Super Stock Springs

I want someone to "splain" to me the supposed magic of these springs........LOL!!! What do they do that other springs don't? Are they made of "magic" spring steel and others are just regular spring steel? Because when anybody asks about rear springs........that's all we hear is he needs Super Stock springs. I just want to know why. And because they worked for so and so is not an answer.

Monte has joined the "Winter Discussions" on Moparts!!!!

Or he has taken up drinking for amusement

The only difference I've ever seen between OEM and Superstock springs is that there are usually more leafs, which I'm guessing relates to less axle wrap up.

More leaves, shorter front segment and don't have 40 years of wear and tear on them! LOL!

Still junky "Hencho in Mexico" quality that doesn't last...

The Magic, They are Biased Stiffer on the Passenger side to help the tires keep planted. And they do help. Basic knowledge to me anyways is that the axel will try to rotate Up on the passenger side. Not hard to figure out what that will do for traction.

The Fix, a Stiffer bias of spring strength, or in the case of the SS springs, just a Extra spring, on the passenger side is what they did.


So the Simple Magic, Passenger side More Stiffer. Got To keep that axel planted on the Passenger side., That's trying to Lift Up.

I see a winter time pinion angle discussion brewing too lol.

I can remember in the eraly 1960s other brand cars with leaf springs at the drags experiencing severe wheel hop with the stock leaf springs, not so much with the stock OEM Mopar brand leaf springs Once the drag racing engineers at Chryslers drag racing program started improving the spring designs and material thicknesses used on Mopar production brand cars, they started winning at the strips with production cars

I really think Joe Dirt was a real life documentary. "How does a Positrac on a Pltmouth work? It just does..." LOL.

If I remember right, the SS springs had leafs that were .050 thicker that stock as well.

It was your idea so you have to start the thread.

Are you saying, We don't have that Figured out Yet. Thought We did.

I just wanted to see if anybody knew.............or it was just one of those "that's what you are supposed to use" situations.........LOL!!!

All I know, is that with all the recommendations on here, I wish I had a couple truck loads of the damn things........LOL!!!

Oh yeah, we just always went to the junk yard, bought extra spring packs and built our own

That plus, the shorter front segment gives the axle housing a better mechanical advantage to lift the body harder and plant the tires harder. And the stiff front segment gives it the strength to do so without losing motion to flex.

I had to make my version of stiff springs that
would launch.. I clamped a piece to 3/8" thick
steel from on the fronts on my springs on my
62 Dart... work very well.. later I changed it
to spring steel and all I had back then was truck
shocks... might have been the first slapper bars
but these were solid

back in the day, no one around here had the money for ss springs, so we hit the bone yards and got truck, station wagon springs, or extra main leaves and used a torch to cut to the length desired. we then shaped the cut ends with a grinder, added paint, then assembled the leaves we thought necessary to stiffen the front segment as was needed. no clamps on the rear segments, and however many as required on the front. i owned a yard from '73-84, so lots of springs were given away to friends for the purpose. it was up to them to remove what they wanted. may have been one of the original "pick your part" yards, but we didn't charge $2 to get in.

Monte this site is progressive compared to some other Mopar sites . Superstock springs, purple shaft cams, iron heads and dual plane intakes are all one needs. And the thing is it's all you need no matter how fast you want to go LOL. Want a 600hp 318? just get a purple shaft cam (hydraulic most of the time), a 340 intake, X heads and some cheap 1 5/8 headers and there you have it. Just add SS springs and you'll be in the 9s.

Sarcasm intended.

I put my 454/455 springs on as a 12.0 car but what has been needed along with it has been shocks[DA] would have gave me more control.

I put them on my belvedere because I was too cheap to buy mono leafs and cal-tracs... which I probably will do in a few years.

axle center pin is about one inch forward from stock, shorting front segment making it stiffer, normally you would buy new front spring hangers that have front mounting hole back one inch to center axle in wheel well, this also pushes rear hangers back one inch to increase spring wind-up and reduce spring binding. works better than stock set-up

Mr. O...


You are being severely over-accommodating...

Yeah we already had one 8 3/4-vs-9"-vs-Dana thread

Gus

LOL ok (and that's all I have to say about that! forest)

I've been running them for 25 yrs... Although we did bend one and had to add an extra leaf. The bites good with a 1.34 60 foot. But, not sure how they will do with the new motor if that ever gets straightend out. Might have to go to the mono

This is hilarious, I cant believe the amount of guys explaining leaf springs to Monte... LMFAO

All I'm going to say is that both of my cars have them and both will hook in a car wash.

That's funny, because I can hook mine in a skating rink. Gotta work on the tune up a bit because frozen water is more slick than no frozen water.

WHO'S Monte? lol

I remember now I raced monte in the 80's he had a 67 coronet with super stock springs

i feel trolled...

Hmmmm. Where were you in the 60's. Thought you knew it all?? They worked for me!

I have only ever bought 1 set of SS springs, which are currently on my Plymouth. I bought them years ago when they were a little more affordable. Any leaf spring car I build in the future will have Caltracs or something similar.

I don't think Monte said that SS springs didn't work.

He asked what was the magic in them that made them work better than stock springs.

The answer is clear. They made the front segments stiffer,by adding more springs, and/or thicker material.

all that being said my dart didnt gain a thing after minitubbing the car bigger tire, caltrac monos and adjustable shocks and sliders.mind you it was alot less violent and car left straight but barely any difference in 60ft and ET.. not worth the $$ spent might as well go ladder bar or 4link unless class rules dicatate otherwise.another note the caltrac setup was awfull for street driving very stiff and noisey compared to the SSs.

Most missed the point..............and that is, there is NOTHING special about SS springs that you can't do yourself. Need more rate or a stiffer segment? Add some leafs or half leafs. Like the short front segment? Use A-body springs. Any spring pack can be made to work just as well as any store bought SS spring pack. Spring steel is spring steel. Only two things come into play. The arch on the spring and the number of leafs or half leafs.

Been many a spring pack that wasn't a thing wrong with, thrown out behind a shop, because someone was told they needed the magic SS spring to make their car work. When all they probably needed was some clamps and maybe a leaf added

thinking about adding a leaf to my monos and clamping them

I have had a pre Mexico set on my 4spd car for 20+ years yes they work They brought my a body up real high to the point of needing a new alignment. True a set of traction bars work just as wellor make you own but you cannot always duplicate the spring rate also they were cheap as far as I was concerned and a one night change over in my garage on the floor.Don't really care who likes or dislikes them they are what works for me

This.

Monte would NEVER stir the pot so this has to be a serious question. LOL

Y

For some of us, it is the old money vs. time. It's easy to have a set delivered to your doorstep and throw them on vs. scrounging the salvage yard and spending a day rolling your own. Especially back when they were priced relatively cheap!

Like all things in life, whether it be leafs, coils or whatever, "spring steel" is not all the same alloy, not the same quality, doesn't react all the same, have the same life span, etc. I wouldn't expect 2 spring assemblies made 20 years apart in 2 different countries to be close to being the same, despite having the same part number on them. The decision to use a set of springs out of a catalog vs. having something custom done for the specific application would depend on the seriousness of the effort, tuning decisions, etc.

