440 source stroker

I purchased a complete stroker kit from 440 source and spun #4 rod bearing after only two passes! All other bearing in the engine were in excellent condition. I contacted 440 source with pictures and was informed the problem was oil starvation. The engine was hot vated, engine brushed all oil passages, and pre oiled after assembly. I (assumed) that all dimensions were checked prior to shipment to customer. I only plas-i-gauged the rods and mains. I was informed that the end user was responsible to inspect all dimensions and return the defective product to be re-worked. So a word to the wise, be sure to check all products from 440source, or you will be in my situation.

Fixed

440 source would not replace or discount any amount on another stroker kit.

[quote+ I was informed that the end user was responsible to inspect all dimensions and return the defective product to be re-worked. [/quote]

They are correct.

Seriously doubt that any vendor would give any considerations on a part that failed due to the assembly. They can't control the end user's assembly errors.

Plastigage on ANY motor??? Uhh, NO.

Please tell me you can't be serious. There are many, many reasons for a bearing to spin. Any and all clearances have to be checked whether its a stock type of rebuild or high performance. It takes me hours to properly clean and prep a block before I start assembly. If unsure of yourself leave the job to a professional as its harder than it looks.

My mistake was relying on a company's reputation assuming all tolerances were checked. It was my fault for not checking. I have no concrete proof what was the cause. All i'm saying check all tolerances. Every one makes mistakes. No one makes a perfect, precision product. Just because you pay a lot of money for a product does not insure its accuracy. There are not many many reasons that rod bearings spin. Check the people that make the bearing.

Only good things to say about 440 source from me, 9.20's @ 145 in my 63 Plymouth, belted piss out of it and even split a block but stroker kit still lives. Just ordered some parts from them and 5 days later I had them in Australia.

I'm not saying don't buy their product. Just check it. Rod journals in stroker kits are not plunged ground as stock cranks. They are radius ground, and taper in a journal is easy to get. Thirty five plus years running manual machines and grinders, and you can easily find it!

My last #4 failure was caused by a bad filter...So keep looking, you starved it somehow.

This is just common sense. I doubt that I'm the only one that takes brand new things apart, checks them and cleans them before reassembling for use. Had you bought a crate motor then I'd say "maybe" you'd have a leg to stand on but even then they'd probably say that racing voids any warranty.

You've obviously got an axe to grind - you could just as easily have left their name out of the post. But most people seem to be taking their side, and rightly so.

I don't care how much you pay for parts they have to be checked with the proper tools (not plastic gauge) I paid 2200 dollars for a Callas crank From Dan (Performance Only) years ago that was shipped directly from Indy Cylinder Head. I also ordered bearings from Dan when I placed the order. Dan never touched the crank as it was drop shipped from Indy. Imagine my surprise when I miced the crank and my "brand new" 2200 dollar crank was cut .010 on the rods. Did I send it back? NO because I really needed it and didn't want to deal with Indys crappy service. ALL PARTS MUST BE CHECKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Was not oil starved. Break in was just off mains and other rods. #4 bearing was welded on journal. My guess only, rod was too tight. Had 9 quarts of oil in 7 quart pan and swinging pick-up. Just 2 passes on motor.

So you said you checked all the main and rod bearing clearances with plastic gauge. I can't say it is accurate or not but it is close. I have used it in the past without a problem . I guess the question is: what clearance did you have when you measured on the rods, on the mains?

Could be a lot of things. Even 9 qts in a 7 qt pan will cause problems. If the oil is too high it gets beat to a froth by the crankshaft and then you are feeding the bearings with froth instead of oil.

If you don't check every rod assembly for clearance during assembly then you don't know if they are all correct. The bearings have tolerances as do the crank and the rods.

I'm wondering how many millions of engines are out there that had plastigauge used to check clearances !!! Not everyone can afford or justify the cost of the tools.

And a lot of them run for years too. Trouble is race engine clearances should be opened up some and the proper oil viscosity used. After-market cranks also have a heavy radius instead of an under-cut like stock cranks. Careful attention has to be used and the proper bearings for this application. Lots of guys don't know how to properly "set" the thrust bearing and just throw things together. I'm self taught so I know I've made lots of mistakes over the years and try to continue to learn something new every day. Lots of bad info floating around the internet forums. 40 plus years of engine building for me with 3 engines on my stands right now and another 2 in our race cars and I'm still learning and still buying tools.

That crank should grind out if you go under size on bearings. My buddy ran a .030/.030 crank for years. Finally split a cylinder lol.

