Keith Black Racing Street Block

Hello All Is Keith Black Racing still in business as I have order a street wedge block last year, had to pay in full upfront $6125.00 kept in contact with Ken up in till 4 weeks ago his phone goes straight to the answering machine and he does not reply to any emails should I book a plane flight to the US?

I bought a block from KB back in 2014. I found the best time to phone was around 2pm Pacific Time (US). But at least somebody answered the phone during regular California (Pacific US) work day hours. Lots of delays, but I did eventually get the block. Another racer near me received his block in 2015 about 16 months after ordering.

I haven't been in touch with KB this year.

I'd keep hounding them. I have not heard much good about them in the past couple years. I know I wouldn't be placing an order w/ them right now. I bought my KB block back in 2006...things were a lot different then.

I'm in the same boat. Ken sent me a picture of my block (well said it was my block) being machined on March 7, 2016. I paid the remaining balance and haven't heard a word since. No response to my emails or phone calls.

Ordered my block oct. 6 2015. Can only reach ken after 3 pm in the evening. We are just the little guys. I figure it will be a great Christmas present. Ken told me my block should be end of july. When you want the best it is worth the wait.

After waiting waaaaaaayyyyyy longer than quoted and being lied to on the phone numeras times and after at least 20 calls I made a trip down there , to show him I wasn't fooling around with him anymore.... That got action and was ready a month after my first trip there.....heard kb would go above and beyond to make sure everything was perfect, that was a lie.... I spent $750 more to have a few items fixed.... I wish you luck!!! I would find a member on here that lives close to KB and have them make a visit or two....

Shame

Little "guy" or not - if they are prepared to take your $$$$ then you are at least worth a reply/phone call/update to your enquiries - at a bare minimum.

Total BS sorry.

Have a look on facebook at 'Aussie charger hot rod drag week' and you will see some of the problems associated with KB blocks. Keep scrolling down until you see the issues with the block. Its possible that they send defective blocks to overseas customers. If you finally get the block I would have it sent to a reputable shop in the US and have it thoroughly checked out before it is shipped.

Called Today got through to Ken and he also email me back too. He said my block will be ready for delivery from the foundry in a few days will have to wait and see if it happens? Thanks for every ones feed back if any one here's any good or bad news please let me know.

I feel I should point out a few things that I have seen which were similar to the Aussie post which talks about KB oiling problems.

IMO, it's up to the builder to check what you have. You just can't assume anything, regardless of where it comes from. For example:

* KB block castings do not have lifter oiling so they have to be gun drilled if that's what you need. That process can hit the oil feed oil that would normally feed the head from the #4 cam bearing. A problem? - sure, but detectable and fixable before you get started.
* That gun drilling can be blocked off later if you install or relocate lifter bushings. I recently built a motor where I had to run oil lines in the lifter valley to get oil to the front of the oil galleys. A pain again?, sure, but again fixable.
* The gun drilled galleys are normally fed by oil that goes around the #5 cam bearing via an extra groove. I asked Ken at KB to prepare the block for 60mm roller cam bearings (I even sent him a bearing so he got the bore correct). When they enlarged the holes that they inadvertently removed that extra oil groove. I had to feed the galleys from an external line. A pain again, sure, but fixable again.
* The head feed holes that normally go to #4 cam bearing where blocked off by the shell of the roller cam bearing. So I added separate oil lines directly from the back of the block to feed the heads.

You have to check EVERYTHING. Ken stands behinds his product but the market has clearly stretched his ability to keep up with the QC. The good news was no major machining was required and everything could be fixed as long I spent the time to check everything before assembly.

I heard the "my block will be ready for delivery from the foundry in a few days" for 16 months. Last March it was "your block is being machined, it'll be a couple weeks to get the sleeves and finish it up, please send the balance" I have not had a phone call or email answered since. I've called and emailed almost every day this month. To say I'm pissed is an understatement. I'm at 20 months from ordering and really starting to wonder.

Man I hate to hear this from a company that was once so great. I look at the block recite from my purchase from ken several times a year and thank god I was so lucky to have zero issues with my purchase or delivery. Ken used to stop in once in awhile and I miss that

Have two close friends living this kb nightmare as we speak, one has been waiting close to 2yrs, the other one is close to a yr I believe. Same old story, broken record, both in over 6k each. I feel bad as I'm the the one that referred to them that the kb is the way to go. Not good..... I'm afraid they are both out.

I should be good for life but I too have highly recommended keith black racing as my block was spot on and only in need of the usual checking and cleaning. The worst part of a deal like this is lack of communication from ken. And that my friend would make me order an indy block if ever in need

I got my KB block back in 2006 and it was/is a very nice piece. Needed very minimal work to put it together and run. I'd always told everyone to go w/ KB over anyone else, but that's sure not the case now. I hope you fellas that have given them money can get something back...whether it be a block or your money. I'd be flying out to Cali. if he had 6 grand of mine!

6 Grand, lol try 7500...It is very nerve wrecking to have that money in someone hands that wont return calls or emails. I'm too nice but ya I'm at 10 months and waiting... I am only 6 or so hours away from kb but ya it sucks...

