OK.... Back from vacation..... 11.50@ Norwalk... Rules help

GentryAutos.com. 11.50 Shootout

Payout

Win 750
Runner up 350
Semi's. 150
1/4's. 75

Entry fee..... 20 bucks

.500 pro tree
No use of transbrake

How about help/ suggestions on what the rest of the rules should be. I would like to enforce courtesy staging , but other than that need ideas

Don

Buyback $15

Pre-entry of $35 that includes buyback!! It saves a later trip to buyback mountain!! I like this class Don

You're going to need 85 entries at $20 each just to pay the purse. Does Norwalk get the crowded?

No delay box or electronics?

Slicks okay?

2-step allowed?

Line lock?

Full exhaust?

I am not expecting this to be a venture to make money. Just want to do it for the fun of it, because I can. And not getting any younger.

Slicks seems fine. Full exhaust not required.

No transbrake allowed to be used seems good too.

The line locks and two steps are the areas I need the most advice in.

Kinda wanting this to be a foot brake kinda thing.....

No throttle stops

No chev's or fords

Kind of like the NSS rules - 2 steps only with a stick shift car, no trans brakes, no electronic throttle stops, no delay boxes, ect ect.

Thanks for stepping up Don and promoting another class.

Tell us more about that "500 pro tree" Hows that gonna work?

Well, you can run a 4 tenths( 400) or 5 tenths(500) pro tree. In this class it will be 500.
Was that just a stupid comment, or were you serious?

X2. Now to get my car to run 11.5's. LOL.

May have to add a little juice

Thats fine, but are these posted purses gauranteed? I'm from PA and race with a handful of 11.50 cars that would run the class. But, it wouldn't be fun to tow the trip to find out 15 people showed and the purse was drastically cut. $20 is a great deal for $750, but that puts the promoter in a pretty deep hole.

The purse is guaranteed no matter the car count. Period. I am paying the purse personally. It isn't coming out of entry fees or from the promoter.
Come and have fun, there will be plenty of people in this class.

I like the idea.

No trans brakes
No electronics
Two steps on stick cars
Line locks for burn outs only
No air/electric shifter's
No electronic throttle stops

Make it a true foot brake class.

That is exactly the rules I hope everybody is happy with, in addition to courtesy staging being in effect.
When I was 10.0 racing I hated it when guys would drive in and turn on bolth bulbs before you even got up to prestage.
Maybe one warning( which should be more than enough) second time your disqualified.

To guys that don't race on a pro tree often, it's somewhat of an advantage to get completely in and get settled before the other guy even prestages.

The only issue I foresee with the courtesy stage rule is you might have guys who want to deep stage.

Triple Threat brings up a good point. I know I would be deep staging

No deep staging. On a pro tree it just isn't fair to the other driver.

I agree

I never get the pro-tree bracket thing. This isn't going to be a big spectator drawing class, so theres not really any argument about people not wanting to see red lights. Foot brake off the bottom bulb and give everyone a chance.

That's the thing... not many 11.50 cars are going to leave very well on a .500 pro tree. Anyone who can is going to try and get the car in as deep as they can for sure to cut a light.

X2

I ran a street car race last fall that ran a .500 pro tree. I had a ball, I sucked at but still had a ball, LOL. I was the only guy foot breaking and still won my class.

I agree

There is already a bottom bulb foot class at Norwalk. It's called Sportsman.
The idea of this class is to allow slower less expensive cars to race like the 10.0 Shootout with the pro tree and have some fun.
Just think something new and interesting will provide some fun, at least I hope so.
The fact guys aren't going to cut ultra great lights all the time will make the finish line more fun, and I am sure people will slow down quicker cars to try it too.
Trust me, if people don't like it I won't do it again... Lol
I want to try it too, but I seriously doubt in summer air I will get with 2 tenths of 11.50. May just be a duck and try anyhow

pro tree mixes things up a little and kind of takes the every week racer off his game a little.It sounds like this is meant to be a fun race and it's already taking on the seriousness of a 10k race.just my 2 pennys worth.

It's winter time most places, it's fun to talk racing. Still have a few months here before anything is going down a track... Lol

I'm willing to give it a go but Dragway 42 might get all my weekends seeing as I have to drive past there to get to Norwalk

Gus

I like the pro tree idea, I have never done it and im sure most havent so it will be a new fun thing to raz/brag to each other about in the pits!!

