Lets Talk Break In Oil

This is the first time I have run a solid FT cam
in over 20+ years... everything has been a roller..
so my question is.. what is the best break in oil..
and I assume during break in you still add zinc additive
then use zinc in every oil change... I greased everything
with the break in grease while putting it together.. all
the lobes and lifters... I also assume you can use regular
oil with the additive after the break in
thanks
EDIT
And I did remove the inner springs

Gibbs, amsoil and Brad Penn seem to be the big three. Gibbs gets suggested a lot and I had that in the last engine for break in. I think I might try the straight 30 Amsoil break in with the 511 which will also have a solid flat tappet.

I am now gun shy about oil. I took out 2 wiped hydraulic cams out of my engines last year. One was a new comp cams and another was an older mopar purple shaft cam.

Next week I hope to fire up my new comp cams hydraulic lifer cam engine. I am going with the Driven (Joe Gibbs) break in oil and crossing my fingers. I need to ask Driven if I should add the Comp Cams additive or not.

Should extra zinc be added with the break in oil
or is there plenty of zinc in it already... I've
gone to all this work and I dont want a failure now

The local shop that I deal with for machine work switched from Brad Penn Break in oil to Lucus break in oil after they started having some issues. So far so good.

I have been told to use a zinc additive with Brad Penn break in. I'm really leaning towards the Amsoil break in this time.

So far... it looks like there is no consistency in
any of this

Rotella T + STP worked well for my original break in with a moderately aggressive FT. The Rotella has a decent zinc level and the STP adds a bit more. On freshen, Muscle Motors broke it in on Rotella T (their choice) FWIW. After break in and dyno I switched to 15W50 (from memory) Mobile 1 which has high zinc.

If I wanted a dedicated break in oil I would probably use Comp Cams stuff or the oil Hughes sells. Standard car oil + ZDDP should be OK also... but I prefer a mix formulated to work together.

I just broke in my 3rd FT solid cam and use Driven break in oil! I called the oil manufacture and they said not to use any other Zinc product, the break in oil has the exact levels needed for protection. I did use EDM lifters this time and have had no issues!

Gibbs for break in and Valvoline VR1Racing oil after that

I don't have a flat tapped but used Lucas 30wt. Got a 2.5 gallon jug of it. Seemed like the rings seated on the first drive.

i broke my new engine in on driven oil and decided to keep running it. no additives needed. its a little more money but stops me from having to buy the additive so it all works out in the wash.

looks like there is some consistency with joe gibbs. there is a machine/engine builder in Saginaw that has a dyno. He will not run your engine on it for break in unless it has joe Gibbs oil in it. Hes had that good of luck with it. I had joe Gibbs in my last engine that expired on the dyno, but it was no fault on the oil. If fact it probably made it live alittle longer than it should have. I have never had a failure I could blame on the oil. I broke in a few on rotela and never had a cam fail believe it or not.

This is just a cam change... engine has about 850
miles on it but the tight LSA didnt like the EFI
or should I say it the other way around

Redline makes a good additive for regular oil. I used it with Delo 400 in my elcamino

Rotelła T plus Lucas Break In zinc additive part number 10063 here for break in and every oil change. 2 motors (one solid flat tappet the other roller) and a few hundred passes and no oil related issues.

Good luck with your build MR_P_BODY!

hi


amsoil and valvoline vr-1


never a problem!

I also use rotella t with lucas ... solid cam oval track engines... -very- aggressive profiles that were turned up to 8 k week after week. I always used low ratio [special ]break in rocker arms and a minimum amount of spring pressure to get it broken in . we never put anything but oil on the lifters so they would be free to spin. with the proper cyl wall finish , it will seat the rings in a few minutes.

OT, I would confirm the lifters are free to rotate (Hughes "thunk" test) & the usual stuff that you are aware of more than I am, mixture/timing/immediate startup/goosing the throttle.

well I will be breaking in a new cam, solid flat tappit in a new engine. my cam has been nitrided and I will be using EDM lifters. the inner springs will be removed and my spring pressure is 410# over the nose. I'm going to give the amsoil break in a try.