His phone line is busy right now...Maybe life there after all.

Hopefully it wasn't the janitor called for a food delivery.

lol it is still busy...

Hopefully it's not off-the-hook!

I drove by there a couple of weeks ago and there was signs of life. A few cars in the parking lot, a pick up against the wall on the side, etc.

The answering machine has been disconnected.

Ruh Roh!

Talked to Ken today...Good things too

Good luck with that.

Not trying to offer excuses for KB but I had called them, Ken Black ended up talking to me, last year to see how long and how much for a new street Hemi block with dry sleeves. He said thay had switch vendors on the castings and the casting cores and they where getting blocks that where to soft to use so he couldn't give me a good date on shipping me a block I hope he has resolved that but you need to know that thier are not a lot of company left in So Ca that can cast aluminum blocks and the same on companys that can and will make good casting cores
Good luck to all of you waiting Hopefully you will get a very good, useable block once the problems are resolved

The problem is too many people assume the worst. Ken will dig out of this it is just not going to happen overnight. If you wanna be pissed be pissed at the [censored] California has done to good businesses.

Communication goes a long way and ESPECIALLY if you are in a known delayed system like his or counting on others. Answer the phone or pick up the phone.

yes I do agree with that...

If I were in the market for an aluminum block, and I thought I wanted a KB block, I'd just hang on to my money and see how this whole situation with availability plays out.
If the lead time decreases to something under 6 months, and reports start coming in that people are regularly receiving their blocks with reasonable wait times, then I'd order one.
If that didn't pan out, I'd just have to accept it wasn't going to happen and then figure out an alternative direction.
No way I'm sending over 6k and waiting 18-24 months for a block.

I only had to send in 1/2 payment and the rest was due when it was finished. That s fair.

Is everyone here that is waiting on a block waiting on a water block or solid block? Just wondering...

I am pretty sure that last year on the NHRA web site there was a video about the fact that the latest engine blocks that are used in Top Fuel and Funny car are made from blocks of billet Aluminum by Alan Johnson. These are solid blocks and there is no casting involved, just a lot of NC machining. So the market has changed and not for the better if you want a water block.

I have a billet Brad Anderson hemi block. He can make them water blocks as well but there not as cheep as KB

They are waiting on a water block

BAE have discontinued the Hemi water block. They only ever produced 2 & these are yet to be built & ran....

No demand I bet.

FWIW and this helps no one. But word on the street is he HAD to switch casting vendors because the state of California Environmental folks basically shut them down. Well made it so it would not be cost affective to comply with their regulations anyway. This happened awhile back I hear. Not making any excuses for sure, just sharing info.

Also hear that the Koleno deal was stuck in the water due to loosing the equipment to machine the rough castings was "lost" to a big name vendor who decided to keep it. Same issue with Bill Mitchel, casting and machining issues. I do see Indy acted accordingly and has raised its prices to help

Now that can't be right Al. Just check on that other block thread. According to one member here casting and machining is a piece of cake, appears any idiot could do it...........LOL!!!

Heck do you guys remember when 440source had the sigh up list for the block they were going to have made. I ordered 2 as they were going to be made with that high strength unobtainable steel

If that were only the case!!!!

Oh I know there are other issues as well. Just stating that is one reason of many for the issues getting them. I know about some of the machining issues as well. Just sold a Megalblock to a guy who has a heck of a story about two block makers. There is no excuse for not staying in communication with customers for sure. I for one just like to be told how long something will take with honesty and integrity. Two things that seem to be long gone in todays society

If I may add one more thing to that list Al. COMMUNICATION. We carry cell phones with use all day long and it's becoming a lost art.

THIS............I keep in contact w/all of those that need me to and always will..............

And that is probably a big reason why your business is growing and becoming more popular. And for that I congratulate you on learning so quickly that no one wants to hear a constant busy phone signal our an unanswered phone call

Ken did finally call me. Not sure if it's good news or bad news but at least I got called.

I ordered a raised cam water block from KB 30 months ago. I paid the required 50% down, and last December he hit my card for final payment. Yep, you guessed correctly, no block yet. Just more excuses. First it was main studs, then sleeves, and back to main studs. Just more excuses. I'm telling you, book a flight, and bring bail money. I'm fixing to pay him a visit myself and I don't plan on leaving with my block and what else it takes to make it right.

So sad ...really hate to read this stuff but is what it is now ..be hard for them to come back from the things that's been posted ..I think .reputation is ..smh

30 months! Holy crap. I thought I was the longest at 21 months.

Has anyone actually received a block from Ken Black in the last 12 months? Or how about 18 months?
How can this company stay in business?

I know FHO has but they have been very hard to come by

Boatracer572 did, but I'll let him tell the story, if he wants to.

I have. I got my block in Jan this year. I waited over 17 months. (18 would have been the most i would have waited before demanding my money back).
After getting it we are pleased with it.Everything checked spot on(except for a very small variance on the deck heights from side to side. My engine is now almost done and it should be on the dyno in the next few weeks.