Yes, it was Just easier to replace your old worn out springs with the Stiffer SS springs, Then to tear them apart, go to the junkyard , tear another set apart so you can ad some extra leaves to a spring that has wear on it anyway.

Waay easer to just get a new set of the SS springs and bolt them on. For the price, it was a no brainer. Plus It was also nice to see New shiny springs mounted on the back.

The springs hold the car up and the shocks control the movement, right? Shocks FTW.

I always built my own until recently, even made the extended hangers for my Diplomat from pieces of an old mobile home frame.

A couple months ago when I was putting the Dana in I noticed that my homemade SS springs were bent up and the bushings were about shot.
After talking to a few people trying to find another decent set of A body springs to start with, I quickly realized that every thing I'm gonna find is gonna be worn out junk like I already had.

I just bought a new set of the 3800lb springs from JEGS and they were on my door step the next afternoon. Seemed kinda cheap made, but they'll work for now. May end up throwing another ply in em this spring if they start sagging much.
The car already sits lower than with my homemade ones.

Only true if you have a Four link or ladder bars.

On a Leaf spring car, the spring helps control axel wrap up, and also acts as a control arm lever. And it holds the car up as well.

Oh and the Stiffer the better on a race car, Most factory springs were intended to be soft for a cushy street car ride.

Isn't he the Yellow Bullet guy??

I found out years ago they by installing and being able to say I had REAL Super Stock springs on my car, I picked up at least 25 rear wheel horsepower. This was backed up by both track and dyno testing at 5000 foot plus altitude.

They were engineered by the old school racers like the RamChargers. They were smart guys that figured out what worked.

To a point. Spring rates are a tuning choice and do influence how the suspension reacts to input. 95, 110, and 130 springs can be adjusted to hold the rear of the car up at ride height, but the housing will react differently with each spring. Ever hear of anyone putting 6 cylinder torsion bars on the front of a drag car to increase pitch rotation?

The shocks do control the speed at which things happen.

Well after all Monte IS an engine kinda guy. He says he used to go in the junk yards years ago and get used leaf springs and make his own!! But when was the last time you heard one of his "we used to go to the junk yards and get used valve springs out and make our own by adding coils for our 3/4 race cams" stories???

Here we go, back in the day, 64 light weight Dodge Hemi S/S four speed. The car had all the FX stuff on it. After awile the owner took off the rear springs, went to an auto and these where to stiff, asked me if I wanted them, I said no since I had a home made set of ladders. Anyway to the point, these springs where much thicker leafs, maybe 7/16 with five on one side and 5 1/2 on the other. He claimed they where made for the 4speed FX cars and would not wind up, I stood on them and they didn't bulge. He threw them on the pile with the stainless steel k-frame that was cracked. I found a set awile back and I'll use them on my 64 Savoy. Just thought I'd add that to the mix

back in the day Chrysler spent a jillion bucks developing these springs--they figured it out so well that chevy guys bought them and used all but the main leaf on Chevys to keep up- I mean the big name guys!-If you spent todays equal in $$ to develop them it would be millions
When used with the right shocks they work almost beyond anything you can imagine the 002 and 003 on an A body are the best of the lot--when combined with loose front suspension and correct shocks they are stunning in what they can deliver
Now days caltracs do it too but.....never underestimate a set of these when tuned by a knowing Chrysler racer
Now...thousands of sets are used by unknowing and untrained Mopar guys --they don't do so hot we don't have Herb McCandless to call and get things straight anymore either but those of us that did have him available can rock on a pair of 002 003's

Same/same

It all depends on how fast you wanna go....
Just because SS springs work on a 10 second car, doesn't mean they will work on an 8 second car...

What pinion angle produces the highest inertial moment with a SS spring?

I know a Stock class racer who had some aftermarket (Tri-City?) SS springs on his car. He's been a record holder, class winner and near the top qualifier many times. After many years, he was talked into installing a set of Cal-Tracs & shocks. (I ended up with the SS springs.) Naturally, the car weight was adjusted accordingly. He said he gained nothing!

Basically, if the car is set up right, they won't help. (If it's not broke, don't fix it.) But the Cal-Tracs do offer a level of adjustability that's not available with the SS springs......IF NEEDED.

As for the springs working on 8 second cars, they were never "designed" for those ET's, which were well beyond a door car's capability at the time. But it wouldn't surprise me if there were some in the 9's.

(I would think that adding ladder bars & floaters doesn't count because at that point, the spring is used mainly to support the body.)

Herb showed us how he used his thumb to set pinion angle--if it fit then aok LOL I can't remember exact angle

You guys LOVE the fact that Chrysler was the best engineered stuff in its day OK--you can't make a set of these in your shop just because you saw a set one time--Mopar spent months and enough cash to burn a wet mule on these along with hundreds of hours of testing with top teams like S&M etc so you can't duplicate a set in your back yard no matter what you think
makes me laugh to hear that--you simply don't know or understand how much effort was put into these things as they HAD to run leafs per NHRA rules and they had to work to win Mopar tested on a daily / weekly basis
Herb always says they went to Milan all the time and tested with red hot winning Mopar race cars whatever part Mopar had worked on that week--headers , oil pans, carbs, etc they did A-B_A testing all day long--yea sure Herb got free parts but...he worked his azz off testing those parts before they added them and tossed last weeks stuff
Respect the effort that was put into some of the things we take for granted Sure they were running 10 second cars nobody claims these are magic for a NOS 8 second car but the average bracket racer can't do better for cheaper than these when properly set up
I went through about a dozen shock combos before hitting on the good set up in my old Duster but when I hit it they would hook that car in a plowed field

oh yea Mike Duke ran 002's and 003's on his KOS car the blue Dart that whipped folks and ah yeas it was a BB NOS car Indy test bed IIRC and it was not some ole 10 sec ride LOL

If the Chrysler racer thought the SS springs worked so well, and were better then everything else, why did they all ditch them in 1972 for ladder bars, and leaf links?

One of my happiest days at a track was my first pass on a set of ladder bars, after getting rid of the SS springs.

Super Stock spring car many many years ago. Stock crank, TRW pistons, 906 heads, and stock rods so yes they will work. Would I pick them if I was building a 9 second car from scratch again? NO!!!!!!!!!

I believe 572Shawn (Member here) has been as low as 9.50's on leafs and truck shocks.
I knew of and saw a leaf sprung RoadRunner up from Connecticut that raced quite a few times on the street and it just barely nipped a bonafide high 9 Buick Stage 2 one night. RR was all lopsided with its traditional SS passenger rear up and had the weirdest shocks, but it took my lunch money and my Boys since we were betting with that Buick.
I know, I know, That's what you get for siding with the dark side, but business is business.
Buick actually was gutted and had boxed A-arms out back and some trick coil springs and that thing would leap frog out of the hole. But on that night, that RR was sitting with him all the way till he just nipped him at the Amen corner.

