MP HEAD ID

I purchased a set of MP cast iron heads #576 or 578 too many years ago to remember what the scoop was on them. They came w/ a 2.02 intake, pocket ported intake runner and fully ported exhaust runner. Getting ready to assemble, and I discovered that the rocker arm pedestals are taller than stock and that they were drilled and tapped for 3/8 hold down bolts. I think that these heads were cast with W-2 specs??? Does anyone know what are the dimensions for cutting down the pedestals? Are they to be cut for W-2 pedestals? Need to know what to say to the machine shop or am I missing something? Thanks

They are probably set up for the longer valves
like the long valve W-2.. if so then the pedestal
is taller and moved over... check a long valve
in them before you do any cutting on the pedestals
I dont have my books with me to tell you the valve
length on the long valve but its in the MP books..
the 3/8 hold down bolts were stock in the performance
heads

Valve is 5.29 to 5.33!!

576 is similar to a 308 head, but without the EGR hole under the intake. Make sure you check how the intake pushrod holes were drilled. I'm pretty sure they had some set up for T/A or W-2 rockers.

Any part numbers left on the boxes, if you still have the boxes?

"EGR hole under the intake" ??

I'm not following you there.

Under the exhaust ports. Fingers were typing faster than the brain was working! Was thinking about the "intake" pushrod holes.

Aaaaahhhhh....... The AIR injection holes under the exhaust

I knew it couldn't be hard to figure out even though I was getting it wrong! lol All I ever did was plug them regardless of what they were for.

Yeah those air injection holes were for emissions..
they pumped fresh air into them so it would pass
emissions

Is there any easy way to calculate how much grinding of the pedestals for aftermarket(W2)rocker stands? This is going beyond my comfort level and I would like to have some info when I call the machine shop. Thanks

I dont know if you posted a pic of your current head here, but if they have std. rocker stands, use std rockers or are your heads already cut?

Stands are taller than stock, flat surface and have been drilled and tapped for 3/8" hold down bolts.

Depending on rocker arm manufacture....some times they have specs for stand height. I know T&D have instructions with their sets that show how to measure for correct stand height. Go to their web site and look under w-2. I believe it is based off of stem height.

There is a guy on here that does rocker arm
work.. sets up the rockers for proper geometry..
his handle is something like G3.. others on here
have used him.. maybe they will chime in

Mr.P Body, your thinking of B3RE.

So is the problem that you put standard length valves and they take long valves so you are trying to modify the stands to stock. If you have not bought valves I would go long valve and save the machining.

This is a complete head package from MP. No paperwork about valve length, taller rocker stands, etc.I just bought them last of stock SB heads. Put them on the shelf w/o opening the box. Thought that I had all the parts to assemble a complete motor and this is my only stumbling block.As soon as I get my spring compressor back, I'll measure the intakes.

Whats the P/N on them... some one should be
able to tell you if its a long valve head..
I dont have my books with me so I cant help
you there... I have 2 sets of econo W-2s at
home.. one set of each.. long valve and standard
and they have different stand heights... but with
the econo heads they have the cradle cut in the
stands for the shafts.. racing version is flat..
they did build a few versions of the race heads
that had different stand heights.. one version the
stands are basically dont there.. just flat and it
uses a tall alum stand.. then some use a short stand

The casting # are really bad. Very hard to read. That's why I posted 576 or 578. I took a few pics had had one of my kids enhance the images but of no help. I'll try a strong LED light and magnifying glass. Pedestals are flat. Would some pics of the heads help or???

Not to add to the confusion but I have a set of '576' heads. Mine are 1.88 valve and the rocker stands are stock configuration with 5/16" rocker shaft hold down bolts. They are basically a 308 without the smog holes. I also have two sets of factory 308 heads from hydraulic roller motors, the pushrod holes are exactly the same as these.

Mopar was offering ported versions of these back then. They were calling them high swirl. I looked in my small bock engine book which was from the late 90s. I believe they used the 576 casting but sold them as a package under a different part number with various levels of porting, stiffer valve springs, etc.

Also looked in my 1998 MP catalog and that's even more confusing with all the different part numbers, nothing resembles exactly what you have.