Nice looking mill..Be interested to see how that intake works on the dyno...

I'm surprised to see the "mopar" insignia cast into the block. Were they always like that? I thought they just had "Keith Black" cast into them.

Mine have the Mopar in them

So, if I'm the guys that have been waiting 30 months and 21 months, and hear someone else got theirs recently after only waiting 17 months I've got to be wondering how many other people got blocks "in front of" theirs.
When the lead time is as insanely long as it is for these things you'd like to think it's first deposit/first block.

I'm curious, do TAD and TAFC guys use this style block? Pro Mod?

Im just wondering if there are long time repeat customers for these blocks that just can't/won't wait that long to get one, and that's where the bulk of the blocks go, and the bracket guys get their orders filled as time and "spare" blocks permit.

I believe the TAD and FC guys use solid blocks(no water)
so that MIGHT be the difference if you get put in the front
of the line... and I would assume they order a few blocks
at a time(just a guess)
EDIT
But that still doesnt make it right to have to wait
30 months for a block... I'm thinking there is other
issues.. maybe casting companies are getting pushed
out of business from places like EPA.. maybe sooner
or later it will be all done off shores
Like the chrome shops... they were pushed out due
to EPA

There's even a mopar part number on it. I believe they were sold through mopar performance at one time.

Mine's a low deck block which could explain the time line difference. I think I remember him complaining of some porosity issues with the tall deck blocks. But I agree it doesn't seem right.

Any info on the build you can share

I understand casting problems and the light, but over 2 years for a block, that's just crazy. I can call Dart and get a billet water block made in about 3 months. I realize that's not cast and is all machined, BUT look at the amount of machining involved. I also realize California has cracked down on that stuff, but there has GOT to be somebody somewhere that can cast those blocks for him in a somewhat timely manner and quality

Ken did tell me that he shipped a block that was ordered after mine. So some people get them faster than others. My block is a odd duck low deck 400 mains. And yes the EPA ruined the whole deal by closing up the good foundry KB had used forever.

Some here make it sound like the EPA has so much power to just shut places down......I believe it is a very long process, with much advance notice, inspections, warnings, etc. for places to comply with regulations....

Some make it sound like they shut these places down like they are some crack house....

In another post Monte says they have been waiting for parts for over 7 months for their new engine.....and it's not a mopar.....if only them darn chevy guys weren't so cheap, there would be parts available sooner !!!!

Blame Mother Mopar with this and their dog gone patient rights. They stop everyone and everything for being produced from coffee cups to engine blocks. Dam greed and not caring about the racers has been our downfall.

It aint the EPA in this case it is Cal EPA. They are really good at closing down businesses or making a very unfriendly environment to operate in. Dealt with them for years and they have WAY to much power...

The guy who got his in January waited 18 months (25 months before now). I've been 21 months so he ordered before I did. The guy waiting 30 months has every right to be insanely pissed off especially since he's been paid in full for 8 months (I've been paid in full for 5 months). From my conversation with Ken it'll be at least six weeks if everything goes right before I get my block. I take that with a grain of salt because I was told three weeks last March. To be honest at this point I'm just praying I get a block. Assuming he's telling the truth and my block just needs sleeves I've considered having him ship me the block as is and get the sleeves sourced locally. I know i'd be paying twice but at this point I just want my fricking block.

I'm kind of double screwed because I'm also on hold for ordering a wedge block I need. I don't want to buy one if the KB deal folds because then I'll have to buy a hemi block to replace the one I didn't get. No not knowing if or when I'm getting a block is actually putting two builds on hold. If KB had gotten me a block within 12 months I would have followed up with a wedge order. As it stands now I'm planning on ordering an Indy block from Pete after I get the KB order finalized one way or another.

It's two issues. Getting a timely block and getting the block done. It took 14 months for KB to get my block but its also been another 7 months that they've had it and it's still not done. Taking 14 months to get a block I can eat because it's beyond their control but once they had a good casting I expect it on my porch within 3 months.

ok....since you seem to know exactly what is going on here......which foundry(s) did the Cal EPA "shut down" ?

Edelbrock has a foundry in Cal.....and I believe it is relatively new....how do they get away from the dreaded Cal EPA ??

Probably state of art pollution control systems. I worked at ATI specialty steel company and they just built a 1.6 billion dollar strip mill. Anything new has to be to today's standards

A MOTOR, a complete turn key, ready to go MOTOR.......not just block. And now we have it in the car and ready to go.

I get this block in 6 months. Of course:
1) It was sitting around and I had to be willing to take it as-is.
2) I had a photo of Ken with a duck (LOL)

From what I understand the old foundry was just that, old..Dust collection from machining processes can be a pain in Cali. As can bead, sand and soda blasting, my guess would be that they were not in compliance with dst collection during machining processes. Many companies in Cali are not, just get the wrong guy on the wrong day and there will be hell to pay. I am just commenting on the fact I have heard the old foundry was "shut down" by the state from a pretty reliable source. Seems to jive with what others have said here and other places as to why nothing is being turned out in a timely manor. Casting is a expensive time consuming process. Make it a Cali compliant foundry is likely all that more expensive. Edelbrock has a MUCH larger market share likely making the expense work it. Also they were not retro fitting an existing facility which can cost wa more than building a new one.