7 pages worth of discussion regarding super stock springs in 2017....absolutely mind blowing

LOL

"I know someone" who has ran 8s on ss springs

I know right.......LOL!!!! I might start a Dana thread next and then an iron head one as well.......LOL!!!!

My dads Challenger was a SS/GA record holder in the 70s. Outran Paul Rossi more than once in class runoffs. We had a 9" ford, homemade spring packs and no snubber.............Oh nooooooooo............LOL!!!!

Might as well do one on mushroom cams while your at it

How about a STICK vs AUTOMATIC?
Both types have to be on SS springs of course. LOL.

I get a kick out of how some of the guys laugh at our old ways but STILL can't run as fast as we did with this junk many years ago. LOL. Many of us have moved on and go even quicker now but many run top of the line equipment and STILL go slow.

Here's the loaded answer; I'm still on springs.

Me too BUT not multi's and aren't you on Landrum's...........

Would love to see those aero tricks Mr Lee...........

You can make a car run or you can't. You can make a car work or you can't. It's about using what you have and knowing what to do with it........the whole POINT of this thread was to point out the lack of "Magic" parts. And whatever some say, there is nothing magic and or special about SS springs. They were simply configured right for the job they needed to do from the factory, so were an easy bolt on. If you KNEW what you needed and how to do it, you could achieve the same in your garage. The reason I started it? countless suspension threads here and the overwhelming "fix" is you need SS springs and rancho shocks. Like that is going to magically fix everything. Here is a thought. How about evaluate the car and the problem and figure out what the car NEEDS before throwing parts at it, because they worked great "back in the day". This isn't the 70s. Everyday streeters have more HP than most Super Stock cars back then and have more power than most early Pro Stocks had as well. Plus we know tires are tracks are WAY better. And we also know Pro Stock went away from leafs nearly immediately, yet we think that's what everybody needs now????? How does that even make a little sense.

My GTX went low 8s at 3200lbs over 20 years ago with a 446" motor. Everybody is "wow, that's fast, how did you do it". The point is DON'T do it like I did. The car could have been lots faster knowing what I know now. The point? While it worked ok then may be fine for some, there are MUCH better ways to do things NOW. Personally, if I built something now, that worked or ran as good as it did 20+ years ago, I would be seriously disappointed. If for no other reason than tracks and tires are light years better. Not to mention all the other things that are better. So even if you did build something "just like we did back in the day" it SHOULD be faster now...........most aren't. Why?

Come on Monte.. we know you cant make a set of
springs work that you build in your garage.. it
was said above it CANT be done... LOL... you have
to spend millions of bucks

If all we cared about was how to get the quickest possible ET in the most efficient and cost-effective manner, I don't think we would be messing around with Mopars that are a half-century old.

I think it's cool that some of the technology that was developed by Chrysler engineers over 50 years ago still works well up to a certain level because the physics they figured out years ago still applies.

since everyone knows the SS springs in this thread.

who can tell roughly how much arch they have? the 3400lb Bbody springs...

i see landrum has a few different springs for chryslers in 5" and 6" arch...

Mine were 6" arch

Yep. Landrum Launchers. They are snappier than any SS spring I've ever had. Only about 4 Lbs heavier for each as well.

Not for nothing, but a real street driven Duster in our club with a full interior, stereo, real pump gas drinking small block with iron RHS heads, all steel except the front bumper and double hump factory scoop scoots to the tune of high 10's on raggedy Mex-tec SS springs.
I would guess that the latest Cal-trac system is simply a stiffening ladder bar from the center line to the spring eye along with tuning thrown in. Perhaps, that is the point that the SS made back then, but with much better resistant steel material.

oh, on Aero? I don't have much in that department, other than the rear bumper air dam and though I know a thing or two about some slippery tricks but have not applied them....Yet!

My deceased Father-in-law worked the Chelsea proving grounds during the Superbird/Daytona campaign. We had a few conversations while in Detroit over the past few years.

this is them?

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/lightweig...-aluminum-wheel

Landrum has multi-leaf Chrysler leaf springs. But the "Launcher" term was used in association with Tri-City Competition springs by Greg Luneack, as noted in that Lightweight Coronet article. He's suppose to be in California now, but don't know if he still makes them. I don't believe "Tri-City Springs" in NY is related in any way.

For a beginner with the average bracket car they are a BOLT ON
So for guys that have yet to make the journey we all have and have learned to back half cars etc they are a great entry level item that is A Cheap--B--bolt on--C--they friggin work for average Bracket Joe starting out well into his learning year or so
So..do we still want new guys in the Mopar world? Or is it closed to just the "pros that Knows"?
New guys make the world go around and new guys rarely start with a pro level car or for that matter even a back half car so think about it a minute will you
We should want and do need new guys in the hobby---as per any endeavor staring out is starting out and usually means smaller $$ input until one learns what where they want to go with it all
So with that in mind PLEASE don't set a "trap" on here to laugh at and discredit things that have brought many of us a long way and things that would serve a rookie well to get started
Bret Farve does not make fun of high school quarterbacks or college ones that play with good sportsmanship and try hard
Don Garlits is the best racer I have ever known personally and he has been helpful and generous with his time every time I ever spoke with him--same with herb and many more they all understand that encouraging folks is key
Screwing around with them and LOL ing them is just sort of uncool IMO

I sit corrected locomotion.

Yes, these were created by Greg Luneack out of Cali. They are the launchers or Tri-city Springs as they are commonly known. I get mixed up with all the different names to things nowadays.LOL.

He originally was in Detroit and now out West for reasons I guess have to do with the car culture out there.
He does still make 'em, but it seems that the price drives some away. I feel that they are well worth it especially since he tailor makes them with your cars ride height and type of convertor in mind among other things.
They are pretty much ready to rock with the front clamp in a specific spot that he stresses not to move at all.
Taking into consideration that he knows/races early B's, he stressed a certain spring made in house and installed big beefy front spring eye bushings to only be tightened very little to allow swing travel.

I don't know anybody who stated SS springs were magic,

I don't find fault with guys that recommend them for certain combos.
Nor should we unintentionally imply they are stupid for doing so.

They Still have their place and are a good option for stiffening up your rear suspension, Cheap alternative too. As are Clamps and other stiffening enhances. Next step Cal tracs IMO. then ladders then 4 link, then modified extra Fancy Magical 4 link.

Not everybody needs to immediately jump to a 4 Link for goodness sakes.

Nor de we need to Jump to Blowers, nitrous or other power adders because any other way is just a Waste of time for building power.

There Are different levels of builds from mild to wild. Use what works easily and practical for you in those type Applications, no matter where you are on your type build.

Whether its Stock springs with clamps or the Highest dollar 4link latest fad at the moment. Lots of different configurations going on now with the 4 link. Or, the Magical SS springs.

Krautrock
No, believe it or not that launching photo was with a set of sagging Mancini SS springs that I threw into a corner somewhere.

I'm done...........because you and others still apparently don't even remotely get the point I was trying to make. I'd just as soon delete the whole thread and pretend it didn't happen

[quote=Monte_the whole POINT of this thread was to point out the lack of "Magic" parts. And whatever some say, there is nothing magic and or special about SS springs.



