Raceday story with a not so happy ending

Well we had a rough weekend with cars around here. First off Friday night while my son was making license passes in a friends door car we had a little mishap. Seems some bolts from the rocker stands decided to pull the threads and come apart. Doesn't look horrible but will need some thread repair and a couple pushrods at least.

Turn to Saturday for our 4th bracket race of the year. My son has only been racing for just over a year. This was his 11th race overall. We started him in Super Pro and he has been learning. Lots of close racing but all in all doing better overtime out. Making better decisions up top mainly. He got down to 5 cars at the last race so we were optimistic going into Saturday. Well he was doing well again, got by round one and headed to round two had a tough opponent and local racing family who has a few NHRA National championships under their belts. Anyway was a great race. Opponent was .007 on the tree my son was .001 he got up top killed .012 in ET and 4MPH and took a .010 stripe for the W. Unfortunately he thought the battery had dies as the car would not restart. So we towed it back and hooked it up. Towed him to the line just incase, as we had little time to charge between rounds. When we got him to the point we could let it run for some heat(E85)he went to start it, I knew immediately it was not a battery issue but rather a catastrophic engine issue. So we loaded up and went home. After this he tells me he ripped the throttle twice to back into his opponent and went to put it in neutral and it just shut off. So likely went book then..

Yesterday I decided to start tearing into it. Decided to pup the radiator cap and have a look. Hmmm no water. So I am now optimistic. Maybe we just lost a head gasket. So start pulling plugs. Hmmm no water coming out, try to spin it now Bueno. I had noted #6 plug was very clean, like new infact. So get the trusty bore scope camera out and have a look. What I found was not a pretty sight..Part of a piston staring back at me.
Seems it had hydrauliced #6 so the teardown proceeded.

The pictures that follow may be hard to look at and not suitable for young children. They are graphic images to be sure. . #6 made a big mess for sure. The rest of the engine looked great and almost new. Anyway for those who have heard me say you are living on borrowed time with a stock block this is what they can do..FWIW this was a stock bore stock stroke 440 with a set of stock replacement Ross pistons, 440source H beams a small roller and a set of OOTB -1 heads. Ran on E85 and in out 1875lb dragster ran 8.30's on its last pass here in Vegas at altitude and a 90 degree day..

now we need to find something to put in the car for him to keep the learning curve going.


Borescope pic, Not the bst image but the black spot is the missing piston.


This is once that head was removed




Rest of that piston in the oil pan, and a nice look at some of the missing cylinder wall



Some of the junk in the pan, was a few pounds of it all together..


Lastly the start of the issue. Thing never puffed smoke or had any issue before going boom in the lights.

Major bummer... I thought you were just
checking cyl wall thickness but.. doing it
the hard way... good luck getting something
back into the car

So what do you think the root cause of the problem was? Did the cylinder fail first or the piston?

Did the cylinder wall let go and get the piston or vice versa?

Treed

The rusty cracks in that bottom picture point to the cylinder going first.

How many runs on the motor, piton weight and max RPM?
I'm just curious because I run my junk hard and have been lucky over the years I'd guess.

Been there, no fun. Time to toss the 511 in.

Bummer! Time for a low deck light wieght deal?

Thats my opinion also... I had the same issue on
one of my SBs but it didnt hurt anything and I
had to have a sleeve put in... at least on mine
the piston didnt want to turn the engine over..
it was full of water on that one hole

when you fast guys break something ouch

What a bummer. How'd the cylinder head fair?

On a side note, it could have been alot worse. Glad everyone's okay.

Ouch... glad everything stayed inside!

Can you post a pic of a good piston - I have a partial set of what I think are Ross units - maybe between us we can make a good set without the high dollar set up fees to match a piston.

I sold the 511 to a guy in NorCal that needed an engine as this one just needed to finish out the year and has been doing fine.

The cylinder wall let go, surprised really it hydrauliced the cylinder. Never actually seen one do this before. Just dropped the heads off at a local shop, the guy he beat in RD 1. Told him wish you have won that round as we would have loaded up and likely found the issues next fire up when the cylinder filled with water. Then would have just been a block. So to answer the head question it bent both valves in that cylinder as well as banged up the head a bit. No real big damage will get fixed and be good to go. All the damage to block and heads were limited to #6. Still spun like butter once we removed the loose chunk of piston. All the bearings looked new as well. Need to scramble now to find something for the kid. I don't have anything except a couple of aluminum B1's to put in it and not ready to do that yet as they will likely be under the 7.50 mark.