Just one tidbit. I had issues with bead blasting as it contains, or can contain unknown heavy metals. You either find a way to test all of it or comply wit the laws that exist for dealing with heavy metals or close it. In our case we closed most all the facilities doing it, was just the least costly way to go. They make it very very difficult to make old equipment, or rarely used equipment to be compliant. My guess is they chose to inspect the old foundry and found enough issues that it was not economically viable to stay in the business. Or at the very least will take time and a lot of money to make it compliant. I was a hazmat officer when I was at Travis AFB and had my share of issues and run ins with Cal Environmental people thank you...

If you have seen what ive seen down there (KB shop)you would be very worried. I too waited wayyyyyy longer than was initially told, after hearing a bunch of lies over the coarse of months I made my first trip down there,and started pressing on him...after getting my block with the decks .022" to short, and other problems.. I all I can say is I made a huge mistake in trusting kb with my thousands of hard earned money... should have bought a BA billet block, would have saved money in the long run....

I deal with every environmental agency in California and, while irritating at times, they aren't out to get anybody. Companies know the rules. Good companies aren't shut down.

I agree with that Bob, but you got to admit the laws have changed a lot over the last 20 years and compliance inspections are spotty at best, especially on smaller businesses.

So are the sleeves available or are they also a holdup? The ones in my KB block could use replacing next go-around.

Call Darton....

The sleeves are a hold up because he orders the blanks in bulk 50+ at a time and he's out but hoping to order them in three weeks.

That sounds pretty lame... if your low on something
you get your order in so you DONT run out... and now
he will order them in 3 weeks

What's wrong with the WORLD aluminum Hemi block?

Sounds like a complete load of crap. Guys, I'd do everything I could to get my money back and seek a block elsewhere.

Texas is full of companies that have dealt with the California EPA. Just wish KB would move here also.


Joe

I have some KB tall deck sleeves, if someone needs them They are only the 4.630 OD sleeves. I wish I had my KB block back, but I won't buy one from him. He's not an honest guy. I feel bad for the guys that are stuck without blocks, but it's not like several here haven't informed people about him.

I know it's not a street block but for reference I ordered a new BAE block last Thursday and picked it up yesterday. It's a custom order not an off-the-shelf block so they made it to order..

Not to beat a dead horse but talking with FHO today and he said KB is done.

So how many racers are going to lose their money?
I saw this coming for 2 years now.

I bet it could be made into a street block..... Ask brad to put in some water jackets...

Doh!

If true it's going to be hard to come back from financially and mentally. I've got a lot invested in a complete top half already. If I don't get a block I'll have to decide to buy another and finish or sell what I got and cut my losses. Dragging on month after month just sucks. I wish it could get resolved one way or another so I can move in some direction. Waiting in limbo just lets the aggravation build.

I have heard similar info but not sure it's true..

This is shameful. Sorry for all your loses if that is what transpires.

Who is FHO?

On that note, I was over at BEST machine over the summer and spoke with Chuck about blocks of Sh#t coming out of many manufacturers or shops if any. Apparently, they are receiving Indy's blocks which seem to be the better of the bunch now with a few minute issues cleared up in the machining.

"For Hemis only"

Yep in the same boat here also. Really sours the whole deal for sure...

Sorry for any who lost out on money. It really sucks
On the flipside FHO is working on a new billet block that he says shouldn't be a whole lot more than a KB
He is having 6 made atm.
Necessity is the mother of invention I suppose

I feel for the ones that lose money on KB. It sucks on a lot of levels.

How'd you go... did you get your block?

This really sucks for everyone, I've got a KB block that's been sitting for 4yrs and back then it took me 8 months to get it.
But in the end it showed up and it's in the car for mock up as we speak.
Now I'm hoping I don't run into any problems when I get the engine built.
I feel bad for everyone not knowing what's going on.

Kevin

So has anyone got phone calls or better yet a block? Know someone that stopped by KB and they are there working...

If Y'all only knew>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eU1lTAL0XY

Trust me guys... K.B. Racing is doing it's best still... They got some big shoes to fill and are not getting any help...

This state has a bunch of Window licking fk tards in it....

No excuses... Just saying

Here is another one.... Shipped off to China....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E7veOnNbZc

Just my 2 cents worth....

I gave Ken Black $15000 as 50% deposit on an engine 16 months ago, he had one excuse after another and finally agreed to a refund. Never happened. Wont answer my calls or return messages. His dad would be proud of how he's running the business, not. I will be making a trip down from Canada to see him in person.

Randy

Randy,
What you may want to do is, hire a lawyer in So. Cal to write a letter or go visit him. There might even be a member here that would be willing to do it. This BS must stop. So many here have been burned by them. The last thing you want to do is wind up in jail in the Los Angeles area, believe me. This would be much cheaper in the long run.

