log acceleration in both X and Y direction. This car won't pull big g numbers going around corners but it might be interesting to see how hard it pulls at the track. I think it is cool that I can buy stuff like this and plug it into the EFI system and then see it on the dash and in the data logs. Plug and play.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/modules/parts/554-162

I have been wanting to add one as well. That isn't a bad price for a plug and play deal.

A guy I know from Drag week picked up some really good data with one that really helped his combo. He dropped a tenth or more by lowering his shift points from G-force data.

It's easy to get data hungry with an EFI system!

FWIW I have lateral and acceleration G's on the racepak, thay all have it. I have seen as much as 3.14 G's at the hit, but that aint how the car is fastest

I've put enough miles on the car now to figure out that the hard bang when shifting into third gear only happens when the transmission fluid is cold. After about 10 miles of driving the transmission temp is warm enough that the shift into 3rd isn't too bad. At anything over 10% throttle position the shift into 3rd feels just fine. When the trans is cold and with a closed throttle the shift into 3rd feel like car has been hit with a big hammer. Warm at closed throttle sounds bad but doesn't feel bad. Warm and part throttle the shift feels firm just like you expect from a shift kit.
I haven't tried any full throttle shifts yet. I opened it up to about half throttle the other day and the 2-3 shift felt exactly like you would want it. So I'm thinking it is just the case of a race valve body plus Caltracs plus Detroit Locker being a harsh combination when used as a daily driver.

It always seemed to me the 2-3 shift was harder/clunkier when you were barely on the throttle....... and the converter is “coupled”.
As soon as you give it a little gas to slip the converter a bit...... it smoothed right out.

The shift feel gets absorbed by the slipping converter.

I found it to be very predictable....... want a less harsh shift??? Just shift when your on the throttle a little.

Sounds like cold fluid. Higher viscosity when cold I would assume. Mine shifts harder with cold fluid too.

That works great in a heavy car but in a lighter car with a ton of torque a small amount of throttle opening means I'm on the move. Around town I'm leaving it in second a lot since the shift to 3rd is harsh and most speed limits are 35 to 40. 35 is okay in second gear but 40 is starting to buzz it a bit. 40 is fine in third if you're going to hold it for a bit. Full manual valve body means you're always working the shifter. It is an interesting driving experience. Different than what I'm used to.

For just about all the street duty my car saw...... it had 4.10’s and 27” tires, and cams that were pretty happy putting along at pretty low speeds, although I used to run plenty of stall for the size of the cam.

I’d drive around on just about every road or street in high gear.
I’d leave a stop light and it was one—two—three..... right into high......then leave it there til the next stop light.
It seemed like the converter would keep the motor at the same rpm in all gears when I was driving around town.
I was never cruising along at 30mph or so in 2nd with my combo....... I’d have shifted into 3rd.

The quickest the car was, while still seeing any kind of street duty was low to mid-11’s.
So, you have a different animal there.

The manual shift valve body I built for my street car uses the throttle pressure cable, easy driving no BANG shifts to the driveline, more throttle more pressure. but thats ok Andy , you never acknowledge anything I post on your threads. my car shifts very nice at low & part throttle.

One other thing I just remembered. When I had a cheetah valve body in my 727 it was a real issue until the fluid warmed up. My buddy who built the trans thought it had an overlap issue and the cold fluid compounded the hard shifting your describing.

I ran the TA RMVB as well.
I don’t recall the cold fluid shifting worse, but it very well could have.

But, for sure........ if you were at light throttle in 2nd, and let the vehicle speed stabilize for the engine rpm, and allow the converter to lock up....... the 2-3 shift would be pretty harsh and clunky.

Yes it could be more of a converter issue than anything. The converter I have is fairly tight and cold fluid might make it tighter. So at light throttle with cold fluid the converter is probably close to locked up. Once things warm up and if I'm in the throttle then the converter is slipping and the shift is much softer. I'll call TA one of these days and talk it over with him. I'm sure he'll be able to fill me in on the details. He will also probably tell me that I'm using the wrong valve body for my application which wouldn't surprise me. Part of the drill when you put a bunch of race car parts on the street.

On that style of VB, since the throttle pressure is fixed(and high), the shift itself is basically the same under most conditions.

The difference in the shift feel is that when the converter isn’t locked up, the clunky shift feel is just absorbed in the converter slip.

The tighter the converter is, the smaller the window is to find a sweet spot to get the shifts in before the converter starts to lock up.