They spin freely since I had to ream each one to fit
and it will start with the EFI... I pre set the timing
36* before firing then check it... and I'll take it up
to 2000 rpm and move it around some.... they all slide
nicely... all at .0015 clearance
EDIT
plus these have the .012 EDM hole and light weight
lifters

I broke my solid flat tappet in with Joe Gibbs break in oil + Lucas Zinc additive. Also only on the outer valve springs of a double set. I regularly run Lucas Hot Rod 10w-30, with the same zinc additive. Change the oil once a year.

6 years, a few thousand street miles, and well over a hundred passes and I've had zero cam issues.

I broke mine in using the exact instructions Hughes sent with my cam, The instructions recommend Joe Gibbs Driven BR 10w30 or 5w30. It might not be the way everyone else does it, but its what the people who made my cam say to do and if something would of went wrong potentially it wouldn't be my fault!

Depending on the cam lube used, another thing ive seen people do it put it on the sides of the lifters where they contact the lifter bores. BIG no no alot of that stuff is to ADD friction so the lifters do not slide on the cam lobes.

Mike,
Why didn't you go with a wider LSA roller grind? I know there isn't much to choose from in the catalogs, but if I find one that suits the combination, but has a tight LSA, I'll call them and have one ground wider. Comp can usually turn one of these around in a couple weeks, and then the lobe failure worries go away. Just a thought, since you are already set up for a roller.

I used Lucas, it was more available than the Gibbs Driven. I've heard lots of good things about the Gibbs

Saturday I changed the flat tappet cam and lifters in my circle track car and did the break in procedure. Sunday I changed the filter added another quart of break in oil and we went racing. despite some valve float issues we won the feature race and it still sounds like we have all the cam lobes. I used joe Gibbs assembly grease and break in oil. Normally run Bradd Penn oil

I didnt like a few things on the Comp lifters.. the
edm hole is .026.. too big when I got warm my oil
pressure was lower than I like plus I PR oil... lots
of built in losses.. the edm hole in the Hughes is .012

This has worked well for me. All of my resto. hemi. max wedge. 440s. get this and works well. use the gibbs BR yellow lab. not the HR-2. then the Valvoline.

I have also used a lot of rotella in the past

I use the Chrysler cam lube,STP and Rotella,fire it and break in the engine.

Brad Penn break in and cam lube in my new mill. Looks like all went well

The last couple flat tappet this is what I used with great results. I don't think it would hurt to run it all the time.. maybe lose a few horsepower but sure would be good for the cam

I've been looking around what is out there local... I can get the
Lucas break in oil local... I'll look some more to see if Gibbs
is easy to get.... now ... with these break in oils do you add any
more zinc... or is too much zinc bad
thanks guys

https://rislone.com/product/3x-concentrated-engine-oil-supplement-with-zinc-treatment/

Not sure about engine break in, but I have been using it lately with each oil change. And its available locally at Advance or Oreilly

I have had excellent success with Renegade Race oil Breakin 30 wt and then their 10/30 semisynthetic. Fairly priced and their additive package does not fall out of suspension like Joe Gibbs XP1, that makes a real mess of an engine.

Max Weg

GM EOS

Gibbs BR oil has all you need, no zinc additives necessary.
Same with their regular motor oil, no additives needed. That is the beauty of it.
I have done many new engines and cams with zero trouble. Great products.

what he said

I use Comp Break-in oil on engines I do, No problems yet.

http://zddplus.com/about-us/tech-briefs/

Plenty of info to answer your questions and de-bunk all the BS on this post.

For flat tappet cam motors its Driven BR exclusively for me.

Second on the BradPenn break in oil , also use regular BradPenn in your engine , www.summitracing.com has these oils and free shipping.

Brad penn 30 WT. Break in oil and brad penn 10-30 after that.

I also run the crower light weight EDM lifters. Roughly 100 miles so far with only the outer springs. Inner springs are going on tonight and I'm gonna let her rip!