They were simply configured right for the job they needed to do from the factory, so were an easy bolt on. [/quote]



Maybe I can help you out here. Lose the words Magic, and Special Too.

Don't think anybody thinks that here. They are different, I know that and Lots of others too,

You use the words {simply configured right} that's like different to me, and they are.

But configured right, Ahh, built more stiffer and biased to Help. Tune from there, Never ever a Magical fix.

Yes the same fix can be modified at home, But sooo much more easy to just replace with the stiffer springs from the get go.

I don't think most just toss that out there as a magical fix, No, get that out of your head. Its because its a Cheap Easy Fix as Starters in a lot of Start up race car builds.

Nothing to do with any False notions of Magic or Specialness. Not in my camp anyways. Its insulting. I know, you stepped on some toes by accident. Its all good, we;all be fine.

I think the whole thread has been interesting. Good reading.

Because that's what it says to do in the 50 year old MOPAR Bible.{Direct Connection performance book}

I agree. I always raced with a 4-link or ladder Bar so my new Street car is a learning curve with leafs and a stroked big block. I don't have the money for anything fancy right now so I'm gonna have fun learning.

FWIW I called Greg Luniac back in the day to get springs --when we discussed the car and what it was doing on 002 and 003 SS's he said man I can't improve on that keep on trucking--Nice guy and if I had an early B I think I would go with his stuff
The magic was the massive amount of engineering / time/ $$$ that Chrysler put into these parts--You can't duplicate that in the back yard man and if you do then Mopar needs you in Detroit
Bolt on--Cheap--Works should have been my only post

i appreciate the thread, there is some good info in it.
also i think most guys get your point.

No they don't, not even close. You say something that is considered a bash of something sacred in the Mopar world and they go into full "defending" mode and miss the whole damn point. And I am through trying to explain what I meant.

Hey Monte - please post a picture of your dad's GA car at any NHRA National event from 1972 - 1975 - I would like to see it - and if you still have it a picture of the record from NHRA or any other sanctioning body.

That stuff is at my dads house, but I have no idea where. They moved into the current house about 25 years ago. There is boxes and boxes and boxes and boxes of stuff in their attic. Would have no clue where to even start. And when my dad quit racing......he QUIT. Never went to another drag race until the day he died. All those years I raced my GTX. He didn't see it or anything else I drove go down the racetrack one time. He displayed no trophies, no pictures, no hint that he EVER raced. It was weird.

At his funeral, I had the 3 or 4 pics I have of the car on the photo montage they show in the lobby. Several people who had known him a LONG time said "wow, never knew he raced". It's like once that part of his life was over, it was OVER and he never talked about it.

I have posted pics of the car here a couple times, but they were from local tracks. I do remember his favorite photographer was a guy who worked for ND and other rags. His name was Marty Johnson. Marty knew my dad would by every pic he took, so he took lots............but again, I have no idea where they are

Sorry to hear about your dad - What tracks did he frequent? What years did he race - I may have some info and such but I need to see the car and what years he raced. I have a lot of ND mags dating from the late 60's - if anyone can point me to any images posted in the past I sure would appreciate it.

I remember Marty Johnson. It's been a while. But I couldn't help but think of war vets who don't want to talk about their experiences. Did your dad witness anything traumatic or lose a close friend at the races?

Not that I know of Myron. I asked my mom about it one time, because I was rather hurt that he never seemed interested in MY racing career. She said that was in his past and he had put it away, because he knew that if he went with me or started reliving his own glory days, he would want to get back into it. He was an all or nothing kind of guy and knew it would cost big bucks to race like he would have wanted. He hated bracket racing, nor did he really care for the Super Stock Eliminator portion of the show. We never went to a race that didn't have class runoffs, because THAT was what he liked. Being faster than the other guy in the same class. When the tracks that we frequented dropped class racing and went to brackets, he totally quit racing at home. We went to NHRA and IHRA races for about another year to run class runoffs, but when class runoffs became very infrequent, except at places like INDY and the Dutch classic, he parked the car and it never ran again. When they moved from the city, to their house in the country, which is on 40 acres, he basically went back to his childhood. He grew up on a farm and THEIR new farm was what he enjoyed. He built a big metal building, parked all the cars in it, basically never touched them again and slowly sold them off. He got back into guns and farming and never seemed to care about cars again.

Side note.........the black 63 Max Wedge convertible, that has been in some mags the last couple years and won best of show at the Nats for two years in a row, was my dads. The guy who owns it now, bought it from my dad, had a total resto done and has been offered over a million dollars for it. It's a 1 of 3 car and only one known left to exist. Black car, black top, red/white interior, power windows and 425hp motor. 15000 orig miles. Same guy bought an all original 300K from my dad that is a one of one car. It's a 413 long ram 300. Where most had the short intake runners, this was the ONE 300 that was built with the true longer manifolds. It had less than 10,000 miles. He had a barn full of stuff like that and never touched them again after the move. The Challenger race car, he bought new in 70. Optioned as follows. Hemi Orange, R/T, vinyl top, 440 six pack, rally dash, rim blow wheel, luggage rack, tic toc tach, etc. Kept every piece he ever took off so it could be restored. Sold it to a local guy, OR GAVE it to a local guy really for..........$5000. It had 5,000 miles on the speedo. He sold all that stuff dirt cheap. Never seen anyone who was SO into cars and racing just totally turn it off like that. All I have left from the Challenger is the original intake and carbs and air cleaner. Also have center section, trans, converter and the Weiand Six Pack "tunnel ram" intake and carbs that were on it when he last raced it

I've watched several guys just up and quit and never go to the track again. Our group of about 8 guys street raced 5-7 nights a week and hit the track twice a week. We did this as a group for at least 5 years then life happened. I was the only one that stuck to it except for one Friend that stated hitting the test n tunes 3 years ago several times a year. Most of the guys still have their car stashed away in garages to this day. Don't ask my why they kept the cars as several are in rental units.

Some guys are like that. When they quit, they're done. When I stopped riding dirt bikes, I stopped all of it and sold it all. Then my brother sold all his car junk and bought a dirt bike, so I started tuning it and then his buddies bikes and next thing you know, I had 4 bikes again. Ended up with 7 before I got sick and started selling them off.

I have said this mechanical stuff is like being on heroin. It's tough to shake off.

Except for the last page of entries I just lost 10 minutes of my life I'll never get back!!!!
Thanks Monty!
BTW interesting read at the end. Thanks for sharing.
About the spring everyone forgot the MAGIC FAIRY dust that was sprinkled on them before leaving Direct Connection!
The whole spring thing is a reminder that some still don't want to accept there are better solutions out there.
Reminds me of an episode of Family Guy, when the tooth fairy get to his apartment after a night of work and rolls in all the teeth. Same with some and SS springs.
Matt

Fixed it for you Matt.

Interesting story, Monty. Cool to have had a dad like that with all that history. But sad that he got out and you all couldn't share the experience.

Funny that madscientist mentioned drugs.

