w2 econo headers, I am lost here

So I know there are W2 econo heads and W2 race heads. I have the econo versions with the smaller 3.90" bolt spacing for my 70 challenger. What I can't figure out is if the w2 "econo" bolt spacing the same as an LA, or is it it's own pattern all together?

Here is the problem I am having. I need a 1 7/8ths primary tube header. I saw that TTI made one but it was for the wider w2 "race" bolt spread only. There is a chance I can use them with adapter plates, but I may have to cut/modify the tubes a on the driver's side to clear the power steering box and then it just becomes a big PITA to buy them bare, modify them and then ship them out for coating.

Then I noticed that TTI also makes a 1 7/8ths LA style header. Why wouldn't these fit the W2 econo heads? I figured the factory LA head had the same narrow bolt spacing but maybe I'm wrong?

It is my understanding that with a 1 7/8th tube, the tubes are going to be over the bolt holes of the two center exhaust ports with the narrow bolt spacing of the econo head, but that doesn't seem like the end of the world from a header design standpoint. Plenty of other motors have header like this that just come with dented or stepped primary tubes.

What do you guys suggest? I was actually just thinking of building my own out of T304 stainless but I really want to get this project done before the cold weather comes and that would definitely extend the timeline some lol.

Go buy you an LA exhaust gasket and see how it sits on the ports and bolt pattern. I think an LA header will work on the econo pattern.

The exhaust pattern may fit but the ports are different shape. I have the same deal but I have old race W2s. I have heard you can grind the headers to make them match the port. I never attempted such nonsense myself. Just got TTI W2 headers for the LA pattern. Maybe you could call them and see if they'll put an LA style flange on their 1 7/8 headers for you? I have the 1 3/4 step headers myself.
If they agree to do so let us know. I'd be interested in a set myself.

Call TTI and ask to talk to the owner, I think his name is Gary, and ask him about this They are good people and they will get you a answer

an adapter plate maybe ? years ago, i fabbed such a plate for a buddy of mine, but he had a pontiac motor and wanted to use ??? headers. it was a simple thing to do. i just counter sunk the bolt holes to attach the adapter to the pontiac heads and drilled and tapped the adapters to his header bolt pattern. then matched the head ports to the header ports. he had plenty of clearance in his gto for this however. i'm guessing you may not have this luxury.

Tubular Automotive makes a W2 header with the wider bolt pattern and can be purchased with adapter plates to fit LA heads' narrow pattern.

Tubular Automotive
248 Weymouth St, Rockland, MA 02370
Phone: (781) 878-9875
Hours: Open 9AM–5PM

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Tubular-Automotive/163502187002332

Excellent pictures - for A-body. *** Inquire about E-body

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/thre...-a-body.350936/

The old exhaust dual patterned W2 used to use an adapter plate to bolt to the head and then the header to the plate. The port match up is insanely horrible. Grinding to match has its limitations and problems. Port size dependent, how much were the ports altered and raised?

As mentioned, TTI is a good start and probably the best since asking Hooker or Hedman will get you no where I bet.

Another possible option "Center bolt holes are approximately 4.75"
Ebay LINK

Cab, I called TTI and spoke to one of their techs, not sure who it was. I asked him about using the w2 race headers and possibly filling in the inner bolt holes with weld and drilling new ones, he said the holes would end up inside the primary tube.

I also asked about shipping me a set with flange just tacked on so I could cut them off, dent the center tubes and weld my own Econo spacing flange on. He said he didn't recommend doing that and basically said it would come out terrible looking due to the amount of dent needed to fit them in a econo flange. Basically the only option the tech gave me is adapter plates. I don't have the heads with me here (at the machine shop) but they have been worked a bit . Without looking at them myself though, the TTI tech gave me the impression that the bolt spacing is such that it would pretty much be impossible to use any decent size tube on them.

I'd really rather not use adapter plates. Kind of a PITA to install/take off, another point of potential leak, great possibility of potential fitment issues with spacing the tubes out and possible flow issues. Just seems like a lot of downsides and not the 'right' way to do it.

I am really considering just asking TTI again to ship me the headers with the flange just tacked on. I am sure I can work something up with either step ups or dented primary tubes on the center ports. Only issue is at that point, doing that much custom work, I feel like I should just use my hooker super comps as a template to weld up my own out of T304 stainless. I was really hoping to just buy something off the shelf and be done.

I am going to contact tubular automotive and see what they say, thanks for the link Duster!

I have Tubular automotive headers on my Dart. I dont think they make headers for an E body but call and find out. I have two sets of plates one for standard heads and the ones on the car for W2 heads I have them on my Indy 360-1 heads. If you want to borrow the standard head plates for fitment Let me know they are just sitting in a box. One thing about Tubulars mobody else has gaskets that fit their headers you have to get them from them. My headers are old and worn out I am debating between another set of Tubulars or TTIs.

Just use adapter plates. It ain't that hard. You can make them yourself with some 3/8 aluminum plate, a gasket and a countersink.

Bolt the to the head with a THIN coat of orange silicon and be done with it.

Thousands of engines have been used with adapter plates.