I remember one year at the Classic I entered the stick race and they were running a Pro-tree and I didn't know it that was a surprise
It was still fun

Gus

The Pro-Tree deal is definitely fun, especially when you're not used to it.

Make it a pro tree and someone sharp is going to mop the floor. This should be rookie type deal for the occasional racer to have a chance. As Dizuster said most street type cars won't come close on a .500 pro tree. But guaranteed someone will. Just like a few years ago when a .400 full tree was used to level the playing field and eliminate red lights at Quaker City. Same 2 cars the final for 5 out of 6 races. Just my 2 cents.
Doug

Somebody is always gonna be good.
I want the pro tree and index. It's the reason I am doing this.
If I wanted to just watch guys run 11.50 I could watch NSS that runs that. Or watch sportsman guys just foot brake on a full tree.
Same thing could be said about the 10.0 thing too. Very few guys run that other than at Norwalk from this part of the country. It's something different.
Somebody always doesn't like this or that about something no matter what it is, so it is what it is. I get to decide, somebody has at the end of the day or it would never become reality.
I figure guys have a good chance for 750 bucks with a 20 dollar entry. Frankly, those that have no interest in it don't have to do it. I will pay out the money and enjoy watching. If it seems there is more whining than it's worth I just will learn my lesson and not do it again......


Anyhow, this thread has had plenty of good points.... Here will be the rules( subject to running it by Josh) for the race

.500 pro tree
11.50 index
No transbrake
Two steps for stick cars only to launch
No line lock use except to do a burnout, the intent is to have this be off the foot.
No deep staging
Courtesy staging in effect, no disqualification if you don't, but respect your fellow racer as a good sport and don't get in until both top bulbs are lit.
2 qualifying shots, at least one must be 11.50 or slower, under on both your out. I want to put this in because guys with cars that are way faster than 11.50 who will invariably enter should have it figured out to run 11.50 by the second pass in qualifying. If not, you don't get in the show.10.0 used to have this same rule, it bit me as luck would have it...
No throttle stops or air shifting

Payout guaranteed no matter the number of entries
750
350
150
75

Have fun and good luck to all

Any questions at Norwalk, look me up, or just ask away on here or at the head of staging when this class gets called out.

I applaud the effort. I like the qualifying idea.
Doug

I like it. I ran a .500 pro tree when I ran 12's against same class cars. It was a lot of fun. If you were doing this closer to me, I might have to build a whole nother car just to play. I know the Mustang I built when I was still in NY ran mid to low 11's. The deal was anyone who helped sponsor it got to drive it. It was a real blast for all.

Sounds fun. Pro tree is a challenge on a footbrake street car, but it adds to the fun. Now to find a tenth...

I yanked all my belts off to run 11.66 in good air. Gonna go manual steering, electric water pump and fan. That will get me back to 11.60's. Not sure I am gonna have any more than that. Especially in summer air.
I do have one secret weapon, trying my old 950 dyno carb against the pro systems 950 I bought and ran the 66 with
I think the dyno carb is better.... But it's uglier.. Lol
Will swap them after I get it out this spring and try back to back testing....... Maybe I will try and put Pat Norton behind the wheel, he is probably 150 pounds soaking wet, that should be a solid tenth and a half over my 310..lol

Don I think it's great you and Brenda have step up to put on a great race don't let some people get under your skin with there negative comments you are doing a great thing it's going to be great and the car count will be very strong

I agree with Scott it's your venue your rules and I applaud you for doing it, I know I had a blast running the 10.0 shootout and pro tree, it was different and a challenge because it was somthing that was new to me.

I did pro tree for the first time last year. It's very hard to get used to with a foot brake car, but it was really fun because it was different! I tried it first at Milan at a T&T and then the Roadkill event in Pontiac was a pro tree.

I'm all for it, it will for sure mix things up.

As for the razzing....you'll do that to me anyway. LOL.

I like these rules! Thanks again.

Sorry...... In the rules, I should have said guys...... And gals

My apologies DusterGirl340

LOL, I didn't even notice! It's all good.

Sounds like you guys and girls are in for a good time. Have FUN.