Plus, I definitely don't see anything that mentions modified rocker stands.

Post up a few pics of those heads

Casting #


Chamber


1.88" intake valve


Exhaust ports, no smog hole


Intake ports


Rocker shaft stands


Hydraulic roller cam pushrod holes


These valve tips are wasted. The wear mark is way off towards the exhaust side and there is a sharp edge on the tip face.

Having problem downloading pic. Have these specs-Valve length 5.0",top of pedestal pad to deck is 4.060", intake pushrod holes are stock LA casting # 4772576.

Those heads have the cradle for the shafts..
from what I see they are just a stock style
head.. I think with a swirl chamber... if
they have 3/8 hold down bolts some one tapped
them for the bolts

I built a few sb oval track motors for the local dodge dealer around 92-94.
For one of the builds we used the MP high performance/high swirl bare heads, and at that time what we got was just a pair of 308 castings. They were cheaper to buy through MP than through the parts dept as a replacement part at the time.

Anyway, I do all the same prep we did to all the other heads we were using, which were just various used OE 360 castings, and we discovered after these were done and installed on the block that that rocker stands were machined too close to the valves.
We were using Norris stainless rockers, and with these heads the rocker body wouldn't fit between the shaft and retainer.
Pulled a couple springs/retainers, and the rollers were basically hanging off the edge of the valves.
We had the stands cut off, and some new stands fabbed up that relocated the shafts back to the correct position.

I find it hard to believe the set we had were the only ones made like that(especially knowing how much variation I've seen in how stage 6's are machined).

Sounds to me like if you're intent on using those heads, they're likely going to need to make a trip somewhere to have some stands made to get the rocker geometry sorted out.
I wouldn't count on being able to just buy some off the shelf parts to get it done.

If the images are to large to upload e mail them to your self, it should give you the option for small, medium, large or original size IIRC. I always choose medium and they load fine.

Would the fact that these heads were used on hydraulic roller motors have something to do with that? Could the roller lifters change the geometry enough to cause the alignment issues here?

Or was it just poor QC?

That set of 308's were just made wrong.
No rockers had the correct contact pattern..... Not even stock ones.

I'm sure the poster above with the 576's that have the tops of valves all messed up has a set of heads with a similar problem, but maybe just to a lesser degree.

If the OP sent his heads to B3, I'm sure he'd be able to make some stands and supply a set of rockers that would work.

They could do it at T&D as well, although the price for them to do it may not be all that friendly.

These are the pics that I have of the heads in question.

4.050" is the spec given in the old MP engine book to make it so you can use w2 rocker stands on std heads.
Looks like that's what was done to those heads.

It appears they milled the valve cover rail as well.

"In theory", you would need the w2 rocker stands(P5249049)and offset shafts(P4120589) to fit those heads, if they have the std length w2 valves.

With the big pushrod holes and small pinch (port), to me they look like class racer type head where they want a good valve train.

I may of missed it in the reading, but are they open or closed chambers.

So what were the pics of the other head that
has the cradle for the shafts... as said by
Fast.. these may have been cut for the W-2
shafts and stands (the short ones) and off set
shafts

Those were mine, Mr. P, not the O/P. I posted them up just for comparison since he was unsure of what he has. Clearly someone put some work into his heads for whatever reason, hence the confusion.

Originally, these 576's were OTC replacements for stock-type heads. They were available around 20 years ago and only for a short time before the Magnum stuff took over. It does seem a little peculiar that someone would go through the trouble they did with these things, especially if they were for some type of limited class racing.

Mine are essentially the original configuration of what he has. The caveat here is that Mopar DID offer ported versions of these heads with 2.02" intake valves (as opposed to 1.88" like mine). However nothing in their nomenclature or descriptions says anything about milled rocker shaft stands.

Hopefully that all makes sense...

Those were not my pics. That's why I stated "these are pics of the heads in question". The RED HEADS are not mine.

In that pic with the caliper measuring the height, it looks to be 4.105", not 4.060".

I checked a stock 596 head I have here, and it's 4.110".

If yours is really 4.105", then they're likely going to need to be milled down more to facilitate the use of bolt on stands.

