Cam Degree Question for my 505

getting ready to degree the cam, and was wanting your guys expertise for where to degree it at
440 stroked to 505, 11.2 compression, ported Stealth heads, victor intake, 950 Holly, MSD.
Comp Cams Solid XTQ294S-8. 68 Cuda, 727 and 3.73 Dana....
Weekend warrior/cruiser and occasional strip use.

I'd put it in at 104-105

106 if you have a timing chain.
108 if you have a gear or belt drive.

How good is your chassis and traction? If so so or worse then installed it straight up, if good or better advance to 102, 103 or 104 intake lobe center
Be ready for neck snapping acceleration with good traction

Car is still not together... run around from Bodyshop hell... thats another story.
But 90/10 shocks up front, Dana with 3.73 gears. Cope racing built 727 and a Dynamic converter, super stock springs on drag radials. subframe connectors and 6 point roll-bar, mini tubbed..
Should be fun

Install that rascal at 102 to 105 ILC and hope it hooks well on those tires
Be prepared to lift your right foot off the throttle once those tires start to spin, the radials won't recover until they stop spinning Can you say Donuts occur shortly after the rear tires start spinning

Wherever you choose, Chains stretch, and belts measured without load will be retarded in action. Plan for it in set up.

Same here.

106.5 install center line would give theoretical split overlap Intake opens 25.5 BTDC, Exhaust closes 25.5 ATDC. Add in some chain stretch and 105 to 106 should be good.

I finally got the cam dialed in. as close as I could get it anyway.
I had to advance it 8 deg on the crank., No more adjustment with the timing chain unless i use offset bushings I guess...
I'm using A JP Performance Double Roller Timing Chain 5606T

The #1 intake is now at 106 deg center-line.
intake opening @ .050 is at 26 deg btdc

I was surprised I had to advance it 8 deg... I even triple checked my method...

I verified TDC of the piston with a piston stop and dial indicator,The piston was roughly 1/2" down in he hole for this.

I used the center-line method @ .50 on the cam and also verified lifter opening @.050 using a dial indicator

This isn't my 1st cam install.... but it is the first one I used a degree wheel on

The picture is the intake lobe opening @ .050 on the degree wheel

Are you basing your intake cam timing off of the cam card or are you using the .050 before and after max lift on the intake lobe?
If based on the cam card try using the intake lobe timing at .050 before and again after max lift on the intake lobe and then verify the exhaust lobe is moved the same amount in relation to TDC
I've had more than one custom ground camshaft not have the lobe centers ground correctly on both sides of the cam
I've also had more then one timing set that the dots are not aligned or marked correctly on the cam sprocket
If the cam gear dot will not aligned perfectly with the crank gear dot move the cam gear dot one tooth to the passenger side and recheck your results
I HATE MURPHY

Just double-check your measuring the Intake lobe and not the exhaust lobe. The first lifter bore is the exhaust because of the valve arrangement on the head.

I used the measurements off the #1 intake lifter @ .050 before and after max lift to get the center-line.
So... it's advanced 2 deg from what the can card recommended.
I measured and have 106 deg intake center-line after advancing the crank sprocket 8 deg, the cam card calls for 108..
and the intake opening at .050 on the lifter is now at 26 deg, the cam card is 24 deg.. so the math jives between the two measurements... 2 deg.

So the two measurements tell me I advanced the cam 2 deg from what Comp recommends.... right ?
from 108 center-line to 106 center-line

Which what I understand, 104-106 is what the guys on the board would like to see

I used the intake , the second lifter from the front on the drivers side

Not saying it couldnt happen, but I have never had to advance a 108 cam 8 degrees to get it "back" to 106. Please double check all your readings and especially TDC. Its basically saying they had the cam at 114 degrees, which again, sh*t happens, but I find it hard to believe. I have put in a lot of Comps, and have never had that issue. I also vote for a safe and generic 104* install.2* is hardly noticable, but 104 is a great "safe and happy" spot on most 108 cams. Best of luck.

That's why I posted it... I thought it was pretty far out.
I will go through remeasuring again today...It won't take long with the engine still being on the stand
I did recheck the piston TDC before my last adjustment..
Wish me luck

1 tooth on the cam gear is 8* so you may be 1 tooth off there or you can advance it like that as your 106 if this helps any.

It is what it is....... You degreed it...... You triple checked it.

You're good to go.

What you found is exactly why they should always be checked.