Wow there is a lot of us with no blocks, engines and out big amounts of money...

Tommy, sure glad you waited "patiently" before shelling out money.

I spoke to a guy last night at the track who had a kb block he got two years ago. This reminded me why I ordered a kb block two years ago. Because people where actually getting them then. I last spoke to ken on August 10. I was told at that time he hoped to order sleeves in 2-3 weeks and that's all my block needed. Of course that was two months ago and he hasn't returned any of my calls.

How can a company that builds aluminum blocks have a plan to "order sleeves in 2-3 weeks" for a sold block? Thats rediculous. That kind of stuff should be on the shelf, in stock, ready to go.

Has he always been this slow?

No! Sad to see this happen. Probably foundry issues, if I had to guess.

I guess my next block will come from Indy, not going down this road

Has anyone heard anything out of KB. Last time I talked to him was last August and all my block needed was sleeves and cam bearings. He hasn't returned a call since.

Have not heard a word here. Last I spoke to him was months ago. No reply since. Have heard they are there working but know nothing else...

No working capital means no parts inventory.

Probably operating on a C.O.D. basis with their suppliers after they got tired of waiting for their money, too.

And that is 1 step away from a bankruptcy.

Sad to say, but needs to be said.

Like we said before, they already have 2 strikes against them being in California. They should form a partnership to get working capital and MOVE to another state.

Also a pretty good indicator they don't have the $$$ to refund anybody's order that they can't fill.

Bad juju...

I agree, 100%

Wasn't there supposedly a partnership brewing b/t KB and FHO?

FHO and some other partner.

But they are still in California and they aren't very friendly to a casting company

FHO is in Canada, maybe they can have them cast here. Of course then American's won't buy them any more because they are import.

KB doesn't cast anything. They buy the castings. So they could buy castings from China or Canada or Idaho. The machining is done in Cali.

As was the foundry they came from...

Lots of speculation going on.
The stars will have to align to make kb blocks available again

The problem when I was down there last was with the castings from I think LA Foundry. Porosity and Blocks cracking after being machined. I don't know what Ken is doing but it would be nice to know he at least takes care of the guys that spent money already.

Need somebody in L.A. area to swing by and get an update.

TALKED TO KEN TODAY...Not much info to share but we will be getting blocks. I have faith, it has been a rough road but I do see light a the end of the tunnel. Now everyone can start the bashing...

I hopes he makes it, and either supplies the blocks or refunds. Never want to see a business go down.

Hope they can turn the corner for sure.

I'd sure hate to see them fold up, but if he'd treated me the way he's treated others recently, I'd be buying a plane ticket to go collect. He was great to deal with 10 years ago when I bought my hemi block...hope things return to the way they were.

Im at 25 months now. I've considered doing the plane ticket but honestly I'm afraid its just throwing more money down the rabbit hole that would be better used buying another block if this falls through.

From my prospective I think you guys that made deposits will get you blocks, might take some more time, but in the long run I believe you will get them.

After talking with Ken numerous times and dealing with him numerous times I believe he is a genuine guy. I don't think he knows how to tell people that he is waiting on the foundry. Foundry has been down do to EPA violations and now in back in compliance. I believe they are up and running once again. Law suits back and forth on who is going to pay for this huge mess I'm sure are a large amount of a time suck for everybody evolved.

So back to square one for you guys that put money down, once he gets the blocks from the foundry he has to machine them finish them up and get them out to folks.

I would believe the guys who threatened him with law suits and going there to inflict harm to him will be dealt with first because the squeaky wheel always gets the grease.

Anyways I hope for everybody's sake this issue gets resolved.

I did also have a friend drop by there last week and things were happening in the KB shop and yes he was told the same story biginch(sorry bob could not resist) and I talked about last night. Just sucks to be on such a holding pattern on finishing my front engine dragster.

Yet even for people that have paid in full for blocks that were "in the machining stages" there is no blocks or return of money for those that can't wait. It's sounds like a ponzi scheme lie that keeps getting bigger. I'm sorry, but if you're sending this guy money after all of the information out there and on this site, you're an idiot.

Is the foundry in CA to? I cant imagine the red tape that would entail. Like find another foundry in another state would probably make 250% more sense..

I think all you guys have been saved. I saw Tim Banning at PRI show (he just flew in from L.A.) and this is what he told me. BTW I asked him if I had to keep this under my hat, and he said you can go a head and put it out there. He said he's now majority owner of KB, and there hoping to have a hundred blocks by sometime in January. The hundred blocks might be a little ambitious, but never the less going in the right direction. So this should be a nice Christmas present for you guys.

Great news!!! Been wanting to buy a low deck wedge KB, maybe it will happen.

Excellent news.

Better get that Dart painted and ready Mike.. Lol

Talked with Tim today
Hold on to your hats. KB will be obtainable and something new STOCKED at dealers

That is awesome news....

Especially if part of the change in majority ownership includes sourcing the castings from a different foundry that has more production capacity and faster product delivery time.

