Big Inch Factory Block Combos-HELP ME! this is long...

Posted By: amixon

Big Inch Factory Block Combos-HELP ME! this is long... - 02/06/09 11:43 AM

So when I am not moving an armored suburban, towing a damaged M-RAP or shuttling M1-A2 Tanks for the Marines (NO A\C IN THOSE TANKS, THEM BOYS IS TOUGH

)I have more than enough time left over for my favorite past time-BENCH RACING!

I like big cars and those of you that know me KNOW I need a big car, don't get me wrong I am still craving a `63 Dodge, but I have to have a goal while over here in Iraq and one of them is to resurrect my `70 Sport Fury. I have the body, Dana 60 (with a 3.73 or a 4.56), the 727, the custom exhaust (thanks Butcher!) so I will need a BIG engine. My dream (once everybody AND thing is paid off) is something South of 512 cubic inches. I am looking to make torque more so than HP (the last car was 4,750 or so with me in it)and the 520-540 wedges have my eye. The ONLY sticking point are the headers, they are designed to use an INDY raised port style head (I had SR's on the last 440) so I need a few RB based stroker ideals that use this port location. Of course we are looking to keeping things around 10,000 USD give or take a few grand...

A few parts I already have these may help narrow the combo down:

I have 3.73's or 4.56's for the dana
Tire size will be in the 30" range
Hi Speed Welding made the Headers with 2 1/4 primaries and a 3" exhaust
The Frame will be tied and the car caged
Ladder bar suspension with coil overs

Any lessons learned or what to avoid will be greatly appreciated! Thanks for taking the time to read and respond to this!

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Posted By: Defbob

Re: Big Inch Factory Block Combos-HELP ME! this is long... - 02/06/09 12:23 PM

bore block .055
4.25" stroke
7.1" BBC rods
CNC Mopar "452" Heads from Modern Cyl.
.600ish Solid tappet cam, 250 @ .050
for torque, Performer RPM port matched
Holley 850DP
Steel or iron rockers, like Comp Pro Magnums or Crane

Posted By: amixon

Re: Big Inch Factory Block Combos-HELP ME! this is long... - 02/06/09 01:58 PM

That Mopar head has a raised port and I have done the .055 over bore before, that wasn't any fun either! I guess I should have mentioned that I have no problem running a solid roller (where or where is my Scotty Brown

) I am also looking for the pros and cons of the bigger stroke combinations, I have read about using a girdle and billet caps. Maybe it would be best to just invest in a World Block from the get go and go all out to 572?

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Big Inch Factory Block Combos-HELP ME! this is long... - 02/06/09 05:50 PM

Quote:

I have read about using a girdle and billet caps. Maybe it would be best to just invest in a World Block from the get go and go all out to 572?

Bigger is better when your trying to make big horsepower torque, the cam, heads, intake and carburetion, headers(which you already have) I would (and did) get the 4.5 bore World block and a good quality forged steel 4.5 crankshaft like Ohio, Scat, 440 source, nothing fancy needed like Callies, Crower or Bryant for this application. I would use a good quality steel 7.1 long BB Chevy rod size with the .990 wrist pin and a good quality piston like Diamond, J$E or your personal favorite forged high silicon piston brand. I would also use the Indy heads like th SR or 440-1 to make the most of the headers you have now, probally the 440-1. Get a good rocker assembly and a really good intake(Indy bathtub with two carbs

) and carbs for this motor. Get a roller cam and kit built for this combination and expext to make 750+HP and close to or over 800 FT. Lbs torque

EDIT, I didn't see if this is a race car only or a street and strip brawler, which is it going to be

The reason I ask is the type of fuel will determine the static compression ratio.

Posted By: RonP

Re: Big Inch Factory Block Combos-HELP ME! this is long... - 02/06/09 05:57 PM

Don't have any to add to your post, but we met when I was stationed in IL right?

I had the BB volare and hung out at Ray Dixons machine shop.

Stay Safe

Ron

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: Big Inch Factory Block Combos-HELP ME! this is long... - 02/06/09 06:13 PM

In a Big Fury body I'd go with a 4.375" stroke 2.20 rod journals and a 7.100 rod so depending on your piston you'll have around 528" on a pump gas freindly zero deck d-dish 11:1 shortblock.