I just ordered up a case of Driven .. be here Monday

If your old enough, Arco Graphite oil is still around and in production. Its black gold.

Yeah I know of it... never used it

It looks like black ink and it goes everywhere. Ran it in a hemi MP car for three years and the motor was great. It was also like tar, that wound up everywhere and could push itself through everything. That why it lost in the consumer market. A worn gasket or seal and it be there. I was surprised to see that it is still being manufactured. All the bearing surfaces where coated with STP and the black oil was used as break in w/o any problems.

I think my oil shelf has both Brad Penn and Gibbs break-in oil. Flip a coin? Or is one really going to make a difference from the other? Oh, big block solid roller in this case.

Honestly, when I'm doing most roller motors I don't even bother with a dedicated break in oil...... But I wouldn't argue against it.
For the past several years I've been using Brad Penn 15w-40 for the roller motor testing.

For my roller engines I dont add anything special
and there is no break in.. set the timing and carb
and go beat on it.. then change the oil and filter
after the week end

Valvoline VR1 Racing oil is all I have ever used. I use it to break in my cams and use it for the life of my engines. I do add a bottle of ZINC at break in and oil changes and of course use the manufactures cam lube also at break in. But I have never wiped a cam lobe on any eng. Ron

This is the answer I got from Lake Speed at Driven wen I asked about adding break in additive to the BR40 oil:

"The BR40 does not need any extra additives, so I would not recommend using the additive with BR40. It can't help the BR40 work better. It already has the proper balance."

Thanks.... thats what I ordered

Too much ZDDP can cause corrosion inhibitors to become less effective. In general, you don't want to exceed more than 1800 ppm. This probably wouldn't be an issue for break-in, though. A while back, we tested several oils using neutron activation analysis to determine ZDDP content. We published the results, which can be downloaded here.

Here is a photo of Bullet's instructions that is with my new cam.

Thanks... thats what I expected and planned on doing

That's how I'm doing mine.4-5 Qt VR1 and a bottle of that zddp (?).

Pan holds 8, figure I will be dumpin' the stuff shortly?

Read #1 above. Shelf oils are high detergent, adding you zinc makes you feel good, but the detergents are fighting your additive, not the way to go. Buy the right oil from the start.

The pan I built holds 10 qts plus the filter and remote
lines... I only put 8 qts in it to keep it away from the crank

Specialty oils like Brad Penn and Joe Gibbs are typically lower in detergents than the run-of-the-mill stuff that you can pick up at AutoZone. While Rotella's deisel oil has high ZDDP content, it also has higher detergent concentrations than run-of-the-mill oils intended for use in gasoline engines.

FYI - for those of you running VR1, I lost 2 hydraulic cams using that oil. I have now switched to Driven.

Was never a fan of that oil myself especially the thick 20w50 stuff and just run the Valvoline 5w30 All climate or Mobile-1 and things always look great.........

Once the cam is broke in can you run normal oil with
zinc or should you stay away from high detergent

Oil studies I have read online say to stay away from high detergent and additives, they do not go well together. When a guy has a post on a wiped cam lobe, they usually reveal a shelf oil with zinc additive, not Gibbs, Brad Penn, VR1 etc.

Seems you could get a non detergent oil and add zinc. What does a bottle of zinc additive cost these days?

Many cam companies I have seen recommend not running an API labeled oil. There's plenty of Hot Rod/Z rod stuff out there decent priced. I run amsoil z rod in my 65', just changed to Gibbs in the race car.

In what 04/05' Rotella, and all diesel oils had to meet CJ4 classification and run more detergent and less sinc. They still have like 1200 ppm of zinc but all the detergents will displace some of it on the wear surface.

We have problems getting oil for old Detroits and some Cats because they can't run the new stuff meant for EGR/DPF stuff.