Ultimately, it's likely going to be cheaper to just have someone fab up some on-center stands so you can use std rocker shafts and rockers.

The w2 offset shafts are $150 each, and the stands are another $150.

By having the pedestals modified in this manner, it looks like the cost of the rocker gear will be higher than it really needs to be.

Yeah I got lost with those other pics.. because
you said yours had milled flat stands and the other
pics clearly had the cradles... thanks guys for clearing
that up for me.. myself I would get the short stands
and start working from there... test for the geometry
then if needed mill the stands a small amount and check
them again

I would no way dump all that money in a set of heads that at best go what, like 190cfm. My

Save them for a conversation piece. Other then that, don't bother with them.

With a good valve job and "decent" bowl work they should flow 230-240....... And he already owns them.

With some proper on-center bolt on stands they would be able to use normal rocker gear.

Still worth using IMO.

To get an idea of just where I was with those things, I'd mock them up with some shafts sitting on top of the Indy rocker shaft clamps, and see where something like a Comp Pro- Magnum rocker sits on the valve.

ok put a 1000$ in them .....just saying

I don't see where I said anything about spending $1000..... "On the heads".

In the pics, they appear to be brand new ported heads.

Even if he had to buy the w2 stands and shafts to make them work, that's $450 to be able to use the brand new heads he already owns.

You have to buy rockers to run any head, so the only added expense these heads would incur is for whatever parts are required to be able to put the rockers on.

I don't see how these heads could be duplicated(recon castings, valve job, porting, milling, assy) by using some other castings thàt still have the OE pedestals for what a set of stands and shafts cost........ But what do I know.

I just wish that people commenting on a post please read the original post and any additions to that post. So, for the record, factory bowl port on the intake and full port on the exhaust side, 3 angle valve job(competition quality) all for the price of $275.00 delivered.All this commentary about how much it is going to cost and not a good deal....tell me where can you get a deal like this? For all those that had questions to be answered or great answers given, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

Ok, I will lighten up, didn't see they were bowl ported, just the exhaust. It is nice that they are new/unused. But, I figured full intake port work and whatever it took modification wise to get the current pedestals in shape to be used. I figured around 800 to 1200. But if it will take substantially less then that??? then ok.

At a possible 240 CFM as Dwayne suggests is possible, that's around 500 HP on a decent setup. Even more with a Really hot/high comp setup. Don't know what your intended application is yet, or did I miss that too.

I was just commenting on the priced of shafts, rockers, blocks and machining if needed. Did not mean to cause a big stir. I have a set of the mopar "ported" assemblies they used to sell. These were the ones supposedly ported to .650 lift, mine had the cast in pedistal but your heads reminded me of them. Black paint and all. They were 2.02 and lightly smoothed over in the bowl. They replaced a set of untouched original x heads which had a .557 purple shaft and for the price I spent on the heads(1800 in the early 90's) went absolutely no faster...I even changed to a .600 lift roller eventually and went maybe .005-.010 quicker. I was just trying to provide my opinion on messing around and spending money on all that special rocker gear and you basically end up with a stock head.

You need to keep in mind that many here (not me, I will) will not even run an iron head, and some here (not me again) have pretty deep pockets and would not take the time to mess with iron heads and some just dont have the time.

For your entry price of $275 as you state, is it worth it to proceed?

I would think it depends on your needs, at the end of the day your gonna have a killer set of heads with rocker geometry thats very correct.

If your happy with the power level they will provide, then your in high cotton.

The positive is you have brand new castings, unlike these listed on ebay, used but with the stands cut, chambers work and no pics of the intake ports, used for $500.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/272538720727?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


Although I might offer the guy a bit less.

With ebay guys wanting $1500 for rebuilt J heads is crazy but some do sell.

Many here seem to strive for that 10 second street car and they are fun but alot of work and money and unless you want to claim caveman status not practical to drive every day.

Ive noticed fabo seems to embrace alot of builds of many types and many understand a good running street car can be a 12-13 second ride.

But this is a race section, and most the time only class racers or budget minded folks will run iron heads.

After over 20 years of race blocks and al heads im going backwards to oem parts that run good.

So dont feel your going backwards or on the wrong path.