If you feel like you need to prove it to yourself one more time, degree the exhaust lobe.
It should now be at 110.

Fwiw, I don't really rely on the cam card info to determine if the cam is in correct by the open/close points.
I use the degree wheel to determine the open/close points, then calculate the actual duration @.050, then use that figure to come up with the theoretical c/l of the lobe...... Then move it to where I want it(if necessary).
Ideally, my measured duration @.050 number and the cam card agree with each other, but they don't always....... Especially with rollers.

I guess what I'm saying is, I don't just use one reference point on the cam card(in your case, intake opening) to determine if the cam is where I want it.

One tooth is 14deg on the degree wheel.

14.4

720 crank degrees / 50 cam teeth

Joe

Rechecked it all today....
Piston TDC was still correct
But... I was mistaken, the crank gear was set for 6 deg advance, not the 8 i mentioned.... I'm guessing it was brain fade out in the hot barn to recall 8 deg.
It looks like the timing chain marks don't line up correctly... I moved it to either side, but still looks off some... all the other cam numbers looked good

And I got new comp lifters, the old ones... which were still in shrink wrap started to get some rust on the lobe side... look at the difference where the pushrod goes...
Old on the left, new on the right.. what gives with the new solids ?

When you move the cam, obviously the dot on the top gear isn't going to be straight down anymore..... You "moved" it.

Lifter on the left is an 821(standard series), lifter on the right should be a 2921(performance series).

The lifter on the right side of your picture looks like a hydraulic lifter to me, definitely not a solid.
You could have the old lifters fixed if you wanted to
I've had Delta Camshafts in Tacoma WA(253-572-2474) refinish several sets of old lifters that you can't buy now

You call it surface rust, I call it oil retaining texture!

R.

both boxes had the same part number... 821-16
The lifter on the left came with the cam when I got it from Mancini racing at the Nats along time ago, the one on the right I just got in from Jegs

Hers a pic from Jegs.... I agree, the top looks like a hydraulic, but no provisions for oiling

I don't think I would use a 273-360 LA motor lifter in a BB
Federal Mogul did make and sell some hydraulic lifters that where suppose to fit some of the late 1960s SB and BB from 1967 to 1970
I would think that those old solid lifter, if their more than ten years old., are probably better quality than the newer ones sold today
Call Delta and ask them about refinishing the bottoms of those old solid lifters
I had then refinish several sets of early Chrysler Fire Power 331/392 C.I. Hemi solid lifters that came with the 1/4 cup in them so I could reuse them in those older early Hemi motors, they came out great

The lifter on the right is a solid. It looks like the solid EDM lifters I use. Mine have the snap ring in them like that but are solid and mine have the hole in the side of the lifter for the EDM oiling on the cam lobe and the hole in the top center if you want to use pushrod oiling which I did not as I use the stock bigblock oiling to my rocker shafts. My pusrods are solid and block the top hole. Ron

This is why you degree the cam. If you just line up the dots, you would never have known how far it was off.

I mentioned the lifter bore question because the first time I tried to degree my cam (around 1980) I was trying to intake centerline the first lifter (exhaust), and could not figure out why the numbers kept coming out all messed up?

I have had good results with the 440 source timing sets and Comp Cams where the timing was really close dot-to-dot.
Worst I had seen was a Olds 455 with Howards cam and unknown brand timing set on a friends boat engine. I think it was 15 degrees off, and I don't recall the number of gear teeth, but I think being a tooth off was like 20 degrees or so? I think we had to install the cam a tooth off advanced and the retard crank slot to get the cam close?

Okay, let me rephrase it........

None of the cam companies manufacture flat tappets. They buy them.

The lifter on the left is made by Stanadyne, and is what Comp sold under part number 821-16 for years. They are a one piece "solid" lifter...... And they're heavy.

The lifter on the right is made by Hy-Lift Johnson, and used to be what you got when you bought 2921-16. They are a multi-piece design and are lighter than the Stanadyne part.

Teachin an old dog new tricks.... I really appreciate everybody's help..... That's what makes these boards so awesome !

I painted the block today with Por15 engine paint...It looks good, I just hope it holds up. It looks glossier then the spray bomb stuff I've always used... Liquid Purity The purist may not like it... but I do for my application. It's Hemi Orange

I never thought I would brush paint an engine

Any idea on who made the Federal Mogul hydraulic lifters ten + yrs. ago for both SB and BB Mopars ?