"Positively not for street use" used to come stamped all over the box for the Cheetah RMVB lol. Mine clunks at light throttle slow speeds, but with a 4800 converter once your actually accelerating the tach doesn't even move on the shifts anymore.

Installing a spring on the accumulator piston might just fix it, depending of course on the valve body modifications.

We use the "Positively not for street use" manual valve body in our 24 hour road race car. LOL

Wow!!!
There’s a lot going on with that car!!

I like it.

It's a lot like a train wreck. I can't stop looking at it.

I had a nice chat with Paul Forte today and now I have a better understanding of what is going on. He said I can reduce the harshness of the 2-3 shift by loosening the front band a small amount. He thinks I might have it a hair too tight. He also suggested a full synthetic trans fluid to reduce the shift harshness that I feel when the transmission is cold.

He also said that I shouldn't down shift into first gear unless I'm stopped or moving very slowly. I told him I had downshifted to first for a traffic light but then got back into it when the light turned green. He said if you down shift into first at too high of a speed and then hit the gas hard you can break the sprag. They have had people do that when they use the race valve body on a street car. He builds a pro street valve body that prevents the problem but I don't really want to change valve bodies right now. I don't really need to down shift to first when the car is moving anyway so I just need to stop doing it.

Andy the type of valve body you have does not apply the band in first. The is no engine braking in first....if you were doing say 30 mph when you clicked it into first and took you foot off the gas the engine would drop down to idle. Back when a lot of us were your and foolish that was our secret advantage when street racing. from a roll. It would act like you had a much loser torque converter. At least until you rolled the sprag over. As Cab would say. Don't ask me how I would know

I thought if anyone knew this it would be you. You need a LBA valve body. I bought one to replace the Cheetah in my car if it ever gets back on the road, or to go with it if I ever send it down the road.

I really dig that Duster.

I used a lot of parts that came with the car and the valve body was one of them. Knowing what I know now I might have swapped the valve body or built a different trans. I might still change but I'd have to also change the shifter so the job gets a little more complicated now that everything is together. I'm learning to live with the valve body as is. I just don't shift down to first unless I'm at a dead stop. With the 4.56 gears out back I can slow down to a crawl in 2nd gear and still have enough torque to accelerate. So when I'm tooling around town I just use 2nd a lot.

I took it out today to run some errands. Drove more than 30 miles of stop and go traffic around town and it runs just fine. The coolant temp stays right around 185, oil temp runs around 180 degrees, trans fluid temp stays around 170 degrees. No leaks anywhere, brakes work great. Steering feel is good, it goes around corners just fine but it isn't a road race car.

I have driven so long with my old cheetah valve body I am afraid to go LBA. I am bad about dropping it into first as I slow down and just rolling up to the stoplight or whatever. If I ever swap to a low band apply I will probably eat steering wheel a few times until i get retrained.

The thing to keep me in mind is...... with a stock valve body and the shift selector in “drive”, low band apply doesn’t happen.
So, from a stop, the rmvb being shifted 1-2-3 is operating the trans in the same sequence as the stock vb does.

One of my customers had the shift points set where he wanted them with the shifter in “drive”, and raced the car like that for years.
High 11’s in a 3950lb car....... no lba while racing in “D”....... never an issue.

The issue isn't from normal upshifting, even if it shifting on the governor. The problem is from backing off then hitting it again the sprag is trying to control the speed of the drum but the drum weight overcomes the sprag pushing the fingers holding the wave springs back. After that happens the drum can over speed engine rpms times whatever first gear ratio the trans has

It took me one time.

^^^^^^^^ ME TOO ^^^^^^^

The factory got it right on this. It could be argued that the purpose of the band apply in Low is to provide engine braking--when needed. It also protects the over-running clutch when pulling a boat out of the water or tugging on a stump. No engine braking in first is normally a good thing. My first car was a police car (383hp B-body) that would down shift to first when coming to a stop (10mph?)--and you could feel it. It drew a lot of comments and I've never had another transmission that would do that. I traded it for a Charger before ever trying to figure out what was different. You could feel that it was ready for you to stab the throttle if you wanted/needed to. It might not take more than a drill bit to tie the rear servo to first gear in Drive-Breakaway, to use the FSM language. If you want spilled drinks in your interior.

I'm going to leave the transmission alone for now and just drive it like it has to be driven. Once I get some more miles on it (and some quarter mile passes) I'll know more about what is working and what isn't and then I can make a better decision on next steps.