With the Indy-1's don't go crazy worrying about the high lift flows because you want moderate RPM and tons of torque so you can nail it anywhere in the RPM range. Something flowing about 285 @.400 and ~345 @.600 will be great. I'd run the MW ported indy dual plane (similar to the one on my 517) and a moderately big hydraulic roller cam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd8GeXYYkKU

You can go aftermarket block and go BIG BIG, depends how much $$$ you want to throw at it and if you're gonna race it every week, You don't want/need a ton of stall with massive torque in a heavy car, so the stresses aren't going to be that great and with a long arm long rod it's gonna work great without having to go mega $$$ if you don't want to . I figure you'll want and get big fat torque from about 3200-up so i'd run a pretty tight 9 1/2" set up for stroker duty where it'll flash to ~4200-4400.

Always liked them 70 Furys, with a massive torque stroker you're gonna make a lot of fast cars look pretty slow.

Thanks for your service, big guy!!! Let me know if I can help with anything, Proud to say I've got a lot of military 'Pen Pals' over there, I love to help them out with Mopar questions whenever I can!!

Posted By: challenger1320

Re: Big Inch Factory Block Combos-HELP ME! this is long... - 02/06/09 06:14 PM

If you really want to do a big inch motor I can but you in a 572" world block, CNC stealth heads, roller cam, milidon oiling system, choice of intake and carb., billet dist., Alm. water pump amd housing, ect. complete turn key. at or below $10,000.00. Just PM me when you are ready.
P.S. Thanks for your service to are country

Posted By: gregsdart

Re: Big Inch Factory Block Combos-HELP ME! this is long... - 02/07/09 03:33 AM

I would go with the 3.73 gears, a 4.5 stroke in a .030 over stock 440 block with aluminum caps and a short fill to help it stay intact. That should help the main webs and cylinder walls. I like cubes, as you can tell.
If you can find a good set of edelbrock rpm heads, hopefully fully ported with big valves it will help the power out a lot. The valvetrain will be critical in making good power, and here is where the budget will really determine how much power you can build into it. The purpose of running as many cubes as possible is to get as close to the max airflow out of your chosen heads as you can at as low an rpm as you can. This will allow you to run a less expensive valvetrain and still make good power. You can fool the motor into thinking it has a better cam in it than it really does if you can keep the revs at 6000 or less and go high on the rocker ratio (1.7?) I did this once with a 1.75 erson steel rocker and a .590 mopar cam. Worked great with low shift points.

Posted By: bentwheel43

Re: Big Inch Factory Block Combos-HELP ME! this is long... - 02/07/09 04:43 AM

In your kind of work look out for a used turbo charger or 671 and rebuild it ,then get that 512" low compression and get a good rearend

that will doit.

Posted By: amixon

Re: Big Inch Factory Block Combos-HELP ME! this is long... - 02/07/09 04:52 AM

Thanks guys,

This is the sort of information I'm looking for! Cab, it is a street car, but my version of 'street' is a little different than most, but I do want a pump gas combo. You also brought up a few good points with the crank issue, I was looking at something from 440 source to get the lower end squared away so I am glad you "green lighted" something along those lines. It will not be an RPM motor (of course) something around 5,500 with a max of 6,000 will be more than enough for me.

With the valve train I am looking at something from RAS or Comp. I know the RAS stuff is nice and sort of the ground between the Comps and Jesel/ T&D gear.

I have always loved that bathtub intake, just worried about Clearance, maybe I can run a `roided out Hemi scoop on that C-body to clear those carbs?

One of the biggest sticking points will be the block, New or semi filled stock block. I know in the long run the World block is the way to go...I guess I will be in Iraq for an additional year!

The goal, ultimately is to have something this big into the low 11's or-dare I say it-high 10's!
I know it sounds lofty but my old 440 pushed the car to 12.30's so...

Ron, check your email Marine, good looking A-body!

Section 8, Turbos would mean new headers and the 6-71 in not quite as subtle as I like. But thanks! My Buddy AnthonyFury has 4 turbos on his 68 Fury so I do beleive in the forced induction but not with what I already have.