Any photos?
How was the side clearances on the rods?

I run a 440Source kit also and I checked all my clearances myself as I build my own engines. Its been in the car running fine since 2011 and still holding good oil pressure. Sorry to hear of your failure. Ron

I have yet to find a set of Source rods that were right after properly cycling the bolts, or a crank that didn't have taper on more than one journal. Rods were always resized before use, and the taper was never outside of factory tolerance but was on the high limit regularly. It's good value stuff even with spending a little to make it "right". It's not "good out of the box".

Save the hassle and order Molnar. I've had one experience with Source parts and it resulted in a broken rod and junk motor.

As stated, i would check/have checked any OOTB machined "tolerances".
I'm running Source rods, but cycled the bolts & had them sized.
I know of Eagles that have had to have the same done.

Not to throw poop into the game but tell the whole story Eric. You bought a used engine that had the CHEAP I beem rods that most guys wouldn't use in a stock rebuild and were discontinued years ago. ALL parts need checked. Lots of good companies out there and I use them all. My old 440source (500 cubic inch) assembly had 275 (8 second) passes on it before I found a crack in the block. A friend is still using that same assembly years later in his street car and zero corrections were needed with the proper bearings.

You are right. Stroker cranks have taper. I know 2 engine builders (one in the Hot Rod Hall of Fame) that will not use certain company's cranks because of taper. A lot of engine builders use surface mic. that are only graduated into thousands, instead of tents. Optical comparators check the radius, t.i.r, and taper. Profile lometer to check finish. Now tell me again how you check crankshaft dimensions? In 1964, I was running a grinder and retired 35 years- running 6 axis cnc machines. I guess that I just have got old.

I was asking about side clearance because that is how I found out the lower rod bearing shell had the bearing locator notch in the wrong place pushing the bearing into the radius of the crank rod journal.

That was good .016 to .018. Crank end play was .008. A friend of mine had .045 for side clearance on a 499. Seams excessive to me, but i'm just set in my ways.

Well now if you checked everything and it speced out, where does that leave you? A spun rod bearing. Lost it's crush.. lack of oil, aerated oil, or over revved, sometimes you get that one [censored] bearing too, detonation (both audible & silent), heck, even a backfire. Lots of things can cause a bearing to spin. I seen Callies cranks do the same. Usually do to the above mentioned.

Who assemble that motor?

Ya'll are getting this all wrong. I had access to any kind of measuring tool that I would have needed. I JUST DID NOT DO IT! I ASSUMED that the complete assembly hand been gone over. It was my fault. I spun #4 and #4 only. All other bearings did not have the break in worn off. The rest of the journals were ok. It did not run out of oil. That rod journal was too tight and I did not find it. One and a half pass later it quit-1/8 mile. Bearing welded to journal, and rod end shattered. Rod next to it looked good. Main above it ok. Nothing in oil galley.

John the rotating assembly was brand new. Even the cheap discontinued rods they rated at 1000hp lol . I guess what I'm saying is at the price of the source stuff it's really no deal compared to K1 or Eagle or Molnar. So keep your options open even on a budget build.

Thanks Eric, My next build will definitely be one of them.

All I can say is... "It happen's" Been down that road..
Bottom Line.... Check it over well.... Oh and one more time...
Keep Building them Engines. OLD FARTS RULE !!!!!

A problem on SB's is the oil rushes by the #4 main so fast that the oil has a problem making the turn & the rods on either side can & have failed. I ain't up on BB's but reportedly they can have a similar but lesser same issue (& their routing as you know is different). I would definitely open up the galley to main passages (Mcandless & others have writeups on this) & consider bypass direct feed the other end of the gallery. Just thinking out loud & I hope it works out (I am considering a 543 'source kit) but at the moment 2K for 100 extra cubes ain't practical right now.

ohio crank stroker kits are good i use them all the time,any one else has on here ?

me too

511ci

On one of my motors oil starvation we blaimed the pick up sucking air, on a 452".

I've built around 12 stroker motors,B and RB, one Hemi, with Ohio Crankshaft CO cranks I bought one of their blem 4.25 stroke B cranks for myself that had a badly bent flywheel flange when I got it They replaced it for no charge with a new one and paid the freight both ways I had bought six other new ones on that order so that may have had some bearing on their decision making
I will buy more parts from them in the future
if your going wild looking for every last HP buy the really good stuff If your going mild with your build buy the mild parts

Well said.