Right now my focus is on tuning the engine. The left side of the engine is running 1 point leaner than the right side. I swapped the O2 sensors from side to side but that didn't make a difference. So the issue is the engine not the sensors. I think one cylinder on the left side has a bad plug or a bad plug wire so I'm going to change plugs and inspect the wires and then go from there. I could also have a weak injector on the left side but I think it is ignition related not fuel.

86 degrees today so I spent some time out driving the Duster around. The light was nice so I stopped and shot some pictures. The Duster is running pretty good at the moment. I had a PCV valve go bad and it threw me for a loop for a while since a bad PCV valve creates some problems for an EFI engine. The engine would surge and stutter at random times. I eventually pulled the PCV valve off and that seemed to clear up the problem.

Very cool car !!!!

Looks really nice. Good to see you out in it getting some seat time.

Andy I would be very proud of that car. Sits right, looks right, engine/drivetrain etc. are darn near perfect. I would take that car over a pro touring thing any day.

Thanks. It is a fun car to drive. It goes straight, handles pretty well, stops really well and goes hard when you get on it. It is noisy inside due to all of the bare tin but I think I could solve that by having an upholstery shop install some carpet. I do have a few things I'd like to improve on it such as putting a larger fuel cell in it and replacing the floor in the trunk. I'll also need to change the gears at some point since the 4.56 gears are just too steep for this engine. I think 4.10 gears would be better but I might need to drop down to the 3.90 range. I need to get more miles on the car before I'll know for sure. Here is another picture I snapped. Working on my car photography skills......

Andy did you have trouble with the Wenger PCV or was it a stock type valve? I have a Wenger valve in my 493 and it's worth the money IMO.
That Duster looks amazing and those 4.56 gears must be really snappy off idle

Gus

Awesome build as always Andy. Your books and posts are a huge help.

Nice CAR ! !
I love the EFI and Big Block in that A body !!!!!

I took the car over to the local alignment shop to have my home brew alignment double checked. The manager of the shop came out to look at the car and he said "what is that? I mean, I know what it is, but what is it?" He was confused by the coil packs and EFI on a big block in a Duster. Not to mention the Viper brakes and digital dash. He walked around the car a few times, stared at it and tried to process it all. Guess they don't see very many cars like this pull in for an alignment job.

Dare to be different

very nice car and pics andy ! i have always admired your work.
as gus mentioned, have you tried that adjustable [and rebuildable] PVC valve ?
i have two of them for my two projects [bought when we had a group buy] , but i haven't tried them because the engines going in them are no ways near built.
if you had a stock PVC valve, the adjustable one may be something to try. on the other hand, if indeed you DID have the adjustable one, and it was giving you problems, why do you suppose it didn't work with your EFI ?

If the Tech can't figure out how to operate the shifter, can't figure out how to take it on a test drive it or pull it in on the alignment rack, I usually take that as a sign I built a really good car.

People don't always know what to think when they see the modern stuff on an old school powerplant.

Yeah I took the Duster to a local auto shop that I use for my daily drivers and asked them to do a full safety inspection. They went over the whole car checking nuts and bolts and looking for leaks and stuff like that. They also did a test drive. I asked the owner how the test drive went and he said the car seemed really peppy! I asked him if he figured out the shifter and he said he just left it in drive. I told him that it was a full manual automatic so he was just driving around in third the whole time. He said it drove just fine. Which is actually true. With 600 ft-lbs of torque, 3150 lbs and 4.56 gears out back it does drive just fine in 3rd. It doesn't really need a transmission for driving around town, just leave it in 3rd all the time.

Summit has Koni shocks on sale so I picked up a pair for the front. I was running Calvert drag shocks up front. The Koni shocks make the car more stable on the street and they do a better job of soaking up little bumps in the road. I'm sure they'll slow the car down a bit at the track but I'd rather have something that is stable on the street than super fast at the track. Not sure why I put the drag shocks in the car in the first place, guess I had them sitting on the shelf so I figured I'd use them. Doesn't seem like a good choice now that I think about it.

One of the stocker tricks was to loosen the top nut on the shock shaft and run it that way at the track after going through tech with it install like stock
You may want to try that at the track to see if your car will like it or not

What are the part #s for those shocks? Summit's search doesn't come up with anything for old Mopars. Thanks!

Koni 80-1538 is the front shock for A,B and E body cars. If you search for a '70 Cuda the number will come up but if you search for a 1965 Dodge Coronet it won't find anything. I like the Koni shocks since they are adjustable. You just collapse them and then turn them a little bit and the shock will drop into adjustable mode and then you can make them firm or soft. I usually set them up on the firm side of the middle of the range.