That assumes that KB's current foundry was/is already maxed out, and that the holdups in KB getting blocks weren't primarily due to a lack of cash flow holding up being to pay for them.

The way I see it......... When it comes to problems with production like this...... It always comes down to the $$$$.

If the issue was really a problem with getting pieces from the foundry, how is a new owner going to remedy that?
I think the answer is $$$$$.

I have no dog in this fight, but very glad to hear that the company seems to be on it's way to reorg.
KB would be the first block I'd choose from what is out there.

Just to be clear. This is NOT a done deal yet. Lets just keep our fingers crossed as talks progress.

Rich Nedbal

May not be done legally but done on a verbal level

Wonder if this is the same foundry that was doing Everharts blocks?

I highly doubt that

Posted all the same crap in 2014 &15, half down, went to his shop. Nothing going on there!! Huge antiquated facility. 19 mos. later engine builder back charged credit card. Luckily we got our money back. Ordered from Indy. Ken is a calm seemingly nice guy who always has a ready excuse. I feel I was very lucky to get away from him laryatlas

I just hope that with FHO sinking investment $ into a troubled company doesn't take them both down due to some unknowns, I'd hate to see Tim get into trouble, he's been a fantastic vendor to our hobby. Hopefully Tim did his due diligence.

That's exactly what I'm worried about Scott. He get's involved with that company and there's going to be a ton of surprises come up from the past. I hope he did a clean deal where he buys the tooling and not part of the business.
Tim treats people using very high ethics, not everyone does the same.

Sheldon

From facebook today


Mopar Drag Racing - Classified Ads & Discussions
57 mins ·
I received an exciting email this morning Tim Banning owner of For Hemis Only aka FHO has bought into Keith Black Racing Engines and will be handling all sales of Keith Black blocks. He will have them available early this year. This is great news! The KB block is the best there is and Tim is viewed as best Hemi builder out there by many of us. He is a great guy so this should end delays getting your hands on your block. Contact him for details

That's fantastic, I'll take 2 scoops please!

Talked with Tim today
It sounds very promising for KB.
They have until the end of the year to solidify the deal.

Well hopefully this works out. I'm hopeful I get a call in a week or two since I've been paid in full for 9 frickin months and haven't had my calls returned since last August. KB was broke and unable to get product out with no capital. Unable to deliver product means no new orders. I hope FHO's buy in gives them the money they need to get things moving but more importantly it brings FHO's reputation which will get orders coming back in.

Right now I'm cautiously optimistic. The deal ain't done. If the deal gets done and my block gets done then Tim may get rewarded with me paying him to build a short block. I also need a wedge block that's been on hold because of my hemi block being on hold. If Tim proves he can deliver blocks in a timely manner he'll get that one too.

When I hear of someone ordering a block and getting it in about a month with no issues...........I will order one myself the next day

I dearly hope they sort it out. There really isn't another option of that quality. Going to something like noonans water block comes with canning almost everything else to swap to it. Indy blocks are marginal at best, and no tall deck option. C+C will make what ya want, as long as it's a solid billet, in about a year, and for about 12 grand.

I'd be a right now buyer too, if I could get one. The last one took almost 2 years......, but I did get it.

No Dog in this fight but hopefully when he steps in they don't have a name change in some way shape or format..if so those that have paid sorry probably never get a block or money from the deal..I would love to have 1 for a new build going through the dreaded divorce process now but once done if they are available in a timely fashion I'll buy 1 if not ..on to the next bbc planing a glide install anyway..

Yes the thought has crossed my mind that if they reorganize by closing up and the opening anew then someone may be buying my block in January that I've been waiting two years for.

The next time someone talks to Tim can they ask if he plans to deliver what's in the pipeline?

I don't think Tim would go into a deal like this and want to carry that bad baggage and BAD rep. A big business could handle it but it would bury a small business. I'm betting all orders will be filled or I for one would NEVER buy from that company. Would you???

Tim says he will be honoring blocks owed.
They cant be done first but will be filtered through with regular runs starting at the longest owed.
So there will still be some waiting but they will come.

Tim being willing to honor orders from the previous company is so far beyond normal ethics, I can't believe he's doing it. That action speaks volumes to credibility.

Thanks for the info.

You'd be hard pressed to find somebody who stands more behind his word and product than Tim

I have a question.....what happened to all of the money that Ken took from all of the people that are still waiting for blocks? Isn't that called theft? I, like most here, hope that Tim can save the KB product and applaud his effort to right Ken's wrong. But I also hope that Ken feels he has some responsibility to make things right.

What ever happened to the FIFO (First In, First Out) approach to handling product delivery? This makes it sound like the new crew can't afford to deliver the old orders until they get cash coming in from new sales. That's not a good indicator of how well financed this new venture is, IMO.

One could assume that the critical part of saving the company is reestablishing a reputation of being able to deliver a timely block. At least if I was the new owner that is what I'd be thinking. Tim has the power to generate his own orders to KB from FHO's customers. Who's going to taken care of first?