Will post a pic up of a piston later. They are no use to me at this point.

Greg I had a good low deck built but see above. Someone was in need and I let it go. I have a couple 400 blocks left but not sure I wanna put a lot of money into one to finish the year. We will have an Indy/B1 for it next year just need to order pistons for it, a cam and get some good rockers for it. Then assemble it and get it in the car. He is on a tight budget and I am done paying for everything.

At least the mains stayed intact. Was this block sonic checked?
Doug

Bummer Al!! Ouch!

It sucks. I wish I was closer and had one to loan you. I would. I have a lot of respect for you on here. Good luck, I hope something good turns up.

Doug, No we did not bother. It was just a "sterter" deal for the kid. Was my motor for my 68 D100 But you know how it is..

"Hey look 8.80's from a street motor cool"

"has to be more in it"

"cool .70's...60's... still has to be more"

"nice now we are getting somewhere 50's, 40's"

"lets try a new converter 30's 20's"

"Uh oh" (actually not quite those words. The actual reply was caught on video and is on facebook from someone else video of the car behind us

And now the rest of the story. I just cannot leave stuff alone. Never changed anything inside the engine at all. It was me trying to eek out whatever was in there. Couple converters, different launch RPM, shock and 4 link stuff some carb tweaking to get it in the .20's here in Vegas. It ran well for not much for sure, .28 at 161 with a 1.12 60' best. Yes in a dragster but still considering it was mostly stockish shortblock stuff we had around, which was his budget it was doing good. The cylinder walls are quite thin on a non thrust side to be sure. Easy to see now

In the end stock production parts are not created equal. Had we been concerned with the block for a build trying to make more power we would have done more due diligence. Or likely used an aftermarket block. This was never intended to be the be all end all for him. Just an engine to let him run a couple years get his feet wet and learn the lessons of racing Super Pro. I did not want him going 7.50's to start with. Still not sure I am ready for that, although he thinks he is. All I have available will get him there or better likely. So we are weighing options at this point. Just wish I had a plug and play option for now as he will likely miss the MATS here in Vegas as well as next couple bracket races.

Very sorry to see and hear this Al but like others have said the outcome could have been worse. Hope you guys get it up and running again soon

Yuck! That hurts just looking at it. Good luck on getting it back out while the kid is hot.

I am a little fuzzy about the translation of the last sentence or so....

"After this he tells me he ripped the throttle twice to back into his opponent and went to put it in neutral and it just shut off. So likely went book then.."

Man I hate seeing and hearing about this stuff. It does happen though. I'm sure the next engine will be even better.

Probably meant , So likely went BOOM then. Just my take on it .

Man that sucks...hope you guys get it up and running soon the season is Young...

Sorry to see that Al, that kind of stuff is always a setback for sure. Good luck with it.

Hate to see that Al. A little off the main subject but how is your new project going? Just curious. Thanks

From Facebook



500 Inch B1 Engine
$8,500
Grantsville, MD (21536)
500 inch B1 headed big block complete from carb to pan. B block 230 casting, B1 originals ported, T&D rockers, Comp roller cam and lifters, BME aluminum rods, Mopar 4.15 crank, Ross pistons, 12.5 to 1 compression, 1150 King Demon. This will come complete oil system and everything. There are 12 1/8 mile passes on this engine and about 30 street miles. $8500.00 obo. 301-707-5852

Al,
I have 2 440 blocks, 3 stock cranks, 8 Probe pistons out of my car, & 6 h-beam rods (Scat I think). Let me know if any of this would help. Just loading it up for the swap meet at end of next month. Also have a dragster style pan if yours is bad.

Ron

. Would a 750 cfm carb slow it down enuff?

looks like the valve whacked the piston pretty good too

YUK! Sorry to see this Al. I hate these sort of posts. Best of luck getting a new bullet together.

Exhaust valve hit yes and is bent as is the intake valve and some shrapnel damage to the chamber but nothing big, easy fix.

Yes to clarify we think that's when it went boom. As it shut off then.

Broom Hilda we are still weighing options. Appreciate the info and we may be getting ahold of you. Kind of looking for a shortblock, just something solid and decent parts. May have one located already. Everything else from the engine is fine except #6. Crank has no damage it appears, heck even that rod bearing in that hole was fine. So if we could locate someone with a block crank and rods and pistons we are set.

