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School me on electric water pumps.

Posted By: G_bob

School me on electric water pumps. - 02/23/09 04:52 PM

At what point, should an electric pump be considered?
Is it an HP or RPM question. Too much of either making it more prone to throw belts?

How about when there will be an alternator in the mix as well? Alt will have a micro switch that shuts it off under full throttle.

I've looked at the Meziere, Moroso and Summit electric pumps that just bolt in place of the stock-type unit.
Are these constant duty pumps that will live on street driving as well?

An electric pump will make pulley alignment easier given the new motor plate and alternator. Just have to align the alt to the crank if I were to go electric pump.

Just wondering if they hold up to constant duty driving to local cruises, etc., or if they're designed to just work for 1/4 mi bursts.
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: School me on electric water pumps. - 02/23/09 04:54 PM

Well for most it is a matter of being able to cool the car down between rounds. With an electric pump and fan it is easier to cool the car off than with a mechanical set up. AS for street driving I have never done it but know of a few that do with no issues. As for the pumps themselves I prefer the Meziere ones.

I run an alternator as well. I need the current to keep everything running on the car. There is a fair amount of electronic stuff on my heap.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: School me on electric water pumps. - 02/23/09 05:00 PM

Quote:

At what point, should an electric pump be considered?
Is it an HP or RPM question. Too much of either making it more prone to throw belts?

How about when there will be an alternator in the mix as well? Alt will have a micro switch that shuts it off under full throttle.

I've looked at the Meziere, Moroso and Summit electric pumps that just bolt in place of the stock-type unit.
Are these constant duty pumps that will live on street driving as well?

An electric pump will make pulley alignment easier given the new motor plate and alternator. Just have to align the alt to the crank if I were to go electric pump.

Just wondering if they hold up to constant duty driving to local cruises, etc., or if they're designed to just work for 1/4 mi bursts.




I know of alot of guys running them on their street
rods(I do also), they flow plenty for the street.
Most likely your pulley's have a alignment issue
to pitch the belt unless its a SUPER long belt. I
have been running a alt belt turning 8000+ rpm and
never pitched it. Look at the alignment when the belt
is tight... also take the belt and lay it on a flat
surface, if its bowed up its a alignment issue
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: School me on electric water pumps. - 02/23/09 05:18 PM

Bob, I`m going on 6 years w/my drop in moroso and it cools good and frees up a few ponies. My alt drives off of the crank w/one belt and that`s it.
Posted By: RussW

Re: School me on electric water pumps. - 02/23/09 05:44 PM

I used to run a Proform 100 amp GM alt and never had a problem throwing the belt.
Then I switched to a Powermaster 140 and and threw the belt off every pass, switched to the pulley off the Proform and solved the problem, I also use the smaller alum drive pulley.

I run a Moroso pump with a MP alum housing with no issues but I don't drive on the street.
Posted By: G_bob

Re: School me on electric water pumps. - 02/23/09 06:02 PM

Thanks guys. I haven't had a problem pitching belts. My new motor plate is thicker than the old one, by .125" or so. Crank pulley had an .085" spacer on it before, so it would need more to align with the w/p pulley now.

We'll be fabbing mounts for the new alternator, so that will be easy to get aligned with the crank pulley. Was just thinking not having to align a w/p pulley with the crank pulley, we could elimiate the crank pulley spacer altogether and just align the alternator with the crank.
Posted By: 70blackfish

Re: School me on electric water pumps. - 02/23/09 06:25 PM

here my meziere, works great

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Posted By: AndyF

Re: School me on electric water pumps. - 02/23/09 07:36 PM

Mancini Racing has pulley spacers if that is what you want. They sell a 0.375 thick spacer for the crank pulley to match the 0.375 thick motor plates.
Posted By: G_bob

Re: School me on electric water pumps. - 02/23/09 07:49 PM

Quote:

Mancini Racing has pulley spacers if that is what you want. They sell a 0.375 thick spacer for the crank pulley to match the 0.375 thick motor plates.




I looked at that and I wish it was as simple. My previous plate was .250" thick and the crank pulley had a .850 spacer behind it. They were lined up perfect.
So, in effect, I need an additional .125 to equal the new .375" plate. 440 source has a .125 shim, but not sure I want to stack spacers and shims behind the pulley.

I'll get it figured out once I have the motor back in hand.
Posted By: AndyF

Re: School me on electric water pumps. - 02/23/09 08:19 PM

You must have the wrong set of pulleys then. Might be easier to just buy the correct pulley's and then you only need the one .375 spacer and it will all line up.
Posted By: n_bogie1984

Re: School me on electric water pumps. - 02/23/09 08:24 PM

on my truck i have run no alt for some time, but my power steering and water pump ran off same belt, spitting the belt off at 8000 rpms is no good, i myself with with the summit settup that bolts into the old houseing works great, oonly issues i had is with the open thermostat it pushed water threw to fast and my 2 elec fans couldnt keep it cool.
Posted By: moparniac

Re: School me on electric water pumps. - 02/23/09 08:58 PM

Quote:

here my meziere, works great




how far does that meziere stick out of the housing.. total length?

thx
Posted By: G_bob

Re: School me on electric water pumps. - 02/23/09 10:42 PM

Quote:

You must have the wrong set of pulleys then. Might be easier to just buy the correct pulley's and then you only need the one .375 spacer and it will all line up.