Thanks all!

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Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Big Inch Factory Block Combos-HELP ME! this is long... - 02/07/09 05:00 AM

I have a low deck pump gas stroker(518 C.I.

) motor in my 3400 lb Duster(with me in it that has ran 10:34 so far at 128.6 MPH cork up on motor only with the air cleaner on

It may be that you and I have similar likings on street cars

I don't like filling blocks so I recommend not doing it

PM me anytime for more info

I like building BB Mopar motors that run good, occasionally I'll do a Hemi or a SB but I really like the B-RB motors

I love whupping up on the Hemis with a Wedge

Posted By: Defbob

Re: Big Inch Factory Block Combos-HELP ME! this is long... - 02/07/09 03:14 PM

Quote:

That Mopar head has a raised port and I have done the .055 over bore before, that wasn't any fun either! I guess I should have mentioned that I have no problem running a solid roller (where or where is my Scotty Brown ) I am also looking for the pros and cons of the bigger stroke combinations, I have read about using a girdle and billet caps. Maybe it would be best to just invest in a World Block from the get go and go all out to 572?

The combo I listed is what's in the convertible which weighs 3800lbs. click on my sig and watch what it runs. If you want to go that quick with a 4500lb car, definitely go with an aftermarket block and a 572. You'll have so much more grunt and you can use internal oiling with the world block unlike an oem that has a 3/8" pickup.

Posted By: Kevins493

Re: Big Inch Factory Block Combos-HELP ME! this is long... - 02/07/09 04:31 PM

Quote:

Section 8, Turbos would mean new headers and the 6-71 in not quite as subtle as I like. But thanks! My Buddy AnthonyFury has 4 turbos on his 68 Fury so I do beleive in the forced induction but not with what I already have.

Thanks all!

How about a procharger?

Posted By: amixon

Re: Big Inch Factory Block Combos-HELP ME! this is long... - 02/08/09 10:38 AM

Yes, A ProCharger will be in the future (I actually had a job offer from them but decided to come to Iraq instead of moving to Kansas-D`uh!

)

But I am trying to get the engine foundation set first, and of course if I look at adding one later I will have to drop the compression a bit. There is enough room in the nose of the car to put in a decent sized Intercooler... But all of this will have to wait till I get the engine built, I don't need any help getting side trac

... Oh something shiney!

baby steps!

Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Big Inch Factory Block Combos-HELP ME! this is long - 02/08/09 01:05 PM

Quote:

I am looking to make torque more so than HP (the last car was 4,750 or so with me in it)and the 520-540 wedges have my eye. The ONLY sticking point are the headers, they are designed to use an INDY raised port style head (I had SR's on the last 440) so I need a few RB based stroker ideals that use this port location. Of course we are looking to keeping things around 10,000 USD give or take a few grand...

A few parts I already have these may help narrow the combo down:

I have 3.73's or 4.56's for the dana
Tire size will be in the 30" range
Hi Speed Welding made the Headers with 2 1/4 primaries and a 3" exhaust
The Frame will be tied and the car caged
Ladder bar suspension with coil overs

...
The goal, ultimately is to have something this big into the low 11's or-dare I say it-high 10's!

Go and price out all the machine work and costs of a factory 440 block, aluminum caps, clean, bore, hone, deck, etc. The World block may make sense, and I think you have the budget for it. Then you can build a 4.4-4.5" bore motor with a moderate stroker between 4.250-4.375 giving you something between 517-557 CID. That will make an awesome shortblock.

Then see how much money you have left for the cylinder heads and valve train. I would look close at a set of Indy 440-1 heads and if the money runs short get less porting. But the big CNC job is money well spent when buying new ones. The added port size of the -1 will work well with the 500+ CID.

If hood clearance is a problem, an Indy 440-3 (dominator) intake although tall, will allow a 1050 carb without a spacer. If well tuned, it will work on the street, don't skimp here or driveability will suffer and you would have been better off with a 1000 cfm 4150 style carb for street use.

I think I just spent 5k on your short block, 4k on the heads with valvetrain etc (440-1 kit), and a $1000 on a Pro Systems carb.