Zinc additive is just under $20.. but for most guys
(size of pan) they use a 1/2 bottle

No offense meant but I find it hard to believe the Valvoline VR1 oil caused you to wipe a cam. I have used Valvoline since the early 70's and have never wiped a cam. Been using the Valvoline VR1 in my sons Dart since 1997 and in my 63 since 2006 when I put it together. Ron

You can get the good old CI4 from Cat dealership.

i was starting to loose my .557 cam too after using VR1. although it took a few years. i caught it early.

I already ordered a case of Driven BR.. I figure out
what I will use after break in.. but I will be adding
zinc after

I run royal purple with the zinc in it. 15k miles, 100's of passes, no issues.

Since your local... what do they hit you per QT

I just get it from Summit, free shipping over $100, at my door the next day...I would like to support local shops, but there isn't too much out my way, and I've wasted too much gas and time driving from shop to shop looking for what I want.

https://www.summitracing.com/oh/search/p...t%20Motor%20Oil


I will try to check out that shop in Ypsi this week...need a N2O bottle filled

I noticed the companies pushing (is that too strong of a word?) their break-in oils talk about how it's supposed to improve ring seal, in addition to being a benefit to flat-tappet cam break-ins. It would be nice to know if engines run initially on this break-in stuff do actually seal up better or not.

Also, as at least on other person mentioned a) it's entirely possible to have too much zinc, and b) high-detergent oils do counteract the effects of the anti-wear additives by "scrubbing" the surfaces of the anti-wear components.

Some of the break-in oils have, IMO, too freakin' much zinc in them... strikes me that those companies' Marketing Departments had more say about the composition of their break-in oils than the Engineering Departments did.

TORCO.

Too late you already ordered the JGD.

There are 3-4 oil companies that make oil worth bothering with. Torco, LAT, JGD and one other I cant think of that are the top of the top. Maxima is the other but Ive never tested it.

they go downhill fom there, meaning quality of additve package, amount of additives etc. You almost always get what you pay for with oil.

I sure hope that last sentence is correct..
that JGD sure wasnt cheap

For me, with these old school type motors...... After break in, My two default oils for the past few years has been the JGR/Driven or Brad Penn.

After reading some articles in the engine builder trade magazines about the zinc additives, they've sold me on the idea of using the oil that has the right balance of zinc/additives in it to begin with.

I'd use regular oil with an additive in a pinch if I had to(although, not for flat tappet cam break in), but I'd probably change it out fairly quickly.

It says it can be ran up to 400 miles on the
street... I plan on running it about 100 miles
then change oil and filter... right now I'm
adding a remote filter so I run the larger Wix..
right now I have the short Wix on it but its a
PITA to get it on and off with the headers in
place... I can get it off but it makes a mess...
I also put in a new dist bushing... for some reason
the other one came right out when I pulled the dist
And yes I sized it for the dist

I have used them all here is a brief report--remember that I do about three engines a week
Almost every plain old flat tappet we do that goes across our run stand gets 30 wt non detergent napa oil and a bottle of Lucas zinc additive--NEVER had a failure or issue but these engines all have pretty normal low spring pressures
When I have an expensive engine on the stand I use whatever is easy available either Lucus break in oil, Brad Penn, Gibbs etc NEVER had a failure
The most flat tappet spring pressure I ever broke one in with was the Mopar engine masters deal with Amsoil sponsor so we had to use Amsoil with big zinc--That engine had approx. 450 over the nose--broke in with inners out--then ran the crap out of it on the dyno--on teardown for tech inspection it had the BEST looking lifters and lobes of ANY engine I have ever seen--PERIOD!!! That stuff worked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! With 180 plus minus seat and 450 open it looked perfect!
For every day use the 30 wt and Lucas additive has been doing a GREAT CHEAP job--bought by the case the lUCAS is about $8 a bottle--easy for clients to get at Advance Auto Parts etc
My two cents worth but again the Amsoil was the Shizzle!!!

For everyday stuff... are you talking any decent 30 wt
with a bottle of Lucus zinc.... I run 8 qts in the pan plus
the filter(now using the large Wix 51515) I dont use
the race one.. it doesnt filter as well as the non race
filter but does flow more