You're right. Offset on my pulley is 1.5". Correct should be 2". I "think" the balancer is a little thinner than stock (maybe .100") so that plays in as well.

It was previously set up with .250" plate, .850" crank pulley spacer and 1.5" offset pulley. That "should" have put the crank pulley .100" out past the w/p pulley but it didn't, they were aligned. That's what leads me to think the balancer is a little thinner.

I may very well just get the electic water pump, correct crank pulley and then just set up the new alternator to align with the crank pulley, wherever it ends up.
Posted By: PUNK

Re: School me on electric water pumps. - 02/23/09 10:54 PM

G-Bob, since you are so close to Bobs shop, I would take a little drive over there so you can see the low mount alternator setup that he has that is to be used in conjunction with an electric water pump. My brothers car runs a Meziere electric water pump on the street and its fine when its cool outside. However his is only the 35gpm version. I have heard that the bigblocks have a 55 gpm version by meziere and they have no street cooling issues. If I was you I would definitely do the Meziere with the low mount alternator/brackets/pulleys that Bob has over there. The belt ends up being very short and the alternator is out of the way. Bob sells the ones made by a company called Doty.com. VERY nice stuff. They are worth power to. My friends car picked up 2.5 mph when he swapped to an electric water pump. Thats all he changed!

Attached picture 5047622-DougsCuda1-18-08042(Large).JPG
Posted By: Sport440

Re: School me on electric water pumps. - 02/24/09 12:29 AM

Go with the electric pump. On my ride the switch was worth .2 tenths pump/fan.

Its a tough call as to witch one to pick. If you have the aluminum housing Id consider either a Moroso or Meziere drop in. But I dont think they are nearly as efficient as the complete bolt on counterparts.

Summit has their own pumps now too but their listed price doesnt include the manifold housing.


As far as the pumps motors continuous duty, Meziere claims 2000 hours.

And as comparison Summit claims 10,000 hours.

Ive not seen nor recall any claims from Moroso on thier pumps life.

But my advice, go with a electric pump as I know your looking for extra hp. And any of the pumps listed above should be enough to cool your ride and then some. mike


Edit,Spelling correction my spelling sucks sometimes.
Posted By: SportF

Re: School me on electric water pumps. - 02/24/09 01:38 AM

Switching to an electric water pump dropped my time by .2 as well. And if you would have told me this before I changed it I wouldn't have beleived it. But it is worth some serious ET changing my car from a solid 12.0 secs down to in the 11.75 to 11.80 seconds when I did it.
Posted By: mopar65

Re: School me on electric water pumps. - 02/24/09 02:37 AM

Quote:




Summit has their own pumps now too. Sport440 i have one of the summit pumps on my car. which if you take the summit sticker off is a CVR pump. MY old 65 plymouth with my old 440 used to run 10.80 in the 1000 ft. All i did was add 1.6 roller rockers and add a moroso electric water pump drive. After thoses changes i ran back to back 10.40 in the 1000 foot.Here is a pick of the summit water pump. Mopar65

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Posted By: blownzoom440

Re: School me on electric water pumps. - 02/24/09 02:58 AM

i am using the moroso elec pump and it keeps up well.

Attached picture 5048396-Picture026.jpg
Posted By: 1Bad440

Re: School me on electric water pumps. - 02/24/09 03:21 AM

Check this one out
Item number: 200311535983 Ebag
Posted By: Bob_Coomer

Re: School me on electric water pumps. - 02/24/09 04:14 AM

Let me ask this, How much of a weight gain is there over the old cast iron water pump, compared to the all new self contained electric units sold through CSR/meziere unit? Besides the 10-15 hp gains.
Posted By: Saskabusa

Re: School me on electric water pumps. - 02/28/09 05:35 PM

I have a moroso drop in 35 gph. It's good at the track but inadaquet on the high way.
Posted By: juicedcuda

Re: School me on electric water pumps. - 02/28/09 07:12 PM

Quote:

Let me ask this, How much of a weight gain is there over the old cast iron water pump, compared to the all new self contained electric units sold through CSR/meziere unit? Besides the 10-15 hp gains.




The meziere pump for a BB is 7# The aluminum MP WP housing and pump with moroso motor is 14.5#

The stock WP housing and pump weighs 21# add pullys and 1.5# Moroso motor and your looking at 23 to 24#

So your looking at a 15# + minimum difference between a Meziere and a stock steel housing,pump and moroso motor.

Info from "sport440".
Posted By: BDS871Cuda

Re: School me on electric water pumps. - 02/28/09 11:04 PM

Quote:


As far as the pumps motors continuous duty, Meziere claims 2000 hours.

And as comparison Summit claims 10,000 hours.





I wouldn't trust the Summit, but the Meziere
claims 2000 hours.

It would take 5 to 6 years to put 2000 hours
on a Street/strip car, maybe even longer!
Posted By: fourgearsavoy

Re: School me on electric water pumps. - 03/01/09 01:26 AM

Summit just dropped the price on the pump to $161.00 now for that price I will give it a try.If it fails all I have to do is go in and set it on the counter and they will hand my money back.
Gus
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