If this is the case it obviously affects me negatively. After two years I want my block! The alternative is I could have been out all my money so I'll take what I can get. In this case better late than never applies. The best thing they can do is call all the people who have paid and explain what the plan is and when to expect to have something they paid for years ago. As I stated above I paid half 25 months ago and I've been paid in full for nine months and only received one call last August. If I don't get a call by 2017 I'll have to start blowing up phones again.

Cool your jets guys. First you have EVERY right to be upset about the way that Ken Black has handled this. Tim is trying to save this deal and the ink is not even on the contract let alone dry. Honoring the existing order is a primary concern and the methods to do that are being hashed out as we speak. I have first hand information that the new ownership is dead serious about restoring the reputation of the blocks and that means taking care of people that have already been in line. I also know that Tim will be announcing very soon what the deal is in a public and professional way. Hang in there just a bit longer and give him a chance to get the keys to the car before he starts getting bum rushed. Give the guy a chance before everyone starts with all the negativity.
The new effort is well financed and the new team has to get in the door and establish who payed what,when? New suppliers for head studs, sleeves and odd parts are already in the works. I know that there are members here who to this point got the shaft and I am included on that list.
This is still a fluid situation and while Tim does not expect a bunch of fan boys, lets all give him a little time and space to pull this heap of mess out of the ditch.
Todd

Call Ken and ask him yourself....
He didn't follow it but the new owners are supposed to?
Get your head out of your a$$
IMO it would be a tough pill to swallow filling back orders that the money got pissed away.
They are going to man up and fill them in a timely matter but you're expecting more.
All I can say is WOW some people

1. I don't need to call; he doesn't have any of MY money.

2. Pull your own head out; my comment is based strictly that IF the new ownership can't fill the orders for those who have already paid and have been waiting before filling new orders, that's an indication that they don't have -- or aren't willing to put up -- the money to do so.

3. If new buyers are getting blocks while earlier purchasers are waiting their turn, the people who already kicked in their money have every right to be pi$$ed.

If YOU can't understand the situation as described from a simple business perspective, that's not MY problem. "Some people..." indeed.

As for being well, or under funded really isn't the point. A business venture is just that. Either a deal is profitable, or not. Why try first to save the old, if the new can't work? I know what it's like to get jammed out of money, so I get it. I want blood when I get jammed.

Take your own loss out of the thought, and it makes sense. Should it be a profitable company, then straighten out the inherited mess later when it works. Should it fail, then what does Tim owe anyone? He will have lost his investment, so why pick up Ken's tab?

When ya think about it for a sec, just talking about refunds, or filling past orders is huge. IMO

My just need me feeling this way but..I'm sorry if he had my money in full payment for 2 yrs I don't need to wait any longer..I'm getting a lawyer or something..we're not talking about 200 dollars here and many things in people life change from day to day God forbid 2 yrs..that's why I couldn't wouldn't up to get a block I'm self employed in have maintenance tires anything is possible..now would it be any different if I had the block at home some may ask cause those things still may come up ..yes it does in have my block at home he don't have my 5or6 thousand dollars and my block ..but as I said some may not feel the same.

As some others have said for themselves, I don't have a dog in this fight, either. I've expressed some opinions, and from here out all I can say is I hope that KB survives and is able to produce quality products in the future, as well as do the right things to re-establish the company's business reputation.

The thing about the money that Ken already has.......is that obviously it's GONE. Where makes no difference, it's GONE. If he could have produced blocks OR refunds, we likely wouldn't be having this discussion. According to how the new deal is laid out, Banning COULD say "oh well, hate it for those guys" and just start over, but it appears he is not going to do that and is going to assist Ken in getting that taken care of.

Somebody above mentioned a lawyer.........fine, get one. Guarantee it won't get you any closer to a block or money. Tim is not stupid enough to set up HIS investment to be used to take care of problems out of HIS control.

How things SHOULD be and how they are, is entirely two different things. As stated, how about give it a chance before piling on. Also seems the ones who DO have money tied up here are moaning the least. The ones saying what everyone else should do, don't have money invested, so it's a moot point

Yep being out 7500$ for 15 months and not being able to finish my race car is not a very good feeling. Oh and a divorce 7 months ago. I think I have been pretty nice. Just hope all I have been told is true. Not getting a block will end my deal. It sounds like everyone is jumping too soon. I did not reveal any info just because of this reason. Everyone has a opinion but if you are not one that is out money in this deal, you should not hammer anyone that is involved. Have faith in the deal and hope it is sooner than later. Quit being keyboard warriors and get along. Thanks Monte as for I feel the same way.

Yes it is. But if you think about it there's good reasons for doing it.

-Reputation. I can only assume KB's current woes are due to no new orders rolling in. If they don't fill the back orders you'll have a hornets nest of angry vocal people which won't help with getting new orders.