I had a particularly bad season over 25 years ago and went through 3 breakages by mid-year. I was "done" for the season. After not racing for several months, I was watching American Sports Cavalcade, or one of those shows, which happen to be showing the NHRA Division 2 ET Finals in Gainesville. I qualified for it on a regular basis, many times as a track champ. They were showing all the action and the many people that I always raced against. While watching it intently, the girl I was dating was watching me and blurted out "What's the matter with you??? After not racing for months, not going to the track or working on the car, I had broken out in an obvious cold sweat while watching. I responded "Dammit, I should be there!".

Not meaning to take any addictions lightly, I developed a new respect for any type of addiction because that had to be some degree of withdrawal. Out of sight, out of mind, until I watched that show. I didn't realize my "addiction" was that bad until then. (But I always did pay the bills, etc.)

Monty, thanks for starting the thread it is good reading. Please have patience with us all.

I cannot believe I read all of this...

Damo

This thread has been like a Nitro F/C run...Shot out of the hole, gets out of shape sideways but then storms through the traps on the top end. Thanks Monty for the piece on you and your Dad.

Moving and yet strangely tranquil story.

[quote=Monte_Smith]Not that I know of Myron. I asked my mom about it one time, because I was rather hurt that he never seemed interested in MY racing career. She said that was in his past and he had put it away, because he knew that if he went with me or started reliving his own glory days, he would want to get back into it. He was an all or nothing kind of guy and knew it would cost big bucks to race like he would have wanted. He hated bracket racing, nor did he really care for the Super Stock Eliminator portion of the show. We never went to a race that didn't have class runoffs, because THAT was what he liked. Being faster than the other guy in the same class. When the tracks that we frequented dropped class racing and went to brackets, he totally quit racing at home. We went to NHRA and IHRA races for about another year to run class runoffs, but when class runoffs became very infrequent, except at places like INDY and the Dutch classic, he parked the car and it never ran again. When they moved from the city, to their house in the country, which is on 40 acres, he basically went back to his childhood. He grew up on a farm and THEIR new farm was what he enjoyed. He built a big metal building, parked all the cars in it, basically never touched them again and slowly sold them off. He got back into guns and farming and never seemed to care about cars again.

Reminds me of Days of Thunder. "When I grew up, all I wanted to do is work on race cars. Now all I want to do is make enough money to work on a farm."

We all have aspirations growing up but as we gain a little age, on some level, many of us yearn to get back to something we experienced in our past.

At least some of you guys have some family interested in what you did. In all the years, maybe 50, not a family member, I'm talking wife's side too have ever been interested in what I did let alone go to the races with me. They would all be perfect in the driverless cars. Got close with mom and dad going one time when Garlits was to be at the track to race, it rained 1/2 hour before we got there, history. Thank goodness for friends.

Yes, I know of very successful racers that when they quit they won't even go to the track, scared that the needle will hit the vein again.

So far I havent been back in 3 years.. but
I do plan on returning.. maybe this spring..
and I MIGHT put my 395ci back in the race car
to play around with... if I do get back into
it it will be just for fun and maybe chase the
ET to a point... no more 8s... maybe get the
chassis re-certed... dont know yet... ever since
my stroke the brain doesnt work the way I would
like and the reactions are all over the place
EDIT
I want to start playing with the Rampage to see
if I can get it sorted out and make it launch hard

I started going back to the track about 3 yrs ago after retiring in 1990 when life happened, wouldn't want to do it again though today, I'm a been there and done it sort of guy, different breed of racers today, fast doesn't mean what it did back in the day to me now, everything is brkts/index racing, fall asleep stuff to me apart from PM, and the top stuff is virtually non existant here...just lucky I got an old mate who's got his new Pro-Mod car out and I can hang with them for some "proper" racing, now if my 2 grown up boys were into it perhaps it would be a different story, ironic really as now I got the money to do it!!

Thread veered off course, here are some pics to bump it back toward cutting edge leaf spring technology

Essentially a 4 link with leaf springs. That will allow you to get the IC in a much better location.

That is one version of the leaf link.. the
earlier version used the stock spring location
and had the upper link attached to the frame
rail which didnt have any adjustment

So in 1970 (47 years ago) it was realized within the Mopar community that there were better options than a super stock spring? BLASPHEMY

power levels upended anything remotely 2 years old by 1970. Plus, when you are talking Pro-stock, you are in a different game. End game at every round, so the parts had to be mad advanced.

A couple of things of note in above leaf link post if you read it. It says that if the springs bend, you need a thicker leaf. Also says that first SS springs were .250 thick, which was the same as pass cars for the most part. Says that 002 and 003 springs were .290 thick to prevent bending behind eye, which is basically a C body spring. A .350 segment is also mentioned. Those are truck springs people. So for all those that think the SS spring was specially engineered with some special material and built especially for racing, well that's not exactly true. What happened is that some engineers or factory racers were SMART enough to figure out "if we use this main leaf" we can have a stiffer spring. So SS springs were configured from stuff they ALREADY had, but fit the application better. Which as I said pages ago, you COULD do yourself if you KNEW what you needed and where to get it, but was shot down with "no way you could do what the factory did in your garage" and that Mopar spent millions developing that.........yeah, whatever. Even though my dad WAS a mechanical engineer, it didn't take one to figure out if you were bending main springs, you needed a thicker one. Nor to figure out that if you needed a stiffer front segment, you added some half leafs and clamped it solid. All this stuff is suspension 1o1. Same then as now, you have to understand suspension, what it does and what you NEED it to do.

Then when the car doesn't go straight and you want to lose the one side air bag that most ran, you also deduce that if we stiffen THIS side, we don't need this bag. Racers used to have to figure things out for themselves instead of look on the internet or call somebody

I never did figure where it took a million dollars to research a spring. A type of spring that has been around for well over a century.


It goes back to racers wanting to learn, or take the easy way. The easy way is to use SS springs etc. I bought my first 4 link in 1986 and every single person I talked to except 1, told me to run a ladder bar. The 4 link is too complicated, don't need it...all the regular bullcrap.

Glad I bought the 4 link. I had to learn. And most of what I was told back then was wrong.

I seriously doubt that claim that millions worth of R&D was performed on the SS spring
Got any pictures of your car? Is it a 3.31 stroke small block?

When I built my car long ago, I insisted on using a 4 link, despite knowing next to nothing about it. But I wanted to learn how to run one. Now, the technology and theories continue to evolve as power levels go up and I continue to listen to what smart people have to say. Bracketry has changed, geometry has changed, anti-roll bars have been developed, shocks have come along way from the days of the 90/10s.
Not that I'm knocking it - I love old school - but the only reasons to use any of that old technology is for the nostalgia/old school vibe. Want to use leaf springs? Great. Use something current for a serious effort.