Thanks Andy, I was looking for A-bodies and got nothin'.

That is because Koni doesn't know what an A body is. If you look in a Koni master catalog they only have listings for B and E body cars. Evidently the engineers who work for Koni aren't even aware of Mopar A body cars. But the shocks fit just fine.

I decided to pull out the 4.56 gears and swap in a set of 4.10 gears. Also decided to pull the fuel cell out of the trunk and build a custom 20 gallon tank to fit in the kick up area between the wheel tubs. Both projects are underway but neither one is proving to be easy! I was able to pull the Dana 60 apart but putting it back together requires some tools I don't have so I'm waiting for those. Doctor Diff set me up with the new gears as well as an install kit and a bunch of advice. I've also been following the FSM as well as this document from the Strange Engr website: https://www.strangeengineering.net/dana-60-gear-installation/

The FSM is useful but not spot on since the Strange S60 has side adjusters and some other little details that are different. Besides, the FSM approach is super complicated with expensive checking tools for pinion depth and such. Everyone I've talked says to just bolt it together, check the pattern and go from there.

The fuel cell project has been interesting. I think I've figured out how to solve the various issues I had with the cheap off the shelf fuel cell. I did a bunch of research into fuel cells and came to the conclusion that to run an EFI system on the street I needed a custom tank. I wasn't confident enough in my design knowledge to draw up a tank and have it built so I decided to work with a local chassis shop to customize an existing tank. We're adding a sump, replacing all of the mounts and brackets, redesigning the vent system and the filler tube. I'll snap some pictures once I start getting parts in hand.

I am doing a gear change on my s60, I bought the Strange spanner tool, you can use a punch, but the tool works great. I went from 3.54, to a 4.10

I do have the Strange spanner wrench for the side adjusters. My problem was I wasn't sure if the adjusters were RH or LH thread so I called Strange tech line. The guy I talked to told me they were LH thread. I grunted for a bit before I came to the conclusion that the tech guy was wrong! The side adjusters were really tight in my S60. I had to put a pipe on the spanner to loosen them up. I talked to another guy who said that he takes takes the torque off the main caps before turning the adjusters and then they move easily. I was told to remove the torque from the side adjusters first but maybe that was more bad advice.

The more difficult issues I've had are on the pinion side. I needed a small tool to pull the yoke and then another tool to install the pinion bearing cups into the housing and then another tool to press the rear bearing onto the pinion shaft. I've rebuilt transmissions before so I have a selection of bearing tools, but none of them were exactly correct for the Dana 60.

When I went back together I snugged the caps & then loosened them to where they were just BARELY tight & then set the back lash & preload, then torque the caps & then recheck the BL, the preload was set by both spanners touching the race with no play & then turn the left adjuster one click, ie one hole, this was all done while setting the BL
That is how much preload it had when I took it apart. about 5k miles on it.so the bearings are broke in,

I use old inner races stack onto the rear pinion bearings to press them on. I did make a set of set up bearing years ago for Dana 60 so I use them first and then install the new bearings after getting the pinion depth and pinion bearing preload set up on the pinion gear. Same thing on the carrier bearing preload and back lash shims on the OEM Dana 60
The Mopar FSM call for between .013 and .015 carrier bearing preload if my memory is correct.
I'm going through a Ford Nine inch Lincoln Versiale (SP?) rear end for my 1940 Ford Tudor sedan, the on line sources I've found call fo rbetween .003 and .005 carrier bearing preload, I've got a little more than that based on setting up 8 3/4 using the Mopar FSM installation instruction, pray for me on this Ford 9 inch rear end

Thats awesome, Andy. The car looks great! Glad you're getting some seat time

Dana 60 guys might be interested in the cover that I picked up. I had an LPW cast cover on there which I decided that I didn't like anymore so I pulled it off. I wanted a simple steel cover but I didn't want a cheap Pep Boys chrome cover. Turns out that Spicer sells a heavy duty bare steel cover for $38. This cover is made from 1/8 inch steel so it is much stronger than the original factory covers or the chinese tin covers. I was going to clear coat it but then I decided to get it nickel plated with a batch of parts. Turned out really nice.

I want to see the fuel cell, Im very partial to A bodys and ANdy you make some very nice parts/pieces !

This is such a nice "modern" car. But i like "modern" with the "old" engine. Not a new gen hemi..LOL