-If KB went bankrupt then the assets are sold to the highest bidder and creditors paid. If someone buys in providing the needed capital to move on it's much easier but I assume all debts are still legally due including people who have paid for goods not yet delivered. If they didn't deliver back orders then there's a good chance lawsuits would start rolling in. (I'll disagree with Monte here. If someone buys in then their money is on the line. No way around it. I can only assume Tim looked at what was owed and considered it manageable)

-Finally there may not be very much needed to finish many of the back orders. Unless I was lied to back in August my block is done except for sleeves, cam bearings and studs. Many others may be just as close if KB didn't have the capital or the credit to buy sleeves, bearings, studs etc to finish blocks.

This is all speculation and opinion on my part. I'm sure there is a lot more to it.

I'm also more than willing to sit tight. I don't have much choice. I just hope myself and the others with money on the line get a call sometime soon.

Nobody REALLY knows other than parties involved, but a little common sense here goes a long way. We know Tim has done due diligence on researching this. If they are 20 blocks behind and have nothing to show........that's a 100K. So he is NOT going to open himself to be liable for that right off the bat. That would be stupid. Now if that 20 behind means they have 20 castings that need machining, or sleeves, whatever......well that is another matter, that is manageable. The reality is likely in the middle somewhere, but WE don't know. But I will about bet the farm that however it will be set up, Tim Banning or FHO will not be immediately liable for owed monies. That would be crazy.

My GUESS and it's strictly a guess, is that Tim is an investor to help get the company turned around. His "investment" assures that HE will get blocks to sell, which in turn creates cash flow that will allow Ken to fill backorders. But again, that's a guess

Monte Smith you are a wise man

An alternative that you guys are not thinking about, well, many of you, is that KB could have declared Chapter 7 bankruptcy, paid off all the people (banks, etc) who have first claim on the money, then told you left holding the bag, "sorry". And if you think you have first claim to the money, good luck.

The fact that they're making any noises about backorders is promising. Not that promising, but at least they're saying the right things.

Look at Keisler, they died and Silver Sport took over and seems to be making it work. It happens all the time in my world, a guy is a perfectly fine engineer but a horrible section manager. It's possible that a guy might be a tremendous engine builder but a lousy businessman. I don't know anyone, but for the sake of the sport I hope KB stays in the business.

I know I don't understand the pain of those whose life and livlihood has been dragged down below the surface. Please accept my condolences.

R.

Tim at FHO called me today to go over my order. He is working through all the back orders trying to take care of the people who have been waiting. I know other people have been contacted and if you haven't I assume you will be soon. He also talked about what the future holds moving forward so hopefully that means a consistent source of quality blocks will become a reality. Tim indicated that more information will coming out in the coming months.

Saw the press release.. This is great news and I will be getting in my order as soon as I see how this all shakes out..

http://www.keithblack.com/img/20170124-keith-black-press-release.pdf

I think it's good news to see that they are going to embrace the Gen III hemi also.

This is a twist I did not expect, but good news.

I've been bugging Tim at FHO for awhile now about gen 3 stuff.
Maybe stage v will have a head offering soon?

BRAVO!!!!!!!!
I really hope that the pricing can come down which would really escalate sales, IMHO.

It will be interesting to see how it all pans out. I think it would be a great loss if Keith Black Racing Engines went out of business. It's good to see a couple of Aussie's and a Canadian bail them out

Very good news on many levels. Curious on what plans they have for the GenIII

Great news for sure,,, maybe when things get rolling they could offer a 4.84 BS option?? You never know.

I read this situation ( as any sane person should) that the new company is going to stand behind 100% previous orders which haven't been delivered.
Assuming that money is gone, they are basically willing to eat it, to be upstanding people.
They seem to want to sprinkle in these" losing deliveries" with fresh stuff they sell and get paid for so as to be making some money while taking a bath on the others.
If they started off by losing money on every single bad deal from Ken they are making good on, they might not be around themselves.
Be happy they are doing the right thing and intend to stay viable themselves. It seems the sensible and most feasible way of making everyone happy.

they offer a 4.84" an 4.9" and 5.0" option as well, the prob. is no one other than indy currently offer a head.. I'm glad to here that the people that have been waiting for blocks might actually see them , for me I orderd waited,waited and waited some more for a block that was everything put perfect,Including having the main seal area welded on...If it wasn't for making a trip down there a couple times, I'm sure I would be in the same boat as others!!! as long as ken black is involved in any future of keith black racing, they will never see a dime of my money again!!!

I talked to Todd at Marsh Performance last week. I think this will work out well now. I trust him as much as anyone. I don't like the idea of Ken being involved either, but totally trust that Todd won't screw anyone, so neither will Ken. It doesn't sound like he will have a chance to.

Check out the block 360 view at

http://iconfigurators.com/keith-black/

Just saw this on the "General" site. Listed as Hemi, but it's a wedge motor.

http://iconfigurators.com/keith-black/

Damn, beat out again!

Yes we know it is a wedge. That art work was just some conception ideas being kicked around by the graphic artist. Thank you all for pointing it out. Computer Graphics guys and gals are not engine builders......Now why won't these pushrods clear and why are my hemi pistons so dang flat!

That's easy. Just have the computer guys use their eraser and fix it.

Fixed

even easier...

TRENDZ: You must do Graphic Designing for a living. Ha ha ha.