For your information that Duster was sold about 14 years ago--I had hurt my lower back and there was a $20K footbrake race at Piedmont Dragway in Greensboro NC --so I hired Herb Jr to drive it that week end--well...after it ran 6 laps of 6.91 in a row ( can't remember but 60 ft right around 1.42)Herb Sr and the boys approached me and said they wanted the car---Took about two minutes to hash out a deal then they paid me cash on the spot and I loaned them my trailer to get it home--they raced it for a long time after that--plain old car--simple stock 36o with X heads and a small solid, dual plane intake, etc nothing special under the hood but..car was a winner!
That puts me on a damn short list of folks that have sold a McCandless a drag car pal

Oh yea--perceptive of you-- I am building a 347 at this minute , using a Mexican 302 block --Ford guys think they are like the "230" 400 blocks we love so much so it makes selling one easy as pie

Like Rodney king said--"can't we all just get along?"

Great story about your dad Monte! I admire and respect guys like you that have cool old stories to tell from the good ole days.Those are getting harder to come by anymore. My grandpa worked for Kendall Oil for 30 years until he retired and died shortly after and the stories he told I was too young to appreciate and would love to have had him around longer to tell many more. I really think the "Magic" in the SS springs is the fact you could directly bolt them in and have success. I have the 002/003 bolted in my car with no other mods and they work! For me anyways!! Take care and keep up what you are doing!!

there's guys in the 6's on Radials with leaf springs. I'd say that's a pretty serious effort.

A few buddies and myself went to a swap meet then
had lunch(a few beers).. during our talks the SS
spring came up... WITH a snubber.. I was laughing
at my buddy and said trash the snubber.. but of
course he said it works.. then when I asked WHY it
worked.. and he said his piece.. then I asked.. isnt
that just fixing a weak spring issue.. and he had his
little spiel of why.. again.. so WHAT was it correcting
for... and finally after a good talk he FINALLY said it
was correcting a weak spring... if the SPRING is doing
its FULL job a snubber will NEVER be needed.... think
a ladder bar which is just a SOLID front section.. the
body will have a TON of lift if the shocks dont control it

I'm really surprised that no one has mentioned that the SS springs are forged in molten unicorn tears. I thought that was fairly common knowledge.

We never ever ran a snubber
When SS springs are working the car body separates from the springs and you could observer the 'rise" as distance between the body and the top of the tire grew larger upon launch
a snubber was used when they used a four speed, side stepping the clutch at some zillion RPM's and the deal was so violent that it would kick the back seat cushion out--THAT was when they thought of snubbers
SOON afterward it got better fast
BUT the snubber continued to be top seller easy to make so...duh keep on selling them not hard to understand
Do you need one?/ Heck NO!!! Do they sell??Sure! so duh......

Maybe we can get one at the junk yard while we are there gathering up parts to make our leaf springs. LOL

Keep looking for the BETTER spring parts and
FORGET the STUPID snubber... if you want a
bandaid then use the stupid snubber... it was
designed for WORN OUT SPRINGS so it could BANG
on your floor pan

No Doubt about it! The SS Springs Do have there place, Thicker/ Magical; or whatever reasoning you want to use. They Work and are cheap. They Have there Place, Period........

Understand its NOT a fix all to all cars.. if
they flex its not doing its job PROPERLY and
it might need a STIFFER front segment.. be it
a ladder bar or another style of suspension

Absolutely, Hence the Quote. {They Have there Place Period...}



Any Who disagree are subject to a attack of my 8 fingers and even maybe some thumb action.

after 14 pages, No Magic, if they worked, then great. if Not then oh well! cal tracs,ladder bars,4 link came along for a reason.always believed every car was different. et's n mph's prove this theory.
along with driving skills! its great every man has his opinion.
OK Monte how bout 4 speed vs auto thread?

Yeah, 4 speed vs auto thread but they have to be on SS springs. LOL

Is there a thread here on how fast members have gone on leaf springs?
If not, to the lead spring users, how fast have you gone on leaf springs?

They might not answer, fear of being bashed to death from the "knowledgeable"

Well I don't mind being bashed lol, my brothers demon with me driving has been 8.56 best .. Would go 1.24-1.34 60 bounced all over the place. We switched to cal tracs car runs the same maybe a bit better but it doesn't feel like I'm riding a fence post down the track now lol.. Many ways to get to Cleveland one way is no better than the other..

That's quick, do you have a photo of the Demon John?

I think so, it's on the lab top but I'm stuck at work this wonderful day lol
I can dig one up for you though bob ..

Funny how the "knowleable" ones bash something then the others jump on the bandwagon. Super Stock Springs are great for 80-90% of the "lowly" brackets racers on this forum, pay $250 for them, put them on, go racing, no brainier. The other 10% who run in the 7-8s spend the mega bucks, have someone tune it for you then have at it. Yea, you need $1000 shocks, four link and a 25.5 cent to run in high 10s-11s and 12s

A guy named Roger Laudy Who was one of the Top dogs in KOS, back in the 95, was one of the First, he was actually the second to break into the 8,s using SS leaf springs.

There were Lots of other heavy Hitters that were out there that hadn't achieved that yet. They were using 4 links and Ladders as well. But it was the lowly leaf spring that Beat All but one into the 8,s. At the time he was running 8.56 at 160 mph

There were Lots of Naysayers telling him Then, it couldn't be done, getting into the 8,s with leaf springs.

Not only did he Do it, He was one of the Firsts to do it.

Later the KOS guys were breaking into the 7,s crazy. Laudys car is still in the same configuration last I heard.

Yes I do !!

There have been a lot of threads lately about Purple shaft, iron heads, SS springs, etc. being "junk". As I pointed out in the mushroom thread, most of us don't have John Force-sized budgets. For me it's just a hobby and I want to get the most bang for my buck, even if that means I can't run 8's with license plates

Looking down your nose at others because they aren't as fast as you or use older technology in their builds is par for the course on Moparts. A few here think highly of themselves for running down the Mopar brand as well. It leaves a bad taste in lots of mouths...

They keep the magic in that giant battery in the trunk.

If one grew up in those times they would understand why that stuff worked.

Thank-You...


Above and beyond the pompous pontification of brand x...

Some of you need to get off your high and mighty soap boxes, like you are taking up for the "little" guys and others are looking down on them..........because you are full of it.

I am not sure that more than a couple people even got the POINT of the post and the rest just went into "oh my god, got to defend mode" not even knowing what it is they are even defending against. I tried to explain the point several times and most can't see the forest for the trees. NEVER, not ONE time, did I say SS springs were a bad thing, nor a bad option. I DID say they were not magic and you could accomplish the same thing yourself with some work. Some are so damn sensitive that they want to bend everything around you say, as you are Hating on Mopar, which again isn't true

The problem is, it ain't a do it yourself world. Most people want to log in, search the web, order the stuff and have it brown trucked to their door so they can bolt it on.


While I encourage as many as possible to do it yourself, most guys are not capable of doing it themselves.

There is also the herd mentality. That is, there is only one way to do it, and if you don't do it that way, it ain't done right.

You are trying to be educational. Some of us can't be educated. No offense to those of us who are uneducatable. Myself included.

Some can step on another's toes and too oblivious to know they have. Why even bring it up unless to start an argument. It's great to want to help our fellow racers, but how about wording it better next time. Go back and read what you wrote a few times, then tell me that's not arrogance, like we're too stupid to understand what you " meant", another put down.