I think it sounds like fun too, and I'll be looking for a tenth or two also.
let see, remove front bumper, back seat,50# tool box from trunk, 1/4 tank of fuel. I\m half way there.

Pro tree with a stick car can be a challenge but I'm up for it. Now I just have to plan my vacation time and get a few passes on the new drivetrain before then.
Thanks again to Don for sponsoring this class it should be filled with some fast "real" street cars.
Gus

Like the others said, thanks for stepping up to support this.

I ran 11.62-11.64 last year during DragWeek on pumpgas...Maybe I'll stick to the diet this year, and if I have to pour in some good gas and bump up the timing. I was planning a head swap, just not sure its in the cards this year...

New rule: No soaking wet 130# substitute drivers allowed!! Thanks Don for putting this class into the mix, it should be a lot of fun as we have watched the 10.0 guys for years enjoying!!

I am gonna try to lose some weight. In fact I have to. Gonna get hip replaced this coming fall. But if I didn't have a single bite to eat before Norwalk, Norton is still a tenth and a half over me if I can snag him to drive.... Lol
My car would go whew, that monster is out of the drivers seat.....

dammit!

Don,

Thanks again and I don't see an issue with any of the rules at this point


I am updating the website now and will have a news letter out to the mailing list and on social media soon -



The only question I would have is what day would we like to run this on? We can run it in conjunction with the 10.0 and regular scheduled classes on Saturday or we can make it a Friday Night Race

Good question Josh.
Fri night sounds good, but I know a lot of people don't show up till Sat morning. So unsure what would be the best way to go.
Probably lean to doing it along with 10.0 on Sat night back to back with them

Hey for what it's worth I weigh 185 with the suit for anybody looking for a driver.
Doug

For what it's worth I weigh way less than 185. heh heh...

How about only muffler cars?

Damn I'm going to have to take all the boost out for the first 660ft. It's ok to run 11.50@140mph right? Lol

Just curious on this one as I've never driven a turbo car but how much boost can a footbrake car make at the line

I like racing my car with mufflers but the 2-step doesn't play well with mufflers. After nearly blowing one of my mufflers up I don't run them with the 2-step anymore.
But maybe with the Pro-Tree start it wont be an issue
Gus

Sounds like a fun deal. But you may have some problems with the "no deep stage". What if the top bulb goes out a micro second before the tree comes down. Is that a deep stage? How can you track that? What if you are not sure the top bulb did go out just before the tree flashes?

What if the guy revs and creeps through the first stage, can you make that a red light in the tower? What is wrong with deep staging? Can you enforce a "must shallow stage"? What about the guy who "almost deep stages"? That would be ok right?

I think curtesy stage is always a good idea. BUT, also include that if the first guy is pre-staged, the second guy needs to pre-stage in a reasonable amount of time. I have seen this "burn down" at a few races and it just ticks every body off but the guy doing it.

When I first started racing I never could understand the courtesy staging deal Do your burnout,get set,then you have to wait for the other guy to get his poop in a group I run an alternator and a good cooling system so I can wait an hour for the other guy to think about what he's going to do to beat me. When I was asked by the starter to back out of the beams and wait for the other guy I quit turning both bulbs on
I don't understand what takes so long for some guys to stage maybe someone can enlighten me

Gus

It is not for people to take their time to stage. It is because some people rush up there and and put both lights on to rush the other guy. I think it is good to have courtesy staging. If you can wait a hour as you say for the other guy why are you trying to rush somebody to stage up.

Tell the tower to set the system just like Super Street except with 11.50 index. It will take care of courtesy stage, Autostart, No deep stage, etc. Wish I had a car running so I could come play. If anybody needs a driver, I'm 175 lbs with some footbraking Super Street/Hot Rod 10.90 experience. I definitely got schooled...lol

Well, I can tell you that if you were double bulbing guys, THAT is probably the reason you found yourself waiting. It only stands to reason that if you rush an opponent, he's likely gonna go out of his way to make you wait. I can only speak for myself, but I always assume that if someone lights both bulbs one after the other before the opponent pre-stages, they either don't understand what it is they're doing, or they do understand and are knowingly giving a middle finger to the guy in the other lane.

Sounds like a lot of fun to me. I think I can dial my car in pretty good to run the 11.50. The footbraking on a pro tree for the driver is not going to me as easy..lol