Pittsburgh, we have a B1 engine sitting here that is a new build with only dyno time. Just not sure I want to go there now. We also have one we have been collecting parts for as he has monies. It was to be next years engine for him. Just a basic 850ish HP aluminum block deal. Just needs pistons, cam and a few other small things to get machine work done. Heads are done, block is waiting final hone.

Wax, Other project is basically done. We have a date next week with Gary Hansen to get the air pan built for the scoop and some other little odds and ends finished up. Then it is pretty much ready to go, just have to make an engine decision. Might pull it back out and change some stuff and fix a couple little issues. One reason I don't want to put the other Kb/B1 deal I have in the dragster as I am thinking of putting it in the Stratus for now while we address some issues.

Myron yep want to get him back in the car sooner than later. He is still learning and don't want that to stop. He is not running points here this year as his older sister has her wedding on the ET finals date. But if he were he would be top 10 right now, I believe tied for 5th even not going anymore rounds Saturday due to the failure.

Big boom bummer.

Hey Al what RPM you guys spinning to ? Sorry to see the mess mate.

Al, are those piston Hyper silicone cast pistons? If not, I never seen a forged piston discentrigrate (SP) like yours did I have seen cast pistons do that
I believe the piston failed first allowing the wrist pin to destroy the cylinder wall and block

Never like to see this Al but w/your connections, you guys will be up and running soon I believe...........Good luck man............

Ouch, that sucks! I'm sure you'll get it back up and running soon!

Cab it is a forged Ross piston.

Dom we are still looking at options for now.

Yeah sucks for sure. Was hoping to get 5-6 more races out of this thing this year and move on. Now my poor truck has no engine.

Al,
What about the indy deal you got from me?

Tom that is what he is collecting parts for..Block is all fixed and ready to go, just needs a final hone. Have a new set of 7.1 R&R rods for it and a Callies 4.375 crank. make a nice 566" piece for him we think.

Hi Al, my dad is on here and has a very nice short block for sale in Nevada. Not sure it will suit what you are looking for. His name on here is Merpar. He is selling it due to a KB short block he acquired.
http://www.racingjunk.com/Rotating-Assem...amp;from=search

That bites! On a good note Chris and I just fired up the 511 motor you sold him. It sounds real good.

I seem to be on the ignore list....

I have a low deck 230 block for sale in the race part sec, good luck guys

I thought he answered you by saying , Yes that's when we think it went boom. Maybe not though, But I think I will put you on ignore myself, to winey, just kidding brother.

I put myself on ignor. I know bs'er when I hear one

Well I thought I covered this but lets make doubly sure I did. I have fat fingers and a small phone. I don't always prod read what I type and it shows frequently, probably cause I am getting old and the letters seem to keep getting smaller these days. So to hopefully clear up the confusion the last sentence should read "So likely went boom then" not book...Hope that helps

Thanks for all the offers. At this point I think we are gonna toss in a B1 engine I have had lying around here in it. We just need to figure out how to slow it down a bit as I don't want him going under 7.50. Should have enough power to get the dragster to 185 or so. Also plan to finish up the other B1 deal he has started and get that back into the car as it will likely stay over the 7.50 mark. He wants to try his hand at some Super Comp racing so we may just put it on the stop and start working on that program.

Will get the Indy heads fixed up and likely sell off all that Indy stuff I have left. Heads intakes etc.

FWIW I have NO ONE on an ignore list. I read everything from everyone, kinda have too. Sorry if I have left an answer to a question out, was not my intention for sure. Everyone is entitled to ask questions and have them answered.

After you get it back together put a smaller carb
on it to slow it down

https://maine.craigslist.org/pts/5996801352.html

This seems very similar to what you had. Not mine, and pretty far but you never know. Sorry, I see your last post about the b1. Good luck I hope it works out for you.

Think we may have found the root issue on why #6 failed. This is the non thrust side of #6. Maybe next time we should break out the sonic tester 😎

Was it filled?

Nope, didn't see the need since it was a street motor for my 68 D100..We just got greedy

Oh yeah don't worry we filled the framerails..Since no one wanted to buy it we stuck it here

Looks great!!! I want one. Have fun!!

Find a center section yet?

No we have not but have not had time to look really..Honestly be happy to just find a 35 spline 4.11 gear.

Sorry to hear about your motor problems... but dang, you have a really nice friend...