The problem is, it ain't a do it yourself world. Most people want to log in, search the web, order the stuff and have it brown trucked to their door so they can bolt it on.


While I encourage as many as possible to do it yourself, most guys are not capable of doing it themselves.

There is also the herd mentality. That is, there is only one way to do it, and if you don't do it that way, it ain't done right.

You are trying to be educational. Some of us can't be educated. No offense to those of us who are uneducatable. Myself included. [/quote]

And that's what the whole topic is about.
IF your buying and spending 300 for SS springs then go with something better.
Set of mono's maybe?
If your rebuilding an engine and going through the hassle of Mag, shot peen and resizing with new bolts then order a better set.= Cheaper
If your a machinist and can do this with no money then go ahead and use what you got.
The whole debate was WHY was SS springs so great!
There is nothing great about them other than you can order a set and use them.
Knowing what I know now I would of Made mine. But having the convenience of the Big brown truck can help people out.
There is always going to be a better way of doing things with less.

Matt

I don't think anyone is looking down anyone's nose. There are different strokes for different folks and poor people have poor ways. There are bracket racers, heads up guys, NSS racers and street race time trial guys on here. Lots of different tastes and machines. I personally love a sleeper and steel wheels and leaf springs are part of the allusion.

Whew! what a ride this post has been --we are all combat buddies now geeez!
Herb McCandless was right up the street from us coming up--we could drop in--ask--get the right part that moment and go faster--the in stock selection was the best in the world and the advice was free--we started out with such thin budgets that we traded engine, head, suregrip, 11 in rear brake, and all type of Cores in to Herb to help pay for what we wanted
The Coolest thing was we got a story with every purchase--sometimes a lecture--sometimes our ass chewed but we always went faster and always learned something
Thing is I remember Herb talking about SS springs as he sold us a pair or 6 --he almost could not believe how much effort Mopar put into developing them--testing was intense and they were tested by the Cream of the Crop of Mopar factory racers before ever being sold--
SO..to think that you can stack a few junkyard leafs to "look" like SS springs seems like the answer is WHY?? we used them because they were CHEAP and worked --I was poor but not so poor I had to roll my on--and..when I thought I was that smart I tried--Guess what? tossed them after a while got some real ones and never looked back
That's it , that is all I was saying
Let's get back to sharing what we have learned and helping one another
and come out of this on a positive note
What do ya say ya in or ya out?

No one is looking down their nose at anyone..
and no one degraded any one for using them..
so if they work for you fine.. if they didnt
then you need something different.. pretty simple
and yes some of us did make our own junk to make
things work.. everything doesnt have to come off
the brown truck

Super Stock springs were the hot deal back in the day and yes will still work today. If I were working under a tight budget and putting a car together today I still wouldn't use them. I'd take the money they cost and buy rod ends, bushings and build a set of cal trac copies and use my word out factory leaf springs. I never liked that mile high in the a$$ look.

Well.....Monty certainly knows how to give a thread bump that's for sure.

It is how they look launching not how they look in the pits

So you think they launch better than Cal-Tracs?

Precisely.

But hey, we're told that it is not like that so we should ignore the facts (there's that pesky word again!)and be content.

You two can look at it however you want, makes ZERO difference to me. It wasn't intended to slight anyone, throw shade at anyone, nor was anyone singled out to take it personally. But YOU want to feel slighted, singled out, read things in that weren't there, or not like how it was worded, you go right ahead. That's on you, not me.

It doesn't BOTHER me one damn bit. But I can tell you that if you think there are just TWO of us that have that perception, then you are sadly mistaken.

I am seriously confused about what your issue is here. On the first page you said they were Mexican junk. In another thread, you said your SS springs bent quickly and you were going to Cal Tracks. Then later in this thread, you said it was money vs time and they were easy to buy and throw on because they worked......yet you called them junk and said yours bent? Yet somehow you are upset because I am apparently downing SS springs and Mopar in general............hmmm, guess I am having trouble following along. So how was it exactly I supposedly stepped on your toes, when it seems you agreed

You also incorrectly indicated I was the same Monty that owned Yellow Bullet. He is Monty Mikho, I am Monte Smith.......there is a FACT for you

what a load of crap... no wonder fewer and fewer member come back here get off your keyboards and go get your life in order geesh.

I thought everyone knew SATAN owned YB. Until he sold out to some Canadian Devils or something like that.

We're all on eggshells when it comes to this and our Parents secret Beef stew recipe. This coming to you from non other than Chef-Boy-R-Lee. LOL.

In opening, My waiver starts with myself and I being courageously funny to try and view both sides of this spiked fence. Some key words and or phrases are capitalized to protect the not-so innocent.

Here goes:
I bet the same can be said of why A GOOD AMOUNT of other makes out there are running on lap topped electronic injected units and twin hairdryers or single Saxophones while a good amount,BUT NOT ALL Mopars are still on manifold mounted Carburetors tweaked by pocket screw drivers and drill bits. Some higher level things are just simpler, more advanced and precise for THOSE IN LINE FOR IT with a pinch of mystery whether they go fast or not.
Some other DONE THAT, BEEN THERE things and springs are just simpler, cheaper and nostalgic for those in line for it with a pinch of mystery whether they go fast or not. I mean, carbs are still being figured out! correct? ThumperD and others that he gives credit to have proven that with good results and the same could be said about springs coming around as well especially with alternative engineering methods the likes of Cal-tracs, Launchers, assassin bars or back door blacksmithing.
At the end or beginning, we're all trying to pass a bill for cars that NEVER are QUITE FINISHED. If they were finished, so would we.

In all seriousness, I understood Monte's question from a few points and correct me if I'm wrong, In getting into the molecules and beliefs of these leafs, he probably just wanted to kick the can down the road a little bit to see what the consensus among racers are still doing about this crucial component of performance with maybe hoping that SOME WOULD EXPERIMENT with alternatives like he did or just graduate to higher levels through this type of discourse. or........... MAYBE he's mystified on the mystery and just wanted to break into the safe of the "DIRECT CONNECTION" safe haven and get down to the nuts (us) and bolts of these parts.

So here's my card. I'm a traditionalist..... and because of that maybe I'm a candidate for self inflicted struggle to get where I supposedly think I should be, but for many reasons that are eggshell bombshells, I am happy right where I'm at with Leafs and that is all that matters as well as for others that think the same or are JUST STARTING with their cars.

In short, I value Monte's and others on here with their word and sometimes hook and sinker threads because that is what stirs the moving parts within Moparts. He has a lot of valuable information based on the fast cars he's run through the years and the fast crowd that he runs with.


Monte, sorry I added some spices to your recipe for the BEEF stew. LOL.

Amen.

mopar themselves say that if you're using ss springs, you should NOT be using the adjustable snubber. i found out the hard way (using both) why (in my case, anyway). i managed to rattle the tires so bad one day, it about ripped the car to pieces, and that was on drag radials!! i took the snubber off, and it never did it again. i had the complete package: 002 and 003 springs, and the gawdawful super stock shocks. WAY too much separation at launch. i put some rancho 9000's on there, and it will hook in an oily car wash, with almost no burnout. do i like ss springs? meh, i HATE the "stink bug" rake, and the lean to the left. HATE. over the decades, i've modified, and played with these things, to the point where they work great, and the car sits nice and low. i tried removing some of the leaves. you name it. i came to the realization that they are (imho) optimized for a certain power level, and if you don't have enough power (traction and torque, to load the springs properly), they don't work so good. of course, this also means they can be over powered...