Heres a photo that comfirms what you suspected that the 1-7/8th tube TTI's extend over the smaller (stock/W2 econo) center tube bolt holes. I used the caliper to measure the outside width of my inner 1-7/8 TTI header tubes and when compared to the econo bolt pattern it appears the tubes might half cover the bolt holes

Also a couple of shots with some W2 exhaust gaskets over some header gaskets and vice versa to help you determine how much overlap there is

Here is a W2 adapter with the smaller W2 econo/stock LA bolt pattern compared to a gasket with the dual pattern that shows the tapered adapter hole gets cozy near the inner holes but you should be able to adapt the larger pattern with an adapter (maybe ask TTI if they can sell you an econo header flange?)

Also notice how the adapter is beveled to help access the spark plugs. I have to use a narrower than stock plug on my car due to my header flanges

Also here is a shot and the red shows the standard header gasket port to W2 overlap

Thanks Ucudant! I just saw your PM, thanks a lot for those pics!

Wow, looking at the W2's overlap, they really don't leave a lot of room there for anything bigger than 1 5/8ths.

I am still on the fence about what to do. If I run a 1 7/8ths LA or W2 Race header with adapter plates for the econo, there is a good chance I will have to modify them to clear the power steering box, which means I will have to buy them uncoated and then have them coated (unless a small dent would be enough). That is going to be a major PITA with shipping/coating costs and all.

On the other hand, if I modify a set of 1 7/8ths TTI W2 or LA headers to use a W2 econo flange, I'll run into the same issue of having to send them out for coating.

What I'd REALLY like is a set of stainless 1 7/8ths headers for an LA or W2 race headed E body. This way if I need to modify them either for the P/S box while using adapter plates or for the flange to put my own econo flanges on them, I won't have to worry about any recoating. Just weld and be done with it.

Anybody know if any companies that make stainless headers for these cars?

Only places I know of are very big money. Headers are a PITA.

I've made 2 sets. After the first set I said NEVER AGAIN.


Yep, I'm a slow learner.

You're welcome

This set isn't pretty and requires the adapter plates I showed in an earlier post but I think they're supposed to be for an A body. My buddy has them now but has no plans to use them..... I'm unsure of the size but can check if you might be interested.

FYI I'm sor t of interested in finding a dual plane W2 intake

TTi makes a 1-5/8" to 1-3/4" W2 step header that fits PS http://ttiexhaust.com/Category-ClassicHeaders/340W2/TTi340W2.htm

I make headers all the time(thats part of what
I did at Chrysler)... these are 1 7/8" econo W-2
headers I made for my Rampage... I did the flanges
also... this is 3.5" collectors
EDIT
the flanges started out as 1 piece, that makes
it easier to set it up and for welding then I
cut them down to what you see.. they are also
3/8 thick so no worping

Guys, first I just want to say thanks for all the replies and advice. Things took a weird turn yesterday when I was finally able to get out to the machine shop and check on the heads....

I had a header gasket with the multiple bolt pattern holes and I matched up the holes with my LA hooker super comps and marked them.

The holes lined up exactly with my W2 heads. I wasn't aware that they made W2 heads with an LA bolt pattern? I guess I'll just be going with a set of TTI 1 7/8ths LA headers then, unless there is something I am missing here like spark plug clearance? It looked to me like with the angle plugs I shouldn't have any issues with clearing the tubes.

On those headers I built I had to bevel the
surface of flange to clear the plug socket..
but that is with 3/8" flanges... with the LA
gasket did you end up with the hole that are
close to the port.. I always use the holes
that are out farther so port work doesnt get
into the holes that I mount with.. I am just
into the close holes with porting

Yes thats the standard LA pattern, I was using the common holes to align the gaskets in my photo's....thats what I was showing you.


The plugs clear the tubes. Mr P body stated when using the wider center tube mounting pattern and a thicker flange it will interfere with the spark plug socket, I run a narrower bodied spark plug on mine so I use a narrower socketand it fits.

get a set of TTI race head 1 7/8 headers,uncoated, make an adaptor plate to convert your econo heads to race head spacing, make it the same thickness as the TTI flanges,carefully cut the flange off the TTI headers along the outside of the flange, remove the tubing thats left in the flanges and then slide the cleaned up flange over the primary tubes, just the same as TTI build them and weld them on, that way you wont have chassis/steering box issues as technically the headers have not moved in relation to the engine, once done send them for coating and your done

UCUDANT, now I see what you were saying. Until I saw my own heads at the machine shop it didn't sink in lol

Honestly, how much do you guys think the port mis-match will hurt power if I just ran an LA header on the econo ports? I was looking at the econo gaskets vs my LA super comps and it really only looked like it covered the port up on a few corners, and it appeared like there was a enough meat on the header flange in those areas to open it up a little with a grinder. These were on my 1 3/4's primary tube super comps mind you, so a 1 7/8th LA header may cover less?. The exhaust ports on these econo heads aren't that big at all.

If that doesn't work, I think I am going to cut off the flange on the LA 1 7/8th headers and weld econo flanges on. Since it seems like such a close match, it shouldn't be too hard to get the pipes to line up. I am just hoping I don't have to go that route as by the time I get done purchasing the headers, flanges and coating I'll be about $1300 into them vs a set of bolt on coated headers from TTI for $850. I also can't get the polished ceramic coating anywhere around here which I really wanted, and shipping them somewhere else adds even more to the cost.

Dumb question, but would it be easier to sell your heads and get a different (newer?) pair with the dual pattern so your header choices would be better?