This is the point EXACTLY. If you just keep regurgitating the same old info, nothing changes. Some are reluctant to post opposing views, because if it seems you are saying some of the "sacred old stuff" really isn't that great, you get unloaded on with both barrels. Old school works for many people and if that's what they want, that's fine. But about anything you did back in the 60s, 70s, 80s, even 90s, there ARE better ways to do it now. Nobody is saying the old ways won't and didn't work, but not EVERYONE wants to do it that way. If you can't have a reasonable discussion of the merits and the downfalls, because the "purists" get upset, how will anybody learn anything new.

Some want to run that old Mushroom cam they have on the shelf.....that's fine. But why does it make you mad when somebody else says there are things that work better and that's old technology? We all KNOW it's true.

I have also not seen anyone running down cast iron heads here either. But the point has been made several times, that if much cash outlay is involved in getting the iron heads ready to go, aluminum heads end up being a cheaper and better alternative. It's true and we all know it's true. Same goes for rescuing those old rods with a recon and new bolts. New rods is usually cheaper

I see the same things in the gun world, where I also participate on a fairly large level. In that area, I am strictly a traditionalist. Meaning I like pretty wood stocked rifles with nice shiny blued actions. I am a minority, as most prefer the black plastic, light weight, satin finish or stainless rifles now. I hate that look, but don't bemoan anyone for making that choice. They are cheaper and shoot great, that I can not deny. Same way on pistols. Plastic and polymer striker fired pistols, I don't own one and won't. Give me a steel auto with an exposed hammer, or a shiny revolver any day. But again I don't begrudge the new trends, because they are fine guns......I just don't like them.

So while many are happy with "old school" here........that's fine, it works for you. Be good with your choice. You don't have to defend your position, but you also shouldn't get mad when it is pointed out there are better, more modern ways to skin the cat. In the end, either way the cat is dead, but one way might be easier.......LOL!!!

Thou shalt not blaspheme our Ma in Auburn Hills lest the faithful smite you down.

Of course we all KNOW there are more modern setups. No argument there.

The only thing that "makes me mad" is when someone starts running down any aspect of a build, pointing out that they should have done it a different "better" way and only that way.

With no apparent appreciation for WHY any choice was made, which often includes cost. (I'm talking about any project on here, not mine in particular). It's their car and their budget... what's the point in being negative (unless it just won't work, period).

Even then it's still possible to be helpful, without coming off as judgmental or overly critical.

I need a set of springs for my car.
It weighs 3800 lbs. I have a 600ish hp motor, 4 speed, and am putting a Dana in it, figured now is as good a time as any to upgrade my springs.
It is a street car with a few times a year to the strip.

I was going to go with these XHD
http://www.manciniracing.com/moxbbosetlri.html

After reading this thread, I am considering Calvert split monos
http://www.manciniracing.com/camolespset1.html

It concerns me they are a one size fits all though. Any thoughts how it would handle a car at the heavier end of the field?

Hey, this is a thread about hurt feelings, you can't discuss actual springs in here

I've always been an A-body guy so I can't give specifics. But it would seem logical that a heavier car using the same spring would sit lower and be sprung more softly?

Being your a street car and will hardly ever
see the track and your going to be on a street
tire I would really look at XHD springs and maybe the
caltracs but I would put the springs on first
then think about the caltracs.. remember if
you get decent springs you need decent shocks
to control the rear end... just something to
think about

The most important part of this sport is to have a good time. For most that means going to the track with Friends and running anything from 13-8 second passes and coming home with the car in one piece. Some get a natural high just from making passes, some by winning, and some by going fast. Lets all head into 2017 with that in mind and race within YOUR budget and with YOUR goals in mind. Lets have FUN!!!!!!!!!!!

It Shall be Life!!!!!!!!


.

Thanks for the response guys.
]
I called these guys today, was looking at this spring with the Spring Rate = 130

http://www.generalspringkc.com/product_p/33-907.htm

I am worried about wrapping up my springs. I know they are old, but after installing the new engine, the u joint straps ripped out, it didn't take much.

I don't understand if spring rate translates into resistance to axle wrap.

The XHD springs don't list their spring rate.Anyone know about where they are rated?

Am I worrying too much? I just want to be able to launch it without too much rotation.

What about clamping the front segments?

If you tore a strap off the U-joint the pinion
rolled up too far and bound the joint and tore
the strap off.. I've been using the stock straps
for 12 years on my car.. if you look at where the
joint sits in the yoke you will see that the caps
set in OVER half way.. this puts all the load on
the yoke and not the straps.. they just hold the
joint into the yoke.. as to spring rate and pinion
roll up.. the rate doesnt have anything to do with
it.. the front segment is what controls that.. the
rear of the spring is the rate part of it

My experience with the quality MP springs De Mexico.

Round 1 was brand new MP XHD springs. It might be correct OEM ride height but to me the rear of the car was waaay too low.
Didn't even drive the car, removed the springs and returned them to my local Summit Racing.



Round 2 was MP's Super Stock springs.
Per suggestions I went with 2 driver's side SS springs from an A body for softer ride and lower ride height.
I was very happy with initial results but 2 years later with very low miles the springs have flattened and sagged about 2" to the point the rear shacklers are tilting towards the rear of the car.
The final straw was after doing some spirited driving and power shifts with the 440 4 speed the rear spring segments decided to open up and introduce themselves to my rear valance, both sides! From the best I can determine the flattening of the springs has shifted the rear section of them too close to the rear valance.

Round 3 will not include any springs from MP

The old U Joint makers used to have a film out back in the 60's they put a std 7 inch saw blade on the drive shaft right at the u joint--they would spin it with it straight and put a playing card to the saw blade--it sounded smooth--they would increase pinion angle little at a time and when it was past acceptable pinion angle you could actually HEAR the saw noise starting and stopping proving what was actually happening at the u joint
a real eye opener!!
Those engineers were pretty smart guys

Wow, that is beyond bad.

aren't the rear shackles supposed to point to the rear of the car??

I could listen to Monte or these guys for hours

You guys were always generous with sharing info.Thanks

Yes they are(the lower part to the rear)

Got two reputable leaf-spring outfits in these parts...


They've both been around many years...

Dealt with 'em both many times...


They can tell you all about proper function...

And imported 'steel'...

I'm of the opinion the "newer" springs are junk. I have both new and old, the newer are 1/4 inch thick and the older are much thicker. Contact a spring maker and have them build each leaf .350 -.375 thick I don't think you'll wrap those up (doubt you'll need more than four-five leafs). Don't remove the clamps-strap on the rear segment of the spring, then they won't separate and catch the valance. Also overlooked, the back segment has as much to do with how the spring works as the front. Be